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Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio well for the last interview

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Speaker 1: of the year, the Opposition leader leofanoki Aro.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you Land, Good morning Katie. We've made

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Speaker 2: it to Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Well. I honestly it's been a bit of a struggle

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Speaker 1: at times this year.

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Speaker 2: I've got to tell you it has. It has. It's

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Speaker 2: been a very busy one, hey, Leah.

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Speaker 1: Those in Central Australia and indeed the Barkley are today

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Speaker 1: going to be waiting with anticipation to find out the

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Speaker 1: latest when it comes to COVID and wondering if they

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Speaker 1: will exit lockdown. No. On Monday we spoke to Steve

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Speaker 1: Edgington who was really quite critical of the government not

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Speaker 1: communicating with the community.

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Speaker 2: Why does the COLP feel that.

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Speaker 1: The community isn't receiving the communication?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, of course the Gunner government have a very

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Speaker 3: closed shop approach when it comes to COVID. They like

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Speaker 3: to hold all of the information very closed. They like

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Speaker 3: to have pomp and ceremony around their announcements and then

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Speaker 3: they like to run and hide and disappear and hope

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Speaker 3: that everyone can work out what they're supposed to do.

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Speaker 3: Now you know, that might be fine and in a

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Speaker 3: big city where people have a different way of consuming information.

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Speaker 3: But in a small town, you know, in a small

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Speaker 3: place like Tenant Creek, like Alice Springs, you know, everyone

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Speaker 3: knows each other, everyone is constantly talking. There is a

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Speaker 3: really good network of and information flows really fast. And

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Speaker 3: so I can imagine, and certainly Steve Edgington has been

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Speaker 3: banging the government, banging down the doors of the government

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Speaker 3: to say, come on, don't don't treat us with your

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Speaker 3: flags and pomp and ceremony. We need the information and

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Speaker 3: we need it fast. Because of course it's flowing so quickly.

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Speaker 3: Everyone knows everything before government have even announced it.

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Speaker 1: But so, why do you think the community of Tenant

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Speaker 1: Creek and into those in the Barklay needs something different

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Speaker 1: to the press conference that happens for the other communities.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't.

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Speaker 3: I think it should always be a good information flow.

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Speaker 3: But I guess the difference is in a small community,

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Speaker 3: when someone's gone into isolation in the hospital, or if

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Speaker 3: someone's doing something, everyone knows about it in ten minutes flat,

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Speaker 3: whereas in Darwin there's obviously.

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Speaker 2: More of us. So you know, it's just a bit different.

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Speaker 3: But I think what we've seen recently is the need

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Speaker 3: for a real shift in how government manages its communications

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Speaker 3: on COVID. Of course we've opened up now there is

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Speaker 3: COVID in our community and people deserve to know things

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Speaker 3: much quicker. We can have less pomp and ceremony and

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Speaker 3: more fast flow of information.

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Speaker 1: To be happening here. Do you think that they should

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Speaker 1: be just issuing a pressure lease every time someone goes

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Speaker 1: into hospital or what do you think needs to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it can be done that way.

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Speaker 3: It can be done through local members of parliament, you know,

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Speaker 3: it could be done through local councils. You know, there's

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Speaker 3: lots of ways to disseminate information, and certainly in Central

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Speaker 3: Australia and the Barkley, you know there are a lot

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Speaker 3: of stakeholders particularly you know when you talk to about

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Speaker 3: am SAND or even the AMA, and you know whether

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Speaker 3: the government needs to move to a more collaborative model

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Speaker 3: where everyone's briefed on what's going on, because we've seen

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Speaker 3: over the last couple of weeks how disastrous that lack

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Speaker 3: of consultation has been. And then that way everyone can

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Speaker 3: go at and have that consolidated energy on pushing whatever

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Speaker 3: the message might be, rather than government rocking up, announcing something,

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Speaker 3: everyone flipping out about it, causing mass confusion, and then

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Speaker 3: government having to backpedal.

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Speaker 1: So is the issue here with the press conferences or

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Speaker 1: is the issue here with the lack of consultation.

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Speaker 2: I think it's both.

