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Speaker 1: We are now going to head across and catch up

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Speaker 1: with the Police Association President Paul mchughue. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Paul, Morning Katie here. Are you going?

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Speaker 1: Not too bad now? Paul? Obviously are we organized to

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Speaker 1: have you on the show this morning to talk about

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Speaker 1: the legislation that the COLP is proposing on mandatory sentencing.

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Speaker 1: Before we get there, though, as I'm sure you have

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Speaker 1: just heard Matt Cunningham from Sky News, he and another

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Speaker 1: journalist have written the story which is on the front

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Speaker 1: page of The Australian Today, where it's been reported that

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Speaker 1: the police notes obtained by The Australian show that senior

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Speaker 1: police executives, including mister Chalker, met in Deputy Commissioner Michael

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Speaker 1: White's office at three point thirty four on November thirteen,

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Speaker 1: the afternoon that Constable Rolf was charged with the murder

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Speaker 1: of Indigenous man cooman Ji Walker. I'm sure you've heard

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Speaker 1: the other detail that we have discussed, Paul. Does this

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Speaker 1: strengthen those calls for an independent inquiry to take place?

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Speaker 2: You know, obviously the meeting that took place that's been

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Speaker 2: referred to in that article is obviously out of notes

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Speaker 2: produced through the trial and look, no doubt, only those

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Speaker 2: that were involved in that meeting can really advise anyone

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Speaker 2: what took place in that meeting and what was said

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Speaker 2: and what decisions came out of that. So I guess

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Speaker 2: until we really know that, it's really speculation about what

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Speaker 2: may have taken place in those meetings. But obviously many

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Speaker 2: of the detectives involved have taken notes and about some

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Speaker 2: of the processes in there. But obviously it continues that

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Speaker 2: perception out there in the public public domain and to

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Speaker 2: a certain extent through some of the membership, that the

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Speaker 2: correct process may not have been followed. But you know,

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Speaker 2: until and that really is why we on the fourteenth

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Speaker 2: of March came out and made a statement around the

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Speaker 2: fact that that process needs to be interrogated because obviously

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Speaker 2: those questions currently exist today.

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Speaker 1: Still, Paul, from your perspective, where to from here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously, you know we've got to wait and see. Look,

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Speaker 2: there's no doubt the OKAK commissions come out and said

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Speaker 2: he's potentially going to look into it. Obviously, were're still

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Speaker 2: getting around to our membership to find out how they're

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Speaker 2: feeling and the many questions they have. And of course,

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Speaker 2: until we really can delve into those meetings and delve

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Speaker 2: into the reasons behind those decisions that were made in

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Speaker 2: that critical forty eight hours seventy two hours after the

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Speaker 2: shooting took place. To really find out what occurred and

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Speaker 2: how that occurred. It's really speculation, and I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: certainly continues our call and obviously the tech detectives notes

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Speaker 2: that have been put out there and those detectives that

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Speaker 2: were concerned about the speed this all took place really

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Speaker 2: strengthens the need and certainly our commentary around the interrogation

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Speaker 2: of that decision making process and an explanation for it.

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Speaker 2: So you know, from here we need to find out

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Speaker 2: if the KACS are guess going to proceed with that,

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Speaker 2: but some form certainly of an open inquirer in terms

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Speaker 2: of making sure the public app confidence in our police

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Speaker 2: then that decision making process.

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Speaker 1: Paul, let's move along because we know that the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association has welcomed the announcement from the CLP

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Speaker 1: on proposed Mandatory Sentencing Law Reform Bill which is going

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Speaker 1: to be introduced in Parliament this week, which if passed,

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Speaker 1: it would strengthen penalties for assaults on Northern territory police officers.

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Speaker 1: Why do you reckon this is needed? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, each year, Katie, we stand up at annual conference

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Speaker 2: and we address our delegates and every year when we

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Speaker 2: speak to them, this is a very significant concern for

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Speaker 2: police out there on the front line. And obviously it

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Speaker 2: relates to frontline work is generally as well. But you know,

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Speaker 2: for years we've been saying that the laws aren't strong

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Speaker 2: enough around sentencing to protect our frontline police officers. And

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Speaker 2: you know, really a survey from last year really highlights

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Speaker 2: and some really concerning figures, Katie, in terms of the

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Speaker 2: amount of police that are getting a sould at each day,

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Speaker 2: the amount of injuries they're copying, including hospitalization, and you know,

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Speaker 2: strengthening these laws is certainly a positive step in the

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Speaker 2: right direction from our perspective.

