Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, welcome to Not Another Crime Podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Georgia Love.
Speaker 1: I'm Sammy Peterson.
Speaker 3: I'm a journalist.
Speaker 1: I am not, but hey what I am a big
Speaker 1: fan of our guest. The third host of the podcast,
Speaker 1: Not Digs. It's Scott Williams. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hello, Yeah,
Speaker 1: welcome Scott with your beautiful clipboard. You've got a bag
Speaker 1: today as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we'll talk you hang on.
Speaker 5: So if I'm a journalist and you're are not, what
Speaker 5: are we going to call Scott? Because you're on so
Speaker 5: often with us now we need to bring you into
Speaker 5: the intro when you hear it.
Speaker 4: If we're going to bring me into the intro, this
Speaker 4: is what I think we'll do right Someday we'll find
Speaker 4: it beautiful. The dream.
Speaker 2: Mis understood where we were going.
Speaker 4: So I can be just me and me beautiful. I
Speaker 4: can be the third wheel.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it again. We'll go. Hey, every welcome
Speaker 1: to Not Another Crime Podcast. I'm Smy Peterson.
Speaker 3: I'm Georgia Love.
Speaker 1: I'm a journalist. No, no, no more time. Hi everybody, welcome
Speaker 1: to another crime podcast. I'm Simmy Peterson and Scott you're fired.
Speaker 4: We'll get it clean. This time.
Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, Welcome to not Another crime podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Georgia Love, I'm Sammy Peterson. I'm a journalist, I am not.
Speaker 4: And I am just me. Yeah, just you are you?
Speaker 3: You are everyone else has taken.
Speaker 1: Now we have a present for you today, Scott. And
Speaker 1: it is a letter that has come from the beautiful Claudia,
Speaker 1: who you might know.
Speaker 5: Sammy's got up to pass the envelope you might know
Speaker 5: as Dick is by Claude, our listener who showers us
Speaker 5: with gifts and has now showered you with a.
Speaker 1: Gift a gift. Cry you dare? Don't you dare?
Speaker 3: And me, don't you dare? At me?
Speaker 1: Also, won't at me?
Speaker 3: Going at me?
Speaker 4: I'll resent hear it for a minute. Sorry, sorry, but
Speaker 4: this like I have a life. I heard I heard
Speaker 4: an expression the other day that said, the number of
Speaker 4: beautiful things that happen in your life are entirely based
Speaker 4: on your ability to recognize them. Oh lovely, And I
Speaker 4: like that, yeah and it And I had a lot
Speaker 4: of beautiful things happened to me in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 4: But becoming a pseudo part of this podcast was one
Speaker 4: of the most people. We love you guys have no
Speaker 4: idea the joy that it brings me to write and
Speaker 4: to share the stories and then to get fan my joking,
Speaker 4: are you're even joking.
Speaker 3: Right now, Sammy, We're going to have to rethink firing him.
Speaker 1: On this next one.
Speaker 4: Wait until you see what this is. This is spectactuar.
Speaker 4: Well it's buttons.
Speaker 5: Oh the stick buttons because Scott told us the button
Speaker 5: Man story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, cla My heart could not be more full. That
Speaker 4: is absolutely a dream.
Speaker 3: That is three hundred and sixty five buttons for all
Speaker 3: the days.
Speaker 4: Oh god, I hope. So that is stunning. These are
Speaker 4: going on the clipboard.
Speaker 1: A huge.
Speaker 3: The room.
Speaker 4: That's a Claude claud I'm looking straight at the camera.
Speaker 4: You're a beautiful human being. Go to the Rose Street
Speaker 4: markets and visit Claude on the weekends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, sticks plugs in and everything. Yeah, blood absolutely
Speaker 1: that You've got your name there as well, on the
Speaker 1: on the correct day, always right.
Speaker 4: She said to Scott Williams. Sammy sent me a photo
Speaker 4: just of this, and my heart almost burst. I'm like,
Speaker 4: what do you mean, I've got fem mate, This is
Speaker 4: just ridiculous. I'm just a dude, right, like just me
Speaker 4: I'm just me.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. It's so beautiful live unboxings on my no
Speaker 1: the buttons.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm really glad that you said that. So
Speaker 4: what listeners don't know is because of reasons we didn't
Speaker 4: get together for a couple of weeks, you record today's episode.