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Speaker 3: I think what we've got is withholding of information until

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Speaker 3: a time that suits government, which obviously causes confusion, stress, angst,

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Speaker 3: and rumors in the lead up to that, and then

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Speaker 3: there's a lack of consultation either with industry or with

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Speaker 3: other medical stakeholders on the ground, and particularly in the

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Speaker 3: regions you know, a lot of it is the Aboriginal

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Speaker 3: Medical Health services who are delivering vaccinations, who are providing

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Speaker 3: that support on the ground. So I think a reboot

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Speaker 3: of how government approaches COVID is needed going forward.

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Speaker 1: Look, I would agree when it comes to the consultation,

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Speaker 1: I do think that they need to make sure that

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Speaker 1: they're consulting with the industry and indeed consulting with the

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal health and those different groups. But I actually think

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Speaker 1: that if we end up in a situation where we're

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Speaker 1: expecting local members and we're expecting the councils to disseminate

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Speaker 1: information to those communities, I reckon it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a dog's breakfast.

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Speaker 2: It's more about having them involved.

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Speaker 3: If you think about a place like Tenant Crete, who's

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Speaker 3: on the ground down there. You've got the mayor Jeff McLaughlin,

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Speaker 3: and you've got Steve Edgington, the local member. You don't

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Speaker 3: have anyone from government. You don't have government ministers flying

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Speaker 3: down there. Of course you have police and the health

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Speaker 3: people on the ground, so that can be clear.

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Speaker 1: Though the issue here is more not that the community

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Speaker 1: is not being consulted with, but all communicated with, but

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Speaker 1: not but that the local members and the mayors.

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Speaker 2: Aren't No, no, both, No, no, it's both.

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Speaker 3: So so what I'm saying is is number one, we've

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Speaker 3: seen the government not consult So we had their issue

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Speaker 3: two weeks ago where industry groups weren't consulted and of

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Speaker 3: course government had to backflip on what twenty December would

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Speaker 3: look like.

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Speaker 2: Then you've got the.

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Speaker 3: Issue of a lack of consultation with key stakeholders like counselors,

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Speaker 3: like local members, like the medical associations, who are the

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Speaker 3: ones who are going to be providing all of the

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Speaker 3: actual input on the ground. So I think government, So

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Speaker 3: for example, if government have their SEMs meeting. The next

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Speaker 3: step could be that consultation with all the key people

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Speaker 3: in said community who are going to implement it.

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Speaker 2: So if it's a small community.

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Speaker 3: It might just be the police and the versus the

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Speaker 3: local councilors and local elders for example, and then that

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Speaker 3: information it still gets done by government, but the key

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Speaker 3: people who are going to be the ones that everyone

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Speaker 3: turns to also have that information because as local members

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Speaker 3: for example, as a council, as elders in a community,

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Speaker 3: everyone comes to you and says what do we have

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Speaker 3: to do now?

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Speaker 2: If those people.

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Speaker 3: Don't know and can't give the correct information, that's where

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Speaker 3: we see.

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Speaker 2: A problem all right.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: On Monday, we spoke to the head of the AMA

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Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory, doctor Robert Parker, who's pretty

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Speaker 1: concerned about the situation in Central Australia and the closure

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Speaker 1: of health clinics. Now. The Health Minister said to us

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Speaker 1: yesterday on the show that there are some closures, but

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Speaker 1: that there is contingency in place should we see further

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Speaker 1: cases in Central Australia. Do you think that there is

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Speaker 1: great enough contingency in place at the moment given what

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Speaker 1: we are seeing in Central Australia.

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Speaker 3: No, and this is something particularly my colleagues Bill Yen

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Speaker 3: and Steve Edgington are really concerned around. We know that

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Speaker 3: the government have known about COVID for nearly two years,

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Speaker 3: and where where is the workforce planning to ensure that

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Speaker 3: this Christmas when we're opening up our remote clinics are

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Speaker 3: properly staff Now, we fully understand that our health professionals

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Speaker 3: have been working around the clock this year and they

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Speaker 3: need a break. We're not trying to say people should

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Speaker 3: not be able to go on leave, but the government

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Speaker 3: needed to have been planning for this moment in time.

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Speaker 3: We now have COVID through Central Australia and the Berkley

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Speaker 3: and then to be closing several health clinics not only

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Speaker 3: means that people won't be able to get healthcare over

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Speaker 3: the Christmas period and will be forced to come into

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Speaker 3: the bigger centers, but also if COVID does break out,

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Speaker 3: where's that frontline on the ground response? You know, it

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Speaker 3: then requires this mobilization of people from Darwin all over

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Speaker 3: the place, which then just has those flow on effects.

