1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that needs to do it, 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: needs hard and fast rules. Yeah, otherwise I find myself 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: negotiating with myself and that's exhausting. 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbat. I'm an 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: finding ways to optimize my workday. My guest today is 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: Mia Friedman, the co founder and creative director of The 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 2: Mum and mea women's network, Australia's largest digital women's media company. 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: They've reached four million women every month and also have 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: the world's largest women's podcast network with eight shows that 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 2: reached millions of women. As many Australian listeners would know, 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: Miya was the youngest editor of Australian Cosmo at just 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: twenty four years of age back in the mid nineties, 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: and because I was one of many loyal Cosmo readers 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: as a teenager, I feel like I kind of grew 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: up with Mia. I've also lapped up all of her 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: books and I just love how she speaks so honestly 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: and in just such a raw way about her life. 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: I personally found it fascinating to sit down with Mea 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: and learn more about how she structures her days and 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: the routines that she has. And I particularly loved hearing 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: about her methods for overcoming procrastination, which I think every 25 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: listener can benefit from. If you want to learn more 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: about Mia, you can find her at Mia Friedman dot com, 27 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: m I A fre d m a N dot com, 28 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: or via Ladies Startup dot com dot au, which is 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: her brand new project that includes an online boot camp 30 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: that will help you activate your business idea in just 31 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: six weeks. Over to Mia to find out about how 32 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: she works. So, Mia, it's so good to be sitting 33 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: down and chatting with you. 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 35 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: I would love to start by you thinking about but 36 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: the last day that you had where you got to 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: the end of it and you're like, oh my goodness, 38 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: I got so much done today. Can you think of 39 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: a day like that? 40 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: Maybe in the nineties. One of the exhilarating but exhausting 41 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: things about working in digital media is that you are 42 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: never done with digital media, both as a consumer and 43 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: as a creator. You never get to the end of 44 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: scrolling through your Facebook feed. You never look at all 45 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: the pages on the internet and read all the articles 46 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: and watch all the videos and listen to all the 47 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: podcasts that you want to listen to, And as a creator, 48 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: you never finish creating all the content. If I could 49 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: sort of stretch time, there are a thousand things I'd 50 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: like to do and complete today which I won't, And 51 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: I guess all I can ever see is all the 52 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: things that I didn't get to do each day. So 53 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: I think that that's something that is a little bit 54 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: rare in my world. And certainly when you're running a business, 55 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: there's always more to do. 56 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: There, absolutely is. 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: There's always more to do. So that feeling of sad itself, 58 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, wow, I had a great day. To often 59 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: have a great day, but I got so much to 60 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: do today. I don't know, that's not a feeling I'm 61 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: familiar with. 62 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm curious how that works because you're wearing 63 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: a lot of different hats here. You're a business owner, 64 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: you are the content director of Mum and Me, and 65 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: you're a writer, you're a podcaster, and I'm curious, like 66 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: you're you're balancing. I guess a lot of creative work 67 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: with also just trying to make a business run with 68 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: one hundred people in it. And I'm really curious with 69 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: your creative work, and particularly when you've got a book 70 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: on the go. And I loved work Strive Balance, Thank 71 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: you, you loved all your books. 72 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm not sure at least had an end. 73 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: Yes, books like that. 74 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, pressing send to my publisher, that was probably the 75 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: last time I felt complete. But then you know there 76 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: are going to be corrections, and then you've got to 77 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: be out there spreaking it. And so even that wasn't finished, 78 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: but at least I did get a finished book that 79 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: sort of landed where at one point yeah. 80 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'd love for you to go back in 81 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: time to when you're writing that book and plus wearing 82 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: all these other hats, like how does that work? How 83 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: do you carve out writing time? What does that look 84 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: like in your world? 85 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: You calve literally, you carve time out from people and 86 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: things in your life, and they all suffer to write 87 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: a book. You know that there are some people who 88 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: can take time from their day job. There are some 89 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: people that it is their day job, but for most 90 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: of us, we write it around the edges of our lives. 