Speaker 1: I'm always always, sir, be careful love.
Speaker 2: Those um books. Let well use your head. They will
Speaker 2: tear you lack a purple talk. Oh no, no, no, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no. Hi. I'm Amanda
Speaker 2: and I'm Rumby.
Speaker 1: Welcome to its lay It.
Speaker 2: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty
Speaker 2: years ago when we were in high school.
Speaker 1: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything
Speaker 1: and everything else under the sun.
Speaker 2: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of It's Layered Podcast. What I Do,
Speaker 2: What I do, What I do? Good?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, somebody we need to find that sound
Speaker 1: I know, asked DJ it kicks or something and just like.
Speaker 2: A salad because apps all the time, honey, it defeats
Speaker 2: the purpose. Anyway. How are you doing, Amanda?
Speaker 3: I'm good, my love.
Speaker 2: How are you? How are you? Yo? Girl? We could
Speaker 2: go on, we could write a novel. I'm doing alright,
Speaker 2: surviving winter monthsA here like it's great, gloomy trying to
Speaker 2: I'm that vitamin d intake and just the little sunshine
Speaker 2: we get.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I envy you guys, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, I love I love European Christmas or like
Speaker 1: I should say more than Hemisphere Christmas.
Speaker 2: With the cold, the snow, that that whole.
Speaker 3: But I love it.
Speaker 1: But to actually live it, it's like, okay, no, I
Speaker 1: like to visit and leave and leave.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be like seeing the build up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the build up is that's what breaks you because
Speaker 2: you see these days. I think at like for for
Speaker 2: thirty now or just before four thirty, it's black, like
Speaker 2: it's dark outside, like pitch black.
Speaker 1: So and meanwhile we're recording now and it's meant to
Speaker 1: be my evening and it's like some obviously, so it's
Speaker 1: still light outside, trying to put a child down when
Speaker 1: it's just like you'd be looking at you like are
Speaker 1: you crazy?
Speaker 3: It's like are you there? There's no winning in life.
Speaker 2: You need to know there's no winning.
Speaker 1: To pick your battles, use your yeah, and speaking about that,
Speaker 1: which is so apt for our episode today, our episode
Speaker 1: on ally ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you define ally ship? So that'st word,
Speaker 2: very big buzz word. I decided to let me use
Speaker 2: the dictionary. Okay, it's dictionary. It okay, So according to
Speaker 2: the Cambridge English Dictionary, it's allyship is the quality or
Speaker 2: practice of helping or supporting other people who are part
Speaker 2: of a group that is treated badly or unfairly, although
Speaker 2: you are not yourself a member of this group. One
Speaker 2: of the most important ways to practice allyship is just
Speaker 2: to listen. I thought that was quite a.
Speaker 3: Again for the people on the back, just to listen.
Speaker 2: Just to listen. One of the most important ways to
Speaker 2: practice allyship is just to listen. So just listening, close
Speaker 2: your mouth and open your ears and listen. Actually, so,
Speaker 2: I think that's a definition that was given and I
Speaker 2: thought it was really I need I say more.
Speaker 1: That's now you've just yeah, I guess that's just nailed it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the only thing in our to
Speaker 1: make it more like less dictionary is just that it's
Speaker 1: obviously come up in the last couple of years. It's
Speaker 1: a concept that's probably always exists, but it's actually now
Speaker 1: got terms and all these things around it, you know,
Speaker 1: and some people do it naturally and semple I've had
Speaker 1: to learn to do it. So I think that's the
Speaker 1: only thing with allyship that is like something that I
Speaker 1: think future from now on and future generations.
Speaker 3: It's just going to be part of living.
Speaker 2: Yes, really yes, because I think for some time there
Speaker 2: was just no awareness or understanding of the need. You know,
Speaker 2: they say that if you don't have the word for
Speaker 2: a term or something you need, it's hard to feel like,
Speaker 2: how can you actually get the support.
Speaker 3: To conceptualize and sexualize?
Speaker 2: Now that we have the vocabulary, it helps and will
Speaker 2: help build stronger forms of allyship and so on and
Speaker 2: so forth. So it's really interesting. So of course a
Speaker 2: man has already spoken about how it's become a topic
Speaker 2: that's come up more and more over the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, after social movements such as Black Lives Matter,
Speaker 2: Stop Asian Hate or advocating for the lgbt QUI plus community,
Speaker 2: as well as we've seen the wars in Gaza and Ukraine. Yo,
Speaker 2: how do allies play a role? Like actually just listing
Speaker 2: those and in the last few years it's right, wild,
Speaker 2: okay wild, But how do allies play a role actually
Speaker 2: in these scenarios and situations?
Speaker 1: I think the way you first described it, that is
Speaker 1: like rallying and advocating for a group of people that
Speaker 1: you're not a part of, yes, who have been marginalized
Speaker 1: essentially right, So all those social movements, I mean that
Speaker 1: you've mentioned the wars happening that you've mentioned, We're obviously
Speaker 1: not there. I'm obviously not of Asian descent all those things.
Speaker 2: Hence we need to show up, right.
Speaker 1: That's that's the that's the I think it was Rihanna
Speaker 1: who said, no, tell all your white friends pull up pully,
Speaker 1: want to put they want to have dinner with you
Speaker 1: and and love your culture, blah blah blah, talk about it.
Speaker 1: And I think that is how allies play a role,
Speaker 1: Like not only are we listening intently, we're now also
Speaker 1: educating ourselves on the right stuff. And that's now we're
Speaker 1: also taking action as well, Like then what And I
Speaker 1: feel like it's so it's a tricky thing social media
Speaker 1: because like, in some ways people want to know where
Speaker 1: you stand, where you do this, But I feel like
Speaker 1: it's such a personal role or maybe in my life
Speaker 1: I've had to like break it down to day to
Speaker 1: day things, like are they moments when I can be
Speaker 1: an ally in the situation for sure?
Speaker 2: I don't know for sure. It's definitely tricky And I
Speaker 2: think you hit the nail on the head when you
Speaker 2: say that educate yourself. I think during Black Lives Matter,
Speaker 2: for us as black people, it was obviously quite It
Speaker 2: affected us a lot. Yes, we know we're not black
Speaker 2: American because some people brought that up. You're not you
Speaker 2: know it's happening in America. But it's like, we know
Speaker 2: what it means to be black. If you're black, you're black,
Speaker 2: you're black. If you're black here, you're black there, you're
Speaker 2: black everywhere. I'm sorry, there's no sort of differentiation. And
Speaker 2: when people are like, but why and wanting you to
Speaker 2: explain all these things, and it actually gets exhausting for
Speaker 2: the person in that community experiencing that. So that the
Speaker 2: Asian who's experiencing Asian hate, people in the lgbtq I
Speaker 2: A plus community who are being marginalized, they're tired of
Speaker 2: having to explain how they're being killed off, how in
Speaker 2: Uganda it's illegal, and you know they are afraid of
Speaker 2: their lives. Do you understand what I'm saying? Definitely, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with and trying to persist it internally for
Speaker 2: myself and now you want me to break it down
Speaker 2: for you. And usually people who ask that come across
Speaker 2: with an ignorant mindset, like they're not wanting it's just like, oh,
Speaker 2: but why is it an issue? You know, and it's
Speaker 2: very why is it a problem? Why is it a problem? Yes?