Speaker 4: I was supposed to come on the week of your
Speaker 4: one year anniversary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: And the bag is in my lap is a little
Speaker 4: gift for you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm.
Speaker 4: Going to got buttons. I'm going to go off for
Speaker 4: a second and pass it to you. Okay.
Speaker 5: I think I've probably said this on the podcast before.
Speaker 5: Gifting is my love language. Like, I can't tell how
Speaker 5: happy giving gifts and receiving gifts makes me.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's a beautiful What is a box?
Speaker 4: And Sammy just said something off Mike, and I'm so
Speaker 4: glad he did because waiting to open.
Speaker 3: This, what did you say?
Speaker 1: It's a box?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, please hold my joms, please.
Speaker 1: Sir, please please, okaye.
Speaker 4: How one year? I'm super excited for you, guys.
Speaker 2: Stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, wait, oh my god, my god. Sorry,
Speaker 3: it was really bad.
Speaker 2: This is really bad audio.
Speaker 5: Right, now, but Scott has gifted us champagne glasses that
Speaker 5: are engraved with the word horrendous.
Speaker 1: That is amazing.
Speaker 5: You're right, damn it just said before we started recording,
Speaker 5: he literally said, these are only two champagne glasses left
Speaker 5: because Digs has broken them.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Scott, that is.
Speaker 5: The best surrendous thing I've ever said.
Speaker 1: Carrendous.
Speaker 3: There's another level.
Speaker 1: This is like an unboxing past the past.
Speaker 2: Ye oh my god, Oh my god. More, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: there's two more.
Speaker 3: And then they say ring, ring, and off.
Speaker 4: The new catchphrases, the new catchphrases, ring ring.
Speaker 3: Scott, this is amazing.
Speaker 5: This is unfortunately the end of today's episode that.
Speaker 3: You are amazing. Thank you so much. That is so beautiful.
Speaker 1: We drink out of them right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's pour the jam.
Speaker 4: Right right in there.
Speaker 1: Which one do you want to drink right now?
Speaker 3: I think we need ring, ring, buckling and funk off.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well.
Speaker 5: We're pouring champagne from one bush to another. You tell
Speaker 5: us about your life.
Speaker 4: I kind of just summarized it, right, like, my life
Speaker 4: is full of beautiful moments and I continue to have
Speaker 4: a beautiful, happy life.
Speaker 1: It's really simple, beautiful.
Speaker 4: We're coming up to March, we're coming up to Valentine's Day,
Speaker 4: so absolutely, I'll say, last time I said something nice
Speaker 4: about my wife at g C, I probably shouldn't do that.
Speaker 3: I'll say something nice to think of something.
Speaker 4: That's just what I'll say. I'll say, beautiful woman, what
Speaker 4: I like about She's sarcastic, Julia, Just in case you
Speaker 4: were under.
Speaker 1: I have to tell people because people my voice is
Speaker 1: so psarcastic when I'm being genuine sometimes people go.
Speaker 2: People you move by that.
Speaker 4: But if people have seen you special, they know that
Speaker 4: you're smirking. So you just look like you wanted to
Speaker 4: say what I would say about us if I had
Speaker 4: to say something nice, given it's coming out Valentine's Day.
Speaker 4: Is our relationship sixty forty, But the trick is we're
Speaker 4: both trying to be sixty.
Speaker 3: That's better than both trying to be forty.
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3: Let's cheers with your goals.
Speaker 4: Happy anniversary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, that's the best.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: So welcome, Diggs.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to put these up so high,
Speaker 1: so yeah, he.
Speaker 3: Might have to live at my house and I'll bring
Speaker 3: them over every.
Speaker 2: Time we recorded we're cotton Wall also.
Speaker 5: Talking about Valentine's Day. What else falls on Valentine's Day?
Speaker 1: Diggs's birthday? Diggs birthday wasn't that makes so much sense.
Speaker 1: He's a loveh my god full of He was bought
Speaker 1: and believe it. When I got the certificate to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, I officially adopted Digs and it had his
Speaker 1: birthday as Valentine's Day, and I was like, that makes
Speaker 1: total the kiss monster. And you've actually got him a
Speaker 1: beautiful new gift today. So you didn't just bring his.
Speaker 4: Birthday, sought him a beautiful gift. I always bring him
Speaker 4: something you want to be the favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you usually bring him a pigsy or something.
