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Speaker 1: This is a podcast about failure with me. Lola Berry, author, nutritionist,

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Speaker 1: and yoga teacher join me as we get to know

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Speaker 1: these guests and learn about how their failures have ultimately

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Speaker 1: shaped their dreams. Welcome to Fearlessly Failing with Lola Berry.

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Speaker 1: We have TV Royalty in the house today. Welcome Sandra

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Speaker 1: Sully Powerhouse.

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Speaker 2: Been at Channel ten for thirty one years, accidentally fell

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Speaker 2: into this role. Might I say She's done some pretty

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Speaker 2: incredible things, covered Olympics, met worked with.

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Speaker 1: Oprah, and Oprah brought her show to Australia. She's done

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Speaker 1: really good fronting things, like she was the only person

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Speaker 1: who was on air live as the September eleventh attacks

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Speaker 1: happened in real time. She talked about Threadbow and the

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Speaker 1: big landslide there, and she talked about her passion to

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Speaker 1: uncover the essence of a human and I thought, ooh,

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Speaker 1: that's awesome. She's also a real fanatic about working hard

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Speaker 1: and putting everything that she wants to do in a diary,

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Speaker 1: like a hard diary. I'm the exact same, like I

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Speaker 1: still have to write things. I'm very tactile anyway, I

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Speaker 1: digress enjoy Sandra Sally is wonderful. She's also got her

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Speaker 1: own podcast called Short Black. Check it out. Sadra Sally.

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Speaker 1: You're awesome, Sandra Sully. I am so nervous to be

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Speaker 1: sitting opposite you. You are an Australian TV icon journalist,

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Speaker 1: you're a senior editor presenter. You've got an incredible podcast

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Speaker 1: that I have been binging over the last week. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: and like I've been on your agent's websites. You're an MC.

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Speaker 1: You don't stop. You're the face of charities. I almost think,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, where am I going to start? So

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Speaker 1: first of all, welcome and thank you. I honored to

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Speaker 1: have you on here.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you for inviting me.

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Speaker 1: Ah mate, You've made my day. I've flown to Sydney

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Speaker 1: especially for you, so I'm very toughed. So is it

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Speaker 1: true that you kind of fell into this occupation You

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Speaker 1: were more in like fitness and health and aerobics world.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me? Yeah, I think I'm looking at

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Speaker 3: a little mini me before you know, I got old

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Speaker 3: and crotchety and broken down. But yeah, I was a

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Speaker 3: health and fitness nut that was kind of a career

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Speaker 3: before I fell into journalism, and a lady that was

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Speaker 3: in my running class worked in television and she was

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Speaker 3: leaving that job and I'd been talking to her about

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Speaker 3: where she was going, and she said, look, I don't

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Speaker 3: have a job for a while, but there is a

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Speaker 3: job I know you can do up a Channel seven

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Speaker 3: in Brisbane. And I went, I don't know anything about television,

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Speaker 3: and she said, no, no, no. I was a production manager

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Speaker 3: unit manager for a current affair show. And you know,

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Speaker 3: that was sort of the beginning of the end. Really,

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Speaker 3: you know, I went for an interview and got the job. Strangely,

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Speaker 3: they made me do an audition and I said, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm booking air flights and organizing the office. What do

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Speaker 3: I need to do this? I thought it was some

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Speaker 3: weird and normally for television, and you know, I got

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Speaker 3: the job and off I went. At the time, I

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Speaker 3: was doing a Bachelor of Business by correspondence, which was horrendous,

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Speaker 3: but I had I've got an Associate diplomer in Community

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Speaker 3: recon health and I'd been overseas as an exchange student

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Speaker 3: basically with a phized cohort from another university, and I'd

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Speaker 3: come back and I'd been working full time in health

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Speaker 3: and fitness and we had you know, a small chain

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Speaker 3: of gyms, and I was managing that, and I'm sort

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Speaker 3: of a very organized person, so I said, you need

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Speaker 3: to be organized, you know, to make the job work.

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Speaker 3: And I worked out it was more of a whole

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Speaker 3: then a career for me. Although I sit here looking

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Speaker 3: at you now and think maybe I could have turned

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Speaker 3: it into a career, but it didn't. I just it

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Speaker 3: wasn't challenged enough mentally, I think. And then you know,

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Speaker 3: a year or two later, I switched degrees and got

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Speaker 3: to get a ship.

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Speaker 1: And here I am, so is it true that you

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Speaker 1: were literally doing kind of like two jobs at once,

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Speaker 1: where you were kind of juggling and then teaching people

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Speaker 1: that I'm presuming Channel seven in brizzy aerobics classes.

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Speaker 3: In the morning before to work, and one of them

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Speaker 3: was one of my bosses, and.

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Speaker 1: You were whipping their butt, weren't you, like you were quite.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure if you remember, you're probably too young,

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Speaker 3: but you know Agrow from yes, well, Jamie Dune, the

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Speaker 3: alter ego was in my aerobics classes in the morning,

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Speaker 3: and then I'd get up to Channel seven and and

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Speaker 3: Agro'll be, you know, cracking jokes at me because I'd

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Speaker 3: put him through his spaces in the morning. So whenever

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Speaker 3: I see Jamie's like blown out a bit, sound like

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Speaker 3: we all have, Jamie, It's okay, you.

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Speaker 1: Look amazing by the way, and I have. So I've

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Speaker 1: just been I just said before we started, I'm a virgo.

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Speaker 1: So I have consumed so much content of you, and

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Speaker 1: I found this incredible podcast. It's about how it's about

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Speaker 1: successful people and it's how they work and you. I

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Speaker 1: was like soaking it up. Not I had to listen

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Speaker 1: to it twice because the first one I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm learning so much it is, And then the second time.

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Speaker 3: Is it funny you do what you do you don't

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Speaker 3: realize that it, you know, might affect someone else differently.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing that I'm really excited to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about because working in journalism news, especially

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Speaker 1: when you started out, that feels like it would have

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Speaker 1: been a man's world.

