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Speaker 1: This is gem Nation with Jonesy.

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Speaker 2: Our next guest burst into our lives on the very

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Speaker 2: first season of Australian Idol. All of Australia fell in

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Speaker 2: love with Rob Mills, and he has defied the odds.

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Speaker 2: I think how a lot of people might have felt

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Speaker 2: that people on Australian Idol are going to go. He

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Speaker 2: has become. He's built a fabulous career across television, across film,

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Speaker 2: across stage, across musicals. He's in here spray of the

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Speaker 2: musical at the moment, and he's got a new book

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Speaker 2: out looking at what it means to be an Australian man.

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Speaker 2: It's called putting on a Show and he joins us.

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Speaker 2: Now Hillo, Rob Mills, how are you hello?

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Speaker 1: Guys?

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I also sometimes pinch myself to know that I'm still

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Speaker 3: working in the entertainment industry twenty years twenty years later.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy and now adding author to the list to

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Speaker 3: your quiver.

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Speaker 2: And it's a serious book, isn't it brought about by

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Speaker 2: the loss of a couple of friends. Tell us about

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Speaker 2: your thought pro to put this book together?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so during twenty twenty I was living in Melbourne

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Speaker 3: and lost a few friends to cancer, young young friends

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Speaker 3: fifty and forty, and couldn't get to the funerals due

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Speaker 3: to either border closures or to just you know, lockdown laws.

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Speaker 3: And then we were coming out of the lockdowns, went

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Speaker 3: out drinking and celebrating, I suppose with friends or commiserating,

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Speaker 3: and I realized the alcohol was not great for my

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Speaker 3: mindset at all. So had a really good check checking

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Speaker 3: with my relationship with alcohol, wrote about it, and the

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Speaker 3: Age and City Morning Herald picked it up and printed it,

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Speaker 3: and then the firm press said, hey, this is really good.

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Speaker 3: This really struck a chord with a lot of people,

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Speaker 3: especially a lot of blokes. Is it something that you'd

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Speaker 3: want to write more about? And I said, yeah, I've

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Speaker 3: always been curious about identity, the identity of Australia. But

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Speaker 3: you know, I can only speak from the perspective of

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Speaker 3: a man, So like is who is the identity? What

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Speaker 3: is the identity of Australian man? Who is the average

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Speaker 3: JOSSI bloke? What does he look like? Now we don't

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Speaker 3: have the beach blonde bond I surf a bloken out

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Speaker 3: back kind of sheep share and bloke either we do

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Speaker 3: have them, but Jonesy, you're not that guy. I'm not

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Speaker 3: that guy. So who is he? And is there an average?

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Speaker 3: It turns out there's not, which is great. We're a

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Speaker 3: massive broad spectrum of immigrants and Aussie's alike. And whether

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Speaker 3: you're a religious background or just atheist or whatever, it's

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Speaker 3: it's a really beautiful, diverse country of good wills and

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Speaker 3: good natured humans exactly. So. Yeah, I took on the

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Speaker 3: task and interviewed a bunch of people who have been

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Speaker 3: working in this field of either mental health or just

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Speaker 3: good humans and tried to get there basically, to shine

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Speaker 3: a light on their thoughts and feelings.

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Speaker 2: Has the way we've perceived straight and men to be

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Speaker 2: led to mental health issues, That stoicism, that man who

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Speaker 2: doesn't share his feelings has that led to troubles?

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Speaker 3: I would say one, Amanda, you hit the nail on

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Speaker 3: the head. The I suppose the the things we learned

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Speaker 3: from our grandfathers and our fathers was, you know, the

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Speaker 3: tied upper lip that don't say, don't talk about your feelings,

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Speaker 3: don't talk about the war, don't talk about anything. Put

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Speaker 3: things in a box. The box has to be emptied.

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Speaker 3: At some stage, the rubbish has to go out, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, like you have to. You can't just leave

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Speaker 3: it there overflowing. Yes, So what are the things that

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Speaker 3: we can learn from our female friends? What are the

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Speaker 3: things that we can learn from our non gendered and

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Speaker 3: LGBT allies. What are they doing really well? And what

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Speaker 3: are we doing terribly as men? It is a bit

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Speaker 3: of a hangover from our colonial past or however you

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Speaker 3: see it, but we do need to be better. We are,

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Speaker 3: we are moving better. We are we are getting better.

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Speaker 3: We are moving towards a more progressive and talking about

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Speaker 3: our feelings and thoughts, which is great. I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: that we are stuck at all. We are shifting. I'm

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Speaker 3: just saying I think some blokes need a bit of

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Speaker 3: a hand, whether it's from another mate or whether it's

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Speaker 3: from from from women across Australia as well, because what

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Speaker 3: bloke's asking a lot of women.

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Speaker 1: That come on.

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Speaker 2: But I think we'll get more out of relationships or

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Speaker 2: workplaces if men do step up emotionally.