Speaker 1: This time you bought him a beautiful dinosaursaurus. He loves
Speaker 1: it so much. So he's playing in between us right
Speaker 1: now as you're about to tell this story and we've
Speaker 1: got you beautiful wine glass.
Speaker 4: We haven't.
Speaker 3: They haven't given you a single thing.
Speaker 4: She did You gave me stickers? No, but they came
Speaker 4: because of this podcast.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 4: He gave me I.
Speaker 3: Unloaded France, thank you very much.
Speaker 4: I do have a couple of pieces of housekeeping though,
Speaker 4: because like I always come in here and tell us corrections.
Speaker 4: And the sad thing about that, I've seen a few
Speaker 4: of the videos of other people that you have on
Speaker 4: like you have other people on.
Speaker 3: A Thursday that was said with so much disdain.
Speaker 4: Judi people they sit over there and Diz can sit
Speaker 4: with them. So I just want to say for future, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's not ideal for me. Yeah, I love Taxi. And
Speaker 4: also I don't know, like I don't want to pinpoint
Speaker 4: anybody on this podcast, but on a recent episode, somebody
Speaker 4: had a poetry peeve. Now I'm not going to say
Speaker 4: who it was. They were talking about people with very
Speaker 4: loud motorcycles.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was me.
Speaker 4: And I do just want to point out that you've
Speaker 4: seen my Harley, yeah.
Speaker 2: But I haven't heard it.
Speaker 3: And that's the important part to our friendship.
Speaker 4: So the two things that I will say about.
Speaker 1: When I dress at the airport, tell me that I dress.
Speaker 4: Well at airport, Yeah, don't you worry. I want I
Speaker 4: want that. I want the security guard to go because
Speaker 4: I did such a good job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to be the fake belt.
Speaker 4: Have my laptop out. I want to be at that.
Speaker 4: I need a bit of that action. But I will
Speaker 4: there's two times. If I'm driving up to a set
Speaker 4: of lights and I see a little kid any waves
Speaker 4: at me. You God, damn right, I'll read my mate, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: because I was that little kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And also in a tunnel, because tunnels, because tunnel.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Loud as a very loud person self proclaimed you
Speaker 5: love just talking about digs, squeaky toys. It really doesn't
Speaker 5: make sense for me not to like the loud noises. Actually, no,
Speaker 5: now I've said that out loud. It's probably because how loud,
Speaker 5: because I'm not making the load noise and I'm jealous.
Speaker 4: And the other thing I just wanted to share was
Speaker 4: if I wrote an autobiography, yes we're talking about that,
Speaker 4: it would be titled based on a true story.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's also kind of written in order bo I
Speaker 1: did a little bit. Yeah, mister ordinary goes to jail
Speaker 1: available online where.
Speaker 4: All good books are sold at my house at the
Speaker 4: moment because they're out of print.
Speaker 3: That sounds a lot more sinister than it probably is.
Speaker 5: You're like when you used to go to Barley in
Speaker 5: like the nineties and two thousands, and you'd go into
Speaker 5: those dodgy back room stores that had plastic leaves.
Speaker 3: That's your garage with where we're BookTok stars now?
Speaker 2: So where well book.
Speaker 4: Fluences, yes, top booktops, bookto Stars. Bring ring Buckling?
Speaker 5: Now, can we ring ring Buckle in to a story
Speaker 5: you have brought us again today?
Speaker 4: I would love to. Now I've heard the listeners, so
Speaker 4: this one's a little bit longer, is good. I've heard
Speaker 4: you've heard them. I have also got a stegosaurus on
Speaker 4: my foot right now.
Speaker 5: I can't imagine that would be quite heavy, but I'm
Speaker 5: going to do what's of thing the other day actually
Speaker 5: saying that because feathers nor fur can fossilize, there is
Speaker 5: serious possibilities that dinosaurs were actually feathered.
Speaker 4: Feathered real would be funny.
Speaker 3: Imagine t Rex with lots of feathers.
Speaker 1: Imagine that he loves he loves it.
Speaker 4: He's just picked up his stegosaurus and gone like this one,
Speaker 4: this one, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: He breaks all the glasses in the house, Karen Mass
Speaker 1: and hopefully that'll stop him.
Speaker 4: All right, We see if I can tell you what's
Speaker 4: story beautiful?
Speaker 2: We could try.
Speaker 4: We could drive forty minutes. Okay, it's June eighty eighty,
Speaker 4: it's not.
