1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily OS. This 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: is the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 2: the thirty first of January. 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 2: On Wednesday evening, New South Wales Premier Chris Mins and 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: police announced that a caravan full of explosives had been 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: found in northwest Sydney. At the press conference, Mins indicated 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: the explosives were intended to be used in an anti 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: Semitic attack, with multiple sources now reporting a note found 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: inside the caravan contained a list of addresses of Jewish 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: people and synagogues. 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: So, Zara, usually when we talk about an incident like this, 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: it's because it's happened in the last twenty four forty 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: eight hours. That's not the case with this story though, right. 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: Now, that's not what's happened. So let me just explain 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: what we know about this incident. So on Wednesday, as 18 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: I said, New South Wales Police announced that a caravan 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: filled with explosives had been found in Dural. Now that's 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: a suburb in Sydney's out of northwest. What happened was 21 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: a local resident saw this caravan parked in what they 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: described as a hazardous position, and so they moved that van. 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: They towed it to their property, and that was on 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: the nineteenth of January, so that's over ten days ago. Now. 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: When the resident looked inside the van once it was 26 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: on their property, they were very alarmed to see that 27 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 2: there were explosives inside and it was at that point, 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 2: on the nineteenth of January that they called police. The 29 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 2: explosives are believed to have been obtained from a mining site, 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: and when police were first running through this incident, they 31 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: were trying to explain how serious this was and the 32 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: harm that could have been caused had this explosion actually occurred. 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: So what police said was that these explosives were capable 34 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: of blasts up to forty meters in diameter, and the 35 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: premiere added that this could have caused a mass casualty event. 36 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: So we're not talking about something small here. We're talking 37 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: about a van full of explosives. Had they been detonated, 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: we could have seen a significant loss of life. Now, 39 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: as I said at the top, police are investigating whether 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: the caravan was going to be used in a targeted 41 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: anti Semitic attack. 42 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: And that's all because of the Noche that is being 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: reported as being found in the caravan. 44 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: Right, yes, so police themselves in the press conferences. There 45 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: have been now two press conferences where they've spoken about 46 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: this incident. They haven't explicitly spoken about this note, but 47 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: it has been described by a number of media outlets, 48 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: including the Daily Telegraph, who had all of the details 49 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: about this incident leaked to them. Now, all of these 50 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: reports cite a police source who said a note was 51 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: found inside the caravan that had the addresses of Jewish 52 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: community members and of a synagogue, and a synagogue is 53 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 2: a place of worship within Judaism. Now, as I said, 54 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: police haven't publicly verified this report, and we also don't 55 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: know the name of the synagogue that was written on 56 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: the note. What we have heard from Chris Mins is 57 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: that he says those behind the alleged planned attack were 58 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 2: bad people with bad ideologies, bad morals and bad ethics. 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: So this all happens ten days ago, but we're only 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: finding out about it now, which is quite unusual for 61 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: something like this. What do we know about what has 62 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: actually happens during this ten day period. 63 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: So we know that there's been an investigation ongoing during 64 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: that time. We know that the owner of the van 65 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: is already in custody, but interestingly they're in custody over 66 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: unrelated charges, so they haven't been arrested in connection to 67 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: this specific incident. However, they were already in custody and 68 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: are now being linked to this plot, so that person's 69 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: been arrested. Deputy Police Commissioner David Hudson said arrests have 70 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: been made on the periphery of the investigation. When pressed, 71 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: he didn't really elaborate, but from that we can just 72 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: understand that perhaps not the master or the central suspects, 73 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: but people peripherally connected to the case. Hudson said that 74 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: more than one hundred police officers are now part of 75 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: the investigation, that includes counter terrorism offices, national security agents 76 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: from Asia, and police from Victoria and Queensland, as well 77 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 2: as of course from New South Wales. Again, this just 78 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: goes to the heart of how severe and how significant 79 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 2: this plot was. 80 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: I'm really interested in this idea that the public wasn't 81 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: told about the discovery of the explosives until ten days 82 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: after the fact. Has that been coming up as a 83 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: talking point after this. 84 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's been a really dominant talking point. I do 85 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: just want to clarify, the only reason that we the 86 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 2: public know that something happened is because, as I said, 87 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: the information was leaked to the media, to the Daily Telegraph. 88 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: This was not meant to be made public at the 89 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: time that it was. That press conference that I referred 90 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: to earlier of Chrismins and the Assistant Police Commissioner getting 91 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: up and talking about this that was a lit minute thing. 92 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 2: That was only after the Daily Telegraph had published that 93 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: exclusive story about this incident, and then when there was 94 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 2: all of this media attention, they had no choice but 95 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: to get up and to explain what had happened, or 96 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: at least what they knew about what had happened. Now, 97 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: there are kind of two perspectives on this story, so 98 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: I'm going to highlight first what the response from some 99 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 2: Jewish community groups has been to this as the group 100 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: that was allegedly going to be targeted in this attack 101 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: had it taken place. We heard yesterday from the Executive 102 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: Council of Australia Jury co CEO Peter Wertheim, and he's 103 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: of the belief that the Jewish community should have known 104 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: about this threat much earlier than they did. He said, 105 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 2: I think they should have told us earlier because the 106 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 2: impact on the community then could have been managed, we 107 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: could have understood better what we are facing. There are 108 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 2: sometimes very good operational reasons for keeping an investigation secret, 109 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: but that has to be balanced against other considerations. So there, 110 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: he's really talking about the fact that the Jewish community 111 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: finding out, or at Leastwish community leaders finding out about 112 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: this at the same time as everyone else did, meant 113 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: that they didn't have the answers when concerned community members 114 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: were asking them, or you know, no one really knew anything. 