Speaker 1: And I think also in this year of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four plus we got the internet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like what why are you asking me?
Speaker 1: Like there's people who've done research articles on this, you
Speaker 1: can explain the whole history, reliable resources you can use
Speaker 1: to find out the history of what's going on. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think like even like and try
Speaker 1: to think of even in Australia now with what's happening
Speaker 1: in Gaza, and it's like Palestine Israel, which side and
Speaker 1: then you find out that the history on both ends
Speaker 1: is so layered, So okay, but let's not even But
Speaker 1: then there's also that whole thing with ceasefire, Like as
Speaker 1: much as the history is there and whoever thinks they
Speaker 1: write things, they're right, But at the same time, it's
Speaker 1: like you there's people dying who are.
Speaker 3: Innocently part of this as well.
Speaker 1: So it's like all these things where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you need to just really find an independent resource we
Speaker 1: can really go through everything, and you still have to
Speaker 1: use your judgment to realize, Okay, what am I what's next?
Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of times people just
Speaker 1: want to be told like this is right, this is wrong, yes,
Speaker 1: And I think allyship really pushes you to be like, no,
Speaker 1: it's your own journey, like you think, what do you
Speaker 1: think sounds right?
Speaker 2: You know for sure? For sure? I completely agree. And
Speaker 2: part of it too, and I don't know, maybe we'll
Speaker 2: go into this later, but I think part of it
Speaker 2: too is taking a step back from what you're seeing
Speaker 2: on social media and all the buzzwords and this person
Speaker 2: saying you have to do you really need to take
Speaker 2: a step back from you know, other opinion and take
Speaker 2: a moment to formulate your own informed yeah, keyword informed opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also give yourself space to say I don't know.
Speaker 1: So I feel like with social media, especially when something happens,
Speaker 1: people are so quick to post on their stories or whatever,
Speaker 1: whichever side they support or don't support or and yeah,
Speaker 1: in one way, that's great, but it's like, okay, but
Speaker 1: have you processed this enough to come from a space
Speaker 1: where you knew nothing about this to now enough for
Speaker 1: you to have such a strong stance whatever side yes,
Speaker 1: So I think that's just one makes it tough because like,
Speaker 1: do you actually know exactly? Yeah, yeah, any situations that
Speaker 1: you feel allies make things worse.
Speaker 2: Oh, so many, so many. I think allies can make
Speaker 2: it worse one when their opinion, well, they develop an
Speaker 2: opinion shaped with misinformation. Absolutely, I think just in general
Speaker 2: as humans, we cause problems when you are misinformed. I
Speaker 2: think too when sometimes aggression you know or I don't know,
Speaker 2: causing beef or wanting to fight. Yes, of course we
Speaker 2: appreciate you stuff for us and supporting us, but sometimes
Speaker 2: the message doesn't get across. I'll give you this example.
Speaker 2: You know, we all heard about all lives matter, you know,
Speaker 2: when people that that conversation, and the issue with that is,
Speaker 2: you know, people are saying, yes, but we all matter,
Speaker 2: and it's like putting yourself in the shoes of the
Speaker 2: one being suffering someone who's having a hard time, and saying,
Speaker 2: but also me trying to put yourself here. Yes, you
Speaker 2: don't even need to you don't need to be in
Speaker 2: the equation. It's about empathy. What you need to understand
Speaker 2: is allyship is about empathy. I may not understand fully,
Speaker 2: I may not have experienced anything similar to this. However,
Speaker 2: I'm here for you. What can I do? Not you
Speaker 2: assuming what you can do? I e. Being aggressive people
Speaker 2: are going during the protests and causing scenes or creating chaos,
Speaker 2: or do you understand what I'm saying. There's so many
Speaker 2: way where you make it about yourself. I think the
Speaker 2: key thing is when people make it about themselves. We
Speaker 2: the progression that you need. What an ally should be
Speaker 2: doing is saying, you know, in certain rooms, when you're
Speaker 2: at dinner with similar people who may not understand what
Speaker 2: exactly is happening in gaza or so on and so forth,
Speaker 2: you can be the person who says, actually, you know
Speaker 2: the reason why X y Z is because ABC? Do
Speaker 2: you undersund like giving them the information so that me,
Speaker 2: as the one who's marginalized or suffering, doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be like, oh but you know this. This this is
Speaker 2: easier people. It's more palatable when it comes from someone
Speaker 2: who looks like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And also to offer different perspectives. I find a lot
Speaker 1: of times in these rooms they're trying to make its
Speaker 1: trivialize it right, like ah.
Speaker 3: Why are they even stressing about that?
Speaker 1: Like you know, and it's like have you ever folt,
Speaker 1: how we feel if this and that happened to you.
Speaker 3: No, so.
Speaker 1: You know, and I feel like a lot of times,
Speaker 1: especially here with immigration issues, you know, you got people
Speaker 1: who there's this whole theory of your jumping the queue,
Speaker 1: like they call them boat people, people who come on
Speaker 1: a boat as opposed to like applying from a detention
Speaker 1: center overseas.
Speaker 3: Or for asylum or whatever.
Speaker 1: Okay, obviously, once you come over on a boat, you're
Speaker 1: already here. So now that you have to like pretty
Speaker 1: much something people yeah, see it as a fast track
Speaker 1: to get in, and then there's this whole thing about it,
Speaker 1: like people were very opinionated about it.
Speaker 3: But it's like have you ever thought how desperate.
Speaker 1: One must be to get a little boat, right, to
Speaker 1: like seek a better life? And like, yes, of course
Speaker 1: the system is broken, we already know that, but it's
Speaker 1: like such a wide up. And I think that's where
Speaker 1: the word empathy, as you said, comes in, because it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: don't make it such such a broad thing. That's why
Speaker 1: I think I think allyship needs to be very singular.
Speaker 2: And you you.
Speaker 1: Decide do you think that sounds right yes or not?
Speaker 1: And what do you do about it? How are you listening,
Speaker 1: how are you providing a voice if you can? Yes,
Speaker 1: and for everything as well.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, sometimes you need to know when
Speaker 2: you don't need to say anything. It's like I cannot
Speaker 2: I don't have the information, I don't have the ability
Speaker 2: because there are a lot of causes to if I
Speaker 2: and they stay coming up and speaking to a point
Speaker 2: actually about do you know what it's like to have
Speaker 2: to hop on a boat to make your way to
Speaker 2: another country to seek asylum? If anyone has not yet,
Speaker 2: you should watch The Swimmers on Netflix. That film will
Speaker 2: give you a great sort of understanding of what it
Speaker 2: means for all these immigrants who are escaping wars and
Speaker 2: you know, difficulties back home, even in Europe. You know,
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of talk about illegal immigration, which
Speaker 2: is a whole other but when you're just seeing it
Speaker 2: as with humanity in your heart, it changes how your
Speaker 2: perspective on how how things done and how hard it
Speaker 2: must be. Brutal, Yes, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: And we already know that living in the sport, but
Speaker 1: there's another level.