Speaker 3: It's January twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4: Nice one, George, nice one. You did that in the store.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's actually February. You don't get a sticker, stickers,
Speaker 1: it's June eighteen eighty.
Speaker 4: The bush land surround in this local hotel feels eerily quiet.
Speaker 4: A group of about thirty policemen move as quietly as
Speaker 4: they can and surround the property. From inside the hotel,
Speaker 4: they can hear the sounds of the people that the
Speaker 4: criminals inside have taken hostage. One sergeant gives the signal
Speaker 4: and the police start firing. The criminals inside the hotel fireback.
Speaker 4: When the shooting stops, the hotel door opens very slowly,
Speaker 4: and the female owner of the hotel steps out with
Speaker 4: their hands raised. At the police's signal, she approaches them
Speaker 4: and makes an offer on the criminal's behalf. Before dawn,
Speaker 4: they will release all the women and children from inside
Speaker 4: the hotel. She also tells them her young son has
Speaker 4: been shot and she will bring him out first. The
Speaker 4: police agree to the terms, and she returns to the
Speaker 4: hotel true to their word. Just as the sky starts
Speaker 4: to turn from the full black of night to the
Speaker 4: slow rising gray of dawn. The hotel door opens again
Speaker 4: and the women and children who have been held hostage,
Speaker 4: start to exit the hotel. Suddenly one officer he is
Speaker 4: a noise in the bush behind them. He turns to
Speaker 4: see an extraordinary sight. A man steps through the fog.
Speaker 4: He's wearing a long black trench coat and lock what
Speaker 4: looks like a helmet made out of steel.
Speaker 1: Is this where the wild things are?
Speaker 4: The helmet is huge and only has a small slip
Speaker 4: for the man's eyes. The figure is brandishing two pistols
Speaker 4: in his yells come at me, your bastards, you can't
Speaker 4: hurt me. This is the story of Australia's most famous criminal, Kelly.
Speaker 1: Yes, as I call him Nended Kelly.
Speaker 4: I'll try and remember that ned lead fun. I like it,
Speaker 4: that's fun, that's.
Speaker 1: Kelly because I've been I you know, I think in school,
Speaker 1: like we've got taught about you know, Birkehm Wills Ned Kelly,
Speaker 1: and you get taught that he is a hero. And
Speaker 1: it's so interesting that we have a you know, in
Speaker 1: in Australia one of the biggest heroes along with Chopper
Speaker 1: May he rest in ps Well Leonard ned Ed. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but we always get taught that he's a hero. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm very interested in this.
Speaker 4: So my next sentence is most Australians think they know
Speaker 4: the story of Bushranger and Heroonically.
Speaker 5: I do feel like the tide is turning on that
Speaker 5: because like skinheads and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: You mean like it's twenty twenty six and we have
Speaker 4: to still tell people nazis a bad Is that what
Speaker 4: I mean?
Speaker 1: Yes? Fortunately, natzis a bad. Yeah, but they kind of
Speaker 1: a sign off for the podcast pss nazis a bad.
Speaker 4: Ps Burke and Wills right yep. Near Melbourne Zoo when
Speaker 4: you go around the avenue there there's a cairn on
Speaker 4: the left hand side of the road that says that
Speaker 4: it commemorates That's where they started their journey.
Speaker 1: In Melbourne Zoo. I didn't know they had opposite opposite
Speaker 1: a family.
Speaker 4: Park family to see the elephants. They actually started their
Speaker 4: story at Spencer Street station and that can outside Melbourne
Speaker 4: Zoo is how far they got on their first day.
Speaker 4: Oh really, from Spinster Street save to the zoo.
Speaker 3: I didn't know they even had the V line.
Speaker 4: They were deeply terrible explorers. They only they only decided
Speaker 4: to get rid of the bath that they were carrying.
Speaker 1: By the way, it is so funny.
Speaker 4: They owned four k's. Yeah about four case. That's the
Speaker 4: first night they camned Will's, got on his horse and
Speaker 4: went back into Melbourne to watch an opera and came
Speaker 4: back because they'd only gone four case.
Speaker 2: Relatable content, Yeah, totally relatable.
Speaker 4: Not our man, not our man today. So Ned Kelly
Speaker 4: is louded in modern Australian folklore as a hero, yes,
Speaker 4: noble bush ranging outlaw who spoke out against the tyranny
Speaker 4: of the early Australian government, a man who's innovative and led,
Speaker 4: ended his life with an iconic catchphrase such his life.