91 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: And so then when you're sitting at your laptop to write, like, 92 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: how do you get in the zone as quickly as possible? 93 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: Can you describe what does that look like when you 94 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: sit down to write? 95 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: Great question. So what it looks like at first is 96 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: downloading a lot of productivity apps. Then there's making sure 97 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: you've got everything backed up, Then there's buying a lot 98 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: of post it notes. Then so basically I did what 99 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: I always do and a lot of people who are 100 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: procrastinators do, which is convince yourself that doing all of 101 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: that staff is the same as actually writing the book, 102 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,559 Speaker 1: but actually it's just delaying the writing of the book. 103 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: So I love writing, but I hate starting. I love 104 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: all the projects that I do, but I don't like 105 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: starting many of them. I don't even like starting podcast 106 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: interviews very much. My favorite part is when i'm a 107 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: little bit as an interviewer, when I'm a little bit 108 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: through it, like about fifteen minutes in, and I'm like, okay, 109 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: good right, we're there. I find starting things very very difficult. 110 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 2: So how do you do that? Do you remember how 111 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: you did end up starting work? Strife? Balance? 112 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, And the advice that I always give 113 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: writers and anyone creative is that you just got to 114 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: do the thing. Like downloading the apps is not doing 115 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: the thing. You know, setting up a vision board and 116 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: setting up your desk or your workspace, that's not doing 117 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: the thing. Now for creative people and for writers, that 118 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: an important part of it because it gives you thinking time. 119 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: My friend Caroline Overington, who's a journalist and an author, 120 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: and she's written I don't know, fifteen books while having 121 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: at least one or two day jobs. As a journalist, 122 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: she has a Monday and she writes every Monday, and 123 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: she starts in the morning, and she used to start 124 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: when her kids go to school, and she used to 125 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: finish when they would come home from school. And she 126 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: was very disciplined about it. But she was always just like, 127 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: you just got to do the thing, and you can't 128 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: be precious. You've got to not let perfectionism be the 129 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: enemy of done. And I always also say to writers, 130 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: put some words on a page. Put some words on 131 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: a page. But back to Caroline, she would say that 132 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: unstacking the dishwasher for a writer is an important part 133 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: of writing because it's when we have so little time 134 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: to think anymore, because every little gap that we used 135 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: to have to think we now fill with our phones 136 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: and distraction. So sometimes doing menial things, whether it's buying 137 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: the post it notes or unstacking the distrushure, there's an 138 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: aspect of procrastination to that, but there's also an aspect 139 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: of thinking time that's really really important, so that when 140 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: you do come down to actually doing the writing, you've 141 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: already done some of the thinking. And I think that 142 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:22,559 Speaker 1: in our modern lifestyles we've lost that ability. But I'm 143 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: always very much of a view that you can edit 144 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: words on a page, but you can't edit nothing. So 145 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: just vomit onto a page. Just vomit onto the page. 146 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 1: And Elizabeth Gilbert, who is a wonderful writer and author, 147 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: she says that the way she describes it is that 148 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: you have to just accept that it's not going to 149 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: be perfect, and you've got to you know, it's a 150 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: lovely time when you're just imagining the perfect book you're 151 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: going to write. Then you've actually got to write the book, 152 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: and it's never going to be as good as you 153 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: imagine that it's going to be, and you've got to 154 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: be okay with that. 155 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: That's interesting, what with the getting the word vomit onto 156 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: the screen. Yeah, Like, what does that look like? Do 157 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: you lock yourself away and go, Okay, I'm here for 158 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: an hour, I'm going to crank out this many words 159 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: like you, Like, do you have a goal in mind? 160 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: How do you get rid of all the digital distractions? 161 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: What does that look like? 162 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: I wish I could say I did. I think that 163 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: sometimes I have to sneak up on myself to write. 