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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, my guess is that many of these parents were

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Speaker 2: really hard on this stuff when they were younger, and

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Speaker 2: has heard it. I had my emphasis in all the

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Speaker 2: wrong places.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Famili's podcast. My name's doctor

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Speaker 2: Justin Coulson. I'm here with Kylie, my wife from m

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Speaker 2: to our six kids, and today we're answering your questions.

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Speaker 2: You can email us podcasts that's podcasts with an s

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Speaker 2: podcasts at happy families dot com dot you. Josh shot

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Speaker 2: us through an email. Sorry, Kylie, I milit said a

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Speaker 2: text message. It's still long for a text message an email,

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Speaker 2: and I want to read it to you. This is

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Speaker 2: a topic that we don't really talk about much on

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Speaker 2: the podcast, and I don't know why. It's becoming increasingly

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Speaker 2: relevant in our lives. And it's something that we've talked

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Speaker 2: about in the four walls of our home a lot,

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Speaker 2: usually with size and eye roll. It has to do

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Speaker 2: with our parents, it has to do with grandparenting. So

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Speaker 2: let me read Josh's email. He said, in my family,

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Speaker 2: I've noticed that when a set of grandparents first became grandparents,

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Speaker 2: caring for the grandchild was like whitewashing in Tom Sawyer.

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Speaker 2: The parent would say, it's a privilege for you to

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Speaker 2: fly down from Sydney to care for my child, and

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Speaker 2: the grandparent would say, yes, it's so wonderful. Now though

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Speaker 2: eight years later, with more grandchildren around, they're less reliable.

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Speaker 1: E g.

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Speaker 2: The parent will say, can you babysit from two to

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Speaker 2: four while I'm working at home? And the grandparent shows

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Speaker 2: up at three o'clock. And they're also less independent. In

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Speaker 2: the same situation, the grandparent will keep the child in

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Speaker 2: the house to run around and push the door open

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Speaker 2: while the parent is working and so Josh says, I've

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Speaker 2: got another couple of anecdotes for friends. A friend's parents

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Speaker 2: are counterproductive when helping. We've been there. Additionally, those grandparents

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Speaker 2: have lunch and coffee with their friends who are grandparents

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Speaker 2: and share pictures and stories. So they want the stories

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Speaker 2: and pictures, but they don't want to put in the

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Speaker 2: effort to help, Josh says. Other grandparents have certain expectations,

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Speaker 2: such as it's okay to start dinner at seven PM,

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Speaker 2: there's conflict, there's lack of knowledge, there's lack of awareness,

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Speaker 2: there's lack of emotional intelligence. I thought it would be great.

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Speaker 2: I need some inspiration, Please help, Josh. So this is

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Speaker 2: I feel like we can actually in some ways do

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Speaker 2: this podcast in like two minutes. My two minute too long,

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Speaker 2: didn't read version is they've got their own lives to live.

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Speaker 2: Be grateful, let them be involved and recognize that they're

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Speaker 2: going to do things differently to you, and that's okay

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Speaker 2: because you're the primary caregiver. You're the primary parent, and

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Speaker 2: you will be more influential. Just let the kids have

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Speaker 2: great relationships. That's my too long didn't read version.

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Speaker 3: So for me, I remember back to when you and

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Speaker 3: I were planning to have our first baby, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: we used to look at parents with their kids and

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Speaker 3: we would roll our eyes and go, we are never

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Speaker 3: going to do that. Our kids are never going to

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Speaker 3: be like, we're not going to speak like that.

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Speaker 2: We were going to be so good.

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Speaker 3: And we thought we knew it all. And I feel

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Speaker 3: the same way about grandparenting. So you and I are

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Speaker 3: not grandparents.

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Speaker 2: Yet, it's only a few months.

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Speaker 3: And I have this idealistic idea of what that will

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Speaker 3: look like. And having experienced life with obviously two sets

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Speaker 3: of grandparents for us, and the ups and downs and

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Speaker 3: the challenges around needing help and getting various levels of

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Speaker 3: help over the years, Yep, I think I've got it

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Speaker 3: all planned out. My idea of being available to my

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Speaker 3: kids and therefore my grandkids at the drop of a

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Speaker 3: hat is how I want to live my life.

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Speaker 2: And that's how Josh wants his parents to be available

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Speaker 2: because he loved He knows that they love the grandkids.

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Speaker 2: He knows that they want to be involved, but they're

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Speaker 2: just trying to do a little bit less parenting. They're

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Speaker 2: trying to do it their way.