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Speaker 3: Oh it was, without doubt, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you just paved your way. And the more interviews

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Speaker 1: I've listened to you, please greet me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you've got this cheeky street Is that true?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, when I first started in television, my boss

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Speaker 3: was the senior political reporter for General seven at the time,

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Speaker 3: an executive producer of the current Affairs show we were on,

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Speaker 3: and the presenter of that current a Fair show, Glenn.

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Speaker 3: I used to call him Gladys and I'd roll his

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Speaker 3: auto Q and you know, type up all the scripts

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Speaker 3: and put his makeup on. Sometimes in those days they

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Speaker 3: didn't have full full time makeup artists, but the EP

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Speaker 3: would say, so, you know, I need tin coffee in it.

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Speaker 3: I said, I don't do tea and coffee. You know

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Speaker 3: where the urn is those days when you know, you

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Speaker 3: either had a tea lady or there was an urn

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Speaker 3: somewhere in the kitchen. And I said, look, he said,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean. That's why I employed you. You're

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Speaker 3: here to do things for me. I said, I'm here

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Speaker 3: to help you in the office, but I'm not your

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Speaker 3: gopher anyway. But I said it all tongue in cheek,

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Speaker 3: But equally, I don't drink tea or coffee. So I

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Speaker 3: think a big part of it was I don't know

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Speaker 3: how to I mean, clearly I know how to make

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Speaker 3: a tea or coffee, but not all that well. And

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Speaker 3: these days coffee is a whole new degree. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: you know, then it was just an urn of hot

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Speaker 3: water and a tea bag or or something. But I

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Speaker 3: just I said, look, if the premiere comes in, okay,

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Speaker 3: that's about it.

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Speaker 1: Was there a moment so in that like early days,

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Speaker 1: you were like, ah, I've fallen in love with this,

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Speaker 1: this is my jam.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, I worked as that production assistant on it was

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Speaker 3: called a State Affair, and as television you know would

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Speaker 3: have it, there was a major upheaval in the network

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Speaker 3: and the acts the current Affairs show that I worked

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Speaker 3: on on April Fool's Day and we all got word

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Speaker 3: in the morning and we thought, is this a joke? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: clearly it wasn't, and they got rid of half the

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Speaker 3: team and the network panic because rival station was launching

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Speaker 3: an hour news and they poached Channel seven's main newsreader,

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Speaker 3: Mike Higgins, who was, you know, a legend in Brisbane,

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Speaker 3: and he went to Channel ten and they went to

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Speaker 3: an hour. Channel seven went to an hour. So I

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Speaker 3: got absorbed into the newsroom. So I was grateful to

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Speaker 3: have a job, you know, because we've all got bills

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Speaker 3: to pay. And then I was really superfluous, you know.

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Speaker 3: I was sort of hanging around the office and saying

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Speaker 3: you know what can I do? And the lineup producer said,

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Speaker 3: go and watch those foreign feeds and tell me what

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Speaker 3: you find interesting. And you know, I just loved it

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Speaker 3: and said, can I switch my degrees? They'd offer me

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Speaker 3: cadet chip and I armed an art and thought, you know,

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Speaker 3: you have to be born to tell the truth and

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Speaker 3: be a storyteller and all these things. I felt, you know, terribly.

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Speaker 3: The imposter syndrome hit writ large, really, but I thought,

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Speaker 3: if I switched my degrees, I'll feel legitimate. But then

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Speaker 3: I negotiated that. You know, I needed that time off

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Speaker 3: to attend Unied for my classes on a part time

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Speaker 3: basis while I while I learned the craft, you know.

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Speaker 3: And a couple of years down the track, I said

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Speaker 3: to the news director, why did you give me that

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Speaker 3: start and not others? And he said, well, you'd worked

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Speaker 3: here two years TV. He's a team game. You know

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Speaker 3: how television works. I can teach you journalism.

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Speaker 1: What a gift.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So it was a man's world, but there

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Speaker 3: are a lot of good men in.

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Speaker 1: It, totally.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: I've had Dennis Walter on the podcast and in I'm

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Speaker 1: Being a Melbourne Girl. He's been like my the sound

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Speaker 1: I hear on three Ida were you? And he's I

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Speaker 1: said to him, we know, how do you speak the

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Speaker 1: way you speak? He's got that beautiful intonation that you've

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Speaker 1: got as well, and like the ability to read an

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Speaker 1: auto cue and not trip like I have a massive

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Speaker 1: fear of autok. I'm like, oh, miss a word or

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Speaker 1: it goes too fast or too slow, and you guys

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Speaker 1: will make it so natural. And I said, I said

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Speaker 1: to him in the interview, He's like, I'm I said,

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Speaker 1: what what makes that kind of like magic spark? That's

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Speaker 1: in him? It's in you, It's in some of the greats,

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Speaker 1: I would say, And he goes, I'm not doing it

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Speaker 1: for me. I'm doing it for the viewers and the listeners,

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Speaker 1: like I'm just a vessel I'm And I thought, ah,

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Speaker 1: is that the trick to like good journalism good news?

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Speaker 3: I think so. I think that's actually really honest thread.

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Speaker 3: If you think it's about you, you've already lost the plot.

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Speaker 3: You should probably walk away, and if you don't, you'll

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Speaker 3: be found out as a fraud anyway, that you're too

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Speaker 3: self absorbed. When I first started, it's funny you talk

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Speaker 3: about the voice. They said, my voice i'd never last.

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Speaker 3: So I was going to get voice lessons, and you

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Speaker 3: do learn like it like any craft, you know. I I,

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Speaker 3: you know, did a deep dive and worked out what

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Speaker 3: I needed to do to give myself the best chance

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Speaker 3: of having a crack at that career. So yes, you

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Speaker 3: can learn journalism, but you know it's there's a performance

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Speaker 3: aspect to it. You've got to get to visuals right

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Speaker 3: and the tone and voice right. So you know, I

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Speaker 3: had voice lessons, and even then I never thought I

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Speaker 3: was anywhere near where I was meant to be. But

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Speaker 3: then I couldn't. I worked out I couldn't be anyone

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Speaker 3: other than me, so just trying to be the best

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Speaker 3: version of me and not trying to imitate anyone else.

