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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's.

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Speaker 2: Our next guest has had a life like no other.

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Speaker 2: Before she was ten, she was trained to remember number plates.

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Speaker 2: I can't even remember my own. She holidayed with Soviet defectors.

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Speaker 2: She stood watch on houses because she was from a

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Speaker 2: family of spies. Her life is so incredible a book

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Speaker 2: has been written about her. Do we have any questions? Yes,

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Speaker 2: we do so well in Kusha, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello.

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Speaker 3: What about you?

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Speaker 2: Well? This is this is amazing. How did your parents

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Speaker 2: get recruited? Who are they working for.

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Speaker 4: In the army? And I guess he had a certain

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Speaker 4: set of skills and the army experience. And this was

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of ASO, when it.

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Speaker 1: Was first formed, and they were looking for a range

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Speaker 1: of people with a range of skills, and he had

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Speaker 1: a skill set that obviously appealed to them, and he

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Speaker 1: was recommended by someone he knew, and you ended up

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Speaker 1: in Odio. And then when they first began, it was

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Speaker 1: easier to have a husband's life team. That changed very

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Speaker 1: quickly after that that it would very beginning they had husbands.

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Speaker 5: So well, can we just sort your phone out a bit?

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Speaker 5: And is that better?

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Speaker 3: Better?

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Speaker 2: And so you're not one of those stories where no

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Speaker 2: one in the family knew dad was a spy. Your

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Speaker 2: whole family knew what he did, and you joined in.

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Speaker 4: We did because we were born into the first bugging

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Speaker 4: operation and the recording machine was in our apartment. The

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Speaker 4: apartment that was being bugged was underneath us, and my

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Speaker 4: brother and I were children, so we were incorporated into

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Speaker 4: that first operation. And my mother and father made a

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Speaker 4: strategic move to trust us and to include us because

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Speaker 4: we were great tough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who are you spying on?

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Speaker 4: At that stage, we were spying on Russians. It had

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Speaker 4: been realized that there were Russian spies in Australia and

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Speaker 4: so it was very much the Soviet Union that Australia,

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Speaker 4: Britain and America were trying to locate and track the

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Speaker 4: spy system.

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Speaker 3: Right, and what would the Russians be spying on us for?

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Speaker 4: Well, because we had access to intel for America and Britain.

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Speaker 4: So America, Britain and Australia shared their intelligence and ASIO

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Speaker 4: was actually set up because our system was so slack

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Speaker 4: that we had no security. So Britain and America had said,

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Speaker 4: we will no longer share our intelligence with you because

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Speaker 4: you are a security risk. So that is why ASIO

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Speaker 4: was actually set up. So the Triad was getting intelligence

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Speaker 4: on the spying system.

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Speaker 2: The very famous Petrov couple who were they were Soviet

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Speaker 2: spies who then switched to our side.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: And you were on holidays with them?

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Speaker 4: Well, when that's correct, they did defect and they were

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Speaker 4: a rich source of information. And when Melbourne hosted the Olympics,

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Speaker 4: the intelligentsia knew that the KGB would send people out

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Speaker 4: to try and eliminate the Petrovs, so they had to

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Speaker 4: do something with them to keep them safe. So they

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Speaker 4: came to Queensland. We've just been transferred to Queensland. I

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Speaker 4: came to Queensland and we went on two months holiday

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Speaker 4: with them and they acted like our grandparents and we

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Speaker 4: were a family on holiday.

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Speaker 3: But they would have sounded pretty Russian, though, wouldn't.

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Speaker 4: They did, And so that was very tricky.

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Speaker 3: We're tracking moose and squirrel.

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Speaker 2: And how strange you say that when your father passed

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Speaker 2: away you didn't actually believe it.

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Speaker 4: Well, I I believed that it was possible that he

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Speaker 4: wasn't there because my father kept disappearing. He went on

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Speaker 4: disappearing acts all the time. And if you consider what

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Speaker 4: we have just talked about, and how extraordinary that is.

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Speaker 4: I knew the extraordinary was possible, and I knew that

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Speaker 4: the surface life that seemed normal was only normal because

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Speaker 4: of a lot of things that were going on underneath.

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Speaker 1: So I.

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Speaker 4: Very much entertained the possibility that my father was still alive.

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Speaker 4: And I entertained that possibility for most of my life.

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Speaker 2: So when you look back at your life, do you

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Speaker 2: think what a quirky upbringing? Or is there sort of

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Speaker 2: trauma that comes with this?

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Speaker 4: Well, to me, it was normal. So as an adult,

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Speaker 4: I look back and I realized it was anything but normal.

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Speaker 4: But until I met my husband, who told me I

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Speaker 4: was a complete and out of fruit cake and I

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Speaker 4: had and I didn't know what I was talking about,

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Speaker 4: I never questioned it. So it's only as an adult

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Speaker 4: retrospectively that I look back and gosh.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of sheet.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's right.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's great to talk to you, Sue Ellen.

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Speaker 5: The book is out with my Little Eye, Sue Ellen Krishna,

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Speaker 5: thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for talking with me.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. Doesn't that sound interesting?

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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's