WEBVTT - THE TINDER SWINDLER - Uncut with Cecilie and Pernilla 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.439 Hi, guys, and I're welcome back to another episode of 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.200 Life Uncut. I'm Laura and I'm Brittany, and holy dick, 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:28.440 we have an episode for you today. Holy dick. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:33.040 I mean it's better than Pickle Nicole. We've updated, Holy dick. Okay, 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:33.959 let's roll with that. 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.280 Well, I mean we've been teasing this episode for like 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.640 I mean it's literally three days. Yeah, I mean like 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.040 maybe like a week, I guess. But we have the 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.960 two women from Tinder Swindler joining us, Cecilia and Panilla, 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.400 to share their story. I think it. 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.600 Feels like it's been teased for a while because we 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.800 got the confirmation that the girls were going to do 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:53.680 the interview with us, so they hadn't done an interview 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.440 here like that before, and we were so excited, but 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.440 we know better than ever the until something's actually been done, 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.600 until something signed on the dotted line, anything would happen. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.760 So we're super excited by the prospect, but we didn't 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.640 all want to rave too much about it until we 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.120 got them and we did speak to them. It is today, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.880 and we're so excited to bring you this chap. But 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:14.279 we'll get into that in a hot second. 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.560 Laura you've been making some rounds of the neighborhood. Is 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.720 that correct? Guys, Making friends as an adult is really 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.160 really hard. Why do you hard? But why do you 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.440 need another friend? Yeah? But I also need friends that 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.280 have kids, and more so, my kids need friends. It's 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.920 probably more the case. But you know, as you guys 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:33.800 all are very aware if you've listened to the podcast. 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.479 Literally over the last month, I've moved into a new neighborhood. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:38.520 I have new neighbors, and yes. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.400 It generally happens when you move into a new neighbor 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.560 We don't live on an acreage. And now I have 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.120 your old neighbors. Mine new neighbors are your old neighbors. 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.520 Yeah. So BRIT's new neighbors is a lovely Russian couple. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.040 They're like in there, maybe sixties, seventies, I don't know. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.320 I can't guess. He's already popped over to fix some 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.720 stuff for me. He's an absolute legend. He's like the 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.320 sort of man. He's a sort of neighbor that you 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.440 want when you need things done. Well, I didn't even 0:01:59.440 --> 0:01:59.920 know I needed it. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:01.960 Okay, I went outside and there was one little thing 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.000 that was broken, right, And I went outside just to 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.000 look at it, and within two seconds he was there. 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.200 He just popped up, Like what was that old TV 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.840 show where you never see that you know, the neighbor. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.480 Like Flanders, No, you know that really popular show. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:14.840 This is all the youngins are not going to know. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:16.799 You know where he used to pop Tim the toll 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.519 Man Taylor. I seriously felt like we were playing a 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:19.480 game of charades, right, do. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.400 You know Tim the tool Man Taylor? 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.560 Oh my god, you never watched it, and you never 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.679 in like six years of the show, you never saw 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:27.639 the neighbor's whole face. You only ever saw his eyes, 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:28.480 but you always popped up. 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.320 When you needed him. Not our Russian neighbor, though you 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.360 see all his face. Anyway, he fixed some stuff. Well, okay, 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.240 so I went over to our neighbor's house. We took 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.239 the kids. We took two bottles of wine, which I 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.440 thought was maybe aggressive for four o'clock in the afternoon. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:41.840 I was like, do you go with one bottle or 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.240 do you really like set in for an afternoon session 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:45.959 with your neighbors, or do I take a cask? Because 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.400 we took two bottles of wine a cheese plate, and 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.640 how did this invitation come about? Did like they put 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.359 a little invite in your letter box, did you put 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:52.919 it in theirs? 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:53.280 No? 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.280 So Matt met the neighbors on the street like when 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.280 we first moved in, and to be fair, we live 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.680 in a very it's a very community street, which is 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:03.840 weird to me because I didn't think that people these 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.440 days even spoke to their neighbors like and no, it's weird, 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.600 Like I lived in an apartment building where hardly anyone 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.440 knows each other prior and then we moved into the 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.239 new house and the neighbors popped over with a bunch 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.840 of flowers. The ones across the street have asked us 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.160 out for a lunch anyway, So there's like, guys, I 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:20.639 love you, but I don't have time for this. There's 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.480 a street WhatsApp group. No, it's amazing. There's literally a 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.799 street WhatsApp group and everyone has kids. So it's kind 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:27.880 of like, I really feel like I've found my people. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.240 And I was like, okay, we're going for lunch. So 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.320 we rocked out with these two bottles of wine, sat 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.320 down and it's just it's okay. I don't know if 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.200 I'm the only person. I'm sure i'm not, but it's 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.200 just so weird as an adult knowing that you're meeting 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.360 someone and being like, are we gonna be friends? 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:42.680 Like? 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:43.680 Is that what this is? 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:44.680 Like? 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:46.920 You're interviewing someone to be your friend? That's what we 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:48.640 were doing. I hope I made the cut. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.440 IF's if she's listening? How do she know who you are? 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:53.600 And you need the podcast? 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.600 No idea? She had no idea. I was like in media, like, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.440 I've got a podcast, like and they were like, oh, yeah, 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.280 we're not into culture and I was like, that's cool, 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.680 I send you a link talk about relationships. Yeah. No, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.200 she had no idea, which is kind of nice. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.600 The same age bracket kids are the same a little bit. 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.440 Older kids are like seven and ten. I'm giving way 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:16.520 too much information now, but yes, it was just it 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.120 was one of those moments where I felt like, as 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.560 an adult, it's not that often where you get put 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.160 into a situation where you actually are like, Okay, are 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:25.120 we going to be friends? Am I making a new 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.279 friend right now? And it's so hard. 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.599 Being an adult is hard, and making friends as an 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.080 adult is hard, And you know, we talk about it 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:32.400 on the podcast a lot, and we get a lot 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.200 of questions from you guys. Saying, you know, I need 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:35.960 to make new friends. 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:36.640 How do I do it? 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.320 Which is, you know, we've got these groups now, these 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.159 meetup groups that you guys have created, and so many 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.159 people have made insanely good friends from that, which I'm 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:44.680 all about. 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:46.800 But you also just have to take a punt, right, Like, 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.400 we had no idea whether we would connect, Like obviously 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.160 we have kids, we live in the same street, that's 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.200 all we knew about each other. And so you have 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.400 to put yourself out there, you know, you invite people 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.360 around you go and do things that are outside your 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.000 comfort zone and maybe it'll click, maybe it won't clear. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:01.800 But it was just like this real moment where I 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:02.880 was like, this is what adults do. 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.280 I think it's way easier to make friends when you 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.440 have kids one hundred pcent because you have something to 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.240 you have an excuse to meet up, and then if 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.120 you click, it's great. You can say, oh, let's continue 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:12.839 to meet up, and if you don't, you like, we're 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.680 busy forever kids. 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:17.320 Sorry, Yeah, exactly. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.040 So it's like a woman when I look at back 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.280 at actually my best friend of my whole existence. We've 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.400 been best friends since we were five years old, since kindergarten. 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.080 You guys do the math. So I think I'm thirty 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.279 five this year. Let me take that back. I'm still 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:29.719 thirty four. 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.680 I love that. Like Daily Mail always reports that you're 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.760 thirty and they say that I'm thirty seven, literally almost 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.440 the same. I've read that you No, I read nine 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.039 yesterday you were thirty one. I meant to send it 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:43.160 to you. Yeah, you lost a few about fucking time. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:45.520 So her and I've been best friends since we're five 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.240 years old, and our parents obviously met because of us, like, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:50.960 you know, let's have a playdate with our two kids, 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.200 and then because of us, they've been best friends their 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.839 entire life as well. So it is definitely an intro 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.640 into a friendship. So if you are looking for a 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.800 new friendship and you don't have kids, kids, maybe that's 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:01.240 your problem. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:03.320 Go have some kids, Go make some friends. No, because 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:04.680 when you have kids, all you then do is hang 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.599 around and complain about your kids. It was a joke. 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.839 Don't do it. I'm speaking of making friends though, Britt. 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:11.839 I heard that you also made some friends this week. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.919 I made friend It was pretty funny. So I was 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:15.600 on the Gold Coast. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.400 It was like my last night on the Gold Coast 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.360 and I was out with my sister and a couple 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.800 of friends. We're having some dreams. Were in Burley and 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.400 the Burly Pavilion, you know that really cool big I 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.359 don't know, I'm not cool and I'm not from Queensland. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:27.400 But it was all at the path. 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:28.120 Do you know what. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:32.120 Yeah, it's like icebergs. It's like their version of our icebergs, 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.640 I guess. Anyway, having a great time, having a few drinks, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.000 very sober, and this girl walks up to me and 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:39.880 she's on a mission and she's with a friend and 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.839 she comes up to me and she's obviously very intoxicated. 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:44.719 She's like, all right, I've been. 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:46.719 Looking at you across the room for a very long 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:48.479 time and I just had to come up. I wasn't 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:49.520 gonna do it, but I had to come up and 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.480 say hello. And I love the podcast. And I was like, oh, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.760 thank you so much, like I absolutely love hearing that. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.960 She's like, honestly, I cannot tell you. 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:58.560 She was going on and on and I was my 0:06:58.640 --> 0:06:59.479 best compliment ever. 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.600 And I was like, this is brilliant. And then her 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:02.960 friend goes, why do't you tell her what you wanted 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.320 to tell? Her, and I was like, oh no. In 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.359 my head, I thought, I was like what And she 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.040 looked at her friend. You know, when your friend's throwing 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:10.600 you under the bus. She looked at her friend. She's like, 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.320 don't you dare And her friend's like, just tell her, 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:16.840 just tell her, tell her what you were googling? And 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:18.920 I was like, heng and what were we googling? And 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:20.480 I was like tell me, and she was beside herself. 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.080 She's like, please don't like Sarah, please please, please don't 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.360 do this to me. And I said just tell me, 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:27.680 and she wouldn't tell me. So the friend pulls up 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.280 Google shows it to me and it said is Brittany 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:37.480 Hockley By. She showed me and the girl lily died 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.080 and I absolutely lost it. 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.400 And she's like, Okay, secrets out. I'm by. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.680 I was really hoping, She's like, I was really hoping 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.559 there might be some article that said you're into women 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.720 that I might have a chance. Anyway, I absolutely lost it. 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.080 She's like, I just thought you just made me feel 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.040 so comfortable all the time, and I want to make 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.800 you feel comfortable too. She's like, you make me feel 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.320 so like loved and comfortable and not alone. And I said, look, 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:02.160 I'm never going to go down on you, but I 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.520 will continue to make you feel comfortable on the podcast. 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:06.960 Can we just say, like, for every person who's ever 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.040 come up and introduced themselves or said that they love 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.760 the podcast, it is like, we're such losers. It is 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.160 the best thing to happen to us. It makes me 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.640 so happy, Alex have a little spring in my staff 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:18.960 as I leave that meeting. But guys, we wanted to 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.280 before we get into the interview today with Cecilia and Panilla, 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:23.680 we wanted to give you, guys a bit of a 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.560 setup or like understanding if you haven't watched The Tinder Swindler. 