1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Well, let's head on down to Alice Springs right now, 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: where we do know that there's been real issues when 3 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: it comes to crime, particularly uthed crime. And joining me 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: on the line is Robin Lamley, the Member for Ara 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: lun Good morning, Robin. 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie Wolf Robin. 7 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: Things are How are things going in Alice? I know 8 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: it's been pretty horrible the last few times we've spoken. 9 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: Well, I think things have not changed, Katie, despite the 10 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: front page of the Anti News this morning telling us 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: that there's been one hundred cases put before the court 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 2: or something to that effect of juvenile offenders, there's not 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: much evidence of change on the street of Alice Springs yet. 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 2: But we all remain optimistic. Katie. 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess that's all you can do. 16 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: If you actually, you know, you've set up roots and 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: you're living in Alice Springs, all you can do remain 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: optimistic at this point. I do just want to quote 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: something that the Northern Territory News has reported the Chief Minister, 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: Michael Gunner saying on those stats, so essentially two hundred 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: and seventeen prosecution files have been submitted since October fourteen. 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: Of those, one hundred and twenty two were related to 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: property offenses. One hundred and six were submitted against youth offenders. 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: Now the Chief Minister's told the paper, I'm really encouraged 25 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: by the process that Strikeforce. 26 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: Viper is making. 27 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: It's their job to catch criminals, and that's exactly what 28 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: they're doing. Tackling crime and anti social behavior is a 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: big wheel that turns slowly. 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 3: I know it's frustrating. I'm frustrated too. 31 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: He's told them we've just got to keep working and 32 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: keep pushing. But Robert, I think we all understand that 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,639 Speaker 1: the issue has never been the police doing their jobs. 34 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: They do a tremendous job, but somewhere down the track 35 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: things continue to break down. 36 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: That's right, Katie. The police have always done a good 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: job in Alla Springs, but when they're under resourced and 38 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: under pressure and not particularly well supported by their government, 39 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: that's when things start to fall apart. What I've seen 40 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: over the years is when a government takes their eye 41 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: off the ball, stops putting youth crime and any crime 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: as a priority, then the community starts to see the deterioration. 43 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: And that's what we've seen over the last three years. 44 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: And I'm not saying this because that's sort of the 45 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: duration of this government. Literally, it has been over the 46 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: last three or four years that we've seen things change. Look, 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: I am inspired by those stats, but they're kind of 48 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: given to you in a vacuum, like one hundred and 49 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: six youth offenders of you know, like the stats, they 50 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: all sound good, but this is over the last seven weeks. 51 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: What happened for the previous seven weeks and the seven 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: weeks before then? What are we comparing this to? Those 53 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: figures sound great, but there's no context, and that's where 54 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: the government thinks that they can conness or convince us. 55 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: You know, we're not stupid. Territorians aren't stupid. Giving us 56 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: figures without any sort of reference to the past is 57 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: really quite mischievous. What we've got at the moment, Katie, 58 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 2: is several members of the cabinet are in town at 59 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: the moment. I haven't seen any of them. But apparently 60 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: we've got the gunner down here, We've got the Police Minister, 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: the Territory Families Minister. They may even have the whole 62 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: cabinet down here. I wouldn't have a clue. They never 63 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: come to visit me, despite my invitations that they come 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 2: down and they've put this out, this media relief out 65 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: that's sort of splash all over the NT years, trying 66 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: to convince us all that there's a great change improvement 67 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: that we're yet to see much evidence of that. And 68 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: as I said before, that doesn't mean that I'm not optimistic. Yeah, 69 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: but you know, perception is always greater then you know, 70 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: it's more, it's more important, Yeah, sax and figures that 71 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: might be splashed around. 72 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 4: Robin. 73 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 3: I want to play for you a little bit. 74 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: Of audio that we caught up with Josh Burgoyne earlier 75 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: in the week. And I know that you and he 76 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: have spoken to me on numerous occasions about this issue. 77 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what he had to say to 78 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: me earlier in the week. 79 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 4: Two things that I believe can be done the twenty 80 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 4: four to seven new centate and we can't call it 81 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 4: twenty four to seven yet because it's only open select days. 82 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 4: You know, a little bit more funding to provide that 83 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 4: at slightly earlier date than what they planned. We need 84 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 4: to bring back breach of bail asm offense. The policy 85 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 4: structures are in place at the moment aren't working and 86 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 4: we need to be willing to change that. And The 87 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 4: police are doing the absolute best they can. I do 88 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 4: leave the day, are working exceptionally hard, but we need 89 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 4: to back them up with the lawns, with these bail laws, 90 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 4: so the youth that they are arresting are not just 91 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 4: constantly going around and around what we call he you know, 92 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 4: in this revolving door. 93 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: Robin, you and I have spoken before about the possibility 94 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: of a youth curfew in Alice Springs, But what do 95 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: you think is it time for that youth center to 96 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: genuinely be