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Speaker 1: This is gem Nation. Well, my next guest is one

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Speaker 1: of the experts. I'm married at first sight. But before

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Speaker 1: dealing with the likes of cirone, Cerel, cyclone, Cerel, cyclone,

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Speaker 1: cerel and Jessica Power, Mel Schilling had a twenty year

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Speaker 1: career in psychology. All of this makes her well equipped

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Speaker 1: to write a book on all things confidence and building

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Speaker 1: our self esteem. Her new book is called The Sea Word,

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Speaker 1: a confronting title, but a very interesting idea.

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Speaker 2: That's confidence, Mel Shilling.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello guys, good morning, good morning.

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Speaker 1: The sea word would confuse some people, but the sea

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Speaker 1: is for confidence.

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Speaker 3: It is it's actually for courage, confidence, and competence. That's

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Speaker 3: actually three words in one.

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Speaker 1: That's three c's, because that's what we're told is about

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Speaker 1: ourselves these days, is that we have no resilience, no

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Speaker 1: emotional intelligence, no robust emotions on hand anymore. Is this

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Speaker 1: because of the pandemic or is there more to it?

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Speaker 3: The pandemic's certainly given as a hit, you know, I

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Speaker 3: would say, globally, there's a crisis of confidence. We've been

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Speaker 3: locked down. Even our little social skills like how to

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Speaker 3: actually strike up small talk with people has been snuffed

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Speaker 3: out because it's a muscle, isn't it like any other,

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Speaker 3: And we haven't been using it, so we're a bit rusty.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like it's a good time for us

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Speaker 3: to start taking a look at our confidence once again.

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Speaker 2: And in Australia, we don't like people that are overly confident,

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Speaker 2: do we.

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Speaker 3: Though, yes, that is such a good point because culturally

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Speaker 3: this differs a lot around the world. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you go to the US, you are absolutely revered for

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Speaker 3: being successful and shouting it from the rooftops. But try

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Speaker 3: doing that here in OZ and you'll be shut down

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Speaker 3: because you know, we don't rag, we don't blow our

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Speaker 3: own trumpet. So there's this really interesting tightrope that we

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Speaker 3: need to walk here in Australia, particularly for women who

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Speaker 3: are very easily labeled as aggressive, you know, if we're

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Speaker 3: being confident or as being you know, the B word.

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Speaker 3: So we've got to be really, really careful about how

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Speaker 3: we express our confidence and to make sure that it's deep,

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Speaker 3: authentic confidence, not just the superficial stuff.

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Speaker 1: When we look at the people I'm married at first sight,

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Speaker 1: so many of us, there is no way in the

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Speaker 1: world we do it because it takes confidence and guts

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Speaker 1: to put yourself out there on any dating service, but

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Speaker 1: particularly on television one. Are those people confident or are

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Speaker 1: they authentically confident? Are they TV confident?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a really good question because I think people

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Speaker 3: look at them on TV and would assume that, Wow,

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Speaker 3: they're so confident to do something like this, but they're

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Speaker 3: really not always. And you know, that's the difference between

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Speaker 3: what I would call performative confidence and real authentic confidence.

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Speaker 3: So many people can perform confidence, and you know often

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Speaker 3: we see this with people on TV or in the

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Speaker 3: movies or you know, pop stars, where they can actually

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Speaker 3: switch it on, be in the moment and actually perform

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Speaker 3: a role of confidence. And many of us do this

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Speaker 3: and now date jobs and lives as well. But when

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Speaker 3: we think about authentic confidence, that goes deeper. This is

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Speaker 3: about self esteem and self efficacy. So beneath all of

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Speaker 3: that facade of you know, sort of being the loudest

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Speaker 3: voice in the room, it's about really having self worth,

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Speaker 3: believing that you deserve happiness and success, but also backing

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Speaker 3: yourself and saying to yourself, yeah, I can actually do this.

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Speaker 3: I've got the skill to actually take myself toward those

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Speaker 3: goals that I want to achieve. It's hard, Yeah, it's harder.