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:28.160 I mean, we did give you that homework, and we 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:29.800 gave you plenty of notice, but we wanted to give 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.000 you a bit of an idea about what happens the 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.760 rundown on it, and then kind of what has progressed 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.600 even since we've spoken to Cecilia and Panilla. We interviewed 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.280 them last week, but there have been some developments in 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.240 the story since the documentary came out and also since 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.600 we interviewed them. Basically, for anybody, if you haven't seen 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.640 The Tinder Swindler, it's a story about a man named 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.600 Simon Levive. It's not his real name. His real name 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.280 is Shiman Hayut, and he is an Israeli conman who 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.880 has spent time in prison, one for being a con artist, 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.839 but also for forging passports. Now, the two women who 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.880 were interviewing, Cecilia and Panilla, they are at the forefront 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.920 of this documentary, The Tinder Swindler, and they tell their 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.160 story about how they were swindled literally out of hundreds 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.520 and thousands of dollars because of Simon. So Simon feigned 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.800 that he is the son of a diamond billionaire, a 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.319 company called Led Diamonds. The whole thing was a setup. 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.880 And when Brett first told me about this documentary, my 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.679 initial response was like, how on earth, Like, how on 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.840 earth could anyone believe such a fantastical light, Like how 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.360 could you even pretend to be a billionaire unless you 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.560 have the money to front the lifestyle to pretend to 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.840 be a billionaire. But he had so many other women 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.040 on the go. He had so much money that he 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.120 had taken from these women up to what they think 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.560 is an estimated ten million dollars. So he was living 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.199 the lifestyle of a billionaire, and he was telling Cecilia 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.120 and Panilla that he was in so much danger, that 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.600 some diamond deals had gone badly, that people were after him, 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.800 and that he couldn't use his credit cards because he 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.440 being tracked. And what he actually did is he got Cecilia, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.120 who is his girlfriend at the time, one of many girlfriends, 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.800 and she was completely unaware of this. He got her 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.240 to open up her own credit cards, which he would 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.400 then use as his credit cards because he was telling 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.160 her that his were being tracked. Now, this is the 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.640 start of such a truly harrowing story of how she 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.640 was romantically conned. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.040 There's so much more to this story, and as the 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.600 web of lies starts to unfold, you start to see 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.760 how these different women are interconnected and where their stories 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:31.720 actually crossover. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.880 It really is a catfish story on steroids. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.080 It's catfishing on a whole nother level. It's like, I 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:44.320 didn't realize that the deception to this level could exist, 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.199 that people could go to this much trouble. And when 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.160 I say this much trouble, I mean you'd have to 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.000 watch the documentary if you haven't watched it. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.160 But one thing that I really wanted to talk about 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:54.520 before we get in, and it is one thing that 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.800 the women do speak about, Panilla and Cecilia, and they 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.679 talk a lot about victim shaming and fall out of 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.840 going public with their story and trying to make people 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.080 aware of it. And they speak, you know, we spoke 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.280 off camera as well off microphone, and there are a 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.320 lot of people, a lot of victims that didn't want 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.080 to put themselves out there because they were actually legitimately 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.160 scared of their life. There were death threats from Simon. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.280 He had threatened their family and their friends, He knew 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.160 where they lived, he would make threatening phone calls. So 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.439 I one hundred percent understand why people wouldn't want to 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:24.160 put themselves in that position any further. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.080 Yeah, And I think that that was something that wasn't 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.480 communicated that clearly on the documentary, is that Cecilia and 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.120 Panilla were legitimately afraid for their lives. And I guess 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.320 it comes back to this idea of the person that 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.440 they thought he was, this person who they had known 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.880 for years or for months or however long. I think 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.520 Cecilia's story was a little bit shorter. Panilla had was 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.040 Simon's best friend for over a year. They didn't know 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.800 this man. The whole life that he had created was 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.480 completely fabricated, so they didn't know what he was actually 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.199 capable of, and he was threatening to hurt their family. 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.400 He was threatening to kill them. He was telling them that, hey, 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.719 he had like a hit out on their head. Can 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.319 you imagine the amount of fear that you would be 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.160 living in from that. I mean, Panilla had to get protection, 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.200 she had to speak to policing, a witness, protection and 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.880 things like that. It would be I can't. 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.600 Even imagine how scared you would be thinking that this person, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.240 especially because you've see the documentary. You see him switch 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.480 the second that he realizes that he's caught out and 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:20.040 it's done, you see a whole different person, a very angry, aggressive, gaslighting, 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.160 threatening person. And once you realize that this person, you 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:24.599 have no idea who you are, You don't know what 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.520 they're capable of. And they're literally calling your house saying, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:28.960 I know where you live, I'm going to kill you. 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.720 As if you're not going to be petrified and what 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:33.080 they said, and it really got to me. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:34.600 It doesn't matter. 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.200 So they've received a lot of love and a lot 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:41.240 of support around the world since coming out with their story. Conversely, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.240 they have received a lot of hate and as well, 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.080 like a lot of people saying, you're so stupid, you 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:47.960 deserve it. How could you give up your money? You 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.920 barely know him. But at the end of the day, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.959 they are victims in this story, and victim shaming is 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.440 a real problem, and victim shaming has to stop. So 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.839 you can have your opinion one hundred percent, but I 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.440 implore you to keep an open mind and maybe opinion 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.920 like you Laura, will slightly change after watching the documentary totally. 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.240 And I think the one thing that I've found was 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:11.000 so viscerally obvious to me in interviewing Cecily and Panilla, 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.640 And I've never experienced this in interviewing anyone before. We've 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.600 always had such an easy rapport with people that we've interviewed. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.640 But I could feel their defensiveness. And the reason why 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.480 I could feel their defensiveness is because they have been 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.040 conditioned to hate media because they just don't know how 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:28.679 a story is going to spin. I mean, like, we 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.480 know what that's like, we know what it's like to 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.800 do in interview and then to see the article come 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:34.840 out the next day, and all the things you said 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.199 have been twisted in a way that isn't actually truthful 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.600 to the storyline. And I feel so sorry for these 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.280 women that they have not only experienced what they've experienced, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.920 but then they've had to go through the absolute circus 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.560 that is the media, not just in Australia but throughout 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.719 the world. This docu series has had over ten million downloads. 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.640 It's one of the biggest trending Netflix series in the 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.520 world at the moment. And they're not people who have 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.920 been media trained, and they've just been churned through. And 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.360 so not only have they gone through this traumatic experience, 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.520 but now they're having to deal with the judgment that 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.840 follows from that. And I just can't even imagine what 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:08.920 that would be like for them. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.240 These women were with who they thought were their penguin, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:12.960 They were with someone that were moving in with they 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.839 well they were they were in a relationship. Now the 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.120 relationship wasn't real, but it was real to them. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.000 They didn't know that. So of course, when their partner 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.000 of a year has someone out with a hit on 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.840 their head and says, right now, in this second, I 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:27.160 need this. 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.640 Money or I'm dead. You're going to give them money. 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:31.120 And I don't care what anyone says. If you're in 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.600 that situation and your partner says it's life or death, 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:34.920 you're going to give them money. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:35.240 Yeah. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.080 And I think that the other thing about this, like 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:38.640 the last part that I think is really important to 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.320 keep perspective on, is that this isn't just one man 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.200 who was a conmn. This was an organized Ponzi scheme. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.080 There were so many people who were actually employed and 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.440 involved in this scam. Which when it's an organized operation 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.800 like this and there's so many levels to the deceit, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.120 it's actually a job. It's someone's job to set out 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.640 and do this. Simon is just doing his job, well, 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.280 do you know, I mean, like you stand no chance. 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:01.960 He's doing it the best. He's the best in the business. 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:03.400 He's the best in the business. And if you were 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.360 a victim to this, like, it's not one person who's 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.280 deceived you, It is a full organization that has deceived you. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.200 And I think when you had that perspective, it's much 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.120 easier to understand how these women were taken down, and 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.320 not only how they were taken down, about how it 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.000 wasn't just ten thousand dollars how it was literally hundreds 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.760 of thousands of dollars and it's plummeted these women into 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.960 so much debt. There is a go fundme page for 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.360 them which is helping them claw back some of the money. 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.640 But the other part that we talk about in this 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.840 interview is that it's so much more than just money, 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:33.440 and I think that that's one thing that we get 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.640 really hung up on. But the other side to this 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.440 is the fact that these women had a sexual relationship 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.240 with someone who they didn't know who he was, and 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.120 they've given consent, but they've given consent to someone who 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.320 isn't the person that they thought it was either, And 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.320 it's just there's so many layers to this which are 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.880 truly traumatic, and I think that, like I said, going 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.480 back to the defensiveness that came through a little bit 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.640 from Cecilia and Panilla, like I can't imagine what it 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.200 would be like going through this situation and then having 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.680 to defend why it happened to you. At the same time, 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.280 it has come out that he has swindled men as 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.040 well in businesses around Europe. This has been going on 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.960 for a very very long time, and no one was 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.520 safe totally and if anything, We should be celebrating the 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.680 bravery of these women coming out and sharing their story 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.240 and in doing so, protecting so many other women from 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:18.400 experiencing the same thing. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.440 But Laura, I feel like we could talk about this forever. 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:23.200 This whole episode could have just been you and me 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.120 voicing our opinions on it. But we will get into 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.320 that interview in just the hot second. We do have 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:28.680 some other things to get to. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.680 First, though we have accidentally unfiltered. But first, brit there 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.880 is something that you wanted to talk about and that 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.440 you are well kind of ready to talk about. I 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.440 don't know how you want to approach this, and I 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.040 don't know how you want to I want to move 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.640 to a last guy, yea, I would like to set 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.200 everything on fire and just leave the floor is lover? 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:49.240 No? 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.280 Yay, Guys, I do want to give you an update. 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.200 If you've been following along, I mean, my life for 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.640 a little while, if you're in the Facebook discussion group, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.360 if you read any other news articles, you'll see that 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.000 there has been some speculation for a little while about 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:07.600 my relationship with Jordan. I've kept very quiet about that 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.480 for a multitude of reasons, but it is time to 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.080 give you guys a little update. I don't really know 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.879 where to start, so I'm just going to start. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:17.760 Jordan and I. 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.560 He came back for a really short period over the summer. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.840 He doesn't live here, He lives overseas, and I think 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.040 a lot of people forget that because I constantly get 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.680 questions about why aren't you posting with Jordan and why 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.360 an't there stories with Jordan. Firstly, Jordan does not live 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.560 in Australia. He's here for like a total of seven 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.000 weeks max a year throughout the year, and this year 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.080 was no different. He also is a very private person, 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:41.920 so I've told you that before, and he did come 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.359 on the podcast and there were times that, you know, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.320 he was really happy to be featured in instagrams and 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.400 he would feature me at the end of the day. 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.520 He's very very private. You only need to go on 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.080 his Instagram to see that. He hates social media. He 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.320 really hates it. So he came back for the summer 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:01.240 and we did spend a really nice, quiet summer together. 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.120 We didn't post about each other. I mean we did. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:04.600 If you follow me on Instagram, you'll see a couple 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.159 of stories here and there. But we just spent a 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.679 really nice time together. And then it was hard because 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.480 there are a lot of quote unquote reports that we 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.919 had broken up a long time ago, that some horrible 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:18.960 things were written by people that were claiming to be 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.879 reporters and they absolutely aren't, and that was really tough 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:23.840 to know that we were here being together and just 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.240 because we hadn't put an Instagram up, people were making 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.680 up stories. So that's one thing that we were battling. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.200 And also I guess at that time, you guys were 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.200 figuring out your shit. It wasn't like it was smooth, 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.879 easy sailing, like you know, you were together, but you 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.320 were sorting out what does moving forward look like when 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.760 there is no clear path for how you're going to 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:45.320 be together. 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.160 Yeah, we had some big life decisions that we were making, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.760 which was also why we were just keeping to ourselves 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.640 because we didn't know what the future looked like for us. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.720 And yeah, so we did that and then you might 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.480 have seen, probably about two weeks ago now someone you 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.119 might have seen. I dropped him to the airport. He 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.080 was going back for the next year of travel, and 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.040 you know, we said goodbyes, but we actually said goodbye, 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.520 We're good, I'm just gonna stop for a second because 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:12.000 I'm not set. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.560 Okay, you're allowed to be upset, honey. So you're doing great, 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.119 doing great. I know how hard this is for you 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.919 to talk about, and something that I wanted to like 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:26.960 was something I wanted to kind of say it to 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.960 everyone who's listening to this, because yeah, I'm kind, because 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.520 you're great. I know how much we share of our 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.120 lives with you guys, and like, you are so welcome 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.919 into our lives and we love sharing it with you. 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:39.919 We love that we have this community. We love that 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.480 you guys are so supportive of us. But it's really 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.000 hard to see brit go through something that's been really 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.879 really difficult over the last two weeks and for people 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.959 to demand that she tell them where her relationship status 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.960 is at, especially when Britt didn't know where her relationship 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.240 status was at. And I guess the thing with us 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:58.679 is we share so much of our lives, but we 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.960 don't share it necessarily in real time because we still 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.800 have to figure out how the fuck we feel about things, 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.520 you know, even like me, when I had my miscarriage, 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.040 I shared that several weeks to several months afterwards, once 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.080 i'd compartmentalized it. I'd worked through that junk by myself. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.159 I was able to set some boundaries up and I 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.240 could formulate how I felt about it, so then I 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.359 could tell you how I felt about it. And I 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.600 guess in this instance, like BRIT's breakup officially happened two 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.040 weeks ago and she hasn't worked through how she feels 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.440 about it yet. But because there has been so much 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.919 reporting happening, we obviously want to share with you and 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:34.600 tell you what's happening. We want you to have that 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.639 authenticity and transparency. But I think at the same time, 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.879 Britt needs the space and the privacy to really recover 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.280 before she's able to speak about something, because this is 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:49.160 not like she's fucking heartbroken. Yeah, it's been a really 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.600 tough little while for me and Laura. Laura said, He's right, like, 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.680 we're very open with you. If there's something we're not talking. 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.240 About, it's for a reason, Like there is a reason 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.520 we're deciding not to share something with you, and obviously 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:02.520 the time will come where we will share it. But 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.920 for me, I can't even explain how hard the last 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:06.840 couple of weeks has been, Like I have not there's 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:08.399 been days I didn't get out of bed. There's been 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.320 days I couldn't stop crying. The girls would walk in 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.359 and say hello, and I'd just start crying. And I 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.240 think the reason is, I really really want to reiterate this. 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.760 There is not a story here. There is nothing that 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.680 has happened. It is. It is literally the most beautiful 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.439 and amicable breakup. It was just two people that, you know, 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.640 we thought were each other's penguins. We loved each other. 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.040 Nothing happened, no one's done the wrong thing. It's purely 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.919 we're at a point of life where we couldn't physically 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.720 be together. His career and he's in the prime of 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.640 his career, like he has so so much to go 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.199 and so many years left, and he's only going to 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:46.080 do amazing things. 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:47.240 He can't be here. 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:49.680 His job every week around them is a different city, 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:51.760 literally every week of the year, he's in a different city. 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.240 My career is here and I'm doing a lot and 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.439 I can't travel with him this year. So we just 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.280 had to decide what the future looks like, and we 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.920 decided to just be really supportive of each other and 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.560 go our separate ways. And we're still very very close, 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.200 Like we absolutely adore each other. We respect each other 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:08.919 more than anything, and we're still friends. 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:10.679 Yeah, we still talk, but it is. 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:12.439 Over, and we had to make that really hard decision. 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.520 And I think that it's almost harder. You almost, in 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:17.920 a weird way, wish you could hate the person because 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:19.200 I feel like it's easier to get over. 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:21.080 And I know that's a crazy thing and people probably 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.080 will disagree with me. I would I rather hate him. 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:25.919 I would rather be like, because then you forget him 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:26.520 and you move on. 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:28.520 But when you love someone and it's purely it was 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:30.760 just a distance thing and a you know, I want 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:32.119 the best for you, you want the best of me, 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.919 and that means not being together anymore. That makes it 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:36.960 so much harder. But we know at the end of 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.160 the day that this is right for us at this time. 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.359 I guess with that, like with distance, it makes it 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.240 so hard to close the chapter. It makes it so 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.159 hard to actually be accepting of like the finality of 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.760 it all, because you're like, but the only thing stopping 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.280 us from being great is this that we can't physically 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:55.080 be together. And I think like the big part of this, 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.560 and the part that's like so fucking hard, is that 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:02.080 brit your career is so important to you, and you 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.120 don't want to sacrifice your career to be in a relationship. 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:07.560 And that is what would have to happen if there 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:11.320 was no meeting in the middle, because unfortunately, like you 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.800 can't be a professional sportsperson and just decide where you're 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:16.479 going to be. You've got to follow the tour around 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.080 and that's not where your life is. No, and he 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.680 was so supportive of each other that he would never 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.480 ask me to give up my career, and I would 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.600 never ask him. It's just one of those things, and 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.960 this is where we are, and maybe who knows, in 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.920 a different lifetime it might have worked out. But for 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:34.679 now we just have to accept that. I guess we 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:37.080 thought were each other's penguins, like you guys followed along. 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.320 I've been really open about that. He came on the 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.879 podcast and said the same thing. We really truly believed 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:45.480 that we found each other, and the hardest thing is 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:46.479 to accept it. It's not. 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:50.440 But I will be okay, and maybe down the track 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.920 we'll talk about it more. Cook for now, but for now, 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.320 like I'm so fine, guys, like okay. She says that 0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:58.600 as she's crying no, no, it's like we just wanted 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:00.000 to feel Look, we just wanted to feel you in 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.600 because honestly, it's been pretty shitty actually the people that 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.960 have been hassling me for information from just random people, 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:12.479 some listeners, news reporters, And I understand people want to know, 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:14.760 but like Lauria said at the very beginning, you just 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.040 got to give some people some space. People are real 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:20.760 people and they're going through things in real time. So anyway, 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:23.200 I am back on the market. 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.080 But also I think, like for anybody who's going through 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:30.760 a breakup, or anybody who's been through a hard breakup, 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:35.240 like there are so many feelings of disappointment. There's feelings 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:38.800 of failure. There's feelings of like, I can't believe this 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:41.520 is happening when it's not where you expect that your 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:43.520 life is going to be. And there's feelings of having 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.040 to realign your identity and figure out, well who am 0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.040 I again? Now that I'm on my own, it's. 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:52.240 A new chapter again, Like I'm now reassessing what I 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:54.600 thought my future was, and I thought it was planned out. 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:57.800 It's completely different now and I'm back to a place 0:24:57.840 --> 0:24:59.680 that I hadn't been in for a long time, and 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.560 I'm relearning and I'm re trying to train my mind 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.199 that it's okay that things change. And just because I 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:07.879 thought something was going to be one way, it's okay 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:08.679 that it's going another. 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:10.560 And one of the big things that we said from 0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:12.840 the very beginning of doing this podcast is that some 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:15.600 of the best things in life can come out of 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:16.440 the worst situation. 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:21.640 So run it right, ladies and gentlemen. 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:24.000 You thought last year was you watched it out? It's 0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:27.679 coming anyway, guys, enough of the sad stuff. It is 0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:31.399 time for our favorite part of every episode, which is 0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:35.880 accidentally unfiltered, and I'm going to go first. While brick collections, 0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:41.320 you need to equally collect yourself. Okay, here we go. 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:45.000 One night, I went out and hit the piss pretty hard. 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:48.879 I'm talking vodka, tequila, and wine, you name it. I 0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:51.880 did it. Anyway, my worst nimement care mine too. Now 0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:53.680 I have three glasses of wine and I've got to 0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:56.640 hang over. Anyway, I had been checking this guy out 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.080 all night and we ended up going home together. He 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.919 was super sex and we had an amazing night. The 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:05.920 next morning, I woke up in my bed and without 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:09.639 a second thought, I let out the loudest, most rank 0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:12.760 fart I have ever done in my entire life. Not 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:14.680 only that, it was like a grog fart, which we 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:18.680 all I rolled over to find this guy I met 0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:21.480 the previous evening in my bed. You can imagine the 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:23.879 fucking horror. I just, for a sa second thought I 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:25.880 was in the safety and comfort of my own home 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:28.720 completely even forgot that I had gone home with him. 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:32.640 Needless to say, he very shortly left and we never 0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:35.840 saw each other again. The absolute monstrosity of the sound 0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:39.119 woke him up from his sleep. So she, how do 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:43.040 you forget that someone else is in your bed? Well, 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:44.760 I think if you've had a real bender, you could. 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:47.440 I once, O K. This is oh God, I faba 0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:49.119 shouldn't share this, But I once when you got a 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.720 guy whenever the guy at Uni we were dating. We'd 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:54.120 been dating each other for quite a while, and he 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:57.520 lived on campus at UNI, and I went back to 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:00.159 his apartment, which I'd been done a hundred times, to 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:04.720 his apartment and he had rearranged the apartment so his 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:06.679 bed was on the other side of the room, like 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:10.280 things were not where they usually were. So I don't 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:12.560 do this anymore, and highly don't recommend it. I obviously 0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:14.760 drank too much in my UNI days, but I would 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:17.000 like not remember parts of the night before, Like I 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:20.040 had drunk way too much, and I woke up in 0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:23.040 his bed but facing a different wall to where I 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:24.960 would normally face, so you didn't know what you were 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:26.840 So I had no fucking idea where I was, and 0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:30.040 literally for about thirty seconds, I thought I had gone 0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:33.280 home with somebody else from the UNI apartment building, and 0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:35.520 so I was just laying in bed crying because I 0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:37.920 was too scared to roll over because I didn't want 0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:39.840 to see who it was. And he was like, what 0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:42.160 are you doing? Why are you crying? And then I 0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:45.359 was like, it's just you know. Needless to say, that 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:47.959 was literally the last time I saw him. He dumped 0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:51.000 me after that, no doubt. Absolutely. He was like, are 0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:53.280 you serious, Like you don't remember coming back here? And 0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:55.320 I definitely it was disgusting. 