Speaker 4: But the truth we're about to explore is a little
Speaker 4: bit different to that narrative. And I do wonder whether
Speaker 4: if Need was committing his crimes today he would be
Speaker 4: as popular.
Speaker 1: No. I always thought his catchphrase was.
Speaker 2: Yeah a little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: That's from the Meryl Street movie played Kelly.
Speaker 4: Said the famous was anything famously was in Evil and
Speaker 4: Evil Angels as well.
Speaker 3: Did I do forget that?
Speaker 5: We discussed that on our last record that hasn't come
Speaker 5: out yet, and you won't have heard that's not get
Speaker 5: that reference.
Speaker 3: But you will by the time you listened to this back.
Speaker 4: Nice I love it all right. So in eighteen forty two,
Speaker 4: John Kelly was transported from Ireland to Van Demon's Land.
Speaker 1: Philip Ireland, Yes, the Republic of Philip.
Speaker 4: Republic offilm. That's not far philip Land to tell me now.
Speaker 4: His crime was stealing two pigs.
Speaker 1: Oh, pig, pig, pig pig hey y.
Speaker 4: He completed his sentence in eighteen forty eight and he
Speaker 4: was released as a free man. He moved to the
Speaker 4: British colony of Victoria in eighteen fifty and he met
Speaker 4: and married Ellen Quinn. Their records weren't great back then,
Speaker 4: so sometime between December eighteen fifty four and June eighteen
Speaker 4: fifty five, their third son, Edward Kelly was born. Oh okay,
Speaker 4: there's no records to say when he was eighteen?
Speaker 3: No, I reckon, we could get someone who's really into
Speaker 3: astrology to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, as was the case with many irishmen named Edward,
Speaker 4: the boy was referred to as Ned from a very
Speaker 4: young age.
Speaker 5: So I know someone called Edward like by birth and
Speaker 5: has always gone by Ned, but changed his name by
Speaker 5: deed poll to Ned.
Speaker 1: Really, that's I wonder what I'm necessary.
Speaker 4: And not Ward and not h Ed or in any
Speaker 4: other fun combinations. So Ellen and John had eight children
Speaker 4: in total. Oo oh boy, that no telling boy. The
Speaker 4: family lived in Beveridge, Victoria, on a small plot of
Speaker 4: land they at least from the government. The land was
Speaker 4: described as poor farming land, which is why it was cheap.
Speaker 4: In eighteen sixty five, Ned's father, John was jailed for
Speaker 4: killing a neighbour's cow. His defense was that had wandered
Speaker 4: on to his property. He stated, once the animal was
Speaker 4: on his land, it was by right his to slaughter
Speaker 4: to feed his family. Goldwall, that was a cow. Its
Speaker 4: not June, and it was a cow. He served six
Speaker 4: months in jail. Around six months after his release, in
Speaker 4: December eighteen sixty six, John Kelly passed away. At the funeral,
Speaker 4: Ned's mother, Ellen was enraged to see the wife of
Speaker 4: the man whose cow John had killed. She screamed at
Speaker 4: her at the funeral, yelling, you damn English Bible thumper.
Speaker 4: Did you get enough for your heifer yet? I hope
Speaker 4: you soon become a widow like me.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's that's huge a heifer as well.
Speaker 3: How did you point at Diggs.
Speaker 4: Out calling No, I wasn't calling him heifer at this time?
Speaker 4: Around one quarter of Victoria's population was Irish. Some were
Speaker 4: pre settlers, but a lot were, like Ned's father, convicts
Speaker 4: who had been released and settled in the area. Many
Speaker 4: of the irishmen joined the police, as it was a reg job.
Speaker 4: Ned was brought up hating the idea of the police.
Speaker 4: After the cow incident, the Kelly family saw themselves as
Speaker 4: victims of police persecution.
Speaker 5: They only went to for six months that much.
Speaker 4: Yeah. In the Giraldary letter Sorry. In the Glary letter,
Speaker 4: Ned wrote that the Irish police were the worst kind
Speaker 4: of traders, saying that they were forgoing the Catholic heritage
Speaker 4: to suckle at the English teat, and he called them
Speaker 4: lazy loafers who had deserted this shamrock. Okay, now what
Speaker 4: I like to imagine the great and good Jonathan Groff
Speaker 4: just walking up behind Ned and going.