Speaker 2: It's another level, yeah, another anyway, So watch that if
Speaker 2: you haven't. But do you think you're a strong. Ally,
Speaker 2: this is.
Speaker 1: A quot.
Speaker 2: Because I don't know.
Speaker 1: I literally as you said that to you girl, you
Speaker 1: put me on the chopping blog. Yeah, it's literally, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I would like to think I am. I
Speaker 1: would like to think I am learning to become become one.
Speaker 1: I would like to think that. One thing I definitely
Speaker 1: know that came out of Black Lives Matter for me
Speaker 1: personally was that if you're silent, you're complicit, not silent
Speaker 1: as in you're listening. Listening silence is different because that's
Speaker 1: when you're like educating yourself. But like when something happens
Speaker 1: and you have the power or the space to speak
Speaker 1: up and you don't because you're like too high to
Speaker 1: awkward in most cases, then we are also complicit because
Speaker 1: your silence makes it seem like it's okay and that
Speaker 1: person should be added. So I think I have learned
Speaker 1: that my voice, even if it's a quiet, meek voice,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's important as well, right, because a lot
Speaker 1: of times people will see things and it's like and
Speaker 1: when someone speaks up, everyone's yeah, like if I'm thinking
Speaker 1: the same thing.
Speaker 2: Because we are human, we do all.
Speaker 1: Feel the same things, and like most times and then
Speaker 1: like I feel like I've learned that and I think
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm realizing that allyship is a journey and
Speaker 1: it's not said and done like Okay, I was an ally,
Speaker 1: it stop Asian hate, I'm done.
Speaker 2: It's back.
Speaker 1: Like it's like there's so many things that we need
Speaker 1: to I don't know, human levels usually actually daily that
Speaker 1: we need to be calling things out.
Speaker 2: And I was going to ask you to ask you
Speaker 2: do you think it's only about the posting? Hey, you
Speaker 2: guys need to know that x y Z is is
Speaker 2: that if you don't post, you're not an ally or
Speaker 2: if you don't say hey you guys, do you understand
Speaker 2: like on a public sade?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know what, This is a tricky
Speaker 1: one because I do think when you have a huge platform,
Speaker 1: your voice matters. So like you know, you see on
Speaker 1: a KIMK and you know, they post pretty quickly when
Speaker 1: things happen because they almost have to in a way,
Speaker 1: they have to because they have to show that. And
Speaker 1: also and that's yeah, if there's such a word, because
Speaker 1: it's like okay, then now you start to think, Okay,
Speaker 1: what are you actually standing for?
Speaker 3: Study you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if they don't say anything,
Speaker 1: it's such a problem. So it's like I don't envy celebrities,
Speaker 1: so my my, in my everyday life. I don't think
Speaker 1: you're forced to do anything that you're not that's not
Speaker 1: coming from the heart, you know. I think you have
Speaker 1: to be honest with yourself and honest the people are
Speaker 1: trying to uphold and uplift in that moment. It's not
Speaker 1: about you, as you said, so why and if you
Speaker 1: feel the urge to to obviously talk about it and
Speaker 1: to help and to post, and you have the correct resources,
Speaker 1: then yeah, reliable resources, then why not. But if you're
Speaker 1: still in a moment of learning, a moment of education,
Speaker 1: then maybe premature to really.
Speaker 2: So it's like it's so dependent. What do you think
Speaker 2: I think. I think it is very dependent. And I
Speaker 2: think sometimes the strong form of allyship is in the
Speaker 2: closed within closed doors, and I've seen it personally in
Speaker 2: rooms where people have these opinions and then to be
Speaker 2: able to actually use your voice and say, actually, I
Speaker 2: don't think that's so correct, or actually it's actually harder
Speaker 2: than just posting that on So I will tell yeah,
Speaker 2: for free, I will tell you this. It is so
Speaker 2: much harder to be in a room where you have
Speaker 2: people who probably look like you or believe the same
Speaker 2: same values, that have the same values that you do,
Speaker 2: and they bring up something that may seem sort of
Speaker 2: is left fields, especially if you consider yourself an ally
Speaker 2: and having to say no, actually, I don't think that's correct,
Speaker 2: or have you ever considered that? So there's actually sometimes
Speaker 2: more power of influence in those spaces. So I just
Speaker 2: want people to know that it's not always about Yes.
Speaker 2: Of course, if you have a platform and can share,
Speaker 2: do so. Sometimes I think we are scared to share
Speaker 2: because we don't know. There's a lot of information going around.
Speaker 2: Am I sharing the right thing in the right way,
Speaker 2: especially when a buzzy topic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have time to educate a buzzy topic
Speaker 1: you might not know lots about exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's why sometimes it's good to take a step back,
Speaker 2: take a moment, to do what you need to do
Speaker 2: to figure out.
Speaker 1: That's just like that Empire dude, which do you remember
Speaker 1: the sorry story time the Empire guy?
Speaker 3: I forget what just small letter?
Speaker 1: I think, oh, yes, all the celebrities were like he
Speaker 1: was attacked.
Speaker 2: I know, Jersey, he's innocent.
Speaker 1: Jersey's in the Nigerian dudes were like a man you
Speaker 1: were paid to paid those posts of support because the
Speaker 1: initial thing was he had been it was a hate
Speaker 1: crime and he had been attacked. And I think the
Speaker 1: thing was stand with Jesse. So it's like that's the
Speaker 1: thing as well with posting, because you got both talk
Speaker 1: quick to far stored out.
Speaker 2: So edumate yourself. You gotta edumacate yourself to Speaking of edumacation,
Speaker 2: you know when we talk about the right resources, Sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm really digressing. It's just because what are the right resources?
Speaker 2: Because we recently had this conversation We're talking about the
Speaker 2: war and the conflict in Gaza, and we're like, okay,
Speaker 2: what are the informed resources, especially for things like war,
Speaker 2: because war is genders on every side. Every side, someone
Speaker 2: will tell you what they want you and put it
Speaker 2: in a way you want to hear. Will they want
Speaker 2: you to hear it, and someone else will come and
Speaker 2: give it to you in a way that you want
Speaker 2: to hear it. It's personal disclaiment. I want to say,
Speaker 2: I get very triggered by reading the news. I'm very
Speaker 2: all the time. It's a very hard thing for me
Speaker 2: to do. I typically will be like, Okay, this keeps
Speaker 2: coming up, and then headlines and then eventually I'll be like,
Speaker 2: let me do my research. But I'm not someone who's
Speaker 2: like quick fast, like yeah, let's hear what's more So,
Speaker 2: it's very triggering. So if you're someone who feels like
Speaker 2: I have a very difficult time with reading the news
Speaker 2: in general.
