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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, it's not about whether they're beautiful or not. It's

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Speaker 2: not about if they're the fastest guy on the track team.

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Speaker 2: It's actually about who they are, the qualities that they possess,

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Speaker 2: and the way it makes other people feel.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Well, hello missus, Happy Families. I'm excited for today. I've

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Speaker 3: got two events today where I'm speaking. The first is

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Speaker 3: for Catholic schools New South Wales. I'm speaking to all

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Speaker 3: of their chaplains, all their pastoral carers. Going to be

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Speaker 3: talking about little people and big feelings, little people.

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Speaker 2: We've had a whole lot of experience with a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of little people and a.

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Speaker 3: Whole And then tonight, I'm super excited for this one

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Speaker 3: as well. Two great events. Tonight, I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: at the Anglican Church Grammar School in East Brisbane otherwise

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Speaker 3: known as Churchy. I'm going to be talking about bringing

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Speaker 3: up boys and having conversations about all the good stuff

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Speaker 3: like boys and gaming, boys and screens and boys and

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Speaker 3: girls and boys and pornography and boys and alcohol and

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Speaker 3: other substances, like it's going to be such a great

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Speaker 3: night parents, a couple of hours with parents at churchy,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be fantastic. And today, Kylie, we have

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Speaker 3: got a question that has come through to podcasts at

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Speaker 3: Happy Families dot com dot A. You can I read

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Speaker 3: it out to you go. He says, Hey, I have

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Speaker 3: a question for the podcast. This one's from Sarah in Victoria.

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Speaker 3: My husband and I differ on how much we think

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Speaker 3: we should tell our kids they're beautiful and handsome. He

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Speaker 3: thinks that telling them often will help them to feel

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Speaker 3: good and confident about themselves, and maybe even stop our

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Speaker 3: daughters from falling for the first guy that compliments them.

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Speaker 3: He's great with encouraging words, and I have to admit

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Speaker 3: that I appreciate it when he tells me I'm beautiful. However,

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Speaker 3: I don't think we should be encouraging them to dwell

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Speaker 3: on physical beauty. I'm worried that they'll think that it's

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Speaker 3: important to be beautiful or handsome, and it may increase

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Speaker 3: how conscious they are about the way they look. So

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Speaker 3: which is should we tell our kids they're beautiful? What

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Speaker 3: a great question. We have six daughters. This is something

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Speaker 3: that we have talked about a number of times in

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Speaker 3: our home physical beauty. Do we make comments about it,

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Speaker 3: do we talk about, well, you look great? What are

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Speaker 3: your initial reactions before we dive into some research and

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Speaker 3: some thoughts.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything wrong with telling your children

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Speaker 2: that they're beautiful or they're handsome. But if it's the

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Speaker 2: only thing we're focused on, then I think we're setting

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Speaker 2: them up to not to fail, but to have a

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Speaker 2: really really limited view of themselves.

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Speaker 3: You're so pragmatic. I love that setting them up to

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Speaker 3: have a limited view of themselves if that's what our

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Speaker 3: central focus is. So are you saying that it's okay

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Speaker 3: to tell the kids that they look beautiful?

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Speaker 2: The reality is there's someone out there who's going to

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Speaker 2: tell me that, no, you shouldn't be doing it. It's

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Speaker 2: an evaluation of someone's appearance, right. I wouldn't do that

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Speaker 2: in a childcare setting with a painting. I wouldn't tell

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Speaker 2: them that I thought their painting was beautiful. I would

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Speaker 2: describe the things that I saw about it, that I

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Speaker 2: enjoyed or I loved, but I wouldn't put an evaluation

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Speaker 2: on it. So there's going to be lots of people

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Speaker 2: out there that would say that it would be putting

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Speaker 2: an evaluation on it. Do I think there's any problem

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Speaker 2: with telling your daughter or your son that they look beautiful?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: I don't so when we, as she stated, there is

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Speaker 2: something reassuring when the person you love in your life

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Speaker 2: tells you that you're beautiful.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel and I tell you that you love?

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Speaker 2: I feel like the most beautiful woman in the world,

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Speaker 2: conquer anything.