Speaker 2: Officially one of us.
Speaker 3: Can't you will be back my face when you said,
Speaker 3: the great Jonathan, I know.
Speaker 4: I know how much you love him, my husband. So
Speaker 4: even though they made up twenty five percent of the colony,
Speaker 4: the Irish were ostracized in the settlement Need was fiercely Irish.
Speaker 4: In eighteen sixty six, the idea of being Australian as
Speaker 4: we knew it today didn't exist. The national identity didn't
Speaker 4: truly start to form until Australians.
Speaker 3: Diggs just knocked Overgs.
Speaker 4: Has just knocked over a camera. I love it, stand
Speaker 4: by everybody.
Speaker 5: That's a problem because you've you've made sure you're the
Speaker 5: favorite so much, Scott that now when you're here, he
Speaker 5: just wants to play. And he said, why are you
Speaker 5: sitting there looking at them and reading.
Speaker 4: We're doing pats while we're telling stories, just in case
Speaker 4: people can't see that, all right, So the national identity
Speaker 4: of Australians didn't really become what it is that we
Speaker 4: know today until Australian soldiers serving in the Boer War
Speaker 4: in eighteen ninety eight and eighteen ninety nine banded together
Speaker 4: and began to be known for their solidarity to each other.
Speaker 4: The German soldiers that served with them had a word
Speaker 4: which roughly meant to sit together to eat. They started
Speaker 4: using this term mate to describe the Australian soldiers who
Speaker 4: always seemed to stick together, and the idea of mate
Speaker 4: ship began to bloom yeah after federation in nineteen oh one,
Speaker 4: the idea of being Australian really started to solidify in
Speaker 4: the culture. But in Ned's lifetime he never considered himself
Speaker 4: an Australian really yep. As an aside, he would have
Speaker 4: had a very strong Irish accent, it didn't sound like
Speaker 4: an Australian and he didn't identify as in Australian, very Australian,
Speaker 4: very Australian, sound like an Australian Rude. Ned was twelve
Speaker 4: when his father died, and being the eldest son, he
Speaker 4: had to leave school and take up his role as
Speaker 4: the head of the family. Wow, the Kelley family started
Speaker 4: to spend more time on the wrong side of the law.
Speaker 4: A quote from the Banella Farmers and Squatter's Journal in
Speaker 4: eighteen sixty nine, We're about to come to one of
Speaker 4: my favorite names I've ever heard. And I checked this
Speaker 4: four times. Make sure he is sure. I promise you.
Speaker 3: I checked to make sure this really built this up.
Speaker 4: I know. A quote from the Banella Farmers and Squads
Speaker 4: Journal in October eighteen sixty nine said Ned Kelly answered
Speaker 4: to the charge of robbery today from a Chinese person.
Speaker 4: They didn't say Chinese person, but I said that.
Speaker 1: Because that's what the cool way to describe him is today.
Speaker 4: The man whose first name was Ah and his surname
Speaker 4: was fwk Oh, okay, great name, great might like what
Speaker 4: my champagne glasses. The man whose name was Ah Fook.
Speaker 2: You're very grown up. Yeah, that's the only reason you.
Speaker 3: Didn't giggle when you said eighteen sixty.
Speaker 4: Nine, he said Ned. He said Ned had stopped him
Speaker 4: and stolen his purse, which contained ten shillings. The police
Speaker 4: went to Ellen's home to arrest Ned, but he escaped
Speaker 4: out the back of the house while Allan set two
Speaker 4: vicious dogs loose on the police.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Ned also spoke of this incident in the Jildary letter
Speaker 4: which we're going to talk about, saying that he was
Speaker 4: a free man and not shackled by the English law
Speaker 4: of the colony. His defense to the charge was that
Speaker 4: the Chinese man had approached their home and asked his
Speaker 4: sister for water. Ned's sister would not allow a person
Speaker 4: with yellow skin to drink the family water, and so
Speaker 4: offered in water from the creek.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yep.
Speaker 4: The man became angry at this slight, and he and
Speaker 4: Ned got into a small fight. Ned claimed the man
Speaker 4: had run off after the fight and dropped his purse.
Speaker 4: He was simply holding the purse until the man returned.
Speaker 4: Sure Jan Ned gave the Ned gave the purse to
Speaker 4: the police to return, although remarkably it was empty, and
Speaker 4: Ned avoided a conviction. I did th think about that
Speaker 4: if your champagn guys should say foreshadowing with a couple
Speaker 4: of little music nights.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, beautiful as well, but.