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Speaker 1: Well, Paul, even last week, you know, we heard about

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Speaker 1: officer who was kicked in the head while attending a

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Speaker 1: domestic violence incident. At what rate are incidents like this

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Speaker 1: happening two police officers?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, we know year on year an average around

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Speaker 2: two hundred and forty five assaults on police are taking place.

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Speaker 2: Many of those, as we've discovered through our research, you know,

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Speaker 2: show that people are being Our members are being as

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Speaker 2: solded up to three times a year, and fifty percent

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Speaker 2: of those are suffering some form of harm or violence,

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Speaker 2: and many of those are being spat on or bitten.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is really increasing the severity of these attacks.

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Speaker 2: And sadly, more often than not, many of these people

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Speaker 2: go to court get a slap on the wrists and

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Speaker 2: off they gave because you know, they were drunk at

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Speaker 2: the time, or they you know, there's other factors that

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Speaker 2: the court take into account. Well, I'm sorry. It is

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Speaker 2: time to put the protection of our police front and center.

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Speaker 2: Frontline workers are out there keeping us safe, and this

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Speaker 2: has to be above politics. This is very much about

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Speaker 2: protecting our people and our police officers that are looking

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Speaker 2: up to us, and it's about time we made some

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Speaker 2: strong laws around this.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the typical consequences which are handed

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Speaker 1: down to offenders from your perspective, from some of those

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Speaker 1: cases that you've seen go through the courts, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and is it very different to what we would see

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Speaker 1: in a case of I guess a regular person being assaulted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, at the moment as it stands under the

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Speaker 2: Sentencing Act, it really takes quite a severe assault on

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Speaker 2: one of our police officers for somebody to have any

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Speaker 2: form of detentional or incarceration as a consequence. And yet,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's actually stronger laws for the general public.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that the general public is any

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Speaker 2: less important, but police and frontline workers are putting themselves

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Speaker 2: in harms way every day, and yet how on earth

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Speaker 2: can we have laws that are as strong as the

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Speaker 2: general public incarceration laws. So it's really about looking after

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Speaker 2: our people that are out there looking after us, and

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Speaker 2: if we're not prepared to do that, what are we

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Speaker 2: here for. This is community expectation in my view.

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Speaker 1: Well, what is the impact on police officers when someone

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Speaker 1: has given a suspended sentence or they put on a

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Speaker 1: good behavior bond after they've been subjected to quite a

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Speaker 1: bad assault.

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Speaker 2: Well, quite often we follow many of these cases through

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Speaker 2: the court process, and you know, some of our members

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Speaker 2: are just extremely dejected that it affects their longevity in

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Speaker 2: the job, that a vets their mental health. Their family

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Speaker 2: are concerned obviously when they come home with severe injuries,

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Speaker 2: and then they sit there and see somebody go through

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Speaker 2: the court process and get a slap on the rest

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Speaker 2: and walk out the door. Now, those officers may have

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Speaker 2: been bitten, may have been spat at, and they don't

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Speaker 2: know if they've contracted a communicable disease or anything of

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Speaker 2: that nature. And yet they sit there and see these

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Speaker 2: people walk away almost scott free, and it really affects

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Speaker 2: them around and affects the ability to make sure we're

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Speaker 2: keeping out people safe on the front line.

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Speaker 1: Paul, just before I let you go, have you heard

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Speaker 1: anything from the Labor government at this point in time

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Speaker 1: as to whether they are going to support this bill.

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Speaker 1: I know that the Health Minister had said to us

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Speaker 1: earlier on the show that they will look at the

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Speaker 1: legislation that is put forward. Yesterday afternoon, i'd seen on

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Speaker 1: nine News she was much stronger in saying that they

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Speaker 1: that you know, it was a complex issue. Today she'd

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Speaker 1: certainly tempered those comments.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, look, certainly, I mean, obviously this is

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Speaker 2: it'll be disappointing if this isn't supported. I know when

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Speaker 2: people talk about mandatory sentencing laws, it does frighten people.

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Speaker 2: But you know, let's have a serious conversation about this.

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Speaker 2: Because we know the government have been working on a

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Speaker 2: assaults working group for frontline workers, but it has stalled.

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Speaker 2: This is an opportunity for politics to be set aside

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Speaker 2: and support our police and our frontline workers, and that's

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Speaker 2: a huge improvement from our perspective.

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Speaker 1: Well Police Association President Paul Mchew, we always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much and we'll chat to you soon.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, Chief, thank you.