WEBVTT - The foiled antisemitic attack, explained

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is this is the Daily OS. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>the thirty first of January.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

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<v Speaker 2>On Wednesday evening, New South Wales Premier Chris Mins and

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<v Speaker 2>police announced that a caravan full of explosives had been

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<v Speaker 2>found in northwest Sydney. At the press conference, Mins indicated

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<v Speaker 2>the explosives were intended to be used in an anti

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<v Speaker 2>Semitic attack, with multiple sources now reporting a note found

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<v Speaker 2>inside the caravan contained a list of addresses of Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>people and synagogues.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Zara, usually when we talk about an incident like this,

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<v Speaker 1>it's because it's happened in the last twenty four forty

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<v Speaker 1>eight hours. That's not the case with this story though, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, that's not what's happened. So let me just explain

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<v Speaker 2>what we know about this incident. So on Wednesday, as

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<v Speaker 2>I said, New South Wales Police announced that a caravan

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<v Speaker 2>filled with explosives had been found in Dural. Now that's

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<v Speaker 2>a suburb in Sydney's out of northwest. What happened was

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<v Speaker 2>a local resident saw this caravan parked in what they

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<v Speaker 2>described as a hazardous position, and so they moved that van.

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<v Speaker 2>They towed it to their property, and that was on

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteenth of January, so that's over ten days ago. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>When the resident looked inside the van once it was

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<v Speaker 2>on their property, they were very alarmed to see that

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<v Speaker 2>there were explosives inside and it was at that point,

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<v Speaker 2>on the nineteenth of January that they called police. The

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<v Speaker 2>explosives are believed to have been obtained from a mining site,

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<v Speaker 2>and when police were first running through this incident, they

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<v Speaker 2>were trying to explain how serious this was and the

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<v Speaker 2>harm that could have been caused had this explosion actually occurred.

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<v Speaker 2>So what police said was that these explosives were capable

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<v Speaker 2>of blasts up to forty meters in diameter, and the

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<v Speaker 2>premiere added that this could have caused a mass casualty event.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're not talking about something small here. We're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about a van full of explosives. Had they been detonated,

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<v Speaker 2>we could have seen a significant loss of life. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>as I said at the top, police are investigating whether

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<v Speaker 2>the caravan was going to be used in a targeted

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<v Speaker 2>anti Semitic attack.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's all because of the Noche that is being

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<v Speaker 1>reported as being found in the caravan.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, yes, so police themselves in the press conferences. There

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<v Speaker 2>have been now two press conferences where they've spoken about

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<v Speaker 2>this incident. They haven't explicitly spoken about this note, but

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<v Speaker 2>it has been described by a number of media outlets,

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<v Speaker 2>including the Daily Telegraph, who had all of the details

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<v Speaker 2>about this incident leaked to them. Now, all of these

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<v Speaker 2>reports cite a police source who said a note was

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<v Speaker 2>found inside the caravan that had the addresses of Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>community members and of a synagogue, and a synagogue is

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<v Speaker 2>a place of worship within Judaism. Now, as I said,

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<v Speaker 2>police haven't publicly verified this report, and we also don't

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<v Speaker 2>know the name of the synagogue that was written on

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<v Speaker 2>the note. What we have heard from Chris Mins is

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<v Speaker 2>that he says those behind the alleged planned attack were

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<v Speaker 2>bad people with bad ideologies, bad morals and bad ethics.

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<v Speaker 1>So this all happens ten days ago, but we're only

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<v Speaker 1>finding out about it now, which is quite unusual for

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<v Speaker 1>something like this. What do we know about what has

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<v Speaker 1>actually happens during this ten day period.

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<v Speaker 2>So we know that there's been an investigation ongoing during

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<v Speaker 2>that time. We know that the owner of the van

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<v Speaker 2>is already in custody, but interestingly they're in custody over

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<v Speaker 2>unrelated charges, so they haven't been arrested in connection to

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<v Speaker 2>this specific incident. However, they were already in custody and

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<v Speaker 2>are now being linked to this plot, so that person's

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<v Speaker 2>been arrested. Deputy Police Commissioner David Hudson said arrests have

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<v Speaker 2>been made on the periphery of the investigation. When pressed,

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't really elaborate, but from that we can just

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<v Speaker 2>understand that perhaps not the master or the central suspects,

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<v Speaker 2>but people peripherally connected to the case. Hudson said that

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<v Speaker 2>more than one hundred police officers are now part of

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<v Speaker 2>the investigation, that includes counter terrorism offices, national security agents

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<v Speaker 2>from Asia, and police from Victoria and Queensland, as well

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<v Speaker 2>as of course from New South Wales. Again, this just

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<v Speaker 2>goes to the heart of how severe and how significant

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<v Speaker 2>this plot was.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm really interested in this idea that the public wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>told about the discovery of the explosives until ten days

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<v Speaker 1>after the fact. Has that been coming up as a

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<v Speaker 1>talking point after this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's been a really dominant talking point. I do

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<v Speaker 2>just want to clarify, the only reason that we the

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<v Speaker 2>public know that something happened is because, as I said,

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<v Speaker 2>the information was leaked to the media, to the Daily Telegraph.