Speaker 2: I like the other one, my beautiful cut, beautiful catching.
Speaker 4: One of Ned's companions was bush ranger Harry Power. It
Speaker 4: was a fifty one year old high woman, and he
Speaker 4: and Ned would stop and rob coaches together.
Speaker 3: It's a pretty cool name for a bush ranger.
Speaker 1: Also robin coaches and stuff like. It does feel cool
Speaker 1: when it does sound cool.
Speaker 4: In eighteen seventy, fifteen year old Ned and Harry were
Speaker 4: caught by the police for a robbery. Ned was dismissed
Speaker 4: on the charge because the witnesses could only identify Harry
Speaker 4: Power and did not see Ned's face.
Speaker 3: So fifteen year old and a fifty one year old
Speaker 3: are going about just.
Speaker 4: Hanging out, Yeah, just hanging, just chilling, just robin.
Speaker 2: Just Robing're not just chilling, just robin yep.
Speaker 4: Neddi is said to have told his brothers that this
Speaker 4: incident taught him to hide his face when undertaking criminal
Speaker 4: like a bush. A few months later, ned was arrested
Speaker 4: for stealing a horse. The horse name he was a horse.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, of course, of course.
Speaker 4: I like it. His defense was he could not have
Speaker 4: stolen the horse because he and his uncle had been
Speaker 4: tending cattle. Yes, okay, at this time, the term tending
Speaker 4: meant carstrating the young bulls young male cattle. Probably does. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we're looking at you, mister Philip Island. The truth about
Speaker 4: the incident was that there was a young woman, Missus McCormack,
Speaker 4: who lived in the area. Ned's mother had been speaking
Speaker 4: at dinner a few minutes prior and said that the
Speaker 4: mccormacks were having trouble conceiving a baby.
Speaker 3: I don't know where this is going.
Speaker 4: Ned thought it would be hilarious to take a set
Speaker 4: of the car strated testicles, wrap them in a note
Speaker 4: for Missus McCormack definitely not on board, which offered her
Speaker 4: the testicles to try in the place of her husb.
Speaker 3: That is fucking disgusting, hilarious.
Speaker 1: God, Yeah, I don't know about this. Ned. No, the
Speaker 1: more I hear about this.
Speaker 4: Need to you, I don't know if it's going to
Speaker 4: turn out.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4: He gave the package to a young boy and paid
Speaker 4: him a shilling to deliver it to the woman. The
Speaker 4: boy mistakenly delivered the package to mister McCormack.
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, okay, he didn't see it.
Speaker 4: He didn't see that. A lived to the wrong guy,
Speaker 4: and he was furious. The man went to the police
Speaker 4: the next day to accuse Ned of stealing his horse.
Speaker 4: Ned said it must the worst. Ned said it must
Speaker 4: have wondered off. Mister McCormack then challenged need to a
Speaker 4: public fight. Tender commands, Yeah, fifteen sixteen?
Speaker 5: Sorry, would anyone older than a teenage boy thinks delivered
Speaker 5: would be funny? Man?
Speaker 1: Challenge to a fight? Yeah, bizarre, that is true.
Speaker 3: He'd watched Hamilton.
Speaker 4: Ned rode up to the fight on McCormack's horse.
Speaker 1: Which his brother had stolen.
Speaker 4: After Ned soundly beat him, McCormack returned to the police,
Speaker 4: now with evidence that Ned had stolen the horse, was
Speaker 4: charged with horse theft, and for the testical incident, he
Speaker 4: was charged with conduct unbecoming a man of the British Empire.
Speaker 3: I agree with that.
Speaker 4: It's a very excellent charge.
Speaker 1: So lucky.
Speaker 4: Ned's response in local court was he was a free
Speaker 4: man and not a subject to the British Empire. However,
Speaker 4: he was found guilty on both counts and served six
Speaker 4: months three months reach charge.
Speaker 1: My god, but have you seen that sasaurus Ny.
Speaker 4: After serving his time, Ned walked out of jail and
Speaker 4: stole the horse that was in the main street to
Speaker 4: ride home. He was immediately arrested again. He said to
Speaker 4: the judge that as a free man, he believed the
Speaker 4: evidence against him was false.
Speaker 1: A magistrate, I am.
