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Speaker 1: Incredible show that I watched last night on sixty minutes,

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Speaker 1: where Amelia Adams did a really fascinating show on scams

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Speaker 1: and scamdemics, which is a good way of putting the

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Speaker 1: situation as it is. At the moment Amelia is on

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Speaker 1: the phone, I've got to talk to you. I was

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Speaker 1: terrified when I saw this. I mean, I was worried,

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Speaker 1: Amilia about you know, the scams before, But when I

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Speaker 1: saw this and saw how much money people had lost,

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Speaker 1: It's amazing, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It's extraordinary feel And I'm in the same boat. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I hear about these every day. And you know, my

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Speaker 2: mum was telling the other day about a scam that

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Speaker 2: she half fell for, and you hear about it, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize the extent of it until I started

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Speaker 2: researching for our investigation. And to think that, you know,

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Speaker 2: we lost three more than three billion dollars in this

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Speaker 2: country scammers last year. They're so sophisticated, they're so tricky,

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Speaker 2: they're so legitimate, So you can't you know, there was

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Speaker 2: a time I think when you say, oh God, I

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Speaker 2: can't believe your self for that, But any of us

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Speaker 2: could pall for these texts.

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Speaker 1: Well that's it. Therein lies the right, the fact that

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Speaker 1: so many people, intelligent people have fallen for this when

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Speaker 1: we're also so aware and so careful of opening texts,

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Speaker 1: of replying to anything. So the further they get into

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Speaker 1: the sophistication of it, the more elaborate it is, and

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Speaker 1: the more likely you are inadvertently to fall for it

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Speaker 1: and lose your life savings.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's extraordinary, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we always spoke to a range of Australians

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Speaker 2: who've fallen for a range of these scams, be investment, fishing, spoof,

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Speaker 2: whatever you want, and you know lost. The average Australian

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Speaker 2: who falls for a scam loses about forty thousand, which

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Speaker 2: is you know, it's not small cash. And I'm speaking

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Speaker 2: to people who lost one hundred thousand, you know.

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Speaker 3: Life savings, retirement savings, two.

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Speaker 2: Hundred and fifty thousand. Another man fell for which lost

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Speaker 2: which was all of his business accounts and his personal

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Speaker 2: account for this is life changing staff And it's just

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Speaker 2: these nifty criminals on text that just get you. It

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Speaker 2: is so on the rise, to the point where as

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Speaker 2: you would have seen last night, the government is now

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Speaker 2: stepping in and saying Okay.

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Speaker 3: Look, we've got to get everyone's together and.

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Speaker 2: Do something because I mean, it's not it's not it's

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Speaker 2: not okay for the victims, but also it's a serious

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Speaker 2: threat to our economy. When you look at the start

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Speaker 2: of the criminals and the impact that they're having in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Is this so this much of a soft target? It's not,

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Speaker 2: it's not good for any of us.

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Speaker 1: Well that's in your research. How did you find that

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Speaker 1: we became a soft target, almost a testing ground for

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Speaker 1: scammers around the world.

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Speaker 2: Look, I mean the current government says that the previous

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Speaker 2: government didn't didn't do enough, which might expect and I

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Speaker 2: think COVID played a role. You know, people were locked

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Speaker 2: at home, they're on their computers, they're online shopping, they're

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Speaker 2: you know, as theering their emails and their phone calls

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Speaker 2: and sort.

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Speaker 3: Of living in a bit of a bubble.

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Speaker 2: So perhaps we've just become a little bit complacent and

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Speaker 2: the criminals at the same time have become more sophisticated.

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Speaker 3: And more nifty.

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Speaker 2: Technology is and it's created this perfect storm where we're

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Speaker 2: seriously behind the rest of the world. And if you

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Speaker 2: look at Canada and UK and some of the things

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Speaker 2: they're doing, which our government is now looking to. You know,

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Speaker 2: it is high time we caught up.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. In the UK, you get used

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Speaker 1: to being scammed. I remember walking along the street and

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Speaker 1: I had a sudden sciatic pain and I dropped my

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Speaker 1: briefcase on the ground and nobody would pick it up,

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Speaker 1: because that would be the kind of scam that you

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Speaker 1: would somehow get you know, involved in. Everybody's wary of it.

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Speaker 1: But it became it's so sophisticated in the UK that

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Speaker 1: what happens is people will get hold of a key

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Speaker 1: to a flat and then you know, they will advertise

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Speaker 1: it as the flat being available. You'll go and they'll

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Speaker 1: show you around, pretending to be the estate agent. Everything

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Speaker 1: seems legit. Then you will go onto the website, put

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Speaker 1: your money into the website, you know, for the flat.