0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:58.280 I often wonder if it is a level of alcohol 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:00.520 consumption or just how your body takes it, because I 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:02.480 have friends like that. They're like completely like I don't 0:28:02.480 --> 0:28:04.120 remember a thing, and I always used to think they're 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:04.639 making it up. 0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:05.480 I thought that's an. 0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:08.359 Excuse because I lacked out drunk. 0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:10.040 I have never even in. 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:13.440 My most intoxicated I've been in my whole life, I've 0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:16.560 never forgotten something. I've never not known where I was. 0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:17.400 So I don't know if. 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:20.760 There's like a way your body absorbs ourcohol or receives it. 0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:21.919 And do you know what the weird thing for me 0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.160 is is like it's not like I'm passed out. I'm 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:26.479 not talking like blackout, as though like sloppy, you know, 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:28.480 falling over in the gutter and need someone to help you. 0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:31.560 I will like have full conversations. I will put myself 0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:33.479 to bed, I'll have a shower, I'll brush my teeth, 0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:36.520 but will not remember that part of the night. For me, 0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:38.720 it's white wine. But anyway, you learn your lessons in 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:41.920 your youth, and we certainly shouldn't do them. All right, 0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:42.760 I'm moving on. 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.000 I kept ranting for weeks to my boyfriend about how 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:48.680 I needed to clean out my wardrobe because the mess 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:51.080 was fucking with me. I came home from work one 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:53.400 day and to my surprise, my boyfriend had tied in 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:54.200 my wardrobe. 0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:55.920 What a keeper. I could put a ring on that. 0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:58.240 Bless I was so happy that I got to avoid 0:28:58.280 --> 0:29:00.760 the shitty task later on, we're watching movie and he 0:29:00.800 --> 0:29:04.440 says to me, So, when I cleaned out your wardrobe, 0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:06.480 I found something in a pink handbag. 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:09.080 I was so unsure of what it could have. 0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:13.160 Been, and then it hit me like a ton of bricks. 0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:15.720 I had wanted to try anal with my ex and 0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:19.040 I thought, and I thought, I should buy some little 0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:20.080 butt trainers. 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:21.440 So I bought two. 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:23.880 The photos on the internet made them look like mini 0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:27.479 glue sticks. However, to my shock, when they arrived, there 0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:31.880 were two massive anal dildos exceeding the circumference of my arm. 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:35.240 I'm so embarrassed. How would you stick that in your 0:29:35.360 --> 0:29:37.480 arm but your butt? That's why she didn't. 0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:40.000 I felt so shocked and embarrassed that he found these 0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:41.000 that I just panicked. 0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:42.640 In a moment. I didn't know what to do. 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.600 All I could think was to lie and say that 0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:47.440 I don't know what was in the pink bag, and 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:48.800 that the bag wasn't mine. 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:51.840 It wasn't mine. He asked me who the bag was, 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:54.720 and in the heat of the moment, I said, my 0:29:54.840 --> 0:30:00.360 mother owned the pink bag. I convinced him that my. 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.840 My mother owned two enormous anal dildos to this day, 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:05.960 I have never confessed we're still together. 0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:08.680 He still thinks my mom has two big dildos. Are 0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:10.520 they called dildos if they're in it for your butt 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:11.920 or are they called eight like butt plug? 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:14.920 I'm just don't you messenger, I am literally well, she 0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:17.280 thought this is the problem. She thought she ordered these 0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:20.320 two butt plugs. But she's like something when I miss 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:21.640 on the internet. I don't know if you press the 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:24.440 wrong button in the checkout, but she got two big dildos. 0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:26.280 Feel like, if you're gonna list something like that, you 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:28.600 really need a size scale, like have a penny or 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:30.600 something next to it, so if people can see having 0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:31.960 the butt plug is She finished my. 0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:33.720 Saying, I hope I'm lend to heaven, but the odds 0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:34.320 aren't looking great. 0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:39.040 Sorry, Mom. Imagine if, like I mean, of all the 0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:39.480 people you. 0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:41.440 Could have thrown onto the bus in that moment, surely 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:43.160 I would have gone my old flatmate or something, the 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:43.960 poor mother. 0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:46.680 The poor Although the only thing worse than pretending they're 0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:49.280 your mum's butt plugs is actually finding your mum's steeldough. 0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:51.840 And that's the story for another accidentally unfiltered. It's a 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:52.520 personal one. 0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:55.560 Oh my please, Okay, I have far that's you're gonna 0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:56.760 have dusch Mum's permision for that one. 0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:03.560 Let's get into the chat with Mila and Cecilia. 0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:06.160 This has got to be one of the interviews I 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:09.520 have been the most excited to do. And when I 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:13.479 did a little slippery slide into the DMS of the 0:31:13.520 --> 0:31:16.320 girls from the Tinder Swindler Cecilia and Panila, I was 0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:19.040 just blown away that I got a response saying that 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.360 you were actually interested in coming on and telling your story. 0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:26.680 Because here in Australia, Laura and myself and literally the 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:30.040 rest of the country have just been so obsessed and 0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:34.400 so enthralled, and I think just so gobsmacked by your story. 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:37.320 So we are so excited to welcome both Cecilia and 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:39.880 Panilla to Life on Cut. Ladies, thank you so much 0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:40.840 for joining us today. 0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:44.120 Oh, thank you, thank you. We're very happy to be here. 0:31:44.360 --> 0:31:48.120 It must be really difficult rehashing this conversation constantly and 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:50.720 seeing how things have played out and the way that 0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:53.320 people talk about this story in media as well. But 0:31:53.640 --> 0:31:55.800 there's so much to this and we want to get 0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:57.960 into kind of where you guys are at now. Since 0:31:57.960 --> 0:32:00.800 the Netflix documentary has come out, but before we do, 0:32:00.920 --> 0:32:03.840 for anybody who's listening to this podcast and hasn't or 0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:06.840 doesn't know your full story yet, so Cilic, we wanted 0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:08.600 to start with yours because that's kind of where the 0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:11.360 documentary starts with. Can you tell us a little bit 0:32:11.360 --> 0:32:14.480 about not just how you met Simon because obviously Tinder 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:16.960 kind of gives that away, but what that first date 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:19.760 was like for you and how things progressed really quickly. 0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:23.280 Yeah, I was on tender as a lot of other 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:27.200 single people some years back, and then yeah, matched up 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:29.080 with them and decided to go very quickly for a 0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:31.200 coffee because I could see that he was traveling a 0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:34.720 lot around. Met him matter hotel there, had a coffee, 0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:36.800 and then you wants to spend more time with me 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:39.320 and asked if I wanted to continue being with them 0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:41.719 when they were going on a business trip to Sofia, 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:44.280 and then I met his entire team. That was the 0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:47.240 first date, so we went a little trip together. 0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:51.200 So how long from literally when you swiped and matched 0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:53.640 until you met him for that coffee? Are we talking 0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:54.240 like a day? 0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:56.000 An hour? It was the time frame? 0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:58.200 Oh, it was a Saturday evening and then we met 0:32:58.240 --> 0:33:01.040 a Sunday morning, like ten thirty. So it was a 0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:03.440 very like weird timing for a date as well, Like 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:05.280 so I wasn't expecting. I thought it was going to 0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:07.680 be a coffee and then I was going to continue 0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:10.480 writing my master thesis that so I brought my laptop 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:12.040 and everything with me because I thought this would be 0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:14.320 one of those short dates, you know, not a private jet. 0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:15.520 Not a private jet. 0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:19.440 It wasn't just a little trip. It was a sensationally 0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.560 like no expenses sped, bougie trip. Where did you end up? 0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:26.160 And how did that process of when he said, hey, 0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:28.320 I'm going on this work trip, come with me. How 0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:29.800 did that all unfold? 0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:32.680 It's so interesting when you get like caught into his world, 0:33:32.800 --> 0:33:35.040 you know. So we met the entire team and so 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:37.200 much going on. There's so many people, you know, so 0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:40.520 like drivers and like three four cars and where are 0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:42.560 they going? And where are we going? So we're going 0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:45.080 to sell fridges for lunch. First we had lunch actually 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:48.000 the entire team before we went to there. So we 0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:50.480 were hanging out, all of us. So it was more like, Okay, 0:33:50.520 --> 0:33:51.920 you need to go home to get you to know 0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:53.920 your passport, you need to pack so driver can take 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:57.200 you there. So it was really like it's organized chaos, 0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:59.320 and you could really see that Simon was the boss 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:00.440 because everyone was. 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:03.760 Like talking to him regarding decisions and stuff like that. 0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:06.520 And then we would drove out to the airport and 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:08.960 then you were all waiting to board, you know, and 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:12.040 it was like it's surreal, Like it was a military airport. 0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:14.960 So I've never been like at a small airport like 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:15.480 that either. 0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:18.000 And also like you ended up getting on a private 0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:19.640 jet and this was kind of your first day it 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:22.680 was on a private jet, sitting down with Simon and 0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:24.759 getting to know him more. But I guess that that's 0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:27.200 one part of the documentary that I don't think we 0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:29.520 saw so much as this idea that it wasn't just 0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:32.440 a date with him. There were so many more people 0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:34.920 that were involved in this, and it was the huge 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:38.799 and elaborate setup that kind of gave you that reinforcement 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:40.640 that made you go, oh, well, this is legit, this 0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:42.839 is safe. If there's so many other people that were 0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:44.280 involved in it at the time. 0:34:44.480 --> 0:34:46.279 Yeah, I think that's why. And you could see the 0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:48.239 other there were other women there, like it was a 0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:50.920 female that was his private assistant. I was told, and 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:53.160 you know that you're the baby's mother and a little dollar. 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:55.520 So yes, I know a lot of people were very 0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:58.040 scared of me, and yes, I was thinking about it afterwards, 0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:01.239 but I think the safeness of seeing the people made me. 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:04.680 It wasn't a trafficking schein, but I felt safe just 0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:06.760 seeing other people and especially the women. 0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:10.319 And we see on the plane, we see a tiny 0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:12.480 little snippet where you lean in and you give Simon 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:14.560 a kiss on the cheek. Obviously there's been more of 0:35:14.560 --> 0:35:17.279 a connection that they didn't have time to portray, but 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:19.920 you obviously felt very very comfortable and very safe there 0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:22.680 and like there was something really deep there immediately. Did 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:25.479 you feel like this intense connection with him straight away? 0:35:26.200 --> 0:35:28.680 Yeah, He's very good at that, and like when we 0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:31.480 had kissed before, Like it's just a bit magl uft 0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:35.120 in a documentary because we did kiss before, and so 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:37.840 like that little peck wasn't the first time. Like, and 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:39.920 we were sitting right next to each other, and I'm 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:42.279 a very like physical touch kind of girl when it 0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:44.719 comes to love language, and I like that and a 0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:46.600 lot of people don't, but I enjoy it, you know. 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:49.200 So we did have an immediate connection. But this is 0:35:49.239 --> 0:35:52.480 what he's good at, you know, this is what he does. 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:55.000 He makes you feel that you have that special connection 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:57.239 and that you're very special. When I was watching the 0:35:57.239 --> 0:35:59.279 podcast that has come out, like it's so nice to 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.640 see other people friends as well. It was like a 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.080 business partner of his dad, I was saying that, or 0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:05.960 like friends of his Like, he makes it feel very 0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:06.879 special when you're with. 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:11.040 Them, when everything in their life is so real and 0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:12.759 for you. And this is what I said to Laura 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:14.719 when I told Laura to watch it. Anyone that has 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:16.719 been a little bit skeptical, like how could these women 0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:18.680 fall for that when. 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:19.680 His whole life. 0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:23.400 I mean immediately you're at a military airport, Like people 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:25.480 don't just have access to that. You're at a military airport, 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:28.040 you're on a private plane with all these people. There 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:30.359 would be no part of the unit would ever think 0:36:30.520 --> 0:36:32.359 this can't be really is made up. There's no one 0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:33.600 in the world that could think that. 0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:34.080 No. 0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:36.440 But the thing is that there are so many people 0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:40.839 involved as well, I mean their entire team working against you. 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:44.719 Maybe if you need one scammer or one francer, but 0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:49.040 here we had so many people involved that did an 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:51.680 evil Trueman Show around you if you haven't seen the 0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:54.840 movie Trueman Show, but if you have your under stamina, 0:36:54.880 --> 0:36:57.239 mean it's like a theater that they do around you. 0:36:57.600 --> 0:37:00.279 So you've come to learn since this whole experience that 0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:03.480 actually the people were not necessarily also being scammed or 0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:06.239 they weren't also like as in employed by Simon, but 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:08.760 they were all involved in this. They were all part 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:11.200 of this whole elaborate creation. 