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Speaker 3: So we can't understand why at this critical time something

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Speaker 3: like a remote health clinic would be the first thing

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Speaker 3: on the chopping flor well.

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Speaker 1: And the other issue, of course is the situation that

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Speaker 1: we've been speaking about on the show for many months now,

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Speaker 1: and that is the number of nurses that we need

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Speaker 1: to recruit, the number of health staff that need to

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Speaker 1: be recruited. I know that you were yesterday saying that

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Speaker 1: it was unbelievable that the Health Minister finds it too

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Speaker 1: hard to work out how many doctors and nurses are

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Speaker 1: needed to recruit to plug the critical staff shortages across

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. Now, you guys, the Opposition obviously raised

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Speaker 1: questions and they were submitted through a formal parliamentary process

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Speaker 1: and quizs the Health Minister on how many doctors and

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Speaker 1: nurse positions are currently vacant at Royal Dalen Hospital, the

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Speaker 1: Palmerston Regional Hospital, the Alice Springs Hospital, Go District Hospital

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Speaker 1: and indeed Tenant and Catherine and how long those positions

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Speaker 1: have been vacant for Now you said in a statement

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Speaker 1: yesterday that the response to the COLP was there to

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Speaker 1: respond to this question is too administratively onerous and would

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Speaker 1: result in undue diversion of resources from service delivery Lea,

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that it's so important that we

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Speaker 1: actually know these numbers. I mean we've already been told

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Speaker 1: by the union that it was up to one hundred

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Speaker 1: need to fill. We certainly know that there are positions

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Speaker 1: that need to be filled, but why do we need

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Speaker 1: to know the exact number.

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Speaker 3: So, just like any business, Katie, if you don't know

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Speaker 3: what the problem is, you can't fix it. Now, we

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Speaker 3: were absolutely gobsmacked yesterday when we got the information back

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Speaker 3: from government saying they didn't know how many nurses and

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Speaker 3: how many doctors we actually need in the territory. I

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Speaker 3: mean for that to be too administratively burdensome. As the

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Speaker 3: Minister put it, is just ridiculous that number should be

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Speaker 3: on the top of her head at all times, and

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Speaker 3: senior people in that department as well should absolutely know

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Speaker 3: how many nurses and doctors we need in our hospitals. Now,

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Speaker 3: if government don't know how many nurses and doctors they

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Speaker 3: need in one of our hospitals, how on earth are

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Speaker 3: they then able to recruit for those positions When you

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Speaker 3: can't feel positions.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know how many positions you need, do

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Speaker 2: you reckon?

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Speaker 1: It's just a situation though, where they do know they

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Speaker 1: know exactly how many they need to recruit, but they

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Speaker 1: don't want to give that information over to the opposition

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Speaker 1: so it can be used against them.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know what's worse.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they either don't know, which is appalling, or

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Speaker 3: they're covering their tracks.

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Speaker 2: It's just another cover up from the Gunner government.

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Speaker 3: I mean then that you know, these guys go to

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Speaker 3: great lengths to try and stop us from getting information

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Speaker 3: and hiding from transparency and scrutiny, but ultimately written questions

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Speaker 3: is an official process. They have an obligation to respond

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Speaker 3: truthfully and to say it's administratively Burdenson's absolute garbage.

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Speaker 1: Look, I think it is really important information. I actually

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Speaker 1: think that we do need to know how many doctors

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Speaker 1: and nurses we are short, or certainly nurses within our

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Speaker 1: hospital system. And like I said, it's something we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about extensively on the show over recent months and

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Speaker 1: something that we've had a lot of nurses get in

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Speaker 1: contact with us about. And indeed, graduate nurses weren't actually

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Speaker 1: able to get positions within our hospitals.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that's right, And of course we've had the information

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Speaker 3: coming out from the unions that.

