1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Parliament this week the legislation which has indeed been controversial 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: but passed. And joining us on the line is the 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: Independent member Farra lu And Robin Lambley. 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Robin. 5 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 3: Good morning Katie. 6 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 2: Robin. 7 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, you know some saying this legislation is controversial. 8 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: The community has been calling for change. Child and health 9 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: advocates feel that it is a step in the wrong direction. 10 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Will you please though that that legislation eventually passed, Well. 11 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 4: It was a complete scissor, Katie. 12 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 3: I mean the government talked it up over the last 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 3: couple of months making it out to be a strong 14 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 3: step to stop these kids from immediately getting bail and 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 3: set out back on the street to reoffend again. And 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 3: what we got at the end of the day was 17 00:00:52,720 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 3: a completely watered down version which allows the the lawyers 18 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: representing these children to get them off on a different 19 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 3: circumstances trivial, technical and exceptional circumstances. So any junior lawyer 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 3: or any lawyer work half their weight will be able 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 3: to use these circumstances that were shoved into the bill 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 3: at the last minute to get the kids off. There 23 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 3: the potential of going to detention and get them fail. Yeah, 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 3: you know, it was all a bit of a storm 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 3: in a teacup and Robin. 26 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: It was something that really got our listeners quite fired up. 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: I'd have to say earlier in the week when the 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: Minister for Police revealed on the show that that was 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: going to you know that that change was going to 30 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: come into place with that legislation, because it had a 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: lot of people questioning, you know, whether we're actually going 32 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: to see any change in this space or as you said, 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: are we just going to end up in a situation 34 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: where where young people who who continued to repeat offend 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: where they're going to be able to continue to be 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: let off on Baal because of that change. With the 37 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: exceptional circumstances. 38 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 3: There'll be no change, Katie. I can reassure territorians that 39 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: this bill will mean absolutely nothing in terms of addressing 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: crime throughout the Northern Territory. They watered it down to 41 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 3: the point where it was a complete waste of time. 42 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: It was embarrassing watching the Minister for Police trying to 43 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: worm her way out of explaining what exceptional trivial and 44 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 3: technical circumstances actually mean. She couldn't explain what they would 45 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: mean in real in real terms. 46 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 4: This is it's a nothing. 47 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 3: It's a complete waste of time. Territorian should be bitterly 48 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 3: disappointed in the Labor government to leading them to think 49 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: that this was going to make a difference. It will 50 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 3: not make a difference at all. 51 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: Robin, what's been the feedback. 52 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: I know that you're in Darwin at the moment as 53 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: Parliament sits, but what has been the feedback from your 54 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: understanding from the Alice Springs community which really has been 55 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: hit very hard by these youth issues. 56 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 3: Well, Katie, all that people know about this potential for 57 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 3: change is what they may or may not have heard 58 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 3: in the media or read in the media. There was 59 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 3: no consultation done with the community on this. 60 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 4: It was ran through. 61 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: So once again I'd say most people in Central Australia 62 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 3: are in the dark about this whole scenario, This complete 63 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: shamodel and waste of time. So what they're experiencing down 64 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: there is a continuation of the crime crisis. I'm hearing 65 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: stories of cars being broken into houses and stolen hows 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: has been broken into. The usual stories are continuing to 67 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 3: filter out of Central Australia, just as they have been 68 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: over the last couple of years. There's no change at 69 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: all in sight for an alleviation of crime in the 70 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 3: Northern Territory and that includes Central Australia. 71 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 4: Good and aided. 72 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: By this government after what they pulled well in Parliament 73 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 3: on Tuesday and Robin. 74 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: It's certainly I think that a lot of people will 75 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: find that disappointing because they have been waiting and really hoping, 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: you know that some of these changes that have been 77 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: announced by the Northern Territory government will make a real impact. 78 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: And I guess you know the thing. 