Speaker 1: The empathy level was on one hundred room big, I
Speaker 1: feel it's hard. It's tough as well, because let's not
Speaker 1: to get even deeper into it, let's not lie that
Speaker 1: the media is media is controlled by certain entities. So
Speaker 1: when you're even if you say I'm going to watch
Speaker 1: CNN or BBC, somebody's paying them checks march and they
Speaker 1: have a certain they have a certain image American Well yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's like I remember, even for Zimbabwe, there was
Speaker 1: a time when I had to like grow a lot
Speaker 1: of respect for our Jazerra because it felt like when
Speaker 1: they reported our news about Zimbabwe, it was like the
Speaker 1: real thing that's going on, and they will show you
Speaker 1: both sides and literally decide, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: where As like BBC was doing it, you ain't know Gabi.
Speaker 3: Was in trouble, like it was just gab is the
Speaker 3: worst thing ever?
Speaker 1: There was no nuance to it, Yes, because obviously all
Speaker 1: the white farmers are being kicked out, so BBC just
Speaker 1: you know, So it's like you really have to.
Speaker 2: I think that's where you have to practice your coming sense.
Speaker 2: And maybe this is where this common sense is not
Speaker 2: so common, but.
Speaker 1: Yes it's not. And I think that's where discussions play
Speaker 1: a pivotal role. Okay, this is what the media is saying,
Speaker 1: is what that outlet is saying. But like you know,
Speaker 1: can I hear from someone on the ground or can
Speaker 1: I what more can I find out about this situation?
Speaker 1: And you just have to go Sometimes you just have to.
Speaker 1: As you said before, you don't have to say anything.
Speaker 1: You can just be absorbing, absorbing and.
Speaker 3: Just say no.
Speaker 1: Look again, I'm in a space of I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm still taking it all in because yeah, how do
Speaker 1: you trust?
Speaker 2: How do you honestly? And also in your media outlets,
Speaker 2: it's also personalities, media personalities and all that. Be careful.
Speaker 2: It's hard. There's no there's no answer. Basically, the answer
Speaker 2: to that question is there's you need to forget figure
Speaker 2: it out, figure it out, apply your is that your
Speaker 2: brain is that what theta.
Speaker 3: Yes, use your.
Speaker 2: Exactly you know this.
Speaker 3: So what allieship is?
Speaker 1: There's action we spoke a there's listening, there's learning, and
Speaker 1: then there's yielding. So I think yielding is more to
Speaker 1: do with oh, okay, maybe I don't quite know as
Speaker 1: much on this topic, or okay, I need to get
Speaker 1: back on that, or you know, so, how do you
Speaker 1: think we can adopt each of these to become better allies?
Speaker 2: It's a really good, uh, really good question. And I
Speaker 2: think for me, action we've spoken about already quite a bit,
Speaker 2: whether we're learning when to speak up and again I
Speaker 2: will reiterate sometimes speaking up is in those uncomfortable space.
Speaker 2: I think I've had to do this too many times.
Speaker 2: That's why it's like I'm just like, yeah, are you
Speaker 2: doing it? But speaking up? Listening, I think it's as
Speaker 2: we saw from the Cambridge Dictionary, definition being one of
Speaker 2: the most important parts and listening with our prejudgment prejudice
Speaker 2: to listen for what it is and hear that person's
Speaker 2: point of view and then apply your medulla oblongata to
Speaker 2: make a you know, informed, you know decision we spoke about,
Speaker 2: which is reading multiple resources. Also, history is a great
Speaker 2: way to learn beyond just like the news saying this
Speaker 2: is what's happened is well, but if you can go
Speaker 2: back to the history of that culture, of those people
Speaker 2: of that country or that area, it's also very informative
Speaker 2: because it's like it gives you a greater perspective like, oh,
Speaker 2: we've been done, We've done been dealing with this, you know,
Speaker 2: even history in the sense for example, Biblical history with
Speaker 2: the issue of Gaza, with the issue like there's so
Speaker 2: many beyond just what is current affairs looking back and
Speaker 2: then yielding. I think A Manda said did so well
Speaker 2: when she said, sometimes you have to be like, you know, here,
Speaker 2: I don't have enough for me to form an opinion
Speaker 2: that is capable of moving things forward positively in some
Speaker 2: positive direction. You know, maybe I need to take a
Speaker 2: step back and just say I don't know. I'm here
Speaker 2: for you to listen. And also yielding could be how
Speaker 2: can I help you in terms of removing self and
Speaker 2: saying yes, I must tell them how to do this?
Speaker 2: How what do you need? How do you need me
Speaker 2: to stand up for you and support you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's so funny you say that because I remember,
Speaker 1: like another story it was just becoming story time.
Speaker 2: She just have done this episode a story time.
Speaker 1: But like, like literally, I remember we were hiring a
Speaker 1: lady of African descent. I'm not gonna, in fact Nigerian.
Speaker 1: Why am I gonna actually like, I'm just gonna say it,
Speaker 1: just a Nigerian. And then we have some American ladies
Speaker 1: at our work as well, and one of them is Colombian.
Speaker 1: So like, the accents are coming in thick and fast
Speaker 1: from all over the world, right, and like our hi
Speaker 1: manager after interviewing her because I don't quite understand her,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, but you understand the quity downstairs.
Speaker 2: We's Columbian.
Speaker 1: Then you know looks, you know, because Colombians are known
Speaker 1: to be really good looking as united so many times.
Speaker 1: So like but it's just like that, like sometimes even
Speaker 1: the ally ship is in showing someone else their own prettages. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, we can't really use accents as like a
Speaker 1: way to hire or fire someone one two if you
Speaker 1: accept this person with this accent, that one with an
Speaker 1: accent like open the doors, you know, just because the
Speaker 1: other one the quity ptuity doesn't mean that, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like I find a lot of times I've
Speaker 1: had to have those where it's not like I guess
Speaker 1: it's like calling out right because it's like, hmm, but
Speaker 1: why can you explain your logic? Like because if he
Speaker 1: had said, look, I don't do accents like Aussie's and
Speaker 1: our workplace is full of Aussi's, then maybe I would
Speaker 1: have been like, this is really bad, but I'm you
Speaker 1: surround you surrounded yourself in that world. But no, you're
Speaker 1: fine tochchat with Columbia but not Miss Nigeria up.
Speaker 3: Stop correct, yeah.
Speaker 2: Come correct? And also calling out isn't always like be
Speaker 2: like hey, you can't do this, just like why but why?
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's like get them.
Speaker 3: Thinking understand Miss Columbia.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I just ask her to repeat herself. So if
Speaker 1: you don't understand Miss Nigeria, just ask Miss Nigeria to
Speaker 1: repeat herself.