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Speaker 3: In those days, jan Event was the queen, and you

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Speaker 3: know she was the pin up for all of us,

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Speaker 3: and she had that sultry dulcet tone, and you know,

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Speaker 3: you can't mimic anyone else. You can only really try

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Speaker 3: and be the best version of you. So then I

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Speaker 3: just accepted that that's all I can do.

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Speaker 1: You've I feel like that advice anyone could take on

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Speaker 1: in any career. Listening to this, now I have to

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Speaker 1: ask you about September eleven and how because you were

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Speaker 1: literally live on air as it was unfolding, Can you

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Speaker 1: share a little bit about that experience.

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Speaker 3: Sure. I think a lot of people, arguably who are listening,

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Speaker 3: may not have been born in September eleven, or they

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Speaker 3: were too young to appreciate the magnitude of it. But

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Speaker 3: if you were with us that night, it was like

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Speaker 3: watching the start of World War three unfold before your eyes.

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Speaker 3: And this was before the only cable broadcaster in the

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Speaker 3: world was CNN. You know, the way people digest and

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Speaker 3: get their news these days is you know, it's completely changed.

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Speaker 3: It's a new world order. But then freeedoware television and CNN,

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Speaker 3: which was really you know in the States, and a

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Speaker 3: little bit in hotels and things around the country. You know,

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Speaker 3: that was the only way you could find out what

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Speaker 3: was going on immediately. Most of the commercial and freeware

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Speaker 3: networks were trapped by their bulletin you know, broadcast time,

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Speaker 3: so it was quite late at night and one of

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Speaker 3: our editors in the I'm just trying to think of

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Speaker 3: that in News Exchange, Darren. He still works with us now.

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Speaker 3: So we have this bond over September eleven, and he

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Speaker 3: alerted the producer in the control room because we'd just

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Speaker 3: gone on air that a plane had gone into the

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Speaker 3: World Trade Center, and we just presumed it will be

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Speaker 3: just a small light playing, nothing significant. And in the

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Speaker 3: commercial break, I think he said to me my ear.

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Speaker 3: And most of the building had empty because it was

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Speaker 3: quite late at night. We were only going to be

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Speaker 3: followed by sports tonight, so you know, most people have

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Speaker 3: gone home, including nearly all the newsrooms. So there was

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Speaker 3: a handful of people, really, that's all. And as soon

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Speaker 3: as we saw the pictures, we knew, you know, it

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Speaker 3: was a jetliner and the rest is history, as it were.

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Speaker 3: But wires went dead. There was no copy that you

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Speaker 3: couldn't google what was happening. That it didn't exist. It

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Speaker 3: didn't exist, The Internet didn't exist. Is it true?

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Speaker 1: You had seen and feeding into your ear during that moment,

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Speaker 1: so you were.

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Speaker 3: Like madly taking notes and trying to regurgitate that in

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Speaker 3: a sensible fashion. And then of course the buildings started

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Speaker 3: coming down. And there's no manual, there's no manual for

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Speaker 3: a crisis. You just have to draw on whatever you know,

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Speaker 3: experience you've got and hope for the best. And no

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Speaker 3: you're going to have enormous learnings from it.

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Speaker 1: And like you were very much. I remember that moment definitely,

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Speaker 1: and I remember I woke up to go to school

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Speaker 1: watching at like six am, watching. And I've heard you

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Speaker 1: say in an interview you were a part of history

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Speaker 1: as that's going down, and you described feeling like a

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Speaker 1: force almost came over you, and you felt like you

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Speaker 1: were almost buckled in like a seat belt, sitting there

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Speaker 1: just like you you had to be there to hold

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Speaker 1: this space for the viewers.

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Speaker 3: It's so true that I did feel like there was

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Speaker 3: an imaginary seat belt that just came across my body

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Speaker 3: and clicked. And I wouldn't say trapped, but I was

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Speaker 3: locked in that seat for a ride that you know,

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Speaker 3: no one will ever forget. And you know, the pictures

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Speaker 3: we saw that night, most people have never seen again

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Speaker 3: unless they were tuning in live that night and the

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Speaker 3: broadcast went for hours and then days. You know most

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Speaker 3: of those pictures where you saw groups of people who

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Speaker 3: knew that they couldn't get back inside the building. They

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Speaker 3: were on the ledge, or they're in the windows, shattered

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Speaker 3: windows looking out knowing that the fire escapes were jammed

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Speaker 3: or broken, and they had no choice but to hold

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Speaker 3: hands and jump as you just yeah, you know, And

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Speaker 3: I think the difference for people who woke to that

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Speaker 3: story was, Wow, that happened overnight. What does that really mean?

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Speaker 3: And it doesn't resonate. Yeah, but when when you live

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Speaker 3: the trauma, when you're watching it live, you're living with

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Speaker 3: your heart and your throat. You can't believe what you're seeing.

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Speaker 3: You're hoping it's not some terrible dream. Yeah, that never

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Speaker 3: leaves you, ever leaves you.

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Speaker 1: How this might sound like a really ignorant question, but

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Speaker 1: how on earth do you hold yourself together? Well, something

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Speaker 1: so catastrophic and traumatic is unfolding in front of you

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Speaker 1: and you're holding space for all of Australia that's watching you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think at the time I was just aware

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Speaker 3: of the magnitude of the event and that I had

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Speaker 3: a job to do. That stopped me collapsing into a mess.