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Speaker 3: How about that song by Eric Clapton, you look beautiful tonight, wonderful,

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Speaker 3: wonderful tonight. No, I look beautiful, Love that. So let's

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Speaker 3: talk about some research here. Rene Engeln has written a

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Speaker 3: book called Beauty Sick. I think it is the Bible

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Speaker 3: on this particular topic. Her research is exquisite, so well done,

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Speaker 3: and the book is brilliantly written. It is absolutely one

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Speaker 3: of my top ten books of all time and absolutely

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Speaker 3: one of the best books that I've ever read about about

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Speaker 3: girls and the issues around beauty. We know is that

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Speaker 3: whether we say this stuff or not, from around about

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Speaker 3: the age of five, our daughters, specifically, much more than

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Speaker 3: our sons, are worried about how they look and want

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Speaker 3: to change things about their appearance. Now, I can't remember

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Speaker 3: the exact stats. They're in Renee Elgen's Beauty Sick Book,

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Speaker 3: but something like one third of our five year olds

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Speaker 3: are already wanting to change something about their appearance. They're

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Speaker 3: already worried about how they look. One of the challenges

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Speaker 3: that you have when you start giving praise and talking

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Speaker 3: about how somebody looks is you increase the focus on

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Speaker 3: how they look. And so we've got to be really

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Speaker 3: careful that we don't overdo it. And something that did

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Speaker 3: stand out to me in Sarah's email was her husband

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Speaker 3: thinks that telling them often will help them feel good

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Speaker 3: and confident about themselves. And he's right, but if we

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Speaker 3: tell them too often, it can do the opposite. It

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Speaker 3: can lead them to starts to become reliant on the

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Speaker 3: external evaluation of somebody else to help them to feel

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Speaker 3: that they are enough.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and his hope that doing it on his

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Speaker 2: end will actually stop her from falling for the first guy.

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Speaker 3: That compliments them is actually not the case.

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Speaker 2: It's actually going to create that desire and need.

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Speaker 3: It has told. It has the potential too. I don't

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Speaker 3: want to say that it will, but it has the

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Speaker 3: potential to because if this girl, for example, if his

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Speaker 3: daughter keeps on hearing and hearing and hearing, Oh, my

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Speaker 3: dad thinks that I'm beautiful, I'm so beautiful, and then

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Speaker 3: she's with a guy who says the same thing, Oh,

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Speaker 3: you're so beautiful. She said, Oh, now I feel reassured.

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling those same feelings now that I feel when

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Speaker 3: my dad tells me, except they're even better because they're

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Speaker 3: coming from this boy that I like. And so we

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Speaker 3: know story after story of girls who have fallen for

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Speaker 3: boys who have whispered sweet and nothing's in there ears

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Speaker 3: and told them how beautiful they are. So for me,

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Speaker 3: I just look.

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Speaker 2: At the fact that beauty is number one. It's so subjective,

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Speaker 2: and it's also so changing. As a five year old

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Speaker 2: what beautiful looks like, to what it looks like as

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Speaker 2: a fifteen year old, and then as a twenty five

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Speaker 2: year old, and then as a fifty year old. Our

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Speaker 2: beauty changes. Our physical appearance is constantly changing, and if

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Speaker 2: our focus is so honed in on the physical, it's

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Speaker 2: hard to accept the changes for what they are.

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Speaker 3: After the break, I'm going to share a handful of

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Speaker 3: ways that we can offer encouraging words to our children

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Speaker 3: and help them to feel like they are enough, regardless

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Speaker 3: of whether they feel beautiful on Your daughter just walked by,

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Speaker 3: eyes glued to her phone, expression unreadable. You ask her

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Speaker 3: to put it down, but she balks. You know it's

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Speaker 3: not good for her, but you're not sure why or

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Speaker 3: how to support better choices. In the webinar pixel Perfect,

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Speaker 3: I join with psychologists and teen tech expert Joscelyn Brewer

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Speaker 3: to discuss how to set screen boundaries that work for

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Speaker 3: you and your daughter. Check out pixel Perfect now on

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Speaker 3: the Happy Families webshop.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers Now. It's interesting this

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Speaker 2: whole conversation around beauty, and you've obviously mentioned your book

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Speaker 2: Beauty Sick that you read.