Speaker 2: And it's so crazy for me because like sometimes you
Speaker 2: listen even Aussie accents, I must say, like sometimes I'll
Speaker 2: be like what are they saying like and then it's
Speaker 2: like I'm like is it English? And I'm like, yes,
Speaker 2: it's English, then having to dissect. So here's the here's
Speaker 2: the fun part. Guys.
Speaker 1: It's not only not only one way, right, we also
Speaker 1: don't understand you.
Speaker 2: I'll never anyway. Yeah, we digress, we digress. Why do
Speaker 2: you think it has become of great importance to have
Speaker 2: strong allies?
Speaker 1: I think because we've been quiet, quiet for too long.
Speaker 1: People have been quiet for too long, suffering for too long,
Speaker 1: you know. I know, on a personal note, when Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter happened, my dad was like.
Speaker 2: Ah, but and did you offer season?
Speaker 3: So like get in their spaces? So what.
Speaker 1: Like like like obviously.
Speaker 2: Going to be macro microaggression.
Speaker 1: Obviously they're going to touch your hair, Like what do
Speaker 1: you expect you are in their office, in.
Speaker 3: Their building, you know, come back home? You know what
Speaker 3: I mean that mentality, And like.
Speaker 1: He just realized that, Okay, obviously for a parents' generation
Speaker 1: that had bigger problems like yeah, colonialism, to fight in
Speaker 1: the Yeah, some of our I mean it was relatives
Speaker 1: were probably also actually in the actual warfare war zones.
Speaker 1: So they're not gonna think microagreation is a path, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So it's like one of those
Speaker 1: things where you start to think, Okay, but just because
Speaker 1: it wasn't as quote unquote severe as you might think
Speaker 1: for you comparing to you, doesn't mean it's not as
Speaker 1: equally important. Yes, so I think it's it's and it
Speaker 1: just showed me I actually really educated. But like, no,
Speaker 1: the world is more global now and we people shouldn't
Speaker 1: have to I should be able to call the cops
Speaker 1: and not have them think not but have them want
Speaker 1: to arrest me based on my skin color.
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 1: I should feel safe with the cops. That's everyone should,
Speaker 1: but everyone has a right to. So I think it's
Speaker 1: just one of those things where you just realize that
Speaker 1: times are changing, people are changing, and why not be
Speaker 1: more inclusive for sure? Why not stand up for what
Speaker 1: is right, what is humane? So I think that's why
Speaker 1: it's important to have strong allies totally.
Speaker 2: And I also think if you know better, you got
Speaker 2: to do better. And we just happen to know more
Speaker 2: that part, So we got to know better and we
Speaker 2: got to do better. Back in the day, you could
Speaker 2: excuse it to oh, the newspapers don't report it or
Speaker 2: they don't tell us enough about this, so I don't
Speaker 2: have the right information about this. Ah so oh well,
Speaker 2: but even then, let me tell you, people still protested
Speaker 2: injustices things like a put daid. They protested in other
Speaker 2: parts of the world. So it's not like allyship is
Speaker 2: something completely new. It's just we know more. So in
Speaker 2: knowing more, you hope we know better. Of course we
Speaker 2: have false effake news and all that, but hopefully you'll do.
Speaker 4: Better, that's yeah.
Speaker 1: And like why not And even on a personal level,
Speaker 1: you know, we can't imagine lize people because of their
Speaker 1: sexual preference, because of sexual orientation, because of the like
Speaker 1: it seems so like why.
Speaker 2: What has that got to do with true? Like, that's
Speaker 2: the thing. I mean, this is what I always say.
Speaker 2: It's like being an ally. Sometimes something doesn't affect you,
Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with you. It's not part
Speaker 2: of you. Sure, but if someone that is part of
Speaker 2: their realm, and that's how they just just let people live.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know how to explain it,
Speaker 2: Like let people imagine you. Let's say you love football
Speaker 2: and someone comes to you and it's like football is trash,
Speaker 2: like and anyone who watches football, we're gonna, you know,
Speaker 2: knock off, like you just be like, but it's not
Speaker 2: a fake. Let me watch my football in peace. That's
Speaker 2: what that's all people want. That's what they just want
Speaker 2: to watch.
Speaker 1: It basic, right, Like Yeah, why can't I am I
Speaker 1: right to like what sport I like or to.
Speaker 2: Live without fear of being killed. I don't know exactly,
Speaker 2: I'm just putting it out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like sometimes when you dig deeper,
Speaker 1: it's like, are you finding this behavior threatening?
Speaker 3: Is there some stuff we need to work on there?
Speaker 3: Because why?
Speaker 2: Why trigger?
Speaker 3: Why do you?
Speaker 2: Why was so triggered? Why are you so triggered?
Speaker 3: Have you been living in the closets? And like why?
Speaker 3: I love your life?
Speaker 2: Food?
Speaker 3: Where do you go boo and do what you need
Speaker 3: to do? Like, no one's going to judge you.
Speaker 1: But I think it's like a lot of times, And
Speaker 1: obviously religion plays a huge role because then everyone and
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure a lot of the stuff happening
Speaker 1: in Gaza as well.
Speaker 2: Steeped in religion steeped.
Speaker 1: So it's like all these things that people just have
Speaker 1: this mentality of I'm right, you're wrong, and it's like why.
Speaker 2: And I've been reading I've been reading The Power of
Speaker 2: Now by ear Toll that he was talking about how
Speaker 2: one of the biggest issues of the ego. He talks
Speaker 2: about ego a lot in his book, and the biggest
Speaker 2: issue of ego is that need to be right and
Speaker 2: the inability of hearing someone else's perspective which may be
Speaker 2: different to your own, and just being like, okay, you fail.
Speaker 2: As humans too, we fail. It's always I want you
Speaker 2: to know that I was right. The way I see
Speaker 2: the world is right, and the way I do things
Speaker 2: is right, and everyone should do it. It's like sometimes
Speaker 2: it's okay, just like, wow, that's such an interesting person.
Speaker 2: I literally have conversations with people and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: that's such an interesting take. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Most of the times it doesn't even have to affect
Speaker 1: your own takes. It's just like, oh it's interesting, yes,
Speaker 1: move on, child like, but people really won't take it,
Speaker 1: like to task if you don't agree.
Speaker 2: Also, that energy of carrying that, it's like it's too much.
Speaker 2: There's a lot in life. We all have a lot
Speaker 2: going on. You don't need to carry that, you know.
Speaker 2: So So for me, that's.
Speaker 1: Like what was that book like the subtle art of
Speaker 1: giving fivefucks to give today?
Speaker 3: I can't be giving them to you. Thanks, So why
Speaker 3: are you forcing me?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Let us move on?
Speaker 3: But I think it's just yeah, you're right, it is ego.
Speaker 1: People just want to know that what they do is righteous,
Speaker 1: good and the better person, blah blah blah, without actually
Speaker 1: just thinking it's okay for you.
Speaker 2: To live and live well doing your own thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fine. We don't have to go back and
Speaker 1: forth about this. It's not that. It's not that pressing,
Speaker 1: like you're making it pressing. You know, if there's something
Speaker 1: you could change around the concept of allyship, though, what
Speaker 1: would it be.