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Speaker 3: I had a job to do, And I think anyone

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Speaker 3: doesn't matter what you're doing. You don't have to be

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Speaker 3: on the front line, but you almost find that other

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Speaker 3: gear that just traps you into finishing the job and

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Speaker 3: doing the best you can. The magnitude of it. As

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Speaker 3: I said, the severity, the scale, you know, the trauma,

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Speaker 3: the loss, the death, the pandemonium, the terror was frightening,

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Speaker 3: but it galvanized me into a place that just said

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Speaker 3: do the best you can, and whoever was tuning in,

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Speaker 3: you know, don't leave your television television screens, bring your

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Speaker 3: family and friends. I remember saying, you know, call your

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Speaker 3: family and friends. This is a monumental event and changed

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Speaker 3: the world on a dime that day. I mean, clearly

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Speaker 3: I still work in the newsroom, but I mean a

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Speaker 3: lot of the younger journeys I work with, you know,

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Speaker 3: they know September eleven, they know it changed the world,

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Speaker 3: but whether they were that cognizant at the time, you know,

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Speaker 3: many of them weren't. But I'm working with people that

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Speaker 3: worked on the bushfires late twenty nineteen and then COVID

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty, and they have found those two experiences traumatic

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Speaker 3: and profound. And there hasn't been a story since September

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Speaker 3: eleven other than the bushfires and COVID. They have been

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Speaker 3: the biggest events in over a decade for all of Australia,

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Speaker 3: if not the world.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you so much for sharing that, because yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just I've heard you speak about it before

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Speaker 1: and had the same thing just happened to me. Then

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Speaker 1: get the goosebumps. It's so visceral hearing, and.

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Speaker 3: You're kind of numb. You're numb to everything you've seen

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Speaker 3: because it's too big, I think to process. It took

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Speaker 3: everybody days to process actually what happened, how it happened,

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Speaker 3: and what does it mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my goodness, there's so much I can talk about.

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Speaker 1: There are so many things that you've covered, beautiful, amazing

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Speaker 1: things like the Royal wedding, which looked like a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun. I saw you getting into a carriage on

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Speaker 1: a YouTube clip, you know. But then Threadbow and Stuart Diver,

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Speaker 1: which would have been really the same kind of that

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Speaker 1: really intense kind of.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Stuart Diver, that was you know, five days

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Speaker 3: of just wrenching drama waiting for them to rescue him

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Speaker 3: from and I'm terribly claustrophobic, so I was traumatized the

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Speaker 3: whole time. Yeah, thinking that, I don't know how. I

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Speaker 3: still don't know how he survived to this day, because

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Speaker 3: I can't imagine. That's what people joke about. You. You'd

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Speaker 3: go on celebrity you know, Yeah, and I say it never.

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Speaker 3: And I get asked all the time by the network

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Speaker 3: and they know that it's it's a definitive no, mostly

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Speaker 3: because people don't need to see me, you know, in

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Speaker 3: my natural state. That's bad enough for my husband really,

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Speaker 3: but realistically, I couldn't get into those small spaces and

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Speaker 3: I cannot deal with snakes. They freaked me out. So

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Speaker 3: the whole thing is just you know, it's just not

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Speaker 3: why would I do that to myself or anyone else.

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Speaker 1: Don't move to Barron Bay. I've just moved to bar

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Speaker 1: And Bay. I've seen two snakes already.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, last night of the news, we had this snake.

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Speaker 1: I saw, yeah, on someone's windshields.

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Speaker 3: It was it monster python and it had been under

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Speaker 3: the bonnet and they started driving and it slithered out

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Speaker 3: onto the windscreen while they were driving.

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Speaker 1: I would have had a heart I was. I was, yes,

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Speaker 1: freaking out. So what about So there's some of them

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Speaker 1: more kind of like real like serious and traumatic things

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Speaker 1: you've covered, but like you've done so many fun things

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Speaker 1: as well, like and you're so passionate about sport and hockey,

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Speaker 1: and like there's some moments of your career where you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: Binge myself. Yeah, what well, Being in Atlanta for the

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Speaker 3: ninety six Olympics was amazing, and you know, the hockey

368
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Speaker 3: team didn't know that I'm a passionate hockey pool player

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Speaker 3: but loved it at school and played for a club

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Speaker 3: for a long time. And so I was there when

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Speaker 3: the women won gold. Ah, and then I managed to

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Speaker 3: get on the bus back from that, back from the

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Speaker 3: gold medal performance back I think it was to you know,

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Speaker 3: the village sort of center where they were all celebrated,

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Speaker 3: and I was the only journal on the bus at

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Speaker 3: the time. And I'm now currently the vice president of

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Speaker 3: Hockey Australia and one of my board fellow board directors

378
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Speaker 3: was on that bus and I don't really remember her

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Speaker 3: and she has no recollection of me because she was

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Speaker 3: so euphoric. But you know, being there when Muhammad Ali

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Speaker 3: lit the lit the cauldron, and you know, being in Victoria,

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Speaker 3: Canada for the ninety four Comwalce Games. But the back

383
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Speaker 3: to ninety six, you know, Kieren Perkins was barely qualified

384
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Speaker 3: and through layne eight and then one gold, Susie O'Neill,

385
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Speaker 3: you know, Madam Butterfly. Because I'm a mad swimmer. I

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Speaker 3: love swimming and growing up in Queensland. You know, they

387
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Speaker 3: were some of my heroes. Shane Gould so too.

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Speaker 1: Of Liesel as well. She's a good friend of mine

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Speaker 1: and she's been on this podcast and she I love

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Speaker 1: hearing the way she talks about sport. It's that same

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Speaker 1: innate passion that is deep within right.

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Speaker 3: But they're the most magical stories, you know they and

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Speaker 3: they often end in tears and disappointments and that's the

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Speaker 3: human you know story, but generally there's no death in despair,

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Speaker 3: so that's always a relief. I think the human story

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Speaker 3: sport is a wonderful platform to showcase the human.

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Speaker 1: Spirit, absolutely, and also the hard work that they've four

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Speaker 1: years minimum minimum get to that one moment.

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Speaker 3: One moment on a dime in a split second, AH,

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Speaker 3: can change your life, you know, Stephen Bradbury coming in third.

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Speaker 3: That's the role of the dice in life, isn't it Ah?