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Speaker 3: There is a gender gap here. So this is what

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Speaker 3: I find really interesting, and one of the things that

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Speaker 3: really drove me in writing this book was, you know,

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Speaker 3: we are socialized differently as kids, don't we We reward

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Speaker 3: the boys for being competitive and leaderlike and taking risks

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Speaker 3: in their play, and the girls, well, we kind of

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Speaker 3: reward them for being kind and for being nurturing and

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Speaker 3: starting new friendships. And look, all of those skills are

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Speaker 3: great and definitely helpful as we grow up. But what

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Speaker 3: I find with a lot of adult women is they

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Speaker 3: have little girl hangovers in later life. And you know,

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Speaker 3: we see some of these kind of functional behaviors that

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Speaker 3: come through in their behavior as adults that belong in

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Speaker 3: the kindergarten, but not necessarily in the boardroom, so they

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Speaker 3: can sabotage women. But what is really interesting is there

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Speaker 3: were some research that was done by Hulett Packard a

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Speaker 3: few years ago where they got a group of men

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Speaker 3: and a group of women and got them to take

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Speaker 3: a look at a job description and decide whether or

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Speaker 3: not they would put themselves forward to that job. And

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Speaker 3: the men took a look at the criteria compared themselves

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Speaker 3: against it. When they met about sixty percent of the criteria,

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Speaker 3: they said, yep, I'll put myself forward and they'd jump in.

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Speaker 3: What percentage do you think the women had to meet

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Speaker 3: before they applied to be pretty Amanda? It was one

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Speaker 3: hundred wow.

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Speaker 2: Oh gee, actually speaking of one hundred percent Married at

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Speaker 2: First Sight because that's a phrase they like to wheel

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Speaker 2: out all the time, the contestants, and they were one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent, although someone did say two thousand percent. I said,

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Speaker 2: I come on, gave up the ante. But it started filming.

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Speaker 2: You're back on the show again with the rest of

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Speaker 2: the game.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we are. We're deep in the filming now, so

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Speaker 3: it's very exciting. Of course, Married at First Sight UK

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Speaker 3: went to air last night, so that just premiered last

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Speaker 3: night in the UK, so that's very exciting. But now

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Speaker 3: I'm here on the ground and filming in.

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Speaker 1: Sydney, because you're also one of the experts, I'm Married

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Speaker 1: at First Sight UK. Culturally, are they more brash less brash?

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Speaker 1: What are they like compared to us?

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Speaker 3: Do you know what? I went into it with all

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Speaker 3: of the preconceived ideas. I've got to say some stereotypes

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Speaker 3: about what I expected from the Brits, you know, stiff

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Speaker 3: upper lip and being a bit a bit more conservative,

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Speaker 3: maybe a bit reserved. But oh my gosh, I gotta

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Speaker 3: tell you I was putting my place pretty damn quickly.

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Speaker 3: I think if you were to put the two shows

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Speaker 3: on side by side with the sound off, you probably

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Speaker 3: wouldn't know which show you were watching. Yeah, really similar,

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Speaker 3: because it's the universal, isn't it. We're really just talking

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Speaker 3: about human behavior and relationships and mating. You know, we're

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Speaker 3: just like the apes in many ways.

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Speaker 2: It must be hard though, when you're at home and

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Speaker 2: you're you're sitting there with Gareth, your husband, and do

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Speaker 2: you pull out your maths expert card there? The poor

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Speaker 2: guy wouldn't be able to win.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't wash with him. I have to give him

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Speaker 3: a certain look and he says, I'm not want of

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Speaker 3: a couple.

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Speaker 2: We pour a.

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Speaker 1: Glass of red wine on his head, and.

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Speaker 2: Well, Mel, we're looking forward to your book one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: The c Word by Mel Shilling is out in all

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Speaker 2: good bookstores, and I like, I'm looking forward to seeing

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Speaker 2: you back on Marriat at First Side when it comes back.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Jones, you, Thanks Amanda.

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Speaker 1: Nice to talk to him out