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Speaker 3: I think absolutely. I mean that's the most important thing.

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Speaker 3: Is this communication is key. We talk about men needed

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Speaker 3: to be more vulnerable, but what if we reframe it,

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Speaker 3: and vulnerable sounds it's too hard a word for men.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be vulnerable. What if you change

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Speaker 3: it to open? What if you're just more open? All right,

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Speaker 3: I can get around open.

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Speaker 4: But I think that's a big deal, the vulnerable thing,

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Speaker 4: because I'm not a vulnerable person, but I'm probably open.

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Speaker 4: But what I've noticed is a lot of guys will

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Speaker 4: say all good, like I'm made of mine. His dad

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Speaker 4: died and at the funeral, I said, oh, mate, it's

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Speaker 4: just terrible. He says, ah, yeah, but you know, and

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Speaker 4: it's all good. I said, no, it's not all good.

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Speaker 4: It's dreadful. Your dad's died. It's dreadful.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we do. Men always do.

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Speaker 2: That interesting on all those dating shows like Married at

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Speaker 2: First Sight, I've got a real bug bear against those

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Speaker 2: kind of shows where women say they want an open man,

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Speaker 2: they want a vulnerable man, they want a man who

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Speaker 2: write them poetry, and the second the relationship gets a

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Speaker 2: bit rocky and the man gets emotional, the phrase man up,

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Speaker 2: stand up, step up comes up, and I think, no,

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Speaker 2: wonder young men. I've got two sons who are nineteen

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Speaker 2: and twenty one. No wonder men are confused.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a man one hundred percent. This is the thing

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Speaker 3: I tried to get into the book, these kind of

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Speaker 3: conversations that there's so much expectations on blokes to be

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Speaker 3: the vulnerable guy, but also to still be masculine. I

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Speaker 3: talk about the ever popular Fifty Shades of Gray. This

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Speaker 3: is one of the most popular books in the last

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Speaker 3: decade or so. It's about a bloke who ties up

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Speaker 3: and pretty much is BDSM around women. So women want

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Speaker 3: this kind of masculine, kind of dominating bloke, but they

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Speaker 3: also want the guy to be super vulnerables. Like, which

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Speaker 3: one is it? I think it's all It's all things,

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Speaker 3: but also everyone is different. It's just about a spectrum

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Speaker 3: of the things, and it shifts all the time. Everything

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Speaker 3: is fluid, but you have the conversations. Everyone is different,

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Speaker 3: Everyone likes certain things or different things. So find out

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Speaker 3: the person that you're with and have those conversations with

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Speaker 3: them and don't rely on the social norms. I talked

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Speaker 3: to a great sex ologiers Georgia Grace, throughout the book,

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Speaker 3: and she talks about the gender norms in the bedroom

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Speaker 3: completely completely, completely different to what they are when you

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Speaker 3: live your day to day life in the workplace. So

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Speaker 3: but having the conversation is important.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, and I look at it, I look at how

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Speaker 1: far you've come.

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Speaker 4: Our one of the top people that works here at

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Speaker 4: our radio station, Millie Michael, which is married.

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Speaker 1: Now she's off the market, but she was such a

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Speaker 1: fan of you.

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Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you.

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Speaker 1: She just just letting you know she was such a

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Speaker 1: fan of yours. When she was young. She had a

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Speaker 1: post review from Australian Idol and she used to kiss it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, this is it's not We'm flat, I'm flattered.

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Speaker 2: And do you come across that kind of thing? A

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Speaker 2: lot people saying I passed your poster them and I

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Speaker 2: liked it. I wore a hole in the mouth area.

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Speaker 3: You know what's funny is when they say you used

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Speaker 3: to really like you like now now you're forty, you engaged.

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Speaker 1: I'm just getting the studio.

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Speaker 3: Can there's Milly, there's Milly Hilly.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she's mortified we've brought this up. But we did

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Speaker 2: a phone topic about who's posted in your pash and

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Speaker 2: and you were the one for her.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's great.

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Speaker 3: I had a Shane Crawford poster in my room leased

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Speaker 3: High five.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say, hang.

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Speaker 2: On, hang on, anything's okay, discover.

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Speaker 1: If you want to kiss Shane Crawford, that's okay, there's nothing.

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Speaker 3: Wrong with that. What a man.

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Speaker 1: This is a great man.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 1: He's a great man. You're a great man. This is

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Speaker 1: about you, not about him.

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Speaker 4: Putting on a show by Rob Mills, out now in

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Speaker 4: all good bookstores and online.

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Speaker 3: Rob Mills, thank you, Thank you so much, guys. And Yet,

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Speaker 3: as I said, I didn't set it out to be

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Speaker 3: a self help book, but it definitely helped me along

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Speaker 3: the way. So I'm hoping that the reader learns as

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Speaker 3: much as I do throughout the throughout the process.

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Speaker 1: Good on you, mate,