402
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 3: And the magical moments when they happened. You know, it

403
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 3: might be an AFL Grand Final, it might be it

404
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 3: might be horse racing. You know, I wasn't ever enamored

405
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Speaker 3: with horse racing, and then I through ten. I got

406
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Speaker 3: to work on when ten had the broadcast rights for

407
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Speaker 3: Spring Carnival. We held them for about twenty four years

408
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Speaker 3: and I worked on that for about seven years. And

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Speaker 3: I did most of celebrity and fashion and whatever, but

410
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 3: for the feature race every day because they went interested

411
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Speaker 3: in what was going on in the in the car parks,

412
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Speaker 3: I would scoot across down to the finish line, stand

413
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Speaker 3: next to PD Peter Donegan and watch the Melbourne Cup

414
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Speaker 3: being run, watch them finish across the finish line, and

415
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Speaker 3: then come in and check wait and see, you know,

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Speaker 3: see the owners and the trainers and the jockeys and

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Speaker 3: you know again another incredible chapter in history.

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Speaker 1: Well, my dad's an ex equine vet, so we would

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Speaker 1: always go to the race. That was part of my

420
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Speaker 1: upbring being a Melbourne girl as well. And I, as

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Speaker 1: I kind of worked in Mediumore, I get invited to

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Speaker 1: you know, the bird cage and whatnot. I'd always sneak

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Speaker 1: out and meet Dad at their real bird cage where

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Speaker 1: the horses.

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Speaker 3: Cage, you know, like I don't have a lot of

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Speaker 3: time for it with the real one where the horses

427
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 3: are as they're called the Montau. Yeah, and that's why

428
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: barid Ring, that's where the real stuff happens when people

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Speaker 3: go to the races and they don't even watch a race.

430
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: I think, really, you know, even if it's a five

431
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 3: dollar bed, just have a bit of fun. But watch

432
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 3: the race.

433
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, watch the race. Oh something I love about you.

434
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 1: This is quite nerdy. But you're a diary girl and

435
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: you're all about your time and you get up around

436
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: six six point thirty. Can you take me through a

437
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: day in the life, like a regular day in the life.

438
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 3: A regular day in the life. Look at the moment,

439
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 3: I'm reading two bulletins for two states. So I kind

440
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: of have in my diary emarked every day twelve thirty

441
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 3: till eight, and that's kind of blocked out. And I

442
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 3: have a shared diary with my husband, and I have

443
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 3: another shared diary with my husband and daughter, so we

444
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 3: all share this diary just to sort of you know,

445
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 3: my daughter work part time at CAFC, and I want

446
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 3: to know what hour she's doing, so I understand on

447
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: a Saturday she's not available whatever. I you know, schedule

448
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 3: in the podcasts and then prep time ahead of that

449
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 3: in the days, so leading up to make sure I've

450
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 3: got quarantine time to do what I need to do,

451
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of moving house, launching a new

452
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 3: book for International Wednesday, as I do every year, and

453
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 3: a moving house again, as I did exactly the same

454
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: week this time last year. I'm a glutton for punishment,

455
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 3: but I've got moving down to a fine art. More

456
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: or less, it's still traumatic.

457
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: So I will.

458
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 3: Schedule in, Like tomorrow morning, I'm getting the treadmill moved.

459
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: I'm staying in my building, but just moving down a

460
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 3: couple of floors. And so I'll schedule all of that

461
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 3: in because if I don't, my husband doesn't know why

462
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: I am up at Sparrows. I need to make things happen.

463
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 3: And you know, I've been someone when it was a

464
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 3: handwritten diary that.

465
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm still handwritten. I've got four pages of notes about

466
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: you here.

467
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 3: I'll show you my electronic you'll just die. But when

468
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: I had a handwritten diary, I would. And when I

469
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 3: talk in gyms, people would say, I just don't have time,

470
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 3: and we all get busy. But if I put my

471
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 3: workout their diary entries so that you know if I

472
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 3: can't make it, I don't deal with the guilt. I

473
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 3: just move it so that you mentally say, okay, I

474
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 3: haven't made it today. But where else can I fit

475
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 3: three decent workouts this week or four and schedule that in?

476
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've heard you say once it's in the diary,

477
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: you don't worry about it again.

478
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 3: Correct, it's out of my head. So I schedule in

479
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: you know, the must do's that I that I can't miss.

480
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 3: And then you can see your gaps. And you know,

481
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 3: when you do a job like I do, you do

482
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 3: need quite a bit of quiet time where you can

483
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: just withdraw. And you know it might be read, catch up, prepare, chill,

484
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: watch a bit of crap on television. You know, whatever

485
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 3: it is, might be housewives, It doesn't matter. Something to

486
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 3: switch off, but I make sure. And my producer Al

487
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: sitting here is saying, you don't always make it time

488
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 3: for yourself because we all push the envelope, don't but

489
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 3: we all squeeze in too much. But then I look

490
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 3: and say, Okay, I know I'm going to go a

491
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 3: little bit crazy until March twelve, after International Women's Day,

492
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 3: and then I'll say no to a lot of things

493
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 3: because I physically, I believe there's always a physical lag

494
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: to the mental and emotional traumas that you go through

495
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: and commitments that you have and you do need time

496
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 3: to recover.

497
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: I love it, and I love that you. I've heard

498
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: you talk about the way you schedule in your movement

499
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: and exercise, being a yogi myself, and loving a bit

500
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: of pilates, which I know you're a pilates girl as well.

501
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: It's so important. Once it's in the diary, you're there.

502
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: You've signed that kind of deal. It's a contract with yourself. Yeah,

503
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: I love it.