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<v Speaker 2>This was not meant to be made public at the

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<v Speaker 2>time that it was. That press conference that I referred

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<v Speaker 2>to earlier of Chrismins and the Assistant Police Commissioner getting

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<v Speaker 2>up and talking about this that was a lit minute thing.

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<v Speaker 2>That was only after the Daily Telegraph had published that

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<v Speaker 2>exclusive story about this incident, and then when there was

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<v Speaker 2>all of this media attention, they had no choice but

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<v Speaker 2>to get up and to explain what had happened, or

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<v Speaker 2>at least what they knew about what had happened. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>there are kind of two perspectives on this story, so

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to highlight first what the response from some

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish community groups has been to this as the group

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<v Speaker 2>that was allegedly going to be targeted in this attack

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<v Speaker 2>had it taken place. We heard yesterday from the Executive

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<v Speaker 2>Council of Australia Jury co CEO Peter Wertheim, and he's

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<v Speaker 2>of the belief that the Jewish community should have known

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<v Speaker 2>about this threat much earlier than they did. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>I think they should have told us earlier because the

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<v Speaker 2>impact on the community then could have been managed, we

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<v Speaker 2>could have understood better what we are facing. There are

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes very good operational reasons for keeping an investigation secret,

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<v Speaker 2>but that has to be balanced against other considerations. So there,

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<v Speaker 2>he's really talking about the fact that the Jewish community

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<v Speaker 2>finding out, or at Leastwish community leaders finding out about

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<v Speaker 2>this at the same time as everyone else did, meant

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<v Speaker 2>that they didn't have the answers when concerned community members

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<v Speaker 2>were asking them, or you know, no one really knew anything.

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<v Speaker 2>The other argument that's been made here is that a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of Jewish community members who regularly attend synagogue feel

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<v Speaker 2>like they should have known if there was going to

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<v Speaker 2>be an active threat made against them, and that knowledge

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<v Speaker 2>of this incident might have changed their behaviors and whether

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<v Speaker 2>or not they attended synagogue for example, last weekend.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that's a bit of a snapshot of how

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish community groups and members feel about the delay and

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<v Speaker 1>the release of information. Then, on the other side of things,

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<v Speaker 1>you have the new South Wales police rationale though.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly so. Essentially the rationale provided by police is

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<v Speaker 2>that this investigation was kept secret for a reason and

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<v Speaker 2>that this information was withheld in order to successfully execute

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<v Speaker 2>this investigation. So we heard yesterday from Police Commissioner Karen

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<v Speaker 2>Webb who said that now that that information has been

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<v Speaker 2>made public and now that we are talking about this,

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<v Speaker 2>she believes that part of the investigation has been compromised,

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<v Speaker 2>so that has materially affected the investigation and specifically, she

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<v Speaker 2>said it's been detrimental to some of the strategies police

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<v Speaker 2>may have used otherwise. Now, in terms of the investigation itself,

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not it's compromised is a matter for police,

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<v Speaker 2>but they haven't officially declared the event as a terrorist

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<v Speaker 2>incident yet. Now this is a legal term in New

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<v Speaker 2>South Wales. Once an incident is classified as terrorism, police

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<v Speaker 2>have the power to search people and properties without a

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<v Speaker 2>warrant within a certain number of days and within certain areas.

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<v Speaker 2>That said, while there hasn't been this formal classification at

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<v Speaker 2>the time of recording, Chris Mins has described the incident

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<v Speaker 2>as terrorism very clearly, and the Prime Minister, Anthony Alberizi

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<v Speaker 2>has also told ABC Radio that he agrees that this

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<v Speaker 2>is terrorism.