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:14.200 I think in different aspects to it. Because we know that, 0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:16.960 for example, some of the drivers didn't actually know that 0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:21.520 he wasn't Simon Vive, so he was involuntarily used because 0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:23.400 he's just been with him as Simon le Vibe. So 0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:25.239 when I asked about him, like, oh, something is such 0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:26.800 a great guy. It's one of my best clients and 0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:29.239 nicest clients, you know, but he didn't know. 0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:32.840 I think this is so interesting and so important. And 0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:35.280 I know that with the documentary it was pretty obvious 0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:38.400 that there were some people who were involved, but I 0:37:38.480 --> 0:37:41.759 don't think I really fully understood when watching it the 0:37:41.880 --> 0:37:44.760 depths of what of how many people may have been involved, 0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:47.719 or the depths of the involvement. And I guess when 0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:50.160 you know, you hear about these stories. When you hear 0:37:50.200 --> 0:37:53.360 about someone being romantically scammed, a lot of people's initial 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:56.319 reaction is like, that would never happen to me, or 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:59.600 how could you let that happen to yourself? But the 0:37:59.600 --> 0:38:02.600 more I watched your documentary and the more that your 0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:07.160 story unfolded, it made me realize that this could honestly 0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:12.520 happen to anyone. Now, Cecilia, one question I did want 0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:14.760 to ask you, and it was in regards to something 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:17.160 that happened kind of early on in your relationship with 0:38:17.200 --> 0:38:21.440 Simon where you checked Tinder and you could see it. 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:23.520 Showed it in the documentary. You could see that he 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:26.040 was overseas at the time. He was in another country 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:28.160 to where he said he was going to be, but 0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:31.319 he had also updated his Tinder profiles. Were there any 0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:33.760 red flags for you early on or was there anything 0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:36.160 that looking back you think I should have been more 0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:36.759 aware of this. 0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:39.560 That is the main thing with the documentary that is 0:38:39.600 --> 0:38:42.080 not true. Now is the first time I get the question, 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.240 because I thank you so much for letting me respond 0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:46.480 to that. I would never ever have been with someone 0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:48.400 and I would never have Tinder. I would never have 0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:50.560 checked Tinder if I was in a relationship with someone 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:53.400 who does that. If you're a couple with someone you don't, 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:56.719 I wouldn't have Tinder. You delete Tinder, you don't have it. 0:38:57.040 --> 0:38:59.800 So no, I did not check everyone were a couple. 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:02.799 That would be a huge red flag for me if 0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:04.680 I were in a relationship. I did it like when 0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:08.759 we just had our first dates and then I was 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:11.080 really liking him, and you know how that is. 0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:12.640 And you go in and check, you know, have they 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:15.880 updated a picture which is very raw, of course, And 0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:18.439 then I saw that he had. And then that's when 0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:20.680 I was like, what's that? At the start he swept you up. 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:20.960 You know. 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:23.040 Of course I could have been a red flag that 0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:27.200 after some days, but I just took it that I 0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:30.239 had just seen him. We can all do it and then, 0:39:30.520 --> 0:39:33.720 but it is what it is. Hindsight is a gift, 0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:35.400 as I say, a lot of the times, what you 0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:37.480 should have seen. But that is maybe the one thing 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:41.080 with the documentary I'm like, oh god, no, it did 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:42.399 not happen that way. 0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:44.959 I'm so glad that you had the opportunity to clear 0:39:45.000 --> 0:39:47.160 that because obviously there'd be people watching that being like 0:39:47.200 --> 0:39:49.680 come on, read the scigns. But also so many women, 0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:52.399 and it's just people in general. Like I mean, when 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:55.279 you love someone and when you believe them, there's no 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:57.160 reason for you to doubt the things that they're saying. 0:39:57.239 --> 0:39:59.920 And also even in those instances when somebody is just 0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:04.319 I think it shows the level of empathy that somebody has. 0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:06.359 It's not a bad quality to want to believe someone 0:40:06.440 --> 0:40:07.640 that you're in love with or. 0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:10.160 Like infatuated kind of you know, I have to say, 0:40:10.200 --> 0:40:13.160 you know, he's a very magnetic person to be around. 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:15.279 And you feel really special. You tried to give him 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:17.400 that level of trust because he was very trusting with 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:19.160 you as well with his store and what he was 0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:21.080 going through. So it became this. 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:24.920 Very weird, vulnerable kind of relationship where both were opening up. 0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:27.839 I have a question and Panila, I'm not sure if 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:30.880 you ever met her as well, So either one of you. 0:40:31.120 --> 0:40:33.439 I have a question that I'm just so enthralled about, 0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:35.400 and I think the world is. And this is the 0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:39.560 woman that played the role of his ex partner, the 0:40:39.600 --> 0:40:41.400 mother to his child, that came on the plane, that 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.680 was always there and obviously he brought her in. I mean, 0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:47.600 for some women on a dating app, having a child 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:49.520 and an ex relationship his baggage and they would have 0:40:49.560 --> 0:40:52.120 said no. But obviously he's used that as a way 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:53.920 to get women to trust him because he's like, look, 0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:56.520 I'm a caring dad, I give all this money. Her 0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:59.279 role in this, she was correct. If I'm wrong, she 0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:01.600 actually was the next victim of his that helped put 0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:04.520 him away the first time. How did she get to 0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.080 a point where she was on his team when she 0:41:07.120 --> 0:41:10.480 went from putting him in jail to then working for him, 0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:13.120 Because that, to me is one of the biggest mysteries 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:15.000 of Tinderswinla. 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:18.200 Well, he did the same thing with me, so like 0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:21.000 when I caught him with his lies and called him 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:23.640 out for being this France d and everything he had done, 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:27.160 he tried to get me onto the scam as well. 0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:31.239 No way people tried to get me on instead of 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:36.200 like having me as his anemy. So I think that 0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:39.480 she maybe still have been in love with him or 0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:42.759 just was being very egocentric and we're just thinking of 0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:46.080 herself because like something in secilly I have said all 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:49.160 the time, like if you lived through something like this, 0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:53.120 I would never want to put any person in our shoes, 0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:55.960 And for so much to take that step to really 0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.919 know how it is like, and to take part of 0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:02.840 the scam, to try and hurt other people. I just like, 0:42:02.960 --> 0:42:04.680 I don't even know how this woman go to sleep 0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:05.040 at night. 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:07.279 And it's more that I had a conversation with her 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:09.400 back in twenty nineteen because he reached out to me, 0:42:09.440 --> 0:42:11.319 and she was so upset that I had said that 0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:14.120 she was part of Simon's team, because she meant that 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:16.719 she was just there for in London once, you know, 0:42:16.880 --> 0:42:20.399 for her daughter to meet her dad. And I can 0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:23.319 underst like that's the main thing for me. Why were 0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:25.400 you even there? And then she's come with in the 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:28.320 podcast that she says, well, there were so many girls 0:42:28.360 --> 0:42:30.399 that week and when I met him, like, how can 0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:32.600 I say to everyone? But how can you be there 0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:35.719 with a pure heart seeing all this woman who might 0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:38.840 be conned the same way you did, and be part 0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:41.319 of it? You know? You know you're being used for 0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:44.319 a reason. You know you're there for a reason. And 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:46.600 she received so many gifts as well for her daughter 0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:48.920 that she knows. I know that I saw the gifts 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:52.160 that she received. She knows they are from fraud. Can 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:52.920 you imagine? 0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:55.600 Okay, So what happens is he's found out and then 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:58.400 he thinks, Okay, I have two options. They're either going 0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:00.799 to be my enemies or well, I can try and 0:43:00.800 --> 0:43:02.759 get them on my team. They're going to say yes, 0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:04.800 this game will be better, or they say no and 0:43:04.840 --> 0:43:07.120 they're still my enemy. So he just thought, I'll try 0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:08.960 one last time to get her to join the team 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:10.680 before she goes announce me even further. 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:13.399 The thing is that her situation, I have to say, 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:15.600 can you imagine, like we can judge her as much 0:43:15.760 --> 0:43:18.399 that I totally, but I can see it that I'm 0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.080 trying to have grace as well in this. Can you 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.320 imagine she was with them and she was being scammed, 0:43:23.360 --> 0:43:24.840 She got pregned, she thought that she was in a 0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:27.799 true relationship, they were living together in Finland. Then you 0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:30.480 get pregnant, and then you realize that he was never 0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:32.560 the person you thought, and that he's a scammer, and 0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:36.480 you're pregnant with this, so you are forever connected and 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:38.880 it's a bit of maybe Stockholm syndrome, it might be 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:43.360 different types. I'm not excusing her, but I am trying 0:43:43.400 --> 0:43:45.640 my best, you know, to give people the grace that 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:47.720 a lot of people are not giving me and us 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:48.000 in this. 0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:50.360 But of course you should never have been there. 0:43:50.480 --> 0:43:53.200 Cecilia for you, at what point, like I feel like 0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:56.720 the documentary or maybe I had missed it. How quickly 0:43:56.760 --> 0:43:59.279 did things evolve for you and your relationship? Like how 0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:01.719 quickly was it that you were moving in together and 0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:04.839 just progressing the relationship, because it seemed like there was 0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:06.759 so much love bombing going on from his. 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:10.560 Side incredibly, And I think, like the thing is that 0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:13.359 it was just so nice that he was that available, 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:15.800 you know, that it was this morning. That's why I 0:44:15.800 --> 0:44:18.880 don't understand how he could do so many like at once, 0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:22.440 because it was like morning texts like mid they like whatever, 0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:25.920 when you calls, calls across the day, you know, evening. 0:44:26.280 --> 0:44:29.200 It was just it was like, yeah, love bombing to 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:31.880 another level, you know, and with these voice notes of 0:44:32.000 --> 0:44:35.360 appreciation and the future, you know. And the thing is 0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:37.640 that for me, my love life has always been that 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:41.040 the guys I like don't like me, and the guys 0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:43.440 that like me I don't like. So it was the 0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:45.759 first time in a very very long time where I 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:47.839 was like, oh my god, I really like this guy. 0:44:47.960 --> 0:44:50.239 Makes me feel so good. It's so much energy, and 0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:52.160 I have to say, like a lot of the flashinists 0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:54.640 like I didn't see it that way, Like I saw 0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:57.000 him as a very funny. 0:44:56.719 --> 0:44:57.520 Caring guy. 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:00.400 I wasn't part of these kind of I got the 0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:02.360 private jet trip and then it was done with me. 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:03.920 You got your one jet, don't be agreed. 0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:06.040 I got that one jet. Yeah. 0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:09.280 Love bombing to another level which I haven't experienced before. 0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:12.200 And I am a person at falls very quickly, like 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:14.919 if I found my match, I don't need to wait. 0:45:15.160 --> 0:45:17.680 And I think you saw that that I'm a very 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:20.279 romantic person that is caring as well. You know. 0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:23.359 So you had a perfect the perfect. 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:26.799 Victim experiencing the love bombing and then the I don't 0:45:26.840 --> 0:45:29.040 even know if you can describe it as toxicity, but 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:33.919 like the absolute destruction that Simon caused in this relationship. 0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:37.040 Experiencing it and then watching it back in a Netflix 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:42.800 documentary must have been an incredibly surreal experience for you. 0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:45.239 You mentioned something before, and I wanted to ask you. 0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:47.520 You mentioned that there was some things that happened in 0:45:47.520 --> 0:45:50.680 the documentary that were a little bit more for making 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:53.239 a movie. It wasn't exactly as it had played out. 0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:57.279 Was there anything else about your story that when you 0:45:57.320 --> 0:45:59.480 watch the doco back, you were like that's not how 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:02.680 that happened, or you didn't feel that it best represented 0:46:03.160 --> 0:46:05.000 what actually happened in real life. 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:09.000 Yeah, I would say that's so much missed out. I had, 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:12.200 for example, one person or one character that would just 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:15.280 cut off the movie that had like a huge impact 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:17.799 with me. And then also I think you had the 0:46:17.880 --> 0:46:21.759 part with the tinder. I think you reacted to that, 0:46:21.920 --> 0:46:25.360 and I reacted very strongly to where I traveled to Germany, 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:28.600 because when I traveled to Germany, I tried to have 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:31.200 him arrested, and that is the reason why I went. 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.040 So an hour before the flight is leaving, I'm getting 0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:36.799 a call from the police that says we're not going 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:38.919 to be able to do their arrest now, and there 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:41.560 I make the decision that it's better I go anyway, 0:46:41.680 --> 0:46:43.960 maybe they can sort it out by tomorrow. While I'm there, 0:46:44.480 --> 0:46:47.080 I'm still having this like high trust that they are 0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:50.319 going to take him. So I spent two weeks with him, 0:46:50.360 --> 0:46:52.759 sitting with the police officers in like I don't think, 0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:55.880 like four or five countries, and just trying and working 0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:59.040 like full time just to try and have him arrested. 0:46:59.480 --> 0:47:01.200 And why did I think they didn't want to arrest 0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:03.080 in Panila, Like do you think they didn't feel like 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:05.240 it was as big of a case as you guys 0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:07.000 were telling them it was, or what do you think 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:07.880 the pushback was. 0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:11.560 There is a lot of reasons. I think I think 0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:15.360 he did it very smart. He separated all his cases 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:18.160 in different type of countries to the EU in the 0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:21.800 European Union. And as the law works in the European 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:25.359 Union is that for example, if Sweden makes the international 0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:28.680 arrestaurant for him, then all the other countries are allowed 0:47:28.680 --> 0:47:31.480 to bring their cases to that country. That means you 0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:34.400 have to find a prosecutor in one of these countries 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.200 that want to touch these cases. Because it's quite complicated. 