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Speaker 3: Yeah Yeah, by doctor Renee Engeln, highly recommended. I actually

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Speaker 3: wrote a few things in Misconnection about our daughters who

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Speaker 3: want to be pixel perfect and this desire to look amazing,

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Speaker 3: and I thought I might share a couple of those ideas.

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Speaker 3: As we go through this, something that comes up all

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Speaker 3: the time is we just need to teach our kids

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Speaker 3: to be critical of what they see in the media.

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Speaker 3: We need to teach them about photoshop. We need to

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Speaker 3: teach them that every picture that you see on screen.

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Speaker 2: But they know they know that. And you know why

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Speaker 2: they know that because ninety percent of what they post

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Speaker 2: of themselves is filtered.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And what I was going to say

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Speaker 3: is they know it, but it doesn't stop them aspiring

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Speaker 3: to it. No, they filter because they're trying to be precisely.

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Speaker 3: But more than that, while ever we're doing that, we

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Speaker 3: are still focused on looks. We're still focused on appearance.

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Speaker 3: I actually think the best thing that we can do

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Speaker 3: when we are having conversations with people when we see

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Speaker 3: someone that we haven't bumped into for ages, is to

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Speaker 3: not say anything about how they look like. Just try it.

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Speaker 3: Next time you see someone you haven't seen for ages,

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Speaker 3: Try and not say, oh, you look great, or you

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Speaker 3: look like you've lost weight, or you look fantastic, or

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Speaker 3: like it's one of those natural things that we say.

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Speaker 3: We see someone and one of the first things we

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Speaker 3: do is comment on their appearance.

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Speaker 2: I reckon, you've just lost half the mums right now,

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Speaker 2: because everyone loves hearing that.

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Speaker 4: Well, they do, I know, But the thing is, we

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Speaker 4: wonder why our kids are so worried about their appearance.

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Speaker 4: But every time we bump into somebody, we talk about

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Speaker 4: their appearance. It's one of the first things that we say,

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Speaker 4: and it's an unhealthy obsession with appearance. Why can't we

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Speaker 4: just say it is so great to see you, or

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Speaker 4: it's been so long since we've caught up. This is

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Speaker 4: going to be such a great.

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Speaker 3: Chance to talk like why do we have to focus

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Speaker 3: on appearance?

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Speaker 2: I think that, you know, if we could counter Like

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Speaker 2: I said from the very beginning, I don't see any

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Speaker 2: problems telling your child that you know they're beautiful. But

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Speaker 2: one of the things that you and I are very

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Speaker 2: specific about is your beautiful insight and out right, what

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Speaker 2: are the things about your child? What is their you know,

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Speaker 2: like their personality, makeup their value system, what is it

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Speaker 2: their strengths? Help them to recognize and see those things

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Speaker 2: because those things actually improve with age and just get

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Speaker 2: better and better. There where they will find their sense

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Speaker 2: of worth.

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Speaker 3: I'm probably going to butcher this, but in her book

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Speaker 3: Beauty Sick, rene A and Geln actually says something that

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Speaker 3: her grandfather used to say to her. It was to

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Speaker 3: do with her youth and her beauty yes, and you

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Speaker 3: telling me, She basically said her grandpa would would say,

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Speaker 3: don't ever think that there's anything special about your youth

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Speaker 3: or your beauty, because you did nothing to deserve it

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Speaker 3: and you can do nothing to keep it. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: really about who are you becoming? And I think that

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Speaker 3: if we go back to Sarah's email, is it okay

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Speaker 3: to tell your daughter that she's beautiful or tell your

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Speaker 3: son that he is handsome? From a practical point of view,

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Speaker 3: as you said, Kylie at the very beginning of this conversation, yeah,

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Speaker 3: like it feels nice to be appreciated and to go

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Speaker 3: to some effort on your appearance and have somebody notice it.

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Speaker 3: It does feel nice, but we can't make that the focus.