Speaker 2: I would make it mandatory for people to read multiple
Speaker 2: resources on opposing ends of the spectrum to form an
Speaker 2: opinion first before they start shooting their words out and
Speaker 2: making arguing with people on the internet. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's changing any and that's what we shouldn't do.
Speaker 2: No fair enough.
Speaker 1: But in new educating yourself, you actually realize that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of nuance with a lot of these things.
Speaker 1: There's some stuff that's to me black and white, like
Speaker 1: like especially with LGBTQIA rights, it's like, okay, no, let
Speaker 1: them live, it's fine, love we want to love me.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what is that we need?
Speaker 3: Then there's some.
Speaker 1: Stuff obviously with the wars and you know, that might
Speaker 1: have a bit more nuance. Then there's some stuff like
Speaker 1: with Ukraine, where you're like, but why are you coming
Speaker 1: to someone else's sundary?
Speaker 3: Like you know, there's like there's.
Speaker 1: Some stuff that's just so obvious, so obviously you have
Speaker 1: to practice where where it lands and where it doesn't.
Speaker 1: But I think for me a lot, I would love
Speaker 1: to change the whole performative part of allies. Yes, like
Speaker 1: oh I donated, Oh I did this, and it's like okay, yeah, fine,
Speaker 1: or you post your receipts because people want to see
Speaker 1: them receipts.
Speaker 2: But it's like, okay, but what now? What after?
Speaker 1: Like I think with and then we keep resorting back
Speaker 1: to black lives no matter because I guess that one
Speaker 1: was on a personal level when it comes to allyeship.
Speaker 2: But it's like people really were like, oh yeah, I'm donating.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, okay, now it's been five years later,
Speaker 1: three years later, whatever, what have you done? Have you
Speaker 1: given someone of color a platform? You know, if you
Speaker 1: have one, have you you know? Have you done I've
Speaker 1: actually on a personal level, change your circle. I think
Speaker 1: there's a picture someone shared was making the runs on
Speaker 1: the internet. Some celebrity was having like I think tea
Speaker 1: or something in the Hamptons and the whole table was
Speaker 1: full of like, well, these white actors, white writers, white
Speaker 1: and it's like this is what Hollywood looks like. These
Speaker 1: were the decisions are getting made. This is where you
Speaker 1: know things are moving, and there's no body of color,
Speaker 1: Like we're not even I'm not even talking black, I'm talking.
Speaker 3: In Hispanic age like it is. White is right like,
Speaker 3: and there's nothing else.
Speaker 1: So it was like one of those things where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so clearly in these rooms, as Ruby spoke about before,
Speaker 1: there is no one to represent someone who's another There's
Speaker 1: literally no one. You're getting people deciding what we wear,
Speaker 1: what we do, what we watch, who are not involved
Speaker 1: and what we wear, what we do, what we watch.
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, I know nothing about it. Just
Speaker 1: want to look at the dollar sign, you know, at
Speaker 1: the end of everything. And I think it's like, that's
Speaker 1: so jarring to me that we're just so performative heir
Speaker 1: diversity inclusion all these teams here, let's do this DEI
Speaker 1: blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: But it's like, Okay, what does that actually mean?
Speaker 1: And look like, who have you hired in a top
Speaker 1: executive position, who's of color, who's well deserving by the way,
Speaker 1: we're not just saying just chucking it.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people out there.
Speaker 1: Have you've done your research, you know, and like, I
Speaker 1: think that's why a lot of people, like even with
Speaker 1: fashion like Edward Nifel pushing British Vogue and all these
Speaker 1: black places you'll see because you can do this.
Speaker 2: Yes, Dave, it's a little bit.
Speaker 1: Harder because you've always used that same photographer for years,
Speaker 1: but like diversify it's okay.
Speaker 2: Yep, totally agree, one hundred percent. I think what it
Speaker 2: is it's it's work, Yeah, exactly. Not everyone is willing
Speaker 2: and ready to do the work or take on the work,
Speaker 2: so hey, yeah.
Speaker 1: And also people don't the ego, don't want to share,
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 3: So it's also like, ah, that's.
Speaker 1: Why why should I have to I thought I thought
Speaker 1: tooth and nail to get here. Meanwhile, it's like inheritance.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's another story for another day. But it's like, oh, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: so why would I Why would I share my space
Speaker 1: with anybody? Why would I give a voice to anyone
Speaker 1: else when I'm enjoying the fruits of my labor?
Speaker 2: Totally So Mommy, Mommy and Daddy's labor anyway as women
Speaker 2: and to bring it a bit closer to home for
Speaker 2: ourselves as women, specifically black zimbabwe And women, that is,
Speaker 2: how do men play a role in being good allies?
Speaker 2: M it's real clubs.
Speaker 1: The way we've talked about this, the way we have
Speaker 1: chattered about this girl, especially when you go back to
Speaker 1: zoom and you're with your habby there or your brother
Speaker 1: there and you're like, I know, when you're overseas you
Speaker 1: wash these dishes? Why anting like you can't see them
Speaker 1: dishes now? And the only way in these with patriarchy especially,
Speaker 1: the only way things would change is if people in
Speaker 1: the patriarchal society call out these changes. Of course, women
Speaker 1: also uphold the patriarchy. That's not like, but it also
Speaker 1: takes a man to be like.
Speaker 2: It's too much. Yeah, So, Amanas, you've definitely touched on
Speaker 2: one of the issues we face as Zimbabwean women, specifically
Speaker 2: black women. Patriarchy is a huge thing. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of we've had in an episode around abuse. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of that. There's class and status and all these things,
Speaker 2: so much financial emotional, like there's just so I'm losing
Speaker 2: the words. I'm just telling you so for those who
Speaker 2: don't know what issues are being faced by black women,
Speaker 2: and we obviously are speaking specifically as black women because
Speaker 2: we are black women and we are from Zabwe, those
Speaker 2: there are a lot of issues, and I think it's
Speaker 2: the silence, the silence of men in these scenarios and
Speaker 2: situations where women are suffering. Do you know I didn't
Speaker 2: actually realize what allyship was really in terms of a
Speaker 2: man helped or signing up for You went home for
Speaker 2: the first time after getting married in March April, and
Speaker 2: we love these story times. By the way, we had
Speaker 2: we had a brier barbecue for for my parents. Throw
Speaker 2: us a barbecue, and my husband and I to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you guys are here, so family can come see you
Speaker 2: since the wedding, so on and so forth. And of
Speaker 2: course in our culture, who's going to be doing the cooking?
Speaker 2: Me as the guest is the one? Yeah, both thinker,
Speaker 2: so you do the work, Oh the heck, and I'm there.
Speaker 2: And then when it's time to serve, my mom was like, oh, sir,
Speaker 2: for your husband, you guys surf first, be surved for
Speaker 2: your husband, because you know that's how it's done there.