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Speaker 3: But I'm also at the point in my life where

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Speaker 3: my kids need me less than they've ever needed me before,

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Speaker 3: and I'm starting to dabble in things that I've never

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Speaker 3: dabbled in before. I'm starting to actually get a life

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Speaker 3: that I haven't been able to experience up until now,

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Speaker 3: and I can see over time how trying to fit

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Speaker 3: the grandkids in and around the new found freedoms that

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Speaker 3: I'm experiencing as a parent will be challenging, and just

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Speaker 3: like becoming a parent for the first time opened my

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Speaker 3: eyes to just how difficult my parents had it. I'm

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Speaker 3: starting to recognize and see how challenging it is to

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Speaker 3: coordinate everything. And you don't just have one child that

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Speaker 3: you're dealing with, You actually have numerous families for a

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Speaker 3: lot most people.

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Speaker 2: Both of our parents have like between fifteen and twenty

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Speaker 2: two grandchildren just for.

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Speaker 3: Themselves around different parenting styles with oh yeahs. So I'm

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Speaker 3: seeing in my parents often they're quite paralyzed in the

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Speaker 3: way they interact with my kids from a parenting perspective,

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Speaker 3: because you and I do things so differently to the

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Speaker 3: way my sisters do things in their home.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine my mom's dad don't know? Can you

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Speaker 2: imagine trying to grandparent the parenting experts kids like seriously?

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Speaker 2: So I was a little bit glib. I was very

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Speaker 2: very short with Josh's comments before because I wanted to

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Speaker 2: just highlight my real take home message is just be

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Speaker 2: grateful that they're in their lives. It's a joy, it's

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Speaker 2: a privilege. They're not going to do things your way,

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Speaker 2: and mostly I think we just need to be cool

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Speaker 2: with that. But I want to unpack that just a

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Speaker 2: little more when it comes to grandparents not doing things

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Speaker 2: the way the parents want them done. Let's remember a

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Speaker 2: handful of things. First off, as Josh points out in

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Speaker 2: his email, in the early days, the grandparents were all

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Speaker 2: over this. They were like, oh my goodness, this is amazing.

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Speaker 2: I just want this baby in my life and I

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Speaker 2: will do whatever I have to do it. But we know, psychologically,

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Speaker 2: we become accustomed to things, we become comfortable with things.

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Speaker 2: We tend not to get as excited about the new

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Speaker 2: shiny object when it's not quite as new and shiny.

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Speaker 3: Well, and then it starts speaking back to you, and it.

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Speaker 2: Starts doing poohs, and the parents aren't around to change them,

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Speaker 2: so you've got to change them happy instead, or.

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Speaker 3: The constant conversation that's not how mum cuts my sandwiches.

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Speaker 2: So, and grandparents have already been through this. They've already

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Speaker 2: done it. And this brings me to my second point,

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Speaker 2: and that is they did it their way. They look

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Speaker 2: at you, and I would imagine that they're probably pretty

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Speaker 2: proud of you. They're grateful that you're their kid, and

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Speaker 2: they think that they did a reasonably good job of

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Speaker 2: raising you. To some degree, a lot of grandparents are

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Speaker 2: going to be a little bit offended that their kids

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Speaker 2: are raising the grandkids differently to how they were raised.

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Speaker 2: It's like, well, did I not do a good enough job?

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Speaker 2: And many grandparents, whether they're doing it intentionally or not,

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Speaker 2: they're not going to change their relationship habits when it

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Speaker 2: comes to small children just because they're the grandparent now

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Speaker 2: and not the parent now. Many of them will. They'll

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Speaker 2: become softer, they'll become more indulgent. They'll let the grandkids

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Speaker 2: get away with things that the kids would never get

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Speaker 2: it and would never have gotten away with because they've

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Speaker 2: learned not to sweat the small stuff and they love

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Speaker 2: spoiling that little angel, that little cherub. But I really

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Speaker 2: want to emphasize from a grandparent's perspective, what they're saying is,

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Speaker 2: hang on, I'm living my life and it's my best life.

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Speaker 2: I mean, my parents have just retired and they are

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Speaker 2: so happy, just loving it. But they keep on saying,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how we had time for work because

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Speaker 2: we have got so much to do, and now that

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Speaker 2: we're not working, we're able to go and do all

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Speaker 2: of it. In fact, we still can't get it all done.

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Speaker 2: There's so much that we want to do, and now

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Speaker 2: we're also trying to fit in visits to our children,

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Speaker 2: to spend time with the grandchildren, to do the baby

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Speaker 2: sitting in and we no.