0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:39.520 There is a lot like we normally say, if it 0:47:39.520 --> 0:47:41.399 would have been tax money, they would have find him 0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:44.160 five minutes ago. So it's not about they have noon 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:47.160 where he was the entire time. Like they knew where 0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:49.960 he was, They knew that he was going to go 0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:52.640 on that plane, so the second he went on the plane, 0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:55.239 they just they could do it. But the law is 0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:57.960 quite interesting sometimes and it is a question that means 0:47:57.960 --> 0:47:59.960 Cecilia asked so many times, and I think the entire 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:02.360 world is us worried how come, he can still be 0:48:02.360 --> 0:48:02.719 out there. 0:48:02.760 --> 0:48:05.480 I mean, he was also not just so smart on 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:07.319 the way he did it that it was spread out 0:48:07.320 --> 0:48:11.080 across the EU, but also the debt was under somebody 0:48:11.080 --> 0:48:13.960 else's name. The debt in the case for you, Cecilia, 0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:17.520 the credit cards were in your name. What point was 0:48:17.560 --> 0:48:20.040 it when you when you had handed over these credit 0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:22.160 cards it had your name in it, and he was 0:48:22.280 --> 0:48:24.880 racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, What 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:28.080 point was it where you started to realize, maybe this 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:30.080 money is not going to come back in, maybe he 0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:32.640 is not going to pay me or something. He's really 0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:33.160 wrong here. 0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:36.800 It's just difficult because he was making transactions that didn't 0:48:36.800 --> 0:48:39.960 come in, but he was always having a reason or 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.239 when you call the police, I'm not sorry. When you 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:46.439 were calling the banks, kind of they were like confirming 0:48:46.520 --> 0:48:49.040 whatever he was saying. For example, he was always making 0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:53.799 very large transactions, like half a million pounds was necessarily 0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:54.120 to make. 0:48:54.160 --> 0:48:57.080 That was kind of and then yeah. 0:48:56.719 --> 0:48:59.400 So I was still like thinking that something would come in, 0:48:59.440 --> 0:49:01.840 and he was in stilling that fear and that pressure. 0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:03.680 So it's kind of like when you're in that situation. 0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:05.960 He was either are you going to stop or is 0:49:05.960 --> 0:49:06.640 he going to die? 0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:07.239 Kind of. 0:49:07.760 --> 0:49:09.560 So I see a lot of people are saying, like 0:49:09.880 --> 0:49:12.440 making the memes like, oh, if my boyfriend asked me 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:15.000 for money, I would just let him die. And I 0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:16.960 was like, well, if you're in that situation, you really 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:19.200 think your boyfriend's going to die if you don't help him, 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:21.520 that's a very not a good relationship to be. And 0:49:21.560 --> 0:49:23.920 he's very cunning in that aspect. 0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:24.120 You know. 0:49:24.160 --> 0:49:28.200 It's the emotional and the manipulation that if you don't 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:31.200 help something is going to go wrong, which you can 0:49:31.320 --> 0:49:33.880 laugh about, yes, my enemies and stuff, but that was 0:49:34.000 --> 0:49:36.759 true at the time. So I think my first thing 0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:39.880 was like when I got the check and I called 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:42.160 the bank and they said they couldn't cash the check. 0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:45.080 But then I talked to them and I called Simon 0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:47.920 and he was and that's have you heard when he 0:49:47.960 --> 0:49:52.400 becomes really mad that called eldd diamonds like they will confirm. 0:49:52.440 --> 0:49:54.000 And I was like, that would be very Do you 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:56.680 understand how this guy is He's asking like that, if 0:49:56.680 --> 0:50:01.040 the bank is calling ld diamonds, they will confirm anyways, 0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:04.120 So and then I asked, like, why didn't it cash 0:50:04.280 --> 0:50:06.759 and they said, well, the sum is too large, like, 0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:10.080 we don't post so and as I saw the check 0:50:10.239 --> 0:50:13.000 is all good and they said, yes, the check is fine, 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:17.120 there's nothing wrong with the check. So I was so 0:50:17.160 --> 0:50:19.239 scared for half an hour. The busse was kind of 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:21.719 late in the game as well. After said this was 0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:23.600 not at the start. It was when I was starting 0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:25.680 to become really desperate to get in money because that 0:50:25.800 --> 0:50:28.040 creditor is after me. So you had that extra pressure 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:31.480 of him pressuring you. They're pressuring you trying to fix this, 0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:34.759 you know. So he saved himself for a couple more 0:50:34.840 --> 0:50:36.279 extra weeks with that because I was like. 0:50:36.280 --> 0:50:37.160 Oh, the check is real. 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:38.960 And then I got to know the banks don't check 0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:41.319 if the check is genuine. When they get a check, 0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:44.400 they don't check if it's genuine. No, they don't do that. 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:47.240 We think banks did that right now, Well. 0:50:47.080 --> 0:50:48.759 I would have believed the bank as well. If the 0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:50.759 bank told me that no, the check's good, I would 0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:51.279 have believed that. 0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:52.040 Yeah. 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:54.279 And it was the same with my transactions, like they 0:50:54.360 --> 0:50:57.000 confirmed like all my transactions to like no, no, no, 0:50:57.080 --> 0:50:59.520 everything looks good. It's just gonna take a few days. 0:50:59.560 --> 0:51:02.239 I'm like, so everything is okay. They're like, yeah, so 0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:04.560 that's when I get to debraud it even more because 0:51:05.000 --> 0:51:06.879 I trusted the bag. And when you come to them 0:51:06.880 --> 0:51:10.840 afterwards like, hey, this wasn't a correct VIRU transfer, and 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:12.640 they're like, oh, we can see if they're real or not. 0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:14.399 Like there are so many out there in the world 0:51:14.400 --> 0:51:16.920 that you're like, well, you sort of said. 0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:19.280 So you can always look back and you think, Okay, 0:51:19.320 --> 0:51:20.640 the transfers never came in. 0:51:20.760 --> 0:51:22.840 You know, why didn't you act sooner? 0:51:23.320 --> 0:51:25.239 And I just have to say it comes with the 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:27.640 coursive nature and the manipulation of the can. 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:30.640 Why are you still in it? Why are you still continuing? 0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:30.920 You know? 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:33.800 But I guess also at that point, you still believe 0:51:33.880 --> 0:51:35.800 that the person is the person that they've been saying 0:51:35.800 --> 0:51:38.080 they are for so long. And ye, something that we 0:51:38.200 --> 0:51:40.960 spoke about before we started the interview, and I think, like, 0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:42.920 we can talk about money till the cows come home. 0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:45.120 And I know that that's something that people prioritize and 0:51:45.200 --> 0:51:48.080 prize as being like the biggest thing that you've lost 0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:52.360 in this, But there is a bigger emotional conversation around 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:57.040 having a relationship giving consent to someone who is completely 0:51:57.120 --> 0:52:00.319 not the person that they pretended to be and you 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:03.480 experienced it on a friendship level, but Cecilia, you experienced 0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:06.080 it in a relationship level. And like, when you think 0:52:06.120 --> 0:52:08.520 that there is a whole other aspect to this where 0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:11.400 you're having sex with someone who is literally not the 0:52:11.440 --> 0:52:14.640 person they said they are, how do you recover from 0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:15.520 that side of things? 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:18.600 When I was put into the psychiatric ward, I had 0:52:18.640 --> 0:52:20.920 to do different types of tests because I was scared, 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:23.160 because you were thinking, if this guy can do this, 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:24.680 he doesn't give a damn about you. 0:52:24.680 --> 0:52:25.640 You know, he could give. 0:52:25.640 --> 0:52:29.080 You everything on the planets. You know, you were super 0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:33.000 scared just for your own physical health. It's another level 0:52:33.080 --> 0:52:36.120 to it that I feel is like and just emotional 0:52:36.239 --> 0:52:39.760 corercion and the manipulation that they're doing to your mind 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:44.040 regarding that they actually care about you being in reality, 0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:47.480 it's the total opposite. That you never believed that he 0:52:47.520 --> 0:52:50.080 could do this to you and then he was never 0:52:50.160 --> 0:52:50.720 that person. 0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:55.520 Panilla, what was your time frame so when you originally 0:52:55.520 --> 0:52:57.920 went on a date romantically, but you didn't feel like 0:52:57.920 --> 0:53:01.080 there was anything there and you what seems like a 0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:03.040 really close friendship. It seems like you were a bit 0:53:03.040 --> 0:53:04.960 of a go to for him. For a long time. 0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:07.720 What was the timeframe there? How long were you guys friends? 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:10.920 And how long was it before he started to ask 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:11.760 you for things? 0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:14.359 So I first matched with him, I think it was 0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:17.840 February twenty eighteen, and then I met him up like 0:53:17.840 --> 0:53:21.400 two weeks later, so and then he didn't start defrauding 0:53:21.440 --> 0:53:25.799 me until end of November, and then I found out 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:29.200 the truth, like end of January twenty nineteen. So I 0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:30.239 was with him or for a. 0:53:30.520 --> 0:53:32.480 Year, Yeah, pretty long time. 0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:34.560 I don't know if I can use the word grooming, 0:53:34.640 --> 0:53:39.160 but it's a very long manipulation. I guess in your case, Panilla. 0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:39.560 It sort of was. 0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:41.880 It sort of was like this slow grooming because he 0:53:41.920 --> 0:53:44.319 didn't ask you for anything for a long time. It's 0:53:44.360 --> 0:53:47.560 almost like he had you there as a backup, like 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:49.759 I will love bomb these other women and if that 0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:51.600 all fails and I need something, I'll go to my 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:53.640 inverted commas best friend. 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:56.200 Yeah, That's what I sort of felt like. And I 0:53:57.440 --> 0:54:00.359 actually sometimes I just have to laugh about things. I think, 0:54:00.440 --> 0:54:04.799 like sometimes I think he thought I was sitting on 0:54:04.840 --> 0:54:06.480 more money that I had. 0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:07.800 You're like, haha, sucker. 0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:12.000 Yeah, So like a little bit like because it sort 0:54:12.000 --> 0:54:14.040 of feels like it was like a carn on the car. 0:54:14.080 --> 0:54:17.960 And I don't know, because like I was traveling like everywhere, 0:54:18.000 --> 0:54:21.400 I did have cash and he did take my savings. 0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:24.080 But for me, it was just emotional things because like 0:54:24.120 --> 0:54:27.440 sometimes I could feel like I have cheating boyfriends before 0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:30.319 that have happened to me, and then it sort of 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:32.239 can think that they could lie to me. But like 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:34.120 when you sit in there with your best friend that 0:54:34.160 --> 0:54:37.600 you trust with everything, and I genuinely thought he was 0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:40.759 my best friend in this whole wide world. It was 0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:44.080 just I did not see it coming. I wasn't prepared 0:54:44.120 --> 0:54:47.319 for that, and they have basically used such a long 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:48.719 time to manipulate me. 0:54:49.160 --> 0:54:52.719 What also happened is like, whilst Cecilia you were in 0:54:52.760 --> 0:54:55.400 the depths of giving over this money to him, whilst 0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:57.680 he was using your credit cards, was this the same 0:54:57.760 --> 0:55:00.480 time that Penela you were able to be try and 0:55:00.520 --> 0:55:03.080 you were actually with Simon. Did these things coincide at 0:55:03.120 --> 0:55:03.760 the same time. 0:55:04.480 --> 0:55:07.880 Yeah, So I mean, like when Cecilia have this traumatic 0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:11.600 experience in Amsterdam where Peter the bodyguard comes in and 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:14.319 they say they have a threat situation, this is an emergency, 0:55:14.400 --> 0:55:17.719 he needs to leave. He's coming to me to like 0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:19.800 spend the Easter with getting stock colms. 0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:21.520 This is something that's been sitting with me for a 0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:23.480 long time that I want to know about. Anyone that 0:55:23.480 --> 0:55:24.960 hasn't seen it, I'm just going to quickly thill you in. 0:55:25.000 --> 0:55:27.680 But when the asking for the money starts, it's because 0:55:27.680 --> 0:55:30.320 his enemies are after him. It's because he's in grave danger. 0:55:30.680 --> 0:55:32.400 And he actually sends. 0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:35.640 You video footage and photos from a hospital with his 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:38.680 bodyguard where he's injured. They're bleeding, they've been cut. 0:55:38.880 --> 0:55:41.080 Did they actually do that to each other? 0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:43.600 Did they actually cut each other so that they could 0:55:43.600 --> 0:55:45.520 go to the hospital so they could take a photo. 0:55:45.920 --> 0:55:47.360 No, it actually happened. 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:50.080 I have seen him in a club and he is 0:55:50.200 --> 0:55:54.160 a cocky asshole, so I think, to be honest, they 0:55:54.200 --> 0:55:56.800 have been out partying and basically got it into a 0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:59.520 fight in the club. That's what I think honestly happened, 0:55:59.560 --> 0:56:00.360 because I talk. 0:56:00.239 --> 0:56:02.680 To the producer and I think it happened like with me. 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:05.359 It actually happened that night with me. And then he 0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:08.759 reused it because he wasn't in Copenhagen at the time, 0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:11.759 so like when he started using it and stuff, so 0:56:11.840 --> 0:56:15.040 it actually did happen. But I agree with Pranilla. Instead 0:56:15.040 --> 0:56:18.000 of being enemies, they were just being fucking cocky. 0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:20.040 You think he was just that good that he would 0:56:20.080 --> 0:56:22.200 just see the situation. He's like, Oh cool, we've got 0:56:22.239 --> 0:56:23.840 into a fight. Let's what can we do with this, 0:56:23.960 --> 0:56:25.080 Let's turn this into something. 0:56:25.520 --> 0:56:28.560 Yeah, it's so amazing how he did that on that 0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:29.239 night with me. 0:56:29.320 --> 0:56:31.440 You know those boys those Yeah, baby, we're in a 0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:32.920 war hoping. I would never have. 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:35.480 Asked you for anything if it wasn't serious and all 0:56:35.520 --> 0:56:37.640 that shit and all the cards and stuff. 0:56:37.320 --> 0:56:41.400 And I was like, yes, yes, this is real, this 0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:43.720 is real. I shouldn't laugh, and I'm not laughing. 0:56:43.880 --> 0:56:46.640 It's a defense mechanism we have. We have to laugh 0:56:46.680 --> 0:56:49.960 sometimes at ourself because we have been brainwashed and we're 0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:53.319 not brainwashed it, We're not in it. And I think 0:56:53.480 --> 0:56:57.120 it is a defense mechanism, is Cilia using. Sometimes we 0:56:57.239 --> 0:56:58.839 have to do it. It's not that we don't take 0:56:58.880 --> 0:57:00.920 it serious, but we have to do that just to 0:57:00.960 --> 0:57:02.440 be able to be normal humans. 0:57:02.440 --> 0:57:05.960 Sometimes as well, Panilla, when you were traveling with Simon, 0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:09.719 you were also traveling with Simon's girlfriend, which is a 0:57:09.760 --> 0:57:13.239 completely other woman, separate to Cecilia. Another woman who was 0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:16.800 involved in this and not involved in that. She was, 0:57:16.880 --> 0:57:19.920 you know, part of the scheme or part of the fraud, 0:57:20.000 --> 0:57:23.560 but she maybe was even defrauded herself. Did you have 0:57:23.640 --> 0:57:26.120 more of a relationship or more of a friendship with 0:57:26.160 --> 0:57:29.560 this other woman with the Simon's other girlfriend since you 0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:32.000 had had this time traveling together, more than what we 0:57:32.040 --> 0:57:33.160 saw in the documentary. 0:57:33.520 --> 0:57:36.800 Yeah, absolutely, And to be honest, like when everything went down, 0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:39.640 it was her that I care the most about because 0:57:39.720 --> 0:57:42.640 we had like a genuine friendship and we could be 0:57:42.720 --> 0:57:44.800 on the phone and texts and things. 0:57:44.560 --> 0:57:45.360 Like that as well. 0:57:45.440 --> 0:57:49.240 So no, I felt really really bad for her when 0:57:49.240 --> 0:57:51.640 I found out the truth and everything and the things 0:57:51.680 --> 0:57:53.600 I have to understand. Like I mean, for example, like 0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:56.240 I Mekonos. I was already there and I just said, 0:57:56.240 --> 0:57:58.720 why don't you come here? Like I am Meconos. So 0:57:58.760 --> 0:58:03.000 it's not like he's been taking me on these trips 0:58:03.000 --> 0:58:05.800 and stuff because he was my friend. I don't want 0:58:05.800 --> 0:58:08.680 to have my friends like pay out my whole toade 0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:10.800 and I did have my own money back then, so 0:58:10.960 --> 0:58:14.640 I didn't really need him to pay anything for me. 0:58:15.440 --> 0:58:18.120 I guess I just have so much curiosity around this 0:58:18.360 --> 0:58:20.840 other woman who in your mind he was in a 0:58:20.840 --> 0:58:23.800 committed relationship, and whether or not she had also been 0:58:23.840 --> 0:58:26.560 scammed out of money at the same time, that. 0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:29.160 Is something that she has to answer on. I mean, 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:32.240 I know what she had told me, but I know 0:58:32.320 --> 0:58:35.640 she not went in there with a bad intention or nothing, 0:58:35.720 --> 0:58:38.280 like she's a sweet girl. But I think she had 0:58:38.280 --> 0:58:40.640 to answer that. To be honest, I don't want to 0:58:40.800 --> 0:58:41.880 answer on her behalf. 0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:45.520 I think she's very properly brainwashed. Like I haven't had 0:58:45.520 --> 0:58:48.000 the same as her, but like it has gone some years. 0:58:48.000 --> 0:58:51.160 So I had some very contact with after everything came out, 0:58:51.280 --> 0:58:53.280 because I was like, you want to like reach out 0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:56.680 a hand to you, you know, but she's properly brainwashed. 