79 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: Is time will tell, But Territorians have been suffering for 80 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: quite some time. When you talk about crime meeting worse, yeah, I. 81 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: Think it's a reality. The crime statistics show that the 82 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: crime is getting worse. That we even had the government 83 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 3: members trying to put a twist on on that somehow, 84 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: trying to tell us that crime really wasn't as bad 85 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 3: as what we thought it we think it is and 86 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: things are improving in some respects. Well we know that 87 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 3: that's not true. 88 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 4: Look, this is appalling. 89 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 3: The Gunner government has bent down to the various factions 90 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: that they're beholden to that ultimately give them control and 91 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 3: power and government. 92 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 4: This is a political move. 93 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: It was a political move to pull this stunt in 94 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: the first place, to say that they would address the 95 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 3: problems with juveniles and bail and it's political the fact 96 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 3: that they watered it down. I think you've got we've 97 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 3: got an impotent government that really is and has proven 98 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: this week to be unable to address the problem of 99 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 3: crime throughout the Northern Territory. I am completely pessimistic for 100 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: the next three years, Katie Well. 101 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 2: Rob and I you know, look the. 102 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: Opposition or sorry, the government Minister for Small Business, Paul Kirby, 103 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: he came on the show yesterday. 104 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: He said, you know that. 105 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: We've got sort of lobby groups or some of those 106 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: health groups and new advocacy groups calling for one thing 107 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: to happen. You've then, obviously, he said, got the opposition 108 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: and the Independence calling for something else, and they feel 109 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: as though they've. 110 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: Met somewhere in the middle. 111 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: I think that the thing that I feel has been 112 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: totally sort of lost in this discussion, and I know 113 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: it's not lost on you, but where the consultation with 114 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: those victims is at. 115 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: You know, that's sort of the main victims. 116 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 3: They're good at talking about, you know, the fact that 117 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 3: they care about the experience of victims that they place 118 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: victims first. 119 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 4: It's all spin. 120 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: You get a lot of words, but when in practice 121 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: they had an opportunity to change something quite significant, stopping 122 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: kids from just being put on bail and back out 123 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 3: on the street, they just couldn't follow through with it. 124 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 4: They just couldn't. 125 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 3: Stomach the backlash from their own factions around the implications 126 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 3: of that. 127 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 4: So it's a ship without a rudder. 128 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: You've got a week leader week ministers that are bowing 129 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: to the left factions within labor and. 130 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 4: Crime will go on. Katie. 131 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 3: I suspect that it will continue to worsen unless they 132 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: really find some courage and do something about it. But 133 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: we didn't see that courage played out in Parliament this week, Robin. 134 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: One of the other things that's really been spoken quite 135 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: a bit about in recent times, but it's something that 136 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: one of our listeners actually got in contact with us 137 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: about over the weekend as well, is the police attrition rate. 138 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: And we are going to be catching up with the 139 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: Police Association in just a little while. But the leader 140 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: of the opposition Leofanocchiaro, has come out today and she 141 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: says that the Northern Territory Police force attrition rate has 142 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: hit crisis point and an urgent investigation by an independent 143 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: parliamentary committee must be launched to work out why so 144 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: many officers are leave and what can be done to 145 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: improve retention rates. 146 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: Robin, is this something that you would. 147 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: Support, Absolutely, Katie, But we'll be debating that in a 148 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 3: few minutes when we go into Parliament at ten o'clock. 149 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: She's calling on a select committee to undertake an independent 150 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: investigation into what's happening in this space. 151 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 4: This is a serious problem. 152 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 3: You've got crime out of control, you've got the police 153 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: really struggling to keep their numbers up, and you've got 154 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: a police minister who tells you that everything's fabulous and 155 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: everything's fine, and it's not. But Katie, like we saw 156 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: last week in Parliament when they're independent Member for Malka 157 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 3: ying Yagoulia, tried to set up a select committee to 158 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 3: look at youth crime. This will not get up in parliament. 