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Speaker 1: Turns out the whole thing is a scam. The websites,

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Speaker 1: you know, set up. As soon as your money goes in,

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Speaker 1: they're gone. But we've become so aware of this that

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Speaker 1: now we're not answering our phones. We're not, you know,

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Speaker 1: not for me. I'm checking my bank details every ten

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Speaker 1: minutes and then freaking out, Yeah I want to go

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Speaker 1: in to a bank and look at somebody behind the

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Speaker 1: counter and say this is where I'm at, and it

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Speaker 1: feels like that's the stage that we're at. We want

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Speaker 1: face to face verification here.

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Speaker 2: It's changing the way we live, it's changing the way

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Speaker 2: we communicate, which is really sad, but I guess it's

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Speaker 2: good that, you know, Australians are becoming savvy.

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Speaker 3: And I've got to say, you know, in our.

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Speaker 2: Investigation, we spoke to all of the big banks you

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Speaker 2: might expect, and they are pouring millions. They are pouring

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Speaker 2: millions into anti fraud, anti scam centers, staffing technology, they're

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Speaker 2: making changes. I think Combank has taken a really impressive

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Speaker 2: step in making changes to a name to name verifications.

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Speaker 2: So if I were to transfer you money, Phil, it

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Speaker 2: has to be your exact names, that's your account. Because

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Speaker 2: that's one of the problems is that you know, some

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Speaker 2: of the bank sort of regulations and systems are kind

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Speaker 2: of outdated when you now look at how sophisticated the

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Speaker 2: scammers are, so that's got to play catch up they.

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Speaker 3: And it's also this kind.

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Speaker 2: Of communication like if you know, fifty.

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Speaker 4: Grand goes from my account, if I had fifty grand

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Speaker 4: account that wouldn't be coming after there fifty grand went

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Speaker 4: from my I say, I've got a combat account that

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Speaker 4: goes into an am deat account.

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Speaker 2: You know, how can comback and am dead communicate track

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Speaker 2: the money three D account before it's moved into crypto

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Speaker 2: or moved offshore. So this is what they're really knuckling

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Speaker 2: down on at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and banks have got to step up, which you

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Speaker 1: mentioned in the story. Especially in the UK they've come

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Speaker 1: to the party, but in Australia we're still making behind

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Speaker 1: that one thing I noticed, I was going to say

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Speaker 1: when they mentioned when they got your AI and they

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Speaker 1: fooled you know, you're producing thinking it was you through AI.

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Speaker 1: That kind of technology is incredible too. So I would suggest,

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Speaker 1: having watched that, that if you get a call from

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Speaker 1: someone pretending to be somebody you know wanting money, have

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Speaker 1: a secret word or have a secret you know question,

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Speaker 1: that you can go you know, remember that time, only

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Speaker 1: they would know the answer to it, so that you

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Speaker 1: know you are actually speaking to a person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.

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Speaker 2: It's that thing now where Unfortunately, if anyone asked for

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Speaker 2: any of your person to detail on the phone, even

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Speaker 2: if it's your mum, You've got to question it because

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Speaker 2: you know, the company that did the scam with us,

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Speaker 2: cyber c X, was quite extraordinary. But they literally just

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Speaker 2: pulled my voice off the Internet and copied it, fed

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Speaker 2: it into a program.

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Speaker 3: And my very good colleague, Dad, who.

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Speaker 2: I work with every day did opposite each other, picked

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Speaker 2: up the phone, heard this pretend Amelia voice and absolutely

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Speaker 2: believed it was my He did it. To his credit,

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Speaker 2: I have to say, he couldn't hear the call very well,

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Speaker 2: so he hung up and he immediately texted me my

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Speaker 2: personal details.

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Speaker 3: So luckily they wouldn't you know, have gone to the scammer.

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Speaker 2: But it just went to show how easily someone, even

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Speaker 2: someone who you know, you close to or you work

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Speaker 2: closely with, will believe that is your voice, and of

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Speaker 2: course you're going to go, oh yeah, here's he's a

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Speaker 2: class at number and help them out, or even your

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Speaker 2: birthday like the information that they can access now.

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Speaker 3: With those numbers, it's just not worth it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, a terrific show on sixteen minutes. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for your time and listen, just do me

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Speaker 1: a favor. Just send me over your PIN number and

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Speaker 1: I'll sort you out with the receipt or have less

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Speaker 1: chat on the radio today.

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Speaker 2: You can you can drain my full thirty three dollars.

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Speaker 1: That's turty, Thanks so much, Amali Adams there from Merchant

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Speaker 1: of Line sixty minutes last night, an incredible.

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Speaker 4: Story on scamming.

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Speaker 1: You just got to be so careful me