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Speaker 2: We needed about one hundred.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure if that was just for RDHU, whether

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Speaker 3: that was across the territory. But also that our nurses

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Speaker 3: are regularly working eighteen hour shifts. You know, our health

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Speaker 3: system is at crisis point. We have had four Code

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Speaker 3: yellows this year, which means a Code yellow is a

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Speaker 3: critical bed and staffing shortage. So if we've had four

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Speaker 3: of those and the Gunna governments still don't know how

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Speaker 3: many health professionals we need to stop that crisis. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's just a damning indictment on the way they're running

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Speaker 3: the show. Katie, and I just cannot believe for the

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Speaker 3: life of me that they don't know how many we need.

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Speaker 3: It means they're not putting any energy or resources into

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Speaker 3: fixing that problem.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, before I let you go, we know that

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Speaker 1: today the National Cabinet's due to me should discuss masks

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Speaker 1: in indoor areas, booster shots and indeed our borders. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that we need to start wearing masks in

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Speaker 1: indoor areas again? If this OMRA con variant is spreading

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Speaker 1: in other states.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, certainly we're very keen to be led by

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Speaker 3: the Health advice. On that, I think it's really important

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Speaker 3: the National Cabinet are meeting to discuss these things. Said,

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Speaker 3: I had my booster yesterday, Katie, so I'm triple vacks.

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Speaker 2: I guess you're saying there. My arm is a bit

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Speaker 2: sore today, but I'm all good.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, this will be very interesting to see what

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Speaker 3: comes out of National Cabinet. I know the Chief Minister

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Speaker 3: is attending National Cabinet despite not being back on the scene,

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Speaker 3: so we'll see how that goes. But yeah, well, I

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Speaker 3: guess time will tell what the new rules will be,

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Speaker 3: and we.

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Speaker 1: Will keep our listeners up to date with any of

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Speaker 1: that information that does come out of the National Cabinet.

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Speaker 1: But on that, we know the Chief Minister was due

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Speaker 1: to come back from leave this week, but extended that

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Speaker 1: leave for another week. Reportedly he's still going to take

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Speaker 1: part obviously in National Cabinet. Do you think that he

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Speaker 1: should be on leave at this point or do you

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Speaker 1: think that he should be at work at what some

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Speaker 1: see as being a very critical time.

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Speaker 3: Well, it is a critical time and it's interesting timing.

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Speaker 3: Given he is the Chief Minister. He got to decide.

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Speaker 3: Twenty December was the day that we were opening up,

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Speaker 3: so you would have thought that there would be.

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Speaker 2: Some management of leave around that.

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Speaker 3: But you know, everyone has personal circumstances, I suppose, and

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Speaker 3: everyone's entitled to go and leave, so I don't know

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Speaker 3: what they are.

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Speaker 2: I guess you can give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately, and you know, Nattash and Files and Nicole

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Speaker 3: Madison have had to clean up the mess he left

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Speaker 3: before he went on leave.

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Speaker 1: Are you going on Christmas Christmas break?

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Speaker 3: I know it will be here for Christmas. We absolutely

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Speaker 3: love a top end Christmas and we'll see what happens

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Speaker 3: in January. But I'm just really hoping it will rain

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Speaker 3: on Christmas Day.

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Speaker 1: But planning on taking a bit of time off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in January hopefully.

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Speaker 1: Well, Lea Finocchio, it has been a busy year, there

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Speaker 1: is no doubt about that. We always appreciate the time

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Speaker 1: that you give us each and every week. Come and

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Speaker 1: we you know, I know that a lot of our

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Speaker 1: listeners really like hearing from you, so we appreciate you

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Speaker 1: turning up every week and being part of the show. Well.

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Speaker 2: I love being in here, Katie.

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Speaker 3: It's always great to chat to you, and particularly you

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Speaker 3: know your listeners. You guys, you work very very hard,

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Speaker 3: you and the team to make sure that all the

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Speaker 3: current issues are covered. And as an opposition, we certainly

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Speaker 3: want people hearing our point of view and this gives

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Speaker 3: us an opportunity to reach out to people right across

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Speaker 3: the territory. So thank you and Merry Christmas you too.

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Speaker 3: I hope you have a lovely Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Ant. We always say in here, you know whether people

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Speaker 1: agree with you or disagree with you. I think it's

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Speaker 1: incredibly important that we hear from both sides of the

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Speaker 1: Parliament and indeed the independence as well. So Leah, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for all your time throughout the year and

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Speaker 1: we'll catch up with you again early next year.

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Speaker 2: Sounds great.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,