159 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 4: The government will. 160 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: Not allow this, and gosh, I'll eat my word if 161 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: it turns out to be wrong. But there's no way 162 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: in the world that this government wants to put a 163 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 3: magnifying glass over what's happening within the. 164 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 4: The police force. 165 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 3: I tried to do this a couple of years ago, 166 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 3: and they shut me down, and they belittled me, and 167 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: they said everything fabulous, and they will continue to say 168 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 3: that it. There's one thing that the Minister for Police 169 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 3: is good at, Niclelee Manison, and that is spin. She 170 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 3: will never concede an inch that there's anything wrong with 171 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: anything she says and does. And to my mind, it's 172 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: extremely misleading and belittling to territories hearing ministers that just 173 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: really all they want to do is obtain themselves in 174 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 3: the bright light, when in fact we have serious problems 175 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 3: within the. 176 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: Police I mean at this point in time. 177 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: Well, and at this point in time, I mean, if 178 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about twenty two officers in the space of 179 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: just one month, it's quite a large number. And I 180 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: know that she'd said to us on the show earlier 181 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: in the week when we asked her about it, that 182 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: it is because of those competitive well the competitive sort 183 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: of oh, I can't think of what the word is. Well, 184 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: you know, trying to get people to relocate to those 185 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: other states, so that competition from the other story. 186 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 3: But you sort of think if they're deliriously happy, do 187 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: they well they're feeling supported and the legislation and the 188 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 3: policies of the government are helping and assisting them to 189 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 3: keep territory and safe. That's the issue, Katie, And that's 190 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 3: what you won't hear the Minister the police talk about. 191 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: Well, we'll continue to talk about it, Robin, no doubt 192 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: about it. 193 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 2: Hey, just very quickly though, I know that. 194 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: You've been focusing the best that you can on Alice 195 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: Springs in Parliament. What have been some of the other 196 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: issues that you've raised for the community in Alice. 197 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 3: Oh. Look, I asked a question to the Minister for 198 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: Economic Reconstruction in Central Australia again, what's happening with our 199 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: art gallery? 200 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 4: And again we've got a pretty much of a non answer. 201 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 3: Look, I'll just toil away, Katie, asking the same questions 202 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 3: I asked pretty much during every sitting about crime, about 203 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 3: what's happening with our economy in Central Australia. 204 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 4: I mean, that's my I'm in. 205 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 3: Parliament to represent the people of Alistair, absolutely and that's 206 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 3: just what I do. 207 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I think it's an incredibly important job of 208 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: the opposition and the independence that you are there to 209 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: ask those questions on behalf of the community. Robin, just 210 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: very quickly, are you allowed to still say impotent in parliament? 211 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 4: Oh god, I need to test that out. That's a 212 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 4: good question. 213 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: I'll give it a go today and i'll let you 214 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 3: know tomorrow it sounds good. 215 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: We'll see you tomorrow for the week. That was good 216 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: on you, Robin, Thank you, Thanks Katin, you are listening 217 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: to mix one oh four point nine's three sixty Robin's 218 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,359 Speaker 1: always good at articulating those words. Those, you know, impotents 219 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: not a word that I use in my daily life, 220 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: but I reckon that's a good one to use in parliament, 221 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: and one which she uses quite often given the fact 222 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: they're no longer allowed to say incompetent eight nine four 223 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: one one oh four nine. If you would like to 224 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: call through, if you want to send us a text 225 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: message zero four one eight nine five seven three sixty nine. Now, 226 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: we actually did just get message from Jared Mayley as well, 227 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: and he let us know that the legislation around the 228 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: youth bail. 229 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: It's for those who go. 230 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: On bail as of today, not those that are already 231 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: on bail. So that's actually a very interesting part of 232 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: this discussion. So basically, these changes that come into play. 233 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: They're for those that go on bail well as of today, 234 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: not those already on bail.