twenty four to seven and do we need 97 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: to seriously look at changing the breach of bail laws 98 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: and making an offense if you do breach your bail. 99 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: So, as Josh alluded to that the youth center, which 100 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: is now open twenty four hours a day just over 101 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: the weekends, will become a seven day service when the 102 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: kids go on school holidays. That will be interesting to 103 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: see how effective that becomes. But already we've got we 104 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: had a leading stakeholder from the youth sector come out, 105 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: I think it was on it was yesterday saying that 106 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: she was concerned that having a recreational facility open twenty 107 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: four hours a day, seven days a week was actually 108 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: attracting kids to town rather than encouraging them to go home. 109 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 2: So there's some criticism sort of starting to build around 110 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 2: exactly what the model is that the government settled on here. 111 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: But look, I am trying to be extremely optimistic and 112 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: I think that it's worth a go. It's worth sitting 113 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: back and watching how effective a twenty four hour, seven 114 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: day week youth dropping center will be in Alice Springs 115 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: over the school holidays. The breach of bail has been 116 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: the relaxing of the laws around breach of bail hasn't 117 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: done any good for the count of Alice Springs in 118 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: terms of crime. It's consistent with the recommendations of the 119 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: World Commission into Juvenile Justice and Child Protection, and that's 120 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: why we've seen that change in legislation implemented by the 121 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: government large last year that it really has had an 122 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 2: adverse impact on our community. One of the unintended consequences 123 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 2: of the Royal Commission was the fact that crime has 124 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: gone through the roof, probably right throughout the Northern Territory. 125 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: And Robin, I guess you know, a really sort of 126 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: interesting question is how many, you know, like, how many 127 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: youths do we have per months? Who are breaching their 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: bail conditions. I'd be really interested, you know, to find 129 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: that out, whether we have got a situation where there 130 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: are a number of young people who are breaching their 131 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: bail conditions, or whether it is just something that we're perceiving. 132 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: Well, that was the line of questioning that the Opposition 133 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: was pursuing in Parliament during the last sittings, and of 134 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: course the government was unable or unwilling to provide that information. 135 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: We head into Budget estimates hearing next week, Katie, I'm 136 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: sure the Opposition will be all over this. We want 137 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: statistics showing us how many kids are breaching BA, how 138 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: many kids are literally getting locked up and let out 139 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 2: immediately on this relaxed system that the government has put 140 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: in place. Look somewhere in the middle lies the solution. 141 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: You know, you can't have a completely relaxed system when 142 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: it comes to how we treat juvenile offenders, and you 143 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: can't have sort of an extreme situation where you're locking 144 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: up kids and not treating them well. Like most things 145 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 2: in life, there is a point in the middle where 146 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: we will all be reasonably happy. You know that the 147 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 2: child advocates and you know, and the average Joe blogs 148 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 2: who's been subjected to crime, relentless crime in Alice Springs 149 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: and throughout the Northern Territory from these kids. We have 150 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: to take a sensible and moderate position on these things. 151 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: Going too far to one all the other is disastrous. 152 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: All right, Oh well, Robin, it's something we'll continue to 153 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: talk about. Yeah, it has to be. I think, Hey, 154 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: I do just want to ask you quickly. I know 155 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: that you've issued a pressure release this morning saying that 156 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: the government has scrapped the program that provides alcohol and 157 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: other drug rehabilitation services across the Northern Territory. So the 158 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: two point eight million dollar commit program is to be 159 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: cut within weeks, leaving rehabilitation treatment options in the Northern 160 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: Territory reduced by an estimated thirty percent and more than 161 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: twenty jobs cut. 162 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 3: I was not aware of this. 163 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: No, well, of course you're not aware of it because 164 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: the government won't be talking about that. But yes, this 165 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 2: is something I've uncovered over the last couple of weeks, 166 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 2: just in my preparation for the estimates hearings next week. 167 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: I've discovered this dramatic part in some of the most 168 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: essential services that we can provide in Northern Territory, alcohol 169 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: and drug rehabilitation for offenders. It's mainly for people to 170 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 2: keep them out of jail. It's also a programmed to 171 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: stop recidivism rates and get people out of jail earlier 172 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: than they normally would. So yeah, yes, the government has 173 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: a lot of questions to answer. This is a government 174 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 2: that's been very critical of former governments making cuts and 175 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: here we have them reducing some services by more than 176 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: thirty percent in the Northern Territory. 177 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 3: Well, i'll tell you what, Robin. 178 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: It's always it's always interesting when you hear this type 179 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: of thing, and it's it's you know, you worry about 180 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: the impact that it's going to have more broadly. We 181 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: are going to have to leave it there, but we'll 182 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: catch up with you again next week with estimates taking 183 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 1: place to find out exactly what's going on. 184 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: Good sounds great, Thank you, Robin. 185 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 3: Talk soon. 186 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: See that is Robin Lamley there. She's the independent member 187 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: for Ara Leuwen. And yes, those budget estimates next week.