164 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: So I think that by going, oh, I've only got 165 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes before I have to be at work or 166 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: go out to dinner or whatever it is, and you 167 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: just go, I'll just quickly write it and then it 168 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: doesn't feel so daunting. I think that a big mistake 169 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: that people make is going I'm going to write every 170 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: day for eight hours. You know, Elizabeth Gilbert says you 171 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: shouldn't be writing for more than a couple of hours 172 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: every day. 173 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: Now. 174 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: Some people don't have that luxury. Like my friend Caroline. 175 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: She had a day a week to write and she 176 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: had to write in that day, and sometimes it would 177 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: be a good day and sometimes it would be not 178 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: a good day, but that's all she had. So it's 179 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: creativity is what you want to what you want to 180 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: say in the time you have to say it. And 181 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: that's crucial because had I had more time, I could 182 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: have written a better book. But I didn't have more time. 183 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: That was the time that I had. And I think 184 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: that one of the hardest things about writing a book 185 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: is long deadlines. For me, I'm very bad with long deadlines. 186 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: I'm better with shorter deadlines. And I'm working on a 187 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: new project at the moment at Mum and Me are 188 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: called Lady Startup, where I'm putting together courses for women 189 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: who either are running their own businesses or want to 190 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: be running their own businesses. And because I've only got 191 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: a self imposed deadline, I don't have an external deadline 192 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: of a publisher or a newspaper deadline or anything like that, 193 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: it's on me. So I'm finding that really hard to 194 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: motivate myself to get to get it done. 195 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: Do you have most like daily habits. I've heard that 196 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: you love a good ritual routine. What are some of 197 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 2: the things that you do, maybe on a daily or 198 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: weekly basis, that you feel help you get through the 199 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: day better, achieve more and overcomes some of the hurdles 200 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 2: like starting things and hitting it Like internally driven deadlines. 201 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So a lot of it for me is 202 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: just about making sure my mental health is good and 203 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: that I'm in a good frame of mind. So I 204 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: need tea Almost as soon as I wake up. My 205 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: husband brings me tea, and I drink that I used 206 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: to like. Most people just reach for my phone. I'm 207 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: finding a bit of an intuitive desire not to do 208 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: that anymore. I'm finding that filling my brain. Particularly since 209 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: I veer toward news about American politics. I'm finding that 210 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: I just to start my day pissed off with Donald 211 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: Trump is not very good for my mental health. So 212 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: I'm sort of looking at change every so often, and 213 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't happen often. I can feel a habit shifting, 214 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: and I can feel a habit shifting. I don't know 215 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: what's going to replace that grabbing my phone. Something has 216 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: to do. But at the moment, I still do look 217 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: at my phone, have my tea, and then I have 218 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: to exercise. First thing that I have to do, I 219 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: have to go for We've got a treadmill at home 220 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: and an olyptical trainer, and I exercise on those for 221 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: about minimum half anarrowday. If it's a good day, I've 222 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: got forty minutes to spare, and then I will either 223 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: my husband or I will take the kids to school. 224 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: I'll listen to podcasts while I'm getting ready. My kids 225 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: are old enough to get themselves ready and get themselves 226 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: up in the morning, so all of that's great. So 227 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: I'll listen to podcasts and then I will drive them 228 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: to school, listen to more podcasts on the way into 229 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: the office, and then I'll come in. And I'm kind 230 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: of a little bit at the behest of the schedule 231 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: of my work and the schedule of other people. So 232 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 1: we've got certain management meetings that we have each week, 233 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, whips that we have on a regular basis. 234 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: I've got I host three podcasts, so and we make 235 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: from those four podcasts a week. So I've got to 236 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: record four podcasts episodes every week. So recently I was 237 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: feeling pretty burnt out because we just had a run 238 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: of doing a whole heap of podcast interviews for No 239 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: Filter in a row, and I was like, oh, my 240 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: head's about to fly off because I love podcasting, but 241 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: being in the studio where we are now for too 242 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: long can do your head in a little bit. And 243 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: it's intense. It's also intense, you know, sitting down and 244 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: having an intense conversation, particularly with no filter, and there's 245 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure to get on me to get 246 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: that story out. And in many cases the story is 247 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: really emotional, like it's a it'll be someone's life story 248 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: or something that's happened to them, and you know that'll 249 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: I've got to hold it together in there, and it's 250 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: not like I come out and burst into tears, but 251 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: I will feel drained because I'm so present for that 252 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: hour or so that we spend together, that that can 253 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: drain my energy. And then you know, sometimes I'll leave. 