115 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: The other argument that's been made here is that a 116 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: lot of Jewish community members who regularly attend synagogue feel 117 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: like they should have known if there was going to 118 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: be an active threat made against them, and that knowledge 119 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: of this incident might have changed their behaviors and whether 120 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: or not they attended synagogue for example, last weekend. 121 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a bit of a snapshot of how 122 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: Jewish community groups and members feel about the delay and 123 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: the release of information. Then, on the other side of things, 124 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: you have the new South Wales police rationale though. 125 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly so. Essentially the rationale provided by police is 126 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: that this investigation was kept secret for a reason and 127 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: that this information was withheld in order to successfully execute 128 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: this investigation. So we heard yesterday from Police Commissioner Karen 129 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: Webb who said that now that that information has been 130 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: made public and now that we are talking about this, 131 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: she believes that part of the investigation has been compromised, 132 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: so that has materially affected the investigation and specifically, she 133 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: said it's been detrimental to some of the strategies police 134 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: may have used otherwise. Now, in terms of the investigation itself, 135 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: whether or not it's compromised is a matter for police, 136 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: but they haven't officially declared the event as a terrorist 137 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: incident yet. Now this is a legal term in New 138 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: South Wales. Once an incident is classified as terrorism, police 139 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: have the power to search people and properties without a 140 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: warrant within a certain number of days and within certain areas. 141 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: That said, while there hasn't been this formal classification at 142 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: the time of recording, Chris Mins has described the incident 143 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: as terrorism very clearly, and the Prime Minister, Anthony Alberizi 144 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: has also told ABC Radio that he agrees that this 145 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: is terrorism. 146 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: So this investigation is ongoing. We have people of interest 147 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: early on police radar, some in custody, some not have 148 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: police said anything about the ongoing threats to not just 149 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: the Jewish community but the wider community. 150 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. So police were very clear, very explicit. At the 151 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 2: beginning of the press conference, they said there is no 152 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: ongoing threat to the community, the broader Australian community that 153 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: is in relation to this specific incident. However, it would 154 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: be remiss of us not to mention this latest incident 155 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: in the context of a broader spike in anti Semitic 156 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: incidents and violence that we've seen across not just New 157 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: South Wales but also Victoria in recent months. Within just 158 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: twelve hours of the announcement of this caravan, anti Semitic 159 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: graffiti was discovered in three parts of Sydney's East. In Maruba, 160 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: there was anti Semitic graffiti sprayed on Mount Sinai, which 161 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: is a Jewish primary school, and that school begins classes 162 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 2: for the year this week. And a lot of what 163 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: Chris Minds was saying yesterday morning about this was that 164 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: there are going to be students walk looking in to school, 165 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: primary school students who are seeing you know, profanities and 166 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 2: deeply offensive hate speech written on their school walls. It's 167 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: also important tonight that Mount Sinai is near a childcare 168 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 2: center that was firebombed earlier this month, so there is 169 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: also a geographical element to the fact that a number 170 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: of these incidents have now happened in the same area. 171 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: This is obviously a series of very shocking events, and 172 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: I think I want to end this podcast by talking 173 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: about the Jewish community's response to this. You took me 174 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: through the comments made by one of the Jewish community 175 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: leaders about whether he felt that the Jewish community should 176 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: have known or not in this ten day period, but 177 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: I want to go back to some of the comments 178 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,239 Speaker 1: he said about the impact of this event on the community. 179 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: I mean, Chrismin said that this could have been a 180 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: mass casualty event. It marks a severe escalation in the 181 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: state of anti Semitism, particularly in Sydney. How has the 182 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: Jewish community responded. 183 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 2: I think that it's fair to say there's a lot 184 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 2: of different emotions. Obviously, no one group is homogeneous, and 185 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to ever speak for an entire community here, 186 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 2: but I think what Peter Wertheim was describing in this 187 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: press conference was that there's a lot of concern, there's 188 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: a lot of fear, and there's also a lot of 189 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: anger that this is happening at the rate and the 190 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: frequency that it is. So here's a bit from that 191 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: press conference. 192 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 3: We're angry because we are seeing that the Australia that 193 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 3: we have been fortunate enough to live in ourselves, a 194 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: land of freedom, fair mindedness, civilized norms of behavior and 195 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 3: the rule of law, is starting to slip away from us. 196 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: Let's end quickly on just a quick reaction from the 197 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: Australian political spectrum. Take me through the sense that you 198 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: get from both sides of policies here. 199 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 2: Well, I mean pretty universal condemnation. The same type of 200 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: language is being used, you know, horror, shock, things of 201 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: that nature. The coalition is really questioning the delay in 202 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: making that information public. There are Jewish MPs from both 203 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: major parties. So Julian Lisa, who is a Liberal MP 204 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: whose electorate covers Dural where the caravan was found, he 205 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: said that he was deeply disturbed by the reports. And 206 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: on the other side of politics, Josh Burns, Labor MP 207 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 2: in the seat of McNamara, he called the threat extremely, 208 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: extremely frightening. So I think, yeah, a lot of that 209 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 2: same language being used there by the political leaders as 210 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: well as community leaders. 211 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: I think it has to be said that there's a 212 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: lot that we don't know about this investigation, as repeated 213 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: numerous times by New South Wales' Premier Chrismins and the 214 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: police officials that we've heard from in the last forty 215 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: eight hours. Zarah, thank you for that update on what 216 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: we know so far, and thank you for joining us 217 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: on a zlios this morning. It's been a huge week 218 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: of news. Thank you for coming along for it. We'll 219 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: be back this afternoon with some headlines and then a 220 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: good news episode tomorrow morning. My name is Lily Madden 221 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Argodin woman from Gadighl Country. 222 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 3: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 223 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 3: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 224 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 3: all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our 225 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past 226 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: and present.