Speaker 2: And then my husband was like, no, I can come
Speaker 2: the dish for myself totally. And the whole time when
Speaker 2: you saw me up and down, he was like stressed
Speaker 2: because he was stressful. He was supposed to sit with
Speaker 2: family and engage them in conversation, and I was, you know,
Speaker 2: running around and he just kept seeing me and he's like,
Speaker 2: are you okay? Do you need anything? And I was like,
Speaker 2: because we know what our society is, and just for
Speaker 2: him to say, no, I will serve myself. The wood's here,
Speaker 2: it's easy again. That was just him saying like I
Speaker 2: don't need you to labor even more for me, which
Speaker 2: was something I appreciated, you know, him even saying that
Speaker 2: in front of my parents. It's a big thing with
Speaker 2: family there. Then I had a cousin whose wife had
Speaker 2: a baby. She's taking care of this baby. He's younger
Speaker 2: than me, by the way, and then he's like, go
Speaker 2: dish for me to his wife. So I'm looking at
Speaker 2: him like this is a this is a free for
Speaker 2: all buffet, and he's like, no, that's why we got married, right,
Speaker 2: And not only was she requested so because she came
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh no, but like he can
Speaker 2: time help himself, like the table's ready, Like it's not.
Speaker 3: That everything's there, everything is.
Speaker 2: Everything is set, and then she's like, oh no. I
Speaker 2: was told no to sir go and asked like, how
Speaker 2: can you make him? You know, obviously you have to
Speaker 2: be like not too like intense, but it's like, how
Speaker 2: can you make yourself? You know, she's been with the
Speaker 2: baby all day and he's just like, oh, that's why
Speaker 2: we got married. And I was like, not only dishing
Speaker 2: for her husband, she had a dish for her husband's brother,
Speaker 2: younger brother too. It's just like, what in the what
Speaker 2: in the actual I'm using a very simplified scenario to
Speaker 2: just break down how many and I really called it.
Speaker 2: I was like, how can you do that? No, like
Speaker 2: you've got your and he's like, no, that's why I
Speaker 2: have a wife. I was like, m and.
Speaker 1: Be your own because you're thinking this guy is younger
Speaker 1: than me. He clearly you should be more quote unquote woke,
Speaker 1: but here we are nope, pushing it, pushing pushing gender.
Speaker 2: He's sleeping Oma. That's just that's just been there.
Speaker 1: And you know what, people probably were looking at Tom
Speaker 1: like that Tom is checked, so obviously that's why he'd
Speaker 1: be doing this Like you know, if it was a
Speaker 1: fellow zimbabwe and man, the question then becomes, do you
Speaker 1: have enough cahunas to stand up for your wife and
Speaker 1: be like, ah, you know, I do the dishes at home.
Speaker 1: I can do the dishes. Yeah, Like yep, it's exactly problem.
Speaker 2: Exactly, so it's we could go on. I think it
Speaker 2: really it really confuses me because I'm like, it's so confusing.
Speaker 2: We were educated the same for the most part. People
Speaker 2: were global minded to some degree. Obviously it depends on
Speaker 2: you know, situation, circumstance. We all have access to the internet.
Speaker 2: We're all trying to play a part. I was so confused,
Speaker 2: and it's I think what hurts and I think it
Speaker 2: ultimately why it affects me. I think it really hurts
Speaker 2: as a black woman to see black men being quiet
Speaker 2: when black women suffer. And I'm not saying.
Speaker 1: It's the ultimately, it's the ultimate hard Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's not that we want you to
Speaker 2: now or whatever. Like we understand there's a whole history
Speaker 2: and it's hard to like and do a lot of that,
Speaker 2: but to carry your plate or to offer to help
Speaker 2: with I don't know how to explain it. There's just yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what, I should think.
Speaker 1: It's so deep because there's a lot of and I'm
Speaker 1: sure at some point we're going to have a whole
Speaker 1: episode or centered around this because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: self hate attached there, because it's like, sometimes it feels
Speaker 1: like black men will treat any other race decent but us.
Speaker 2: You know, my mom was strong, so you'll be strong.
Speaker 1: But I'm not a quiet rath like you know, I'm
Speaker 1: a fellow sister who uphold me, uplift me the same
Speaker 1: way I want to uphold and uplift you. And I
Speaker 1: feel like we then race races. Sometimes a lot of
Speaker 1: times you notice and we're digressing here, but hey, just
Speaker 1: come with us. Yes, a lot of times you you
Speaker 1: notice that we are very especially when it comes to
Speaker 1: a black man. It feels as if they're complimentary of
Speaker 1: everyone else but us.
Speaker 2: They treat everyone else.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you see this guy in a soft life
Speaker 1: with the with the twy honey, and then I was
Speaker 1: like you was like, no, you're being treated like this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why can't you just be as soft as you are?
Speaker 1: But obviously there's a lot of, as you said, things,
Speaker 1: we have to learn their history and this whole I
Speaker 1: have to be the strong black man and lead my family.
Speaker 1: And I think that's more so when it's black on black,
Speaker 1: you know, And it's it's heartbreaking to not be loved
Speaker 1: and nurtured.
Speaker 2: In your own home and surrounds.
Speaker 1: Before you go elsewhere, you know, so you can be like,
Speaker 1: I understand why people not understand, but you can see
Speaker 1: people due to ignorance or whatever, might not appreciate me,
Speaker 1: but you you know me, you should love me, and
Speaker 1: I appreciate you know, yeah too.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's it's it's really heartbreak. It's something that
Speaker 2: I think I'm trying to wrap my head around in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways because it's like, yeah, if we
Speaker 2: can't like each other up.
Speaker 1: How we women in the world and who will Yeah,
Speaker 1: because all the other men also look at us, but
Speaker 1: your own men don't appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, And I know it's almost there's a
Speaker 2: whole argument women, you don't do this or whatever, But
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't. I don't know. Maybe because
Speaker 2: I'm a woman, I don't buy it, because, as you said,
Speaker 2: the ability to support and be there for a woman
Speaker 2: of a different hue or whatever compared to or background,
Speaker 2: compared to you. It's really disheartening.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's not even about a love relationship. It's
Speaker 1: even like siblings. You know, a lot of times my
Speaker 1: brothers tender mosha. We we've gone to the royal areas.
Speaker 1: They have to push for me, like no, no, no, Amanda'll
Speaker 1: harp you get the bucket and get the water.
Speaker 3: We all grow. We're all in this because you all.
Speaker 2: Know this too, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's not but I'm not even talking
Speaker 1: about like you know that's romantic club is another step.
Speaker 1: But even just your own brother helping you in the
Speaker 1: morning to get tea for everybody to do this, to
Speaker 1: do that, it's just like, be my ally, help me.
Speaker 1: You know, this is a struggle. I'm not I don't
Speaker 1: have to be strong twenty for seven, especially with my
Speaker 1: own family, Like can I not be vulnerable here?
Speaker 2: If I can't be vulnerable, we know they're like thinking
Speaker 2: Rooney is watching New Slave Aways.