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<v Speaker 1>So this investigation is ongoing. We have people of interest

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<v Speaker 1>early on police radar, some in custody, some not have

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<v Speaker 1>police said anything about the ongoing threats to not just

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<v Speaker 1>the Jewish community but the wider community.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So police were very clear, very explicit. At the

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<v Speaker 2>beginning of the press conference, they said there is no

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<v Speaker 2>ongoing threat to the community, the broader Australian community that

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<v Speaker 2>is in relation to this specific incident. However, it would

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<v Speaker 2>be remiss of us not to mention this latest incident

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<v Speaker 2>in the context of a broader spike in anti Semitic

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<v Speaker 2>incidents and violence that we've seen across not just New

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<v Speaker 2>South Wales but also Victoria in recent months. Within just

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<v Speaker 2>twelve hours of the announcement of this caravan, anti Semitic

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<v Speaker 2>graffiti was discovered in three parts of Sydney's East. In Maruba,

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<v Speaker 2>there was anti Semitic graffiti sprayed on Mount Sinai, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a Jewish primary school, and that school begins classes

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<v Speaker 2>for the year this week. And a lot of what

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Minds was saying yesterday morning about this was that

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<v Speaker 2>there are going to be students walk looking in to school,

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<v Speaker 2>primary school students who are seeing you know, profanities and

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<v Speaker 2>deeply offensive hate speech written on their school walls. It's

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<v Speaker 2>also important tonight that Mount Sinai is near a childcare

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<v Speaker 2>center that was firebombed earlier this month, so there is

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<v Speaker 2>also a geographical element to the fact that a number

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<v Speaker 2>of these incidents have now happened in the same area.

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<v Speaker 1>This is obviously a series of very shocking events, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think I want to end this podcast by talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the Jewish community's response to this. You took me

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<v Speaker 1>through the comments made by one of the Jewish community

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<v Speaker 1>leaders about whether he felt that the Jewish community should

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<v Speaker 1>have known or not in this ten day period, but

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<v Speaker 1>I want to go back to some of the comments

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<v Speaker 1>he said about the impact of this event on the community.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Chrismin said that this could have been a

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<v Speaker 1>mass casualty event. It marks a severe escalation in the

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<v Speaker 1>state of anti Semitism, particularly in Sydney. How has the

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish community responded.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that it's fair to say there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of different emotions. Obviously, no one group is homogeneous, and

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't want to ever speak for an entire community here,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think what Peter Wertheim was describing in this

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<v Speaker 2>press conference was that there's a lot of concern, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of fear, and there's also a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>anger that this is happening at the rate and the

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<v Speaker 2>frequency that it is. So here's a bit from that

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<v Speaker 2>press conference.

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<v Speaker 3>We're angry because we are seeing that the Australia that

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<v Speaker 3>we have been fortunate enough to live in ourselves, a

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<v Speaker 3>land of freedom, fair mindedness, civilized norms of behavior and

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<v Speaker 3>the rule of law, is starting to slip away from us.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's end quickly on just a quick reaction from the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian political spectrum. Take me through the sense that you

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<v Speaker 1>get from both sides of policies here.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean pretty universal condemnation. The same type of

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<v Speaker 2>language is being used, you know, horror, shock, things of

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<v Speaker 2>that nature. The coalition is really questioning the delay in

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<v Speaker 2>making that information public. There are Jewish MPs from both

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<v Speaker 2>major parties. So Julian Lisa, who is a Liberal MP

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<v Speaker 2>whose electorate covers Dural where the caravan was found, he

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<v Speaker 2>said that he was deeply disturbed by the reports. And

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<v Speaker 2>on the other side of politics, Josh Burns, Labor MP

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<v Speaker 2>in the seat of McNamara, he called the threat extremely,

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<v Speaker 2>extremely frightening. So I think, yeah, a lot of that

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<v Speaker 2>same language being used there by the political leaders as

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<v Speaker 2>well as community leaders.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it has to be said that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot that we don't know about this investigation, as repeated

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<v Speaker 1>numerous times by New South Wales' Premier Chrismins and the

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<v Speaker 1>police officials that we've heard from in the last forty

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<v Speaker 1>eight hours. Zarah, thank you for that update on what

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<v Speaker 1>we know so far, and thank you for joining us

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<v Speaker 1>on a zlios this morning. It's been a huge week

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<v Speaker 1>of news. Thank you for coming along for it. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>be back this afternoon with some headlines and then a

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<v Speaker 1>good news episode tomorrow morning. My name is Lily Madden

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Argodin woman from Gadighl Country.

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<v Speaker 3>The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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<v Speaker 3>the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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<v Speaker 3>all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our

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<v Speaker 3>respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past

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<v Speaker 3>and present.