0:58:56.720 --> 0:58:59.480 I think there are some more people that are falling 0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:01.120 even for there down than us. 0:59:01.320 --> 0:59:05.400 But when he and this other fraud girl did towards 0:59:05.440 --> 0:59:08.480 me and her when we were in Rome, that is 0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:11.760 on a whole other level. That was a spectacle. I 0:59:11.800 --> 0:59:14.560 went to meet up with him and his girlfriend in Rome, 0:59:14.600 --> 0:59:17.120 and then he also had one of his assistants there. 0:59:17.560 --> 0:59:21.600 She and Simon did a charade. They basically went to 0:59:21.640 --> 0:59:24.520 do like hidden meetings. She did explain how she'd been 0:59:24.560 --> 0:59:27.640 working for the company for so many years, but now 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:30.160 she only works with him. She could tell everything about 0:59:30.200 --> 0:59:32.640 the company, she could tell everything about the family. She 0:59:32.840 --> 0:59:36.920 genuinely had a LinkedIn profile that said she worked for 0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:39.800 LED Diamonds, and then she was also connected with all 0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:42.680 these people. So in some way or another, she managed 0:59:42.680 --> 0:59:44.840 to get all these people and ELID Diamonds on her 0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:45.880 LinkedIn as well. 0:59:46.200 --> 0:59:48.600 But I think it also goes to show how many 0:59:48.720 --> 0:59:51.200 layers to this deception that there is. Going back to 0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:55.240 this victim blaming mentality, when people who were trapped and 0:59:55.760 --> 0:59:58.840 taken down by someone who is literally a professional comment 0:59:59.440 --> 1:00:01.960 it's something that can truly happen to anyone, And I 1:00:02.000 --> 1:00:05.160 really hope that like when somebody listens to this podcast, 1:00:05.160 --> 1:00:07.200 when they watch this documentary, when they see that you 1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:11.520 were both completely normal, wonderful women who have just been 1:00:11.720 --> 1:00:15.600 absolutely taken advantage of by someone who approached the relationships 1:00:15.640 --> 1:00:18.760 that he created with you with intent to do harm. 1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:21.640 Yeah, I think that is the most like hurtful part 1:00:21.720 --> 1:00:25.240 that someone generally have done this, so many people to 1:00:25.320 --> 1:00:28.640 have went them there just to destroy your your life. 1:00:28.680 --> 1:00:30.880 That is like the very low points in life when 1:00:30.920 --> 1:00:33.720 you realize that you also have to understand that this 1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:36.200 is their full time job. This is like a running company. 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:37.520 They're very good at their job. 1:00:37.920 --> 1:00:40.320 Did you guys, ever see him again after it unraveled 1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:41.880 and you had these fights? Was there every time that 1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:43.920 you came in contact with him again? Did you try 1:00:43.960 --> 1:00:46.280 to Did you ever want some form of closure? I 1:00:46.320 --> 1:00:48.760 know you obviously wanted your money back, but we've just 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:50.920 spoken about there's so much more to this, so much 1:00:50.920 --> 1:00:52.800 more emotionally and soul crushing. 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:55.560 Did you want to see him? Did you want that closure? 1:00:56.040 --> 1:00:58.040 Tried to like call me it. We did have a 1:00:58.040 --> 1:01:00.280 conversation in the end of the night, and that's when 1:01:00.320 --> 1:01:02.600 he tried to get me on board into the scams 1:01:02.800 --> 1:01:05.840 and I just refused to and I was just totally heartbroken. 1:01:06.080 --> 1:01:09.320 And then after I wouldn't agree on that, he started 1:01:09.360 --> 1:01:11.880 to threaten me. And then he just said, well, I 1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:15.000 gave you one option, and now I have already paid 1:01:15.000 --> 1:01:17.920 a price on your head so you can count your 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:20.880 days to live, So thank you and bite basically, So, 1:01:21.640 --> 1:01:24.120 I mean I was scared for my life. I mean 1:01:24.160 --> 1:01:26.960 like this man, I mean I have talked to other 1:01:27.000 --> 1:01:28.920 women that have been in contact with him, like he 1:01:28.960 --> 1:01:32.120 even threatens to kill their children to silence them. 1:01:32.280 --> 1:01:34.040 They did not show that, did they. 1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:36.440 No, there is a lot that you haven't seen. You 1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:38.960 have seen our stories and what happened to us, and 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:41.360 it was too much to fit into the movie is 1:01:41.360 --> 1:01:45.040 still one hour fifty and there's a lot that haven't 1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:47.600 been unfold what happened and what he had done. 1:01:47.960 --> 1:01:48.720 But I mean. 1:01:49.080 --> 1:01:51.120 Sometimes I can get like when people are oh, you're 1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:52.720 the king Smer, I was like, this is not a 1:01:52.840 --> 1:01:56.520 normal human. I mean, this is a man that would 1:01:56.560 --> 1:02:01.800 threaten to kill children and you and women and basically 1:02:01.840 --> 1:02:03.160 destroys people life. 1:02:03.240 --> 1:02:05.680 So no, because he drags in because like with the 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:08.080 threat against me, and he said that we know you, 1:02:08.160 --> 1:02:11.120 we know your friends and family. So when you put 1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:13.480 in the Wii as well, you're wondering who else is 1:02:13.520 --> 1:02:16.640 out there? Like you get really really scared of it. 1:02:17.000 --> 1:02:19.200 So I reached out to him just one time in 1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:22.280 twenty twenty because I saw that he was you know, 1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:24.920 I had this lavish life and I hadn't had my 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:27.560 closure because I just blocked him. I wasn't able to 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:30.000 and you have that a bit, you know, he's never 1:02:30.040 --> 1:02:31.840 going to listen to you. So I wrote to him 1:02:31.880 --> 1:02:34.200 and then he just said that my life made him 1:02:34.200 --> 1:02:37.800 a superstar, that he's doing great in Israel, and that 1:02:38.120 --> 1:02:41.160 I'm the fraud and good luck, and that I criminal 1:02:41.240 --> 1:02:43.720 charges against me in Greece. So this guy is just 1:02:43.840 --> 1:02:46.880 it's no talking to him, it's no point of asking 1:02:47.000 --> 1:02:47.720 him anything. 1:02:48.640 --> 1:02:52.200 How do you even begin to recover or begin to 1:02:52.320 --> 1:02:55.840 like create safety for yourself when you are literally afraid 1:02:55.840 --> 1:02:57.600 for your life when something like this happens. 1:02:58.120 --> 1:03:01.120 Well, I got to hid an identity from the police 1:03:01.960 --> 1:03:05.080 here in Sweden and then I basically left the country. 1:03:05.120 --> 1:03:07.520 I left my house. I was scared even to see 1:03:07.560 --> 1:03:11.240 my friends, my family. I mean I left the country 1:03:11.440 --> 1:03:14.440 and just like I was in here, I was like 1:03:14.520 --> 1:03:17.960 faking my Instagram where I was like changing dates and 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:21.280 times and things because I was so scared. 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:23.640 And that's what he does to most of his victims. 1:03:23.640 --> 1:03:25.440 You know, they're not as strong as Pranilla in the 1:03:25.520 --> 1:03:28.200 end that she's actually doing going out and fighting the 1:03:28.240 --> 1:03:30.760 same with me, you know, like you get that threats 1:03:30.760 --> 1:03:33.000 and what do you do? Most people would never ever 1:03:33.080 --> 1:03:35.880 take that chance, but I think some of us are 1:03:35.920 --> 1:03:38.160 just like I just got that feeling like after being 1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:41.120 initially scared, that I can imagine that He's done this 1:03:41.200 --> 1:03:42.920 to a lot of people. I was thinking, and it 1:03:43.000 --> 1:03:43.680 stops now. 1:03:43.920 --> 1:03:46.400 But this is how he silenced them, and he secily 1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:49.200 just decided like it's not gonna I mean, like I 1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:51.440 was scared, but my fighting spirit never left that he 1:03:51.520 --> 1:03:53.000 was not going to get away with this. But of 1:03:53.000 --> 1:03:54.960 course I didn't want him like to find me. 1:03:55.600 --> 1:03:58.640 Because you don't know him anymore. What is he capable 1:03:58.760 --> 1:04:01.240 and his team? You know, because it's just not him? 1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:03.760 And I think that's so important. I realize could I 1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:05.440 never have done this by himself. 1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:08.320 Cecilia, Like I know you were so instrumental in the start, 1:04:08.480 --> 1:04:12.200 in like breaking this story, bringing some justice to wanting 1:04:12.240 --> 1:04:15.840 like public to know who this person is. When you 1:04:15.880 --> 1:04:18.560 are so frightened for your life, when there is so 1:04:18.680 --> 1:04:21.160 much writing on this and knowing that he has access 1:04:21.160 --> 1:04:23.320 to your friends and to your family, where do you 1:04:23.360 --> 1:04:24.320 get that strength from? 1:04:24.360 --> 1:04:24.440 Like? 1:04:24.480 --> 1:04:26.440 What is it in you that makes you go this 1:04:26.600 --> 1:04:29.000 is not okay? I need to make this as public 1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:32.200 as possible. It seems like such an incredible step for 1:04:32.240 --> 1:04:33.960 someone to take who's in your position. 1:04:34.720 --> 1:04:37.480 Yeah, I think I spent maybe a couple of weeks 1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:40.000 being fearful, you know, and just like what. 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:40.480 Should I do? 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:43.640 And then contacting police and they didn't care. I think 1:04:43.640 --> 1:04:46.160 it was more the feeling of not being taken seriously 1:04:46.280 --> 1:04:48.360 and knowing that he's still out there and that they're 1:04:48.360 --> 1:04:50.400 not going to do anything. No one wants to go 1:04:50.440 --> 1:04:52.439 to media with this type of story if they don't 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:53.160 really have to. 1:04:53.640 --> 1:04:55.520 It's almost like, oh, you chose it. And I was like, well, 1:04:55.560 --> 1:04:56.880 what do you do in this situation? 1:04:56.960 --> 1:04:59.480 I wish I got justice from the system, that the 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:02.160 police just did their job, but they wouldn't do it, 1:05:02.240 --> 1:05:04.400 So what do you do? And I was privileged enough 1:05:04.400 --> 1:05:06.840 of having a family that was really supporting. My mom 1:05:07.000 --> 1:05:08.960 was like my rock, and as long as you have 1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:12.120 some type of safety, then you can find the strength 1:05:12.160 --> 1:05:12.520 to do it. 1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:15.200 I don't think what people understand some times, like with 1:05:15.320 --> 1:05:17.600 me and Cecilia have done I mean like we basically 1:05:17.840 --> 1:05:20.040 forced them to do this in English. So when they 1:05:20.040 --> 1:05:22.960 contact me about this Norwegian girl, I was like, this 1:05:23.000 --> 1:05:25.880 is not just one Norwegian girl. I mean like I've 1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:29.640 seen him spend millions, a million that maybe covers half 1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:33.040 a month of his spendings. I mean like, if he's 1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:35.160 a fraud and he have done this, that means they 1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:37.520 have an entire team. They have done so much and 1:05:37.560 --> 1:05:41.240 we need to warn people. So I think what we wanted. 1:05:41.320 --> 1:05:43.480 We want to warn people who wanted to help people, 1:05:43.600 --> 1:05:46.280 so this doesn't happen to anyone else. It means Secilia 1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:48.880 just decided we don't care if we get drag because 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:50.600 if we're going to cover our faces, it's not going 1:05:50.640 --> 1:05:53.760 to have the same impact. So let's just go there, 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:55.800 hit us over with the bus, do whatever you want, 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:57.680 but you have to also do the peace in English. 1:05:57.680 --> 1:05:59.400 If you don't do it in English, like I'm not 1:05:59.400 --> 1:06:01.320 even going to be there, I'm not gonna do it. 1:06:01.600 --> 1:06:03.840 And I can just remember me as Sicilia in London, 1:06:04.080 --> 1:06:06.280 sitting in her room and just sitting an email in 1:06:06.360 --> 1:06:09.480 this to every news outlet we can find and just like, Hi, 1:06:09.520 --> 1:06:11.120 do you want to write about this? Can you share 1:06:11.200 --> 1:06:13.920 this as long as you show his face? Like everywhere, 1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:14.680 We've been. 1:06:14.560 --> 1:06:16.920 Shocked by the response from journalists and stuff that are 1:06:16.920 --> 1:06:19.480 just eating up these guys what he's saying or what 1:06:19.520 --> 1:06:22.000 he's posting. And I'm just like, it's such a double 1:06:22.080 --> 1:06:24.840 stander there that I'm like, it's so weird. 1:06:25.360 --> 1:06:27.600 I mean, we have seen the double standard in media, 1:06:27.640 --> 1:06:30.400 and we have seen what you both of you have 1:06:30.640 --> 1:06:34.280 received in the comment section on social media and people's 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:37.800 commentary around your story. But I think for the most part, 1:06:37.960 --> 1:06:41.760 most people who have seen your story understand the bravery 1:06:41.800 --> 1:06:44.240 that it takes that you have shared this, and in 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:47.240 doing so, you have protected so many other women to 1:06:47.360 --> 1:06:51.040 falling victim to his fraud and his face. Simon's face 1:06:51.200 --> 1:06:54.840 is the most recognized face in the whole world at 1:06:54.840 --> 1:06:56.920 the moment because of this Netflix documentary. 1:06:57.080 --> 1:06:58.920 Let me just show you one thing right now on 1:06:59.000 --> 1:07:02.600 that this is So we're in Bondi Beach in Australia, Sydney, Australia. 1:07:02.640 --> 1:07:03.480 Oh god, I've. 1:07:03.320 --> 1:07:07.680 Seen this, yes, So I was walking down the street today. 1:07:07.760 --> 1:07:08.840 I'm going to show you guys. 1:07:09.080 --> 1:07:12.880 This poster is everywhere all over Sydney and over the East. 1:07:12.960 --> 1:07:13.960 Okay, can you see it? 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:15.360 Yeah? 1:07:15.160 --> 1:07:17.160 Yeah, it's so awesome, it's amazing. 1:07:17.400 --> 1:07:18.880 It just says fuck the Tinder swindler. 1:07:19.200 --> 1:07:21.840 I had my Australian friends sending it to me, so 1:07:22.360 --> 1:07:24.560 I was dying when I saw it. I was like, 1:07:24.720 --> 1:07:28.560 this is so funny. I love Bondai beachrona for. 1:07:28.560 --> 1:07:31.840 Both of you. Cecilia Panilla like going through this experience 1:07:32.400 --> 1:07:36.560 and having your trust in someone completely crushed in the 1:07:36.600 --> 1:07:41.600 most just the most unbelievable way. How do you then, like, 1:07:41.720 --> 1:07:44.600 where are you guys at now in terms of like dating, 1:07:44.680 --> 1:07:48.440 your ability to trust people, even just making new friends. 1:07:48.720 --> 1:07:51.280 How has this impacted you in how you make and 1:07:51.320 --> 1:07:52.840 maintain your relationships. 1:07:53.120 --> 1:07:55.160 I can see that, like we talked about before, you 1:07:55.200 --> 1:07:58.720 can have good periods and bad periods. I can find 1:07:58.760 --> 1:08:01.240 some times when I'm in a bad period can be 1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:04.280 if someone does something nice towards me, I can sometimes 1:08:04.320 --> 1:08:07.480 think that they have like an evil hidden agenda behind it. 1:08:08.200 --> 1:08:11.000 But in the good times, I mean, like me and Secily, 1:08:11.040 --> 1:08:13.000 we also have like so much fun together. I mean, 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:16.680 like we can't mistrust an entire world, Like then the 1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:18.920 world wouldn't be so nice to live in. I mean, 1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:23.120 like it's not we don't trust people, but maybe when 1:08:23.120 --> 1:08:25.000 we have bad periods. 1:08:25.200 --> 1:08:27.040 She had just taken so much from us, you know, 1:08:27.120 --> 1:08:30.200 and when it comes to relationships and stuff like I 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:32.120 don't want to live my life being bitter and not 1:08:32.200 --> 1:08:35.400 trusting people, because then my entire life would be ruined. 1:08:35.439 --> 1:08:37.479 So but of course I've had a huge effect, and 1:08:37.520 --> 1:08:39.320 we've gone through a lot in the years after, so 1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:42.479 it hasn't been easy forming those deep relationships, but I 1:08:42.520 --> 1:08:44.760 hope with this and finally, like closing a bit of 1:08:44.760 --> 1:08:46.760 a chapter that I don't need to speak like that 1:08:46.800 --> 1:08:49.280 you can actually properly heal and form. 1:08:49.520 --> 1:08:51.200 Yeah, those relationships that you want to. 1:08:51.280 --> 1:08:52.720 And I think we also don't want to be a 1:08:52.800 --> 1:08:55.599 victim our entire life. I mean, like we went through 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:58.680 a trauma. We still have effects from the trauma and 1:08:58.760 --> 1:09:01.519 really bad things happen to but it doesn't say who 1:09:01.560 --> 1:09:05.320 we are as a person. I mean, you're best friends. 1:09:05.320 --> 1:09:07.599 We want to go out and just just have fun 1:09:07.680 --> 1:09:11.040 and laugh about things sometimes as well, so it's not 1:09:11.080 --> 1:09:13.200 like we sit home and cry every day. I mean 1:09:13.280 --> 1:09:14.880 we still have fun. 1:09:16.040 --> 1:09:18.200 It's amazing. You absolutely can't let it define you, and 1:09:18.240 --> 1:09:20.080 I'm glad that you are not. And before I let 1:09:20.080 --> 1:09:22.360 you go, one last question that I think everyone wants 1:09:22.360 --> 1:09:25.640 to know. Are you both still on Tinder and or 1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:27.200 are you in love? 1:09:27.320 --> 1:09:28.120 Have you met anyone? 1:09:28.360 --> 1:09:30.360 I am not on any dating app, and I think 1:09:30.400 --> 1:09:32.880 I've been Tinder my entire life like four months. But 1:09:32.920 --> 1:09:39.240 I'm the famous Tinder woman, Okay. 1:09:39.120 --> 1:09:41.800 I am the tender experts, So of course I'm still 1:09:41.800 --> 1:09:44.519 on Tinder. But I am not like using it. I 1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:47.320 haven't even had time to say the least, So I 1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:49.599 just think it's more fascinating just to see if some 1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:51.800 of the men that I've matched up with are recognizing me. 1:09:51.840 --> 1:09:53.839 I think that's even more funnier. And see how awkward 1:09:53.880 --> 1:09:54.880 they're writing high I. 1:09:54.840 --> 1:09:56.799 See that you're the girl from the Tender Spindler. 1:09:57.280 --> 1:10:00.000 Very sorry it happened to you. 1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:01.679 Kinda should be sponsoring you, guys. 1:10:01.720 --> 1:10:03.120 Actually, maybe we'll get them to sponsor this. 1:10:03.080 --> 1:10:05.599 Airp you please. 1:10:06.280 --> 1:10:08.479 Cecilia and Panilla, thank you so much for joining us 1:10:08.479 --> 1:10:11.120 with both incredible women that I'm just so grateful you 1:10:11.160 --> 1:10:12.720 came on here to tell your story today and I 1:10:12.760 --> 1:10:15.639 wish you nothing but the absolute best in life. 1:10:15.760 --> 1:10:17.240 Oh, thank you so much. 1:10:17.320 --> 1:10:19.880 Thank you for having us has such cool questions. It 1:10:19.960 --> 1:10:21.960 was a very different one, so it was really cool. 1:10:22.560 --> 1:10:25.120 Guys. We would normally get into our suck and suite, 1:10:25.200 --> 1:10:27.040 but there were and I mentioned it in the beginning 1:10:27.080 --> 1:10:29.559 of this episode. There have been some developments since we 1:10:29.600 --> 1:10:33.200 actually spoke to Cecilia and Panilla. In regards to Simon, 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:37.040 he's come out with his own statement around the Netflix series. Firstly, 1:10:37.520 --> 1:10:41.000 he has said that the Netflix series is completely fabricated 1:10:41.080 --> 1:10:43.320 that he is not a fraud star. And I just think, 1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:45.960 like anybody who's watched that Netflix series, anyone who's spoken 1:10:45.960 --> 1:10:48.840 to Sicilia and Panilla, are going to believe their story. So, Bro, 1:10:48.880 --> 1:10:50.919 you've been in jail twice. You're going in jail twice, 1:10:51.080 --> 1:10:53.839 like literally, you have been criminally charged for this. Simon 1:10:53.960 --> 1:10:57.439 ended up serving five months of his almost two year sentence, 1:10:57.600 --> 1:11:00.519 which was off the back of him forging part Sports. 1:11:00.720 --> 1:11:02.479 So that happened, and that was all linked in to 1:11:02.560 --> 1:11:05.360 the time that Cecilia and Panilla were being scammed. He 1:11:05.439 --> 1:11:08.160 hasn't been held to accountability yet for the amount of 1:11:08.200 --> 1:11:09.880 money that he scammed out of these women, and I 1:11:09.880 --> 1:11:12.320 think that that is one of the huge and biggest 1:11:12.360 --> 1:11:15.040 tragedies of this But something that I wanted to talk 1:11:15.080 --> 1:11:19.080 about quickly before we summed up everything is this idea 1:11:19.160 --> 1:11:23.840 about Netflix and with this huge mass consumption of the 1:11:23.880 --> 1:11:26.439 girl's story, of the women's story who have been conned, 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:29.720 is the infamacy that comes with the Netflix series. So 1:11:29.760 --> 1:11:32.360 Simon's face and Simon's name is one of the most 1:11:32.800 --> 1:11:35.720 well known and easily recognizable face in the world at 1:11:35.720 --> 1:11:38.960 the moment, but he's also started to become and be 1:11:39.040 --> 1:11:41.680 able to earn an income off this. He has just 1:11:41.720 --> 1:11:43.960 signed a manager in the United States. He wants to 1:11:44.000 --> 1:11:46.080 go to Hollywood. He wants to go to Hollywood. He 1:11:46.120 --> 1:11:48.680 wants to start a dating show. He also is now 1:11:48.720 --> 1:11:49.120 to why. 1:11:49.200 --> 1:11:50.720 I mean, I'm sorry, I would that is the last 1:11:50.720 --> 1:11:51.240 show in history. 