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Speaker 3: I don't know where we get this horrible idea from,

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Speaker 3: and our daughters carry it more than anyone else, this

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Speaker 3: sense that my value as a person is inextricably linked

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Speaker 3: to my physical appearance and my worth. I'm only worthy

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Speaker 3: if I look a certain way.

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Speaker 2: I had a conversation with a friend the other day

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Speaker 2: and it wasn't about her physical appearance. She's just started

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Speaker 2: a new job and she's feeling the pressure because her

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Speaker 2: new boss feels like my friend is her living savior.

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Speaker 2: She's come in and swept her off her feet and

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Speaker 2: is doing things that no other person in her position

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Speaker 2: has ever done for her before. And she can't believe

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Speaker 2: her eyes. And so my friend's kind of feeling the

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Speaker 2: weight of that. And I just said to her, this

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Speaker 2: actually hasn't got anything to do with what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: This actually has everything to do with who you are.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't have to do anything extreme. It's because of

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Speaker 2: who she is, the way she thinks, the way she

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Speaker 2: just goes out of her way to do little things

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Speaker 2: that lighten her boss's load. She's not doing anything massive.

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Speaker 2: It's just because of the way she is. It's who

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Speaker 2: she is. And that's what we need our children to understand.

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Speaker 2: It's not about whether they're beautiful or not. It's not

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Speaker 2: about if they're the fastest guy on the track team.

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Speaker 2: It's actually about who they are, the qualities that they possess,

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Speaker 2: and the way it makes other people feel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not about the dress. It's about the girl

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Speaker 3: in the dress. Yeah. A few years ago, I was

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Speaker 3: on the Today Show and we were having this conversation

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Speaker 3: about whether or not we should tell our kids if

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Speaker 3: they're a bit chunky, if they're a bit of a weight,

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Speaker 3: if they're fat, and I'm at the comment, no, actually

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Speaker 3: we shouldn't. And the person who was hosting that day,

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Speaker 3: who will remain nameless, said but surely if your kids

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Speaker 3: are fat, you need to let them know. And my

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Speaker 3: response to that person was, they already know they're fat.

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Speaker 3: You don't need to tell them. The conversation was, we

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Speaker 3: need to watch what's going into our kids. Man, we

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Speaker 3: need to be in charge of the pantry. We need

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Speaker 3: to help our children to be beautiful because that's the

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Speaker 3: expectation in society. They need to be healthy and beautiful.

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Speaker 3: And I think my final advice in this conversation it

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Speaker 3: comes from James Corden, the British comedian.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not sure where you're going with this.

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Speaker 3: He had a viral video a couple of years ago

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Speaker 3: from his late night talk show and I can't remember

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Speaker 3: the full context, but it was about weight issues and appearance,

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Speaker 3: and he just said, instead of watching what goes into

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Speaker 3: our daughter's mouths, we need to watch what comes out

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Speaker 3: of ours. How good is that? So, Sarah, in relation

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Speaker 3: to your question, what comes out of your mouth should

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Speaker 3: be uplifting and positive. It should help your kids to

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Speaker 3: feel good about themselves. But more than anything, it should

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Speaker 3: help them to not be reliant on you for evaluations

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Speaker 3: of their value and worth as a human. If they

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Speaker 3: look beautiful, that's great, let them know, but focus on

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Speaker 3: other things more.

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Speaker 2: As they come to recognize what their strengths are, that's

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Speaker 2: actually where they get their fulfillment and their sense of

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Speaker 2: purpose as they tap into those strengths.

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Speaker 3: And they use them to help other people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they don't need the constant affirmation from outside

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Speaker 2: sources to help them feel a sense of worth.

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Speaker 3: Well, we really hope that this conversation has been helpful

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Speaker 3: for you, Sarah. Tomorrow a big discussion an interview with

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Speaker 3: Life Education. They have a brand new campaign that's just

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Speaker 3: come out all about transitioning to high school. So we're

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Speaker 3: going to be talking to the team from Life Education

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Speaker 3: about that. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 3: Ruland from Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce as our executive producer.

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Speaker 3: For more information about making your family happier, please join

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Speaker 3: us at happy families dot com. Doe