254 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: Usually i haven't been able to pick up the kids 255 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: after school, but I'm usually in the office till five 256 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: or so and then go home home, spend time with 257 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: the family, have dinner, and at the moment I'm now 258 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: getting back on my computer and working again. I've sort 259 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: of given up on trying to make progress with ladies 260 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: startup too much during a work day because I'm kind 261 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: of here for everyone else than I have to be. 262 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: That's kind of my job. But then when I go 263 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: home there are less distractions. So between about nine o'clock 264 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: after the kids are in bed and eleven thirty. That's 265 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: when I'll try to make some forward progress, and that 266 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: is the most satisfied I feel probably about eleven thirty 267 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: at night, when I haven't had those distractions. I can't 268 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: get up and make myself one hundred cups of tea 269 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: or wander over it to someone's desk and talk to them, 270 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: or reply to an email or in a slack channel, 271 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: and I just tick things off. 272 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 2: I want to come back to what you were saying 273 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: about your phone in the morning, and you realize that 274 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: you're starting to break that habit of the phone being 275 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: the first thing that you go to and then getting 276 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: depressed by what's going on in America, as I think 277 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 2: a lot of us are. And was that a conscious 278 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: decision to break that habit or have you just found 279 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 2: things are changing? 280 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: No, I'm very If I have one superpower, it's that 281 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: I really follow my intuition and my curiosity, and I 282 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: just I guess I follow my gut, and it, you know, 283 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: is what caused me to start Mama Meir in the 284 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: first place. It's what caused me to start our podcast network. 285 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: It's what caused me to start Lady Startup as a 286 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: kind of a new platform and any movement for us, 287 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: and so I just generally find myself doing things and 288 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm always, I guess the writer in me is always 289 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: standing outside and observing a little bit. So I'm just 290 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: becoming aware that I don't think it's normal for us 291 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: as humans to sort of open our eyes and be 292 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: bombarded by a thousand pieces of information. It's too much. 293 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: And I also just find that, you know, you wake 294 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: up and everyone in the families on their phones and 295 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: no one's even going Hi, good morning, how are you. 296 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm making more of a conscious effort to 297 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: sort of talk to my kids and not just sort 298 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: of bear myself in the work. I've just noticed, interestingly, 299 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind of starting to resist it in the 300 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: same way that I noticed myself moving off Facebook about 301 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: a year ago. Didn't want to look at Facebook anymore? 302 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: What's that about? That's interesting? 303 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: And so I thought, Oh, and what do you go 304 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: to sites or sources of content? Like if you could 305 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: only have say a handful in a day, where would. 306 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: You go, Yeah, well, I have to. I do genuinely 307 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: go to Mama Mea because I'm not involved in the 308 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: I'm not involved in so much in the website anymore. 309 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: We've got a team of content creators, and I find 310 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: that they do. I'm a consumer now of Mum and Mea, 311 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: as a woman who wants to know about who wants 312 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: a thin slice of everything that's going on from pop 313 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: culture to politics, and I find that Muma Mea packages 314 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: that still better than anyone. And I can say that 315 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: because it's not my responsibility anymore in terms of I 316 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: don't do that day to day, so Muma Mia would 317 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: be my go to. And then, of course I'm super interested, 318 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: as I said, in US politics, So I look at 319 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: the New York Times, I subscribe to the New York 320 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: Times and the Washington Post, and then a lot of podcasts, 321 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: you know. I find that I'm more and more looking 322 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: towards podcasts for all kinds of information, and I subscribe 323 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: to some edms, some daily newsletters as well. I'm finding 324 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: that what's most interesting to me about my change behavior 325 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: is where I don't go, which is Facebook. And I 326 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: hadn't gone to Facebook for about two years. I don't 327 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: mean I've never visited Facebook for two years, because groups 328 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: is something that's certainly been more active and more growing. 