Speaker 1: So sometimes even like you just got to commend men,
Speaker 1: black men, black Zimbabwean men who are willing to fight
Speaker 1: the status quo, who are willing to question it even
Speaker 1: let's not even fight this is question, Like there's twenty guys,
Speaker 1: yeah and two girls. We expect those two girls to
Speaker 1: give everybody their bucket.
Speaker 2: For like to wash hands or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, be ages them.
Speaker 1: Okay, all the young guns go and get my bucket,
Speaker 1: like you know ye to be another aspect that's not
Speaker 1: just women do everything for sure. Notes because you're sitting
Speaker 1: on top, right, So who wants to just while saying
Speaker 1: for who wants to share when you're on top, who
Speaker 1: wants to go back and lift someone out?
Speaker 2: Clearly nobody And that brings it so much more into
Speaker 2: perspective to say, this is why we need allies because
Speaker 2: it's like it's so comfortable and you need to get
Speaker 2: a little bit uncomfortable for you to actually help. And
Speaker 2: I think what people don't realize. It's like it's like
Speaker 2: someone must lose for me to win. But it's like
Speaker 2: what if we all win? And if you push it forward.
Speaker 2: Imagine you're pushing forward and society benefits as a whole,
Speaker 2: like you become I don't know, And I honestly think
Speaker 2: speaking of the you know, black men black women scenario,
Speaker 2: I think black women were revered back in the day,
Speaker 2: but then I think with colonialism and the introduction of
Speaker 2: all these ideas of patriarchy. It shifted things to being
Speaker 2: almost like women as an asset or something to do things.
Speaker 1: And also I feel like as a skate knowledge right,
Speaker 1: because these men were being disrespected because you listen, I
Speaker 1: could only take it home. I could only take my
Speaker 1: anger home, you know, because it workout to be as bass.
Speaker 2: Yes, So now when I'm home, I can beat up
Speaker 2: on you. I can get all that anger and frustration
Speaker 2: out out. Yeah, so we're not denying that. That's why
Speaker 2: we were saying so much to work through, you know,
Speaker 2: But we's just like, can we work though? Yeah, next
Speaker 2: time you go move out to your sister, please just
Speaker 2: say something.
Speaker 3: Please just go help me with something, just please. You
Speaker 3: already got to sleep in.
Speaker 2: Yeah that wake up early, brah.
Speaker 4: And then they're just like you are already swathing. I mean,
Speaker 4: could try and actually you help me with the tear.
Speaker 4: Do something, just a little small steps.
Speaker 1: Somebody asking you to do slave away, but it's a
Speaker 1: little bring your plate after you eat.
Speaker 2: Just bring a plate. Let's start there, guys, very simple.
Speaker 2: Let's just bring the plate. That's it.
Speaker 3: We're clearly very triggered.
Speaker 1: But yeah, oh my gosh, it's such a layered topic
Speaker 1: and there's so many aspects to it, and I guess
Speaker 1: you just wanted people to question within themselves. Allies ship
Speaker 1: their thoughts, and I think a lot of times when
Speaker 1: you're like, I think it happened in America where they
Speaker 1: had Black Lives Matter and they felt like other people
Speaker 1: of color supported Germen, stop Asian hate started.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of talk about African.
Speaker 1: Americans not pulling up to help Asian. So I think
Speaker 1: a lot of times as well, even within our own communities, Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm already marginalized, but I can still for someone else,
Speaker 1: you know, because because again you should understand because you
Speaker 1: also sometimes go through it in your way. And I
Speaker 1: guess we just wanted to have an episode where we
Speaker 1: honor all the people doing the hard work out there
Speaker 1: in these closed rooms, behind closed doors, we see, we
Speaker 1: love you and keep going please.
Speaker 2: And the conspiracy theorists in me is like they don't
Speaker 2: want us to support each other because they know powerful too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, my dad and I actually have gone to
Speaker 1: depth talking about this. Tribalism was back back in the
Speaker 1: back back day. People used to actually some people there
Speaker 1: were different tribes used to share things and do batter trading.
Speaker 1: Then on colonism came was like, oh, that tribe and
Speaker 1: then people started going against each other, try bullying each
Speaker 1: other and exactly, and whilst you're busy doing that, I
Speaker 1: can come and take over. So really there's layers to this.
Speaker 2: Don't let them win, guys, don't let them wind.
Speaker 3: We're gonna be getting the DS.
Speaker 2: Just my theory on life conspiracy theorists. I think I
Speaker 2: got a lot of that from my dad.
Speaker 1: Just conspiracy theories anyway, but you gotta deep your dad
Speaker 1: was onto something.
Speaker 2: Always. What's our zim shout out for this episode? Room?
Speaker 2: So our zim shout out quite befitting is zimbabwe And
Speaker 2: born Stephanie Travis, who is deputy team principal of Lewis
Speaker 2: Hamilton's Extreme E team X four four Vida Carbon Racing.
Speaker 2: Oh that was a mufful before that, she spent three
Speaker 2: years working with the Mercedes F one team. We just
Speaker 2: wanted to shout out her for making waves and spaces
Speaker 2: where women don't often get a chance to shine. Stephanie
Speaker 2: travers at Stephanie Travis as her handle and talking about allyship. Essentially,
Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton of her and she's not the only woman
Speaker 2: on his team, I think is really really what it
Speaker 2: is to bring them in, open the door, allow them
Speaker 2: into these spaces, and that's what he did. So shout
Speaker 2: out to her and being in an unconventional field, in
Speaker 2: an unconventional space as a woman. I know there are
Speaker 2: a lot of more women who are now into Formula one.
Speaker 2: I know Amanda's a fan of watching one, so you know,
Speaker 2: it's shout out to that. I'm not quite there, but
Speaker 2: I can appreciate the speed we can edit. Being Zimbabwean bra,
Speaker 2: that's the extra flavor on top of that. Yes, exactly, exactly,
Speaker 2: So shout out to you Stephanie Travis for what you're doing.
Speaker 2: Keep shining and guys, we just hope this episode was helpful.
Speaker 2: It's a complex topic. This is why we do this
Speaker 2: podcast actually is to discuss these very layered topics which
Speaker 2: are not straightforward, but we strongly believe in talking about things,
Speaker 2: we start thinking about things, and starting to think about things,
Speaker 2: we start to find ways to shift and change and
Speaker 2: discuss them with others too. Yeah for sure. Yeah, thank
Speaker 2: you so much, Amanda, Thank you all for listening. You
Speaker 2: know we're on all the socials.
Speaker 1: Just find our website and our website on your website.
Speaker 2: Okay, anyway, thank you so much, thank for listening, thank
Speaker 2: you and for your time. And we'll catch you guys
Speaker 2: on the next one. Take care bye. We'll use your hand.
Speaker 3: They will tear you up.
Speaker 2: Lack a paper two. Oh no no no, yeah yeah
Speaker 2: yeah yeah