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Speaker 3: Longer just surround the corner. Literally all of your siblings

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Speaker 3: are spread out all over the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which may or may not be the case for

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Speaker 2: Josh and for his friends. But there's this issue of

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Speaker 2: just because their grandparents and their empty nesters doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that they're waiting around twiddling their thumbs hoping that we'll

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Speaker 2: call them and say, please come and look after the

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Speaker 2: children so that we can get some work done. In fact,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty much the opposite. So when they do show

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Speaker 2: up with all those grandchildren around, we should expect that

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Speaker 2: they probably are going to be a little less reliable,

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Speaker 2: and they may have their own agenda. They may have

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Speaker 2: preferences for how things might go. They may have activities

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Speaker 2: that they want to do with the kids that weren't

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Speaker 2: important to you. But they know that they're going to

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Speaker 2: have fun with the kids. And so this is that

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Speaker 2: bit where we sort of pause and say, I know

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Speaker 2: I want to judge my parents because we're fighting with

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Speaker 2: them about what and how like, oh, I just remembered

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Speaker 2: a story. This is an embarrassing story for me to tell.

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Speaker 2: We went out one night, I think at the time

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Speaker 2: we had three small children. We'd gone out for a

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Speaker 2: date and we came home a little later than we

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Speaker 2: should have. I think we got home at about nine fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Your parents, on a school night, had been looking after

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Speaker 2: our children, and the kids were still awake. Only one

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Speaker 2: of them was old enough to be at school, the

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Speaker 2: other two were preschoolers. And when we walked in the door,

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Speaker 2: your parents were sitting in front of the TV with

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Speaker 2: our kids watching a movie. And I actually cracked it.

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Speaker 2: I just said, what in the world is going on?

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Speaker 2: Why are the children not in bed? It's nine point fifteen,

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Speaker 2: Their bedtime is seven point thirty. And I launched into

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Speaker 2: a lecture to your parents. I don't even know if

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Speaker 2: I was studying psychology at the time. Maybe i'd just started,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It was very, very very early in

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Speaker 2: the piece, and I tore it to your parents really rudely,

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Speaker 2: completely inappropriately. I don't know if you remember that night,

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Speaker 2: And as I've reflected on what happened, I just feel

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Speaker 2: terrible for how I treated your parents. There. They were

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Speaker 2: giving up their Thursday night or their Wednesday night. So

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Speaker 2: that you and I could have a nice time and

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Speaker 2: regenerate our relationship. They'd spent time with the kids, so

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Speaker 2: they'd spend money on the kids. The kids had begged

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Speaker 2: and pleaded, can we please, can we please? Can we please? Please?

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Speaker 2: Please please please watch this movie? And because their grandparents

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Speaker 2: and they love the grandkids, they acquiesced. They sat down

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Speaker 2: on the couch and they thought, well, we'll have a nice,

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Speaker 2: quiet night and once the movie's over, the kids can

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Speaker 2: just hop into bed and they'll fall straight asleep because

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Speaker 2: I'll be super tired. And I mean, I was rude.

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Speaker 2: I hate how I treated them. I really feel bad

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Speaker 2: for what I said and what I did. And it

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Speaker 2: wasn't until a little bit later, as your parents were

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Speaker 2: leaving that your mum or your dad said something softly

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Speaker 2: like the movie I only had ten minutes to go,

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Speaker 2: and they really wanted to watch it, and we were

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Speaker 2: going to put them straight to bed, And I thought, wow.

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Speaker 2: I came in and I caused an absolute storm, and

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Speaker 2: ten minutes later, if we'd just been ten minutes later,

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Speaker 2: I would never have known. The kids would have been

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Speaker 2: in bed, and everyone everyone went to bed miserable because

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Speaker 2: I had my own agenda, and so I.

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Speaker 3: Think that that's part of the reason grandparents don't enforce

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Speaker 3: the rules half the time. They don't see themselves as

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Speaker 3: the enforcer. They see themselves as the soft place for

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Speaker 3: our kids, and when we're not there, they don't want

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Speaker 3: to see the kids upset. So you know, if going

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Speaker 3: to bed at seven o'clock is going to cause such

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Speaker 3: an upset and the kids are going to be distressed

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Speaker 3: going to bed, that breaks the grandparents' heart. It breaks

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Speaker 3: the parent's heart half the time. But you've got your

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Speaker 3: routines and your structures as parents, and you know how

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Speaker 3: things work, and you know how long the child's going

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Speaker 3: to be upset for, and you kind of you get

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Speaker 3: the whole picture. Grandparents are coming in halfway through, trying

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Speaker 3: to navigate to the challenges that drive parents crazy and

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Speaker 3: give them heavy hearts lots of the time, and grandparents

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Speaker 3: are trying to be the soft place and find the

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Speaker 3: way to do things with least resistance so they're not

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Speaker 3: seen as the enemy.