329 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: But I found that Facebook was just it felt like 330 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: walking into a casino in terms of being assaulted my eyes, 331 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: my ears, my senses. I didn't know what I was 332 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: going to get. I'm starting to return to homepages now, 333 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: much much more than I ever did. I'm not relying 334 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: on Mark Zuckerberg to decide what I want to see 335 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: every day, because what the hell does he know? So 336 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm going back to my trusted brands New York Times, 337 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: Mamma Mia, Washington Post to see what they have curated 338 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: for me, and some of my email newsletters as well. 339 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 2: Okay, cool, we might come back to some of your favorites. 340 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 2: Still at the end of the interview, I'm curious about 341 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: email as well. I know you use slack here for 342 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: internal me too, Is that right? Yeah, but you're still 343 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: going to get emails from the outside world. What is 344 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 2: your approach to managing your inbox? 345 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: It's terrible because I've read recently that email is someone 346 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: else's to do list for you. 347 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: Oh that's so true. 348 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: And it's true. It's like this person wants an answer 349 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: on this, this person wants to invite you to this, 350 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: this person wants you to read this. It's like, that's 351 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: none of that is what I plan to do. Today, 352 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: and I I've just I'm sort of cogitating on that 353 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: at the moment, and I'm looking at my email in 354 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: a different way because I think that what we've confused, 355 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: we've confused immediate with important, and so that everything that 356 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: comes to the top of our email box, we think 357 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: we've got to deal with that because it's interrupted us. 358 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: And just because someone's interrupted, I mean, any mother will 359 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: tell you this, any parent, just because someone interrupts you 360 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: does not mean that they've got the most important thing 361 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: to say. And I'm really aware that you spend your 362 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: whole day reacting to what other people want rather than saying, 363 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: you know. I wish I was disciplined enough to say 364 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: I look at my emails for twenty minutes twice once 365 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: a day or twice a day. But no, I'm just 366 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: the same as anyone else. I just check check, check, 367 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: check check. But yeah, a girl friend of mine, I 368 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: was trying to encourage her to subscribe to a newsletter, 369 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: but I didn't just subscribe to and she said, no, 370 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: I'm pretty protective of my email box. I don't think 371 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to my inbox. I'm not going to subscribe 372 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: to that. And I thought, wow, that's a really interesting 373 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: way of looking at it, that your inbox is like 374 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: the time that you have to spend and you should 375 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: be careful of who you allowed to come into it. 376 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: And I thought that's very interesting. 377 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 2: That's so true what you said about email being just 378 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 2: other people's priorities. And I'm curious because you must get 379 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 2: so many requests on your time, like obviously you've got 380 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: one hundred staff here, but all of the everyone else 381 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: in the whole wide world wanting like a piece of you. 382 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: How do you decide what you say yes to and 383 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 2: what you say no to? 384 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: What a good question. I'm very good at saying no. 385 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: I used to be always could not say. I used 386 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: to be very bad at it. Like most women, I 387 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 1: wanted people to like me and I wanted to not 388 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: disappoint anybody. And so what I would do is because 389 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: I would not want to have I would not want 390 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: to make someone feel bad for the ten seconds that 391 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: it would take them to read that I was turning 392 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: down whatever they wanted me to do. I would say okay, 393 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: just to put that off. But then what I would 394 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: do is buy a whole problem for future me, which 395 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: was I've promised to go to Brisbane, or do this, 396 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: or go somewhere after work, and then that time would 397 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: come around and I would really really really not want 398 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: to do it and it would really, you know, take 399 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: a toll on me or my family or whatever it is. 400 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: And what I found really helped is having having rules 401 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: and not saying I can't, but saying I don't. So's 402 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: it sounds really subtle, but it's really relevant. So like 403 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: I have a thing, I don't do black high functions, 404 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: So I don't do balls, I don't do dinners. I 405 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: don't do you know, I don't do lunches. I don't 406 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: do lunches during the week. What else I don't do premieres. 407 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: I don't do speaking engagements or charity things on weekends. 