1:11:51.240 --> 1:11:51.800 I'd be going on. 1:11:52.000 --> 1:11:54.040 Imagine if you took dating advice from a con man 1:11:54.439 --> 1:11:57.280 like but people going, this is the this is the 1:11:57.360 --> 1:11:58.160 crazy thing. 1:11:58.680 --> 1:12:01.000 I have no doubt it. So cooked. 1:12:01.720 --> 1:12:04.000 Success is going to come to him in some fucked 1:12:04.040 --> 1:12:06.679 up roundabout way because we're obsessed with these people, because 1:12:07.479 --> 1:12:10.559 he's a horrible human that was sending death threats to people, 1:12:10.560 --> 1:12:12.880 and we're going to celebrate him and give him a platform. 1:12:12.920 --> 1:12:15.000 And that's the thing that I think is just so toxic. 1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:17.240 And I know that that's one of the points of 1:12:17.280 --> 1:12:20.559 conversation that really upset Cecilia and Panilla. We did ask 1:12:20.600 --> 1:12:22.760 them a little bit actually got edited out of the 1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:26.759 final interview because it was a bit emotional and heated. 1:12:27.080 --> 1:12:30.000 I asked Cecilia how she felt about the fact that 1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:33.160 Simon is still on TikTok and has amassed hundreds of 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:36.479 thousands of followers, on TikTok. His Instagram's been taken down 1:12:36.479 --> 1:12:39.000 by Instagram, which is a huge step because usually Instagram 1:12:39.040 --> 1:12:42.040 never deletes anything. Tinder also and he's been deleted and 1:12:42.080 --> 1:12:45.839 blocked from opening up a Tinder, but he still has TikTok, 1:12:46.120 --> 1:12:48.920 and he also is now charging for cameos. And it 1:12:49.000 --> 1:12:53.600 must be just so infuriating on so many levels. Firstly, 1:12:54.040 --> 1:12:56.200 the fact that he is a con man. He's still 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:59.160 perpetuating even to the media, that he's living this high life. 1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:01.400 And Cecilia and Pane don't believe that he's still a 1:13:01.439 --> 1:13:04.760 millionaire or a billionaire. Sicilian Panilla actually think that even 1:13:04.800 --> 1:13:08.080 the way he's perpetuating himself to media now is a scam. 1:13:08.160 --> 1:13:10.800 So the media have been scammed by his lives as well, 1:13:10.800 --> 1:13:12.960 because we're all buying into the fact that he's still 1:13:13.000 --> 1:13:17.360 living this luxurious and luscious high life. Whereas really, where 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:19.439 would he be getting his income from? And that was 1:13:19.479 --> 1:13:23.400 the question that Cecily opposed. But also how can somebody 1:13:23.400 --> 1:13:27.799 who is literally a criminal, who is infamous for doing 1:13:27.920 --> 1:13:30.000 so much hurt and so much damage to these women 1:13:30.240 --> 1:13:32.240 be able to earn an income through a company and 1:13:32.280 --> 1:13:34.439 a platform like cameo and I just think that for 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:38.439 Cameo to platform him, for any social media to be 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:41.400 able to say yep, come here, and it glorifies what 1:13:41.520 --> 1:13:43.200 he's done. It kind of says, look what you can 1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:45.519 get away with, Look what you can achieve if you 1:13:45.600 --> 1:13:48.160 do this to other people. I just think it's truly unconscionable. 1:13:48.439 --> 1:13:50.880 Well, he also wants to start and like, I mean, look, 1:13:50.920 --> 1:13:53.120 this is going to be some direct competition. He also 1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:54.960 wants to start a dating podcast as well, like a 1:13:55.000 --> 1:13:58.280 relationship podcast. It's beyond me what advice people going to 1:13:58.320 --> 1:14:01.280 get from him, because there's no part of him that 1:14:01.400 --> 1:14:02.960 is there's nothing that is true. 1:14:03.120 --> 1:14:05.360 But I mean it's irrelevant. It's irrelevant how or what 1:14:05.439 --> 1:14:07.680 he does. The fact is that he should not be 1:14:07.800 --> 1:14:11.120 able to earn an income or become famous because of 1:14:11.160 --> 1:14:13.559 what he's done to these women. And truly, I think 1:14:13.560 --> 1:14:16.520 that that is the one dark side of Netflix documentaries 1:14:16.600 --> 1:14:19.639 is that people who are criminals, who are deeply flawed, 1:14:20.040 --> 1:14:23.040 almost become immortalized because we're obsessed with the story. 1:14:23.200 --> 1:14:25.280 Well, the thing I don't understand too, is so he's 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:27.800 just come out yesterday or the day before and said 1:14:27.840 --> 1:14:30.080 I'm not the Tindersminlller. I was just a single person 1:14:30.120 --> 1:14:31.560 that was trying to date. I didn't do any of 1:14:31.600 --> 1:14:34.120 the above. This is literally what he's saying. But when 1:14:34.200 --> 1:14:36.760 he made his reappearance on Instagram for the first time 1:14:36.800 --> 1:14:40.320 in TikTok after the documentary, he was posting photos with 1:14:40.360 --> 1:14:45.400 the hashtag you paid for this, so piculaining simon, what's 1:14:45.400 --> 1:14:47.200 it going to be. You're either going to claim and 1:14:47.240 --> 1:14:49.400 gloat that you did this hashtag you paid for this, 1:14:50.120 --> 1:14:51.800 or you're going to say it's not meaning you're going 1:14:51.840 --> 1:14:53.840 to deny it. But I think he's just completely playing 1:14:53.880 --> 1:14:56.879 the media like he's played every single person. It's horrible 1:14:56.880 --> 1:14:58.720 that he's making money and anyone quickly that doesn't know 1:14:58.720 --> 1:15:01.040 what Cameo is. It's just an account where people pay 1:15:01.400 --> 1:15:05.280 for personalized videos of famous people essentially, and he's he's 1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:07.960 charging around five hundred dollars for a personal video and 1:15:08.040 --> 1:15:10.960 up to fifteen hundred dollars for business videos. This is 1:15:10.960 --> 1:15:13.360 literally just of him recording himself for a couple of 1:15:13.360 --> 1:15:15.439 minutes and sending it to someone they're paying for it. 1:15:15.479 --> 1:15:18.439 So it's absolutely despicable. And one thing I did find. 1:15:18.439 --> 1:15:20.759 Really lobby Cameo to get him off the side, totally 1:15:20.800 --> 1:15:22.320 sus me off. But this is the thing. 1:15:22.920 --> 1:15:24.840 There is no company or person in the world right 1:15:24.840 --> 1:15:27.640 now that doesn't know who he is and what he 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:30.360 has done. So for a company to turn a blind 1:15:30.360 --> 1:15:32.840 eye to that and let him do what he's doing 1:15:32.840 --> 1:15:35.160 and make money from it is very, very disappointed in 1:15:35.200 --> 1:15:35.679 my eyes. 1:15:35.840 --> 1:15:37.479 I mean, it's one thing, isn't it, Like, yes, he 1:15:37.520 --> 1:15:41.000 has these platforms, is anybody buying Is anybody buying the cameos? 1:15:41.040 --> 1:15:43.040 We don't know one hundred percent they are, but they 1:15:43.040 --> 1:15:43.400 would be. 1:15:43.560 --> 1:15:43.800 Yeah. 1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:47.080 Last thing I wanted to add was just for anyone 1:15:47.080 --> 1:15:50.400 that is still thinking that these women are crazy and 1:15:50.439 --> 1:15:53.360 silly women to have done that. The Guardian reported that 1:15:53.439 --> 1:15:58.440 last year twenty twenty one, one year alone, romantic cons 1:15:58.760 --> 1:16:02.800 added up to one billion dollars one billion dollars. So 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:05.680 it's not just these women that are being scammed. This 1:16:05.840 --> 1:16:08.599 is a real, real problem. Twenty twenty one, twelve months, 1:16:08.640 --> 1:16:11.080 a billion dollars just in romantic scam. So just think 1:16:11.080 --> 1:16:13.599 about that next time you're trying to judge someone, especially 1:16:13.600 --> 1:16:14.280 these women. 1:16:14.120 --> 1:16:16.960 But also on that. It just shows the depth of 1:16:17.000 --> 1:16:21.160 empathy that some people have and also how powerful wanting 1:16:21.200 --> 1:16:23.640 to be loved. Is how powerful wanting to be in 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:26.880 a relationship, wanting someone to care about you and putting 1:16:26.920 --> 1:16:29.679 all of your love and energy and belief in somebody 1:16:29.720 --> 1:16:32.479 like that is powerful shit. And I don't think that 1:16:32.560 --> 1:16:34.679 we can exactly like you said earlier with the whole 1:16:34.720 --> 1:16:38.360 grace tame thing like blaming somebody for being the victim 1:16:38.400 --> 1:16:41.160 of someone else's cruelty is truly truly awful. 1:16:41.200 --> 1:16:42.800 Well, at the end of the day, people giving them 1:16:42.800 --> 1:16:45.439 a hard time for literally being trusting people and believing 1:16:45.439 --> 1:16:47.840 that they were in a relationship. But anyway, we hope 1:16:47.880 --> 1:16:49.800 you guys loved that. We hope you learned something from 1:16:49.800 --> 1:16:52.120 listening to these women. I know we absolutely did. There 1:16:52.120 --> 1:16:55.120 were definitely some eye opening moments, and I'm really grateful 1:16:55.120 --> 1:16:57.639 they came on the pod. Let's finish up the episode 1:16:57.680 --> 1:17:00.400 with our highlight now Lowlan, our suck, and our sweet 1:17:00.439 --> 1:17:02.240 of the week. I'm going to go first. My stuck 1:17:02.280 --> 1:17:09.120 broke out with Jordan Mabing on sweet Lolocano cute my sweet. 1:17:09.160 --> 1:17:10.960 I'm like, and everything is on fire and I want 1:17:10.960 --> 1:17:12.599 to put my life in the bin. But yay, let's 1:17:12.640 --> 1:17:15.559 talk about my sweet now. My coffee was nice. Fuck everything, 1:17:15.840 --> 1:17:16.960 my sweet fuck the world. 1:17:17.040 --> 1:17:21.280 Ah no, my sweet would be. It's been a really 1:17:21.360 --> 1:17:23.479 tough couple of weeks, so I'm really gonna have to 1:17:23.520 --> 1:17:25.719 dig deep here, Lauriel. 1:17:25.920 --> 1:17:28.520 Yeah, I mean, you live in a beautiful new apartment. 1:17:29.240 --> 1:17:32.160 You've got an amazing steak, my sweet. I have a 1:17:32.160 --> 1:17:34.960 great co host. Yeah, all of them, both, my sweet is. 1:17:35.080 --> 1:17:38.559 I had so much satisfaction from building this new mansion 1:17:38.600 --> 1:17:41.200 kennel for Dalilah. I really went above and beyond to 1:17:41.240 --> 1:17:43.639 build her a little home. And it was really hard 1:17:43.680 --> 1:17:46.120 to build this kennel on my own from physically like 1:17:46.240 --> 1:17:48.479 trying to hold up these panels, like I didn't have 1:17:48.560 --> 1:17:51.360 enough hands trying to hold up these panels, use screwdrivers, 1:17:51.439 --> 1:17:53.360 put things in here and there. It kept falling over. 1:17:53.439 --> 1:17:54.280 It was very difficult. 1:17:54.479 --> 1:17:55.720 I didn't want to give up because I was like, 1:17:55.720 --> 1:17:57.040 I'm going to do this, like I'm going to be 1:17:57.040 --> 1:17:59.439 this independent woman, don't need no man, you know, all 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:00.000 that kind of stuff. 1:18:00.479 --> 1:18:02.720 And I nailed it. And the satisfaction I was like, 1:18:02.880 --> 1:18:04.160 is it? I was like, is this sad? 1:18:04.200 --> 1:18:05.400 How much satisfaction I have? 1:18:05.680 --> 1:18:08.640 Absolutely not. I think anybody listening to this who's like 1:18:08.680 --> 1:18:11.760 ever assembled a flat pack piece of furniture all by themselves, 1:18:11.800 --> 1:18:13.720 without the help of a man. It was like at 1:18:13.720 --> 1:18:17.439 the end they were like, yeah, I've got there. You 1:18:17.560 --> 1:18:19.559 got hey, I can do this all on my own, 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:22.439 so I can completely relate to that. What's yours. My 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:24.200 suck for the week is that we didn't pay our 1:18:24.200 --> 1:18:26.160 gas bill, and yesterday our gas was to stand off, 1:18:26.160 --> 1:18:28.519 which meant I've had two cold showers now and my 1:18:28.600 --> 1:18:30.559 children everything had to be miracles. Just don't turn my 1:18:30.560 --> 1:18:32.840 electricity off. Can I just add that, I'm pretty sure 1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:35.599 we had this discussion lots of times. I did tell 1:18:35.640 --> 1:18:36.799 you what was going to happen. 1:18:36.920 --> 1:18:37.160 We did. 1:18:37.280 --> 1:18:39.320 I also thought that they gave you a bit longer, 1:18:39.479 --> 1:18:40.840 like it's only been a couple of weeks. 1:18:40.840 --> 1:18:42.880 You how your month, how much free gas you want? 1:18:44.000 --> 1:18:45.320 I mean you still have to pay for it, you 1:18:45.360 --> 1:18:48.240 just pay for it retrospectively. But yeah, energy is streler. 1:18:48.360 --> 1:18:50.439 They were fucking on it. Literally from the second we 1:18:50.479 --> 1:18:50.800 moved in. 1:18:50.840 --> 1:18:52.839 They were like, you don't live here, pay your gas, 1:18:53.000 --> 1:18:54.880 pay your new gas. Fuck you turn your gas so 1:18:54.960 --> 1:18:56.640 I got cameras in the house. Just a bit of 1:18:56.640 --> 1:18:58.240 a buffer would have been nice. Do you know what 1:18:58.400 --> 1:19:01.080 like a month? Adulting is so hard. 1:19:00.840 --> 1:19:02.800 Like people underestimate how hard it is to be an 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:03.879 adult and when you. 1:19:04.120 --> 1:19:06.599 Literally every person listening to this podcast is doing it though, 1:19:06.680 --> 1:19:08.559 But that's what I mean. But like it's the things 1:19:08.600 --> 1:19:09.200 that you think about. 1:19:09.240 --> 1:19:11.120 And this is what I really realized, since you know, 1:19:11.160 --> 1:19:13.240 I've been on my own for so long in terms 1:19:13.280 --> 1:19:15.160 of living on my own, doing life, even with Jordan 1:19:15.240 --> 1:19:17.040 for the last year, like God, that was still my 1:19:17.080 --> 1:19:19.080 own the whole time, like he didn't live in another country. 1:19:19.479 --> 1:19:21.920 But I never really realized how much I relied on 1:19:22.120 --> 1:19:24.160 like my dad or the father thing or your parents 1:19:24.320 --> 1:19:26.439 for the things that you don't realize, like moving home. 1:19:26.640 --> 1:19:28.320 You don't just pick your furniture up and put it in. 1:19:28.600 --> 1:19:31.400 You've got to cancel everything, all the electricity, all the gas, 1:19:31.479 --> 1:19:32.840 all the internet. Then you've got to call up and 1:19:32.840 --> 1:19:34.120 then you've got to redirect it, and then you've got 1:19:34.160 --> 1:19:36.040 to make sure it's on in time. It's like you 1:19:36.160 --> 1:19:37.920 have to do so much stuff, and I'm like, just 1:19:37.960 --> 1:19:39.599 let me live, like I've got my bed, just let 1:19:39.640 --> 1:19:40.080 me live here. 1:19:40.160 --> 1:19:42.559 It's the admin. It's the life admin. Look, I mean, 1:19:43.200 --> 1:19:45.880 you still can't do I weaponized some confidence. I thought 1:19:45.880 --> 1:19:47.320 Matt was going to do it because I found that 1:19:47.360 --> 1:19:49.519 shit too hard and he didn't do it, and then 1:19:49.520 --> 1:19:51.639 no one did it, and so now we have no gas, 1:19:51.680 --> 1:19:53.720 which we have to work out today. But anyway, and 1:19:53.840 --> 1:19:57.080 my sweet for the week is just I like, Lolo 1:19:57.200 --> 1:20:00.280 is almost walking and she had kind of I'm out 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:02.760 the other side of a really tricky phase. I don't 1:20:02.760 --> 1:20:04.760 know if I really spoke about it, but she went 1:20:04.760 --> 1:20:07.000 through this phase she just sucked for a while. Man, 1:20:07.160 --> 1:20:09.080 it was so hard. She just went through this phase 1:20:09.120 --> 1:20:12.320 of screaming about everything, and I just felt so beat down. 1:20:12.520 --> 1:20:14.400 And I know that everyone sees her on Instagram and 1:20:14.439 --> 1:20:17.040 says like she's the happiest baby. She truly wasn't. For 1:20:17.040 --> 1:20:19.320 a little while there, she was happy or she was screaming. 1:20:19.360 --> 1:20:21.920 She only had two settings, and it was like pretty 1:20:22.320 --> 1:20:25.000 soul crushing zero to one hundred real quick. Yeah, it 1:20:25.040 --> 1:20:27.040 was like she was smiling or she was screaming, and 1:20:27.080 --> 1:20:28.760 that was it. There was no chill, there was no 1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:31.280 one between. And I just think maybe she was having 1:20:31.320 --> 1:20:35.360 a growth spurt. There was some weird changes, baby leaps 1:20:35.439 --> 1:20:37.719 or something happening. And now we're on the other side 1:20:38.080 --> 1:20:40.680 and I'm really enjoying being around her again. And I 1:20:40.680 --> 1:20:42.360 know that sounds horrible, but there was like a period 1:20:42.400 --> 1:20:43.800 there where I was like, wow, well I'm gonna have 1:20:43.840 --> 1:20:45.400 to get up and do this parenting thing today and 1:20:45.439 --> 1:20:46.320 I just don't have it in me. 1:20:46.400 --> 1:20:48.120 But of course you're not going to enjoy And it's 1:20:48.120 --> 1:20:49.679 not that it's your child. It's not that you don't 1:20:49.720 --> 1:20:51.000 enjoy your child. And of course you're not going to 1:20:51.080 --> 1:20:54.000 enjoy being around and we'll just say something. Of course 1:20:54.000 --> 1:20:57.920 you're not going to enjoy being around something that incessantly screaming. 1:20:57.600 --> 1:20:59.280 At the top of their lung. You can call her 1:20:59.280 --> 1:21:01.720 a child, which I know, I add something I know, 1:21:01.840 --> 1:21:03.479 but like I mean, I mean anything. It's just say 1:21:03.479 --> 1:21:06.320 it was like a dog howling for six hours. You 1:21:06.320 --> 1:21:08.639 don't want to be around a child that is screaming. 1:21:08.680 --> 1:21:10.439 And it's not just that it was screaming for like 1:21:10.840 --> 1:21:12.760 an hour or half an hour, like she was going 1:21:12.840 --> 1:21:15.320 through a really hard time. It would be hours on end. 1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:16.880 So I don't think you need to feel bad for 1:21:16.920 --> 1:21:18.880 saying I need to step out for a bit of 1:21:18.880 --> 1:21:19.240 fresh air. 1:21:19.320 --> 1:21:21.000 Yeah, And I think every mom goes through it, like 1:21:21.000 --> 1:21:23.720 these periods where you think I'm loving my time with 1:21:23.720 --> 1:21:25.880 my kids, like my kids are incredible, and then you 1:21:25.880 --> 1:21:28.880 have times where you're like, this is really challenging and 1:21:29.240 --> 1:21:31.479 I'm not as much as I love my children, I'm 1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:34.040 not enjoying their time as much as what I normally 1:21:34.080 --> 1:21:37.679 would because they are going through a difficult leap. Emotions 1:21:37.720 --> 1:21:40.240 are bigger than their bodies. Things are just a bit 1:21:40.280 --> 1:21:42.360 more challenging, and you kind of work through it. So, 1:21:42.880 --> 1:21:44.720 I mean, I knew it was a phase. I knew 1:21:44.720 --> 1:21:46.200 we would get through to the other side, but the 1:21:46.240 --> 1:21:49.000 phase was really hard, and I was feeling really really 1:21:49.120 --> 1:21:54.080 just emotionally beat down, and the unrelentingness of parenting sometimes 1:21:54.120 --> 1:21:54.920 just creeps up on you. 1:21:55.040 --> 1:21:56.640 Yeah, And there were times that Laura would walk in 1:21:56.680 --> 1:21:57.960 and I was like, how are you and she would 1:21:57.960 --> 1:21:59.640 just cry to you. They were just well, we just 1:21:59.640 --> 1:22:01.679 both sit there and crying. We're like, this is so 1:22:01.880 --> 1:22:04.360 fucking funny in a not funny way, like we shouldn't 1:22:04.400 --> 1:22:06.200 be laughing, but we would cry laugh because we were 1:22:06.280 --> 1:22:08.320 just both at like our wits end. But can I 1:22:08.360 --> 1:22:10.000 just say saying, Britt, I know that this has been, 1:22:10.080 --> 1:22:11.840 in a lot of ways a hard episode for you, 1:22:11.880 --> 1:22:14.719 and I know that you aren't ready to talk about 1:22:14.760 --> 1:22:16.840 the full scope of things or like, you know, just 1:22:17.080 --> 1:22:19.519 even it doesn't come easily to talk about heartbreak when 1:22:19.520 --> 1:22:21.040 you're actually going through the heartbreak. 1:22:21.520 --> 1:22:24.479 I'm so fucking proud of you for how you had 1:22:24.520 --> 1:22:26.920 big things happening in your life and you have still 1:22:27.040 --> 1:22:29.360 showed up to the podcast. You have still put on 1:22:29.439 --> 1:22:31.439 you know, put on some makeup, fucking pulled on your 1:22:31.439 --> 1:22:32.320 pants and like. 1:22:32.400 --> 1:22:34.559 Sometimes there was no pants or no makeup, but just. 1:22:34.479 --> 1:22:36.960 Cracked on with it, you know, And as much as like, 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:39.160 I know how hard that was, and I don't think 1:22:39.200 --> 1:22:42.679 you give yourself enough credit for just how how well 1:22:42.720 --> 1:22:45.280 you have managed to put things together when everything else 1:22:45.280 --> 1:22:47.200 has been going to shit. And I'm super proud of you. 1:22:47.360 --> 1:22:49.080 Thank you, love, because I do not feel like I've 1:22:49.120 --> 1:22:49.679 had it together. 1:22:49.760 --> 1:22:53.000 But here we are fake news. I pretended to be Okay, 1:22:53.439 --> 1:22:56.479 I am at night aar so yeah, she's an actress. Anyway, Guys, 1:22:56.520 --> 1:22:59.760 if you have loved the episode, please jump on leave 1:22:59.840 --> 1:23:01.760 us review. If you are a scullywag and you've been 1:23:01.760 --> 1:23:03.800 listening for so long and haven't left one yet, where 1:23:03.800 --> 1:23:06.719 you at? If you have an accidentally unfiltered story for us, 1:23:06.840 --> 1:23:08.920 or you want to join the podcast group, we have 1:23:09.000 --> 1:23:11.960 our Instagram which is Life Uncut Podcast, and we also 1:23:12.040 --> 1:23:14.240 have the Facebook community, so if you're an adult and 1:23:14.280 --> 1:23:16.400 you want to make adult friends, you can jump on there. 1:23:16.520 --> 1:23:19.800 It's called Life Uncut Discussion Group on Facebook and that 1:23:19.960 --> 1:23:22.080 is it from us Sell you mum tea, dad tea, 1:23:22.120 --> 1:23:25.040 dog tea friends and share the love because we love 1:23:25.160 --> 1:23:27.519 that I just had a testy pop