504
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: But you because it's a contract with self, you can

505
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 3: adjust it. Yes, of course, because I know you're a

506
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 3: fitness nut and I was. And when you get a

507
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: bit old, Lola, body parts break down. And you know,

508
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 3: I had major foot surgery last year, and it's about

509
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: being kind to yourself. So you know, I'm keen to

510
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 3: get back to the gym because I need to, but

511
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: I don't want two or three false starts. So I've

512
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 3: given myself six to eight months to make sure that

513
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 3: when I'm ready to go back, I can commit. And

514
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: you know, I was talking to a friend yesterday. I

515
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 3: said no, no, no, you should just go now, And I

516
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 3: said no, because the guilt of failing myself. Sometimes I

517
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: wouldn't say failing myself, but false starts can really affect

518
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 3: your journey totally. You've got to be realistic. So if

519
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: I'm more realistic about when I'm ready to get back

520
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: into weights and boxing and other things, then when I'm

521
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: ready to go, I'm ready to go.

522
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: And it brings a sense of clarity and I feel

523
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: like you're a human that does quite well. You're very

524
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: clear to talk to and I love it. My question

525
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: my next time I've seen you do GMA back in

526
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, So it is such a joy to you,

527
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: by the way, my friend, my head. I love it,

528
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: and there were fringe days as well. But how did

529
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: it go? Because obviously that's quite a different format to

530
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: working in new like it's slightly different to working these

531
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: ones I imagine. Do you write for I'm giving a really

532
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: roundabout way of asking this, but like for news, do

533
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: you write your own autoq and you or.

534
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 3: You can't write it at all because there's just too

535
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: much and you rely on the team who newsgather all

536
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 3: day and intests are put in and you you know

537
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: most times, but probably ninety five percent of the time

538
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,239
Speaker 3: you pre read that intro before it's come. You've got

539
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 3: a chance to play with it. At least five to

540
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 3: ten percent of the time, it may almost be sight unseen.

541
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 3: You'll literally have a you know, ten twenty seconds beforehand

542
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 3: or a minute beforehand to sort of process what this.

543
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 3: You roughly know what the stories are, but what the

544
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: intro's going to say? Where are the key points in

545
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: each sentence that are the salient points that you've got

546
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 3: to kind of stress. You don't always get a lot

547
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: of time. But GMA was a really weird experience because

548
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 3: I had not long come to Sydney, and I'd been

549
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: on the road and I was sort of second string

550
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 3: political reporter to Paul Mullins, who was you know I was.

551
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: He was my mentor and he was terrific. But cut

552
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 3: a long story short, and one of the execs in

553
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 3: the station walked around on a Friday afternoon and they

554
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 3: had told us, told the network they were going to

555
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: relaunch GMA, and it was going to be radio with pictures,

556
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: and they'd announced the male host, but they had to

557
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 3: announced the female co host. And in those days, you know,

558
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: when GMA finished up in its day, it was Kerry Anne,

559
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: you know, the great CAC and there was Mike Gibson

560
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: and Tim Webster and a range of co hosts, and

561
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 3: everyone was wondering who the female co host was going

562
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 3: to be. And this senior executive in the network came

563
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 3: around to the newsroom on Friday afternoon at three point

564
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 3: thirty here and he always used to call me Sandra.

565
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: I said, yes, mister Bateman said, Sandra, what are you

566
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 3: doing on Monday? I said, well, you know here. What

567
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 3: do you want me to do? He said, well, can

568
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 3: you come in early? I said, okay. He said, so,

569
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: I just want you to be part of the show Monday.

570
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,479
Speaker 3: I said, but you're launching a new show Monday, a

571
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: brand new show. There's been television ads, a massive campaign.

572
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: Who's the mystery co host? And he said, yeah, look,

573
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: we're not making any announcements, but we just need you

574
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: to sit in because we haven't quite made the decision

575
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 3: yet and we're launching Monday. Oh wow. And I said,

576
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: I've never done a live television interview. I've never done

577
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: live TV. And then what I came out with was

578
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: what have I got to wear? He just got down

579
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: to wardrobe and there'll be something in Cax's wardrobe. And

580
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: I've had this funny conversation with Cac many times, and

581
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: I said, I did not go into your wardrobe dressing

582
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 3: room besides the optimity sequence. For me, we're both from Queensland.

583
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 3: I'm not wearing yellow, although I did wear a lot

584
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 3: of yellow, which is my favorite color. But I found

585
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: something to wear and no rehearsals, know nothing. I was

586
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: sweating bricks all weekend, just freaking out and sat in

587
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 3: the chair like a deer in the headlights. And then

588
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: it was on and off for the next five months,

589
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: and then by the end of that year, I think

590
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 3: they asked the show that Mike Hammond was the host

591
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: at the time, and then he left and then it

592
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: was Ronnie Wilson and I where we formed a good

593
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: friendship and yeah, it's just mad. I mean it was mad,

594
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 3: but I got through it.

595
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: Because it would feel quite different that kind of format

596
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: versus news obviously, because you were like in the moment and.

597
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: Well, we had Tim Bailey doing Bailey in the Boot

598
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: in those days where he was traveling around Australia and

599
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: turning up and people had to unlock the boot and

600
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: there was prizes in the boots, so there was a

601
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: lot of light and shade, and James Valentine was doing

602
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: a music segment and yeah, like there was a lot

603
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: of light and shade, so I felt like I could breathe.

604
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: I had money where I could breathe again, where I

605
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 3: could find those moments. Yeah, it's just steady myself before

606
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 3: I had to do the next thing.

607
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things I found of you on

608
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: YouTube is there's a segment and it's about sheep and

609
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: you and your co You get the giggles, Brad McEwan, right,

610
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: you fully get the giggles and you still hold it

611
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,239
Speaker 1: together like for the only just as you like, I'm

612
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: going to do this and you're going to weather and

613
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: you're just like lean your way through it. How often

614
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: does that happen?

615
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: It?

616
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: And is it as fun as it looks? Because it

617
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: looks so much fun when you lose it.