408 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: So once you have those don't it takes the should 409 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: I should I not? And that's even I find that 410 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: those kind of hard and fast rules help so much 411 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: in all aspects of life. So I exercise every day 412 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: because that's easier than exercising two or three times a week. 413 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: It's less mental stress on me because it's just a 414 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: non negotiable. It's like cleaning your teeth. Imagine if you 415 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: only have to clean your teeth two or three days 416 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: a week, and then every night you go should it 417 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 1: been tonight? Oh, I don't know. But then tomorrow night 418 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to be tigs. I've got to go to 419 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: that thing and I don't know. But instead you just 420 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: do it every You know, that part of your brain 421 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: doesn't have to think should I brush my teeth tonight 422 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: or not? Because you brush your teeth every day, Same 423 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: with having a shower, same with any habit that you have. 424 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that needs to do it, 425 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: needs hard and fast rules. Yeah, otherwise I find myself 426 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: negotiating with myself and that's exhausting. So Obama when he 427 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: was in office, were the same. He had ten versions 428 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: of the same blue suit and he wore it every 429 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: day because he said, that's one less decision I have 430 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: to make every day, and it frees up my mind 431 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: to make other decisions. 432 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, decision fatigue is such a big thing. Yeah, And 433 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 2: if we can reduce the decisions that we're making, then 434 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: we're going to make better quality decisions. And it's interesting 435 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 2: what you say about don't and can't. I read some 436 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 2: research about that recently where they had a group of 437 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 2: people that said I can't eat unhealthy food, for example. 438 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 2: And there was another group that said I don't eat 439 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 2: unhealthy food. And in this experiment, they were then offered 440 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 2: a snack as they were leaving. One was healthy, one 441 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 2: was unhealthy. And those that said I don't eat unhealthy food, 442 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 2: just even to themselves were fifty percent more likely to 443 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: get the healthy snack. 444 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: And people won't argue with you when you say I 445 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: don't I'm so sorry. I don't do lunches. Then that's 446 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: very clear. It's like I can't have lunch on Tuesday? 447 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: What about Wednesday? 448 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 2: Oh? 449 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: What about you know? And it's like how about never? 450 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: Is never good for you? And it's a clear line 451 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: in the sound. And the other thing I do is 452 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: that I'm just very honest, and so I say, thanks 453 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: so much for the invitation, but the demands of running 454 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 1: a business and having a young family means that I 455 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: just can't do anything except those two things, and no 456 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: one a lot. What I find people are incredibly appreciative 457 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: if you respond quickly, because what most people do is go, oh, 458 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: I want to disappoint them. So I just will just 459 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: ignore that, and they might they don't mind, and know 460 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: I mean they prefer yes, But they'll deal with a no, 461 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 1: but it's always thank you so much for getting back 462 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: to me quickly. At least I know I can move 463 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: on now. Yeah, And no one can argue when you 464 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: say work in family, no one can go, oh but please. 465 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: But I was listening to an interview with Oprah actually 466 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: on Gwyneth Paltrow's podcast Goup, and Oprah was saying talking 467 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: about saying no, and she said, you know, people will 468 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: become insistent. And she said, first they'll say to you, oh, 469 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: but it's for the children. And she's like, well that, 470 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: don't try to manipulate me. And then she said, finally 471 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: she'll just say are you not hearing my no? And 472 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's interesting. I don't tend to 473 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: find that. I tend to find people are pretty respectful 474 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: and generally just just like an answer. But I say 475 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: yes to a lot as well. But I have to 476 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: be conscious that my time and my energy is a 477 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: finite resource and who and what are my priorities? 478 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and obviously like parenting changes everything. You've got three kids. 479 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: I think your youngest is nine? Yeah, right, yeah? What 480 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: are your tips for parents, particularly working parents? What are 481 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: your best time hacks? 482 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? Make them do as much for themselves as possible. 