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Speaker 2: I love that there's something else that's important to consider here,

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Speaker 2: and that is as I've researched for my new book,

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Speaker 2: The Parenting Revolution, and written that book and talked about

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Speaker 2: it at nauseum over the last few months. Something that

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Speaker 2: strikes me in this conversation is that parenting is something

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Speaker 2: that we think about today in ways that our parents

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Speaker 2: did not. Parenting was not nearly as big a deal

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Speaker 2: one or two generations ago as it is today. And

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Speaker 2: so the idea that we would sit around and talk

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Speaker 2: about parenting, it's kind of a new thing. It was

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Speaker 2: not happening a generation and a half two generations ago.

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Speaker 2: Even our parents, they weren't that focused on it. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't nearly as intense, It wasn't nearly as programmed and focused.

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Speaker 2: So it has changed in such dramatic ways. And so

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Speaker 2: what we're doing in emails like this one from josh As,

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Speaker 2: we're saying, now that we know what we know about parenting,

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Speaker 2: and now that parenting is as intense as it is,

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Speaker 2: and now the parenting has to be done the right way,

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Speaker 2: the way that we say it needs to be done,

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Speaker 2: the way that our family has decided is the right

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Speaker 2: way that parenting is to be enforced. I need you

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Speaker 2: to catch up. Yeah, you need to catch up, and

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Speaker 2: you need to do it my way. And the parents

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Speaker 2: are like, you know what, we raised you differently and

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Speaker 2: everything's fine.

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Speaker 3: But do you know what else I think is happening.

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Speaker 3: You talked about this idea of you know, as we

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Speaker 3: grow older, we soften, and I think that often the

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Speaker 3: things that we as the parents are getting all worked

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Speaker 3: up about, our parents are kind of saying, I know,

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Speaker 3: it feels like a really big deal right now because

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Speaker 3: you're right in the thick of it. But after twenty

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Speaker 3: thirty forty years of life, I'm now recognizing it's not yeah,

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Speaker 3: the things that you know, don't sweat the small stuff.

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Speaker 3: And I think that often the struggles that we have

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Speaker 3: intergenerationally are because we still haven't got to that soft place.

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Speaker 2: And my guess is that many of these parents were

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Speaker 2: really hard on this stuff when they were younger, and

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Speaker 2: has heard it like I had my emphasis in all

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Speaker 2: the wrong places. So, Josh, we really hope that this

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Speaker 2: has been a head turning, soul expanding, eye opening, paradigm

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Speaker 2: shifting conversation. Now that I'm trying to sell it too hard,

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Speaker 2: but let's just be grateful for the fact that grandparents

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Speaker 2: are involved. If tardiness is an issue, then not in

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Speaker 2: the moment, but a little bit. Lady, you might say, hey,

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Speaker 2: the other day when you said you were going to

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Speaker 2: come by at two. We were so grateful that you

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Speaker 2: did come by, but it was three. Is life just

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Speaker 2: really busy? Did you forget or did the time just

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Speaker 2: not really matter to you because you're retired and you

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Speaker 2: forgot that. I'm still living my life on the schedule

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Speaker 2: and you can have a soft conversation with them. That

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Speaker 2: still sounded a little bit harsh, Still sounded a bit

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Speaker 2: passive aggressive. I might rephrase that just a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but really we're having a conversation to make sure they're

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Speaker 2: okay and to make sure that they understand, and then

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Speaker 2: we can just say, do you reckon next time we

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Speaker 2: can get.

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Speaker 3: You here we've disassed. Is everything okay? I was expecting

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Speaker 3: you at too today.

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Speaker 2: Yes, perfect, you're setting the boundary and you did it

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Speaker 2: so much better than me. But Josh, this is what

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Speaker 2: we're looking for a little bit of gratitude for the

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Speaker 2: grandparents and a recognition that they're choosing to give up

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Speaker 2: their time to be with the kids. And yes it's

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Speaker 2: important to them, but so are other things as well,

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Speaker 2: and they do have to spread themselves kind of thin

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Speaker 2: sometimes times. If you have a question for us, feel

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Speaker 2: free to shoot it through podcasts at happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot you. We might agree with you, we might not,

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Speaker 2: but we will definitely give you a carefully considered opinion

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Speaker 2: on how we can make our families happier. The Happy

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Speaker 2: Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: He does such a good job. Craig Bruce is our

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Speaker 2: executive producer. He's not bad either, and for more information

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Speaker 2: about making your family happier, please visit us and join

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Speaker 2: the conversation at our Facebook page, Doctor Justin Colson's Happy

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Speaker 2: Families