618
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 3: It was very authentic, and I think if it's not authentic,

619
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: you know, viewers can actually detect that. So we have

620
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: a Player of the Day, which we still have as

621
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 3: part of our sports segment, but it was a big

622
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: thing when it was Sports Tonight in late news and

623
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 3: generally I would ap previewed the Player of the day,

624
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 3: and you know, some nights I didn't get a chance,

625
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 3: but those guys had secretly kept the player of the

626
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: day from me, and oh, that was the one on

627
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: the cool and golf course with the kangaroo when he

628
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 3: was playing with his testicles. So that was, you know,

629
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: SEVI blasts, I think was you know, we had all

630
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 3: these international golfers and they had done you know, music

631
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: sound effects, you as a bell ringing as the kangaroo

632
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 3: was playing with his testicles. And the night with the sheep,

633
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 3: I'd just come back with a funny line. And Brad

634
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: and I shared a great sense of humor and we

635
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: were really good friends. And he would when he started laughing,

636
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: I just couldn't help myself and we barely got through

637
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: the end of the show. And he always would sit

638
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 3: there during weather, which that night, I think after that,

639
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: I said, you can't stay here because I can't finish

640
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: the show when you're just giggling and laughing. So it

641
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 3: was very real and.

642
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: I loved it. I watched it three times. I was like,

643
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: I gotta watch it again. It's so good. So I've

644
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: heard you describe what makes for a good interview and

645
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: podcast world you're interviewing people, and I was really nervous

646
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: today and like I've got four solid pages of notes

647
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: of you, and I probably set aside about eight hours

648
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: per guest, just because I would.

649
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 3: Rather know more than not enough.

650
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: And be able to just go with you and not worry.

651
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: What makes a good interview.

652
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: Well, I think if you can elicit the true sense

653
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: of someone you know you really want. It's always nice

654
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: if you can find that's something other people didn't know,

655
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: so that there's a point of difference. But you know,

656
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: for someone like me, he's been around a while and

657
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: you've done too much homework, so you probably know really everything.

658
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: Maybe you want to listen anything new, I don't know,

659
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: and just getting the essence of someone, I think that's

660
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: the key, you know, what makes them tick.

661
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: Have you ever done an interview though, and you're like, oh, gee,

662
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: I've been thrown a curveball here, or this person's not

663
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: giving me too much, and have you just kind of

664
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: had to power on through. Has that happened before?

665
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, many times, and often that's a reflection of you

666
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 3: having not done enough homework. But when I first started

667
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: in journalism, I was sent out as a cub reporter

668
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: or a baby and there was an international music superstar

669
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: that had come to Brisbane and for the likes of me.

670
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 3: I can't recall the name of at the moment, but

671
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: she was a soulful, older woman, soulful singer, African American woman,

672
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 3: and I didn't know anything about her or her history

673
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: or her career, but I was sent at the last minute,

674
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 3: and I went down and asked, you know, a couple

675
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: of questions, and she just called me on it and

676
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: humanly humiliated me. But she was actually really mean spirited.

677
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: And when I got back, I said to the news director,

678
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: you know, I was ill prepared, and he said, yeah,

679
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: you probably were, but equally she was mean. Yeah, And

680
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: that made me feel a bit better, because you know,

681
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 3: we all start somewhere, Yeah, and I think you just

682
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 3: need to be kind. And you know, in life, you'll

683
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 3: see you'll be sitting with family and friends and they'll

684
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 3: be watching an interview and they'll be I think, you know,

685
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 3: mean to the journalists about saying, why did they ask

686
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 3: that question? It's like, well, everyone does the best they

687
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: can at the time, and a lot of it isn't this.

688
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes there's a gotcha moment where it's a

689
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 3: deliberate setup, but that's not in my armory. You know,

690
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: that's not who I am. I don't think you get

691
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: very far that way.

692
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: Well then they're going to put a block up, aren't they?

693
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: And there goes the essence of the person, which is

694
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: the main goal.

695
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 3: Well, my news director said to me that day, look

696
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: a she was mean spirited. She was there to promote

697
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 3: her tour in Brisbane and she's been around the block

698
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 3: a couple of times. She would known you're going to

699
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: get cup journals. The media is already you know, thinly stretched.

700
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 3: And he just refused to run the story and promote

701
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 3: her to And I said, you know what come he

702
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: had your back. Yeah, I love it.

703
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: So for people listening going okay, Sandra Sally has the

704
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: dream job, and how do I break or get into

705
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: this industry? And what advice do you have for people

706
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: that are like I want to be a journal I

707
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: want to read the news, I want to be in media.

708
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 3: Well I meet a lot of people that say, look,

709
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 3: you know, I just want to be a newsreader. I said, well,

710
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 3: you better rethink your career plans because you just don't

711
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: sit there and read the auto cure. You have to

712
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 3: want to be a journalist and then learn your craft.

713
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 3: If you want to work in television. You've got to

714
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 3: understand it's a visual medium. So you've got to look

715
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 3: at your appearance and try to be find someone that

716
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: will be honest and objective with you. So I remember

717
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,479
Speaker 3: mentoring a young journalist who was very theatrical and she's

718
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 3: led a successful career, but she would wear zany hats

719
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 3: and scaf and you know, but that was who she was.

720
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: And I said, look, imagine, imagine sitting inside your home

721
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 3: and there's a knock on the door, and when you

722
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: open that door, first impressions, people see you before they

723
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: hear you. And so if you've got a zony hat

724
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: and the mad scarff, who WTF? What what do you want?

725
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: I don't I don't understand this picture. So you've got

726
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: a role play to a degree in terms of how

727
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 3: you present yourself. If you want to be taken seriously,

728
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 3: you need to dress the part, sound the part, be

729
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 3: the part, do your homework so you know, do your research.

730
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: The other thing is in television, it is a team game,

731
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 3: and you've got to be a nice person. Not that

732
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 3: not that you know, it's full of nice people, but

733
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 3: it is full of team players, people who understand that

734
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 3: you're only as good as the team around you, and

735
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: and I sit there at the end of my colleagues

736
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 3: day and tell their story that they worked all day

737
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 3: to tell. I love that.

738
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a really nerdy question. There's

739
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: two TV shows that I'm obsessed with that are kind

740
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: of like are behind the scenes of your life in effect.

741
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: So one of them is called Newsroom. It's Aaron Sorkin

742
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: watched it religiously, and the other one is Morning War

743
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: was which is the watch that too?