483 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: So my kids will make their own lunches. I can't 484 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: be bothered. And also it's good for them to learn that, right, 485 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: it's good for them to learn that. And my parenting 486 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: philosophy very much ties in with me being lazy. So 487 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: the less I have to do, the better. Yeah, And 488 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 1: what I always say, my one piece of advice is 489 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: lower your standards for yourself and raise your standards for 490 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: other people around you in your life. And I think 491 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: that's such a thing for women because we always feel like, oh, 492 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: I have to do everything, And the studies show that 493 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: the women who work full time tend to do more 494 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: housework because they feel guilty. So it's like, just lower 495 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: your standards for yourself, whether it's the less tidy house, 496 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: not making every soccer game, you know, having your kids 497 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: eat baked beans out of a can. Sometimes it's all okay. 498 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,239 Speaker 1: And you know, I think that this idea of that 499 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: being a good parent means always putting your children first. 500 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: I say bollocks to that. And I think it's such 501 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: a trap because that's not a standard that we put 502 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: out there for men. It's a standard that we only 503 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: have out there for mothers, and I feel that as 504 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: an employer of a lot of millennials and post millennials, 505 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: every time you put your chi I don't mean when 506 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: they really need you, like if they're bleeding, or if 507 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: they're like distressed, or you know, or three years old. 508 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that, but I'm talking about all 509 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: the times that society tells us that we should drop 510 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: everything and put our children's needs above our own and 511 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: above everyone else's. As an employer of a lot of 512 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: young people, I would say you are doing a disservice 513 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: to your child's future employer if you teach them that 514 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: they are the center of every universe every minute of 515 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: the day. There are times when they need to know. 516 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: You know what. Mom can't come to see you in 517 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: your ballet concert because she's got to take Auntie Jane 518 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: to chemo, or she's got to go for a run 519 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: because it helps her feel positive about the day. Or 520 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,239 Speaker 1: she has to work late because she's got to work 521 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: late a boss asked her to work late. So that 522 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: idea of you are not always going to be on 523 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: the top of everybody's pile is a crucial lesson for 524 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: kids to learn, Like it's a crucial lesson. And I think, 525 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, I think the pendulum swung so far. Our 526 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: parents were very free range. I was raised by Boomers, 527 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: and I think Boomers were pretty free range in their parenting, 528 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: which was just kind of, you know, go out and 529 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: play till it gets dark and then come inside. And 530 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: then our generation exs. We kind of were the first 531 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: generation to treat parent as a verb, you know, to 532 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: parent and and I think there's a happy medium in 533 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: there somewhere, and that's what I would encourage people to 534 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: try to find, you know, promoting resilience in your children 535 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: by making them as self sufficient as possible. 536 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 2: Yes, good advice, Good advice. One other thing I wanted 537 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 2: to ask about before we sort of move on to 538 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: some rapid fire questions to finish it off, is your 539 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 2: approach to taking breaks like during the day. I've heard 540 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 2: that you're you're not like you so you don't do lunches. 541 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 2: I hear that loud and clear. So what do you 542 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: do to re energize during the day. 543 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: I drink a lot of tea. That's a really good question. 544 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: I have gone through phases. I've been in sort of 545 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: open we have an open plan office, and because our 546 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: space is limited. My husband and I used to have 547 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: office and then we gave them up because we needed 548 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: more meeting rooms. And I've just commandeered one again because 549 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: I found that being in open plan is a big 550 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: drain of my energy. And I think a lot of 551 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: people find that in open plan offices. And I'm lucky 552 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: enough that I'm the boss and I can go and go. 553 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to take back this office now. But what 554 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: do I do to reenergize? Oh, I don't know. I 555 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: find that consuming content is reenergizes me. And just like 556 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: the mental break of getting up and going and making 557 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: a cup of tea, like I always make my own. 558 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: You know, I've got an assistant, but she very very 559 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: very rarely makes me a cup of tea. I always 560 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: do that myself because I find that that's a bit 561 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: of a mental break tea in a way combined to too, 562 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: it's efficient. 563 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: That's a great motto for a break, exactly, love it, 564 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 2: love it. I'd love to finish off with some rapid 565 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 2: fire questions. You mentioned that you've got some go to 566 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 2: podcasts uselet as that you subscribe to. I wanted to 567 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: drillly into, like what are your favorite ones, because I 568 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: think it can be really overwhelming for people. There's so 569 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: much out there, and it's really interesting to know what 570 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 2: are people like yourself consumed. So podcasts. What are your 571 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 2: go to podcasts right now? 572 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: I listen a lot to a podcast called Pod Save America, 573 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: which is about Trump, so I'm going to be a 574 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: little bit Trump heavy. I find The Daily by the 575 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: New York Times a really great podcast, although I haven't 576 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: been listening to it so much for the last couple 577 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: of weeks. And there's an interview podcast called fresh Air 578 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: that is on NPR and it's hosted and has been 579 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: for many many years by a wonderful woman called Terry Gross, 580 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: and her interviews are just so interesting, so so interesting, 581 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: just the way she does interviews. So I listen. I 582 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: really like all of those podcasts fantastic. 583 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: What about the newsletters? What are your What are the 584 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: ones that you look forward to actually receive? 585 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, as one from CNN, I'm called Reliable Sources 586 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: by Brian Selter. It's about the media. I get that 587 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: every day and I love that. That's what I really 588 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: look forward to reading. And I consume Mama Maya a lot. 589 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: By our adms. We do a morning and an evening one. 590 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: I really enjoy that because it's a good thin slice. 591 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we create about forty pieces of content a day, 592 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: but we have about ten in each of those newsletters, 593 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: and it's a good way to sort of thin slice 594 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: what's going on, even if you just skim the headlines. 595 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 2: Excellent. And finally, books, what is a good book that 596 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: you have read in recent months? 597 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: I'd really recommend Cheryl Samdberg's most recent book. It came 598 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: out about a year ago, so it's not that recent, 599 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: but my goodness, it's brilliant. It's called Option B. And 600 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: I was such a fan of Leaning, and I still 601 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: recommend Leaning. I think it's a fantastic book. But Option 602 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: B is the book that she wrote a couple of 603 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: years ago after her husband died very unexpectedly, and it's 604 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: that idea of sometimes option A is not available to you, 605 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: and so then what you've got to kick the shit 606 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: out of Option B. And that's not just about losing 607 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: some one to death. It could be losing your job, 608 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: it could be you know, losing a pregnancy, losing a relationship. 609 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: It's really all about coping after something happens to you. 610 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: In that sense, and a bit of a companion book 611 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: that I've been reading that's that's going to be out 612 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: later in this year, I think October. The first is 613 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: Lee Sale's new book called Any Ordinary Day, and it 614 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: is about it's interview, a series of interviews that she's 615 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: done with people who have been essentially blindsided by tragedy, 616 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: you know, a crime or a sudden death of someone 617 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: they love or someone who is in the Link Cafe siege. 618 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: And it's about the name of the book applies. It 619 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: refers to the fact that they all woke up and 620 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: thought that it was just an ordinary day, and it 621 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: was an absolutely extraordinary day that would change the course 622 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: of their life forever. And it's about what happens the 623 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: day after the worst day of your life. And she's 624 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: such a wonderful right lay which is something that a 625 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: lot of people might not know about her if they 626 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: know her as host of seven point thirty and the 627 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: formidable political interview that she is. But it sounds like 628 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: it's a horrific thing to write about, but she's got 629 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: a lovely, chatty, engaging style that she brings to it, 630 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: and it's just, yeah, it's a wonderful read. So those 631 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: two as companion pieces are my recommendation awesome. 632 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Mia, It's been so nice talking 633 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 2: to you. 634 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. 635 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: Hey there, that's it for today's episode. If you liked it, 636 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 2: there are plenty of others that you might also enjoy, 637 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 2: such as my chat with Matt Mullenwig, co founder of WordPress, 638 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 2: where we talk about how he organizes his phone to 639 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 2: create healthy habits, and my conversation with Adam Grant, where 640 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: we talk about the two things he does at the 641 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 2: start of every week to make sure he stays on 642 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: track with what really matters. Finally, it's great getting feedback 643 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: from listeners such as yourself, so feel free to give 644 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: this podcast a review in iTunes or wherever you listen 645 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 2: to your podcasts. And if you like this episode, make 646 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: sure you hit the subscribe button so you can be 647 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: a d when new episodes are released. See you next time.