744
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: Apple TV?

745
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you think of the two shows?

746
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: Well, they were both great. Both great because you know,

747
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: it's a slice of what we do. How real is it?

748
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 3: There are elements that were clearly dramatic and made for television,

749
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: so it's not entirely accurate, but there are elements and

750
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 3: threads that are quite real. I think Broadcast News that's

751
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: a movie you might want to watch one day, and

752
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 3: it's quite old, but that was probably the most honest

753
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 3: reflection of what it can be like when it's so

754
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 3: close to air and so desperate to get it right

755
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: and get it to air, the mad scramble for the deadline,

756
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 3: that's probably the most authentic. But again, they're all dramas,

757
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: so dramatic.

758
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: Of course, but even coming in here today we're recording

759
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: this Network ten and walking past the Studio ten, and

760
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: there's an energy that comes with like seeing all the

761
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: cameras set up and there's people walking around, and you

762
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: know those people are probably working on a story for

763
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: tomorrow or later.

764
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: You know, like that's the great thing about this building.

765
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: And we've been here for oh gosh on nearly fifteen

766
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 3: or more years, but television is at the core of

767
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 3: the building, so it's almost like an eight trim and

768
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: all the offices are three and four floors around the studio.

769
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: The new studio, Studio ten is at the base of

770
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 3: the building and at the center of what everyone does.

771
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 3: So with a lot of new staff. Our sales office

772
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 3: years ago used to be in North Sydney, and when

773
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 3: everybody moved back in, they actually see live television being

774
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: made every day. And that's infectious because the magic of

775
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 3: television is right in front of you. And the annoying

776
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 3: part of that is people forget at the left well

777
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: and walking down the stairs next to the studio that

778
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 3: they're busy talking about their day or their date night,

779
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: and you're gesticulating to them wildly going shut on me.

780
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 1: I noticed that when I came up and Ali brought

781
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: me up and I was swinging my coffee back and

782
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: I was chatting like, oh, and Ali's quite quiet, and

783
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, pick up the q loly right, I probably

784
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: caught myself a little weight.

785
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 3: You'll often hear the elevated ding, you know. And then

786
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 3: our guys in dispatch, who are probably the best people

787
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 3: in the building because they're so kind with everyone and patient,

788
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 3: especially in the world of you know, home delivery with

789
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: you know, careers, and they've got a trolley and when

790
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 3: they're delivering parcels, I look up and go, guys, we're

791
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 3: on air. Old the trolley, older trolley. This is really important.

792
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: I love it. A little sneaky behind the scene. So good.

793
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: I can't leave. We're coming to the end. So I've

794
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: got one more question. Is there anyone and you talked about,

795
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: you know, doing Olympics and wonderful things, Is there anyone

796
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: because I've seen you. You got involved with Oprah when

797
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: Oprah was he doing that was man. Yeah, she's incredibly talented.

798
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: It the passion that Ooza's out of her.

799
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 3: I'm just like, oh yeah, But there was a strength

800
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: and peasence that she had that was unmistakable. I remember

801
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: sitting in her presence and thinking, there's an aura about

802
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 3: her that's incredibly powerful. And you know, when she brought

803
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: the show to the front of the Opera House and

804
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: she'd been via Hamilton Island and had done the tour

805
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: down Under, and then we did her private show at

806
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: the Botanical Gardens and I got to interview her and look,

807
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: you know, I just felt like a deer in the headlights.

808
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I just thought, you're a

809
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 3: nice person, and you won't be mean. I didn't want

810
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 3: to be, you know, a fan girl, but inside and

811
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 3: it's not to say, you know, I love everything about Oprah,

812
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 3: but she's a masterful communicator. Yeah, and you can't help

813
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: but not be in awe of her ability to command

814
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 3: a moment, you know. So when she grabbed the microphone,

815
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: she just had everyone in the palm of her hand.

816
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: Everyone just stood there And as I said, you don't

817
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: have to love everything about Oprah, but we're in the

818
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 3: communications business. So when you admire one of the best

819
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: in the world, I'm close and personal. That was a

820
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: bit of a treat.

821
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: I've spoken to other people that have interviewed her, and

822
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: they said, interviewing her is like she holds eye contact.

823
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: She'll often like hold your hands. You'll feel very connected

824
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: to you and give you so much.

825
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 3: Yes, And then you try not to be overwhelmed by

826
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: that moment because you're thinking, oh, my goodness, Oprah's holding

827
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 3: my hand.

828
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: For anyone else, is that anyone else that you're just like, oh,

829
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: that was amazing. Oh gosh, I know I'm putting you

830
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: on the spot.

831
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: No, no, because I don't really want to elevate celebrity.

832
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: They get enough. Sometimes it'll be it'll be someone and

833
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: every day Australian that's done something truly remarkable, that that

834
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 3: is as powerful as any celebrity on the world stage,

835
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 3: who's got a heart bigger than the outdoors, who's as

836
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 3: generous and has the largest of spirit, that's overwhelming, that

837
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 3: brings you to tears that you find it difficult to

838
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 3: encapsulate in words, what a remarkable human being they are.

839
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 3: They're the ones that make me emotional.

840
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: You know, there's a word in yoga called dharma and

841
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: it means when you meet someone and they're living on

842
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: their purpose. And so I feel like when you meet

843
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: someone that's living true to themselves in the essence of themselves,

844
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: like you described, that's the like, it's something, it's well esoteric, right.

845
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: It feels bigger than us, you know, I totally get that.

846
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: Sandra Sali, you are awesome.

847
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 3: You're kind and blind.

848
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm like I said, I have been binging

849
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: your podcast de Belief Andesse episode. I love so passionate.

850
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 3: She's wonderful. So thank you.

851
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: No, no, I can't thank you enough. You are a joy,

852
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: my friend.

853
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 3: Oh thank you so much.

854
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,

855
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation

856
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm at Yamo Lollaberry. This potty my word

857
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love

858
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: it if you could subscribe, rate and comment, and of

859
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: course spread the love.