Speaker 4: He was sentenced to three years. Eighteen year old Ned
Speaker 4: was released in eighteen seventy three. He got a job
Speaker 4: working in a saw mill and for a time became
Speaker 4: quite settled. He worked there for three years and became
Speaker 4: a foreman at twenty one. He was walking in the
Speaker 4: bush one day and he saw a wild bull. He
Speaker 4: went home to gather some things and return, capturing the
Speaker 4: bull before taking it to the farm of a friend.
Speaker 4: The farmer had the animal butchered and sold the meat.
Speaker 4: Father of father, farmer, James Whitey, came forward the next
Speaker 4: day to say that Ned had actually stolen the bull
Speaker 4: from his land.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, the apple never falls far from the tree,
Speaker 3: does it.
Speaker 1: No it does, it doesn't, No it doesn't. It's nice
Speaker 1: to be supported to the boys got here.
Speaker 4: It's true.
Speaker 1: No it doesn't, No, it doesn't.
Speaker 4: James Whitey was a free English settler who near hated.
Speaker 4: James had been gifted land by Victoria's governor, and ned
Speaker 4: believed that because the English yoke over the colony was
Speaker 4: a false rule, that the ownership of land by James
Speaker 4: was invalid. This made the land wild, and therefore the bull.
Speaker 1: Was also wild.
Speaker 4: A local policeman, Flood was his name, was well known
Speaker 4: to steal livestock. He was very good at it.
Speaker 3: The cob.
Speaker 4: It was said he stole the same horse four times
Speaker 4: and sold it for four different people.
Speaker 1: It's amazing for the man who saw the Eiffel Tower twice.
Speaker 5: Yes, smaller scale, but double the double the number of times.
Speaker 4: When I was growing up, there was the lake at
Speaker 4: Yielden was dry for a long time up in northern Victoria,
Speaker 4: and there was somebody selling land in the lake as
Speaker 4: development land. Okay, so he saw the world ball. So
Speaker 4: the local policeman sold the horse four times to four
Speaker 4: different people. Officer Floods stole one of the Kelly's family
Speaker 4: horses and hid it in a barn on James Whitey's property.
Speaker 3: Hard do you steal a horse?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: What's the Here we go, what's the best.
Speaker 4: This is going to be great, Sammy, whatever this is,
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to this. I'm leaning forward.
Speaker 3: What kind of cheese do you use to hide a horse?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Georgia. What sort of cheese you use
Speaker 1: to a horse?
Speaker 3: Mask a pony?
Speaker 1: N one? Is that what you've written there?
Speaker 4: That's a classic I did. I didn't actually, Oh see
Speaker 4: if I weave it into the story? Yeah, what's that
Speaker 4: I just did? How do you get a bear to
Speaker 4: come out of his cave? Come on? Bear? I did
Speaker 4: that joke wrong. It should have been what sort of
Speaker 4: cheese do you need to get?
Speaker 3: You can't all be perfect to get a.
Speaker 4: Clean edited here. So, in response to his horse being stolen,
Speaker 4: ned went to the barn on James White's property, stole
Speaker 4: all eleven horses inside, and sold them in another town. Wow.
Speaker 4: What he didn't know at the time was that the
Speaker 4: man he sold the stolen horses too was an under
Speaker 4: cover policemen and Ned and his brother Dan were now
Speaker 4: officially wanted men. This is huge. In February eighteen seventy eight,
Speaker 4: a constable Fitzpatrick was on his way to work when
Speaker 4: he saw Dan Kelly walking along the road. It's brother.
Speaker 4: He arrested Dan on site. Dan said he would agree
Speaker 4: to go to jail, but first could he go home
Speaker 4: because his mother had already prepared a meal for him
Speaker 4: to eat.
Speaker 3: I also liked the I'll agree to go to jail, I'm.
Speaker 4: Not sure I want, but the constable agreed, stop it.
Speaker 4: He did. They walked into Allen's house together, and the
Speaker 4: constable was surprised to see Ned, who everyone believed was
Speaker 4: on the run.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: So he stitched his brother up as well. By bringing
Speaker 5: the cop to his house.
Speaker 2: He did a little bit hilarious.
Speaker 4: A fight break out, A gun was fired, and Allan
Speaker 4: hit the constable on the head with his shovel, knocking
Speaker 4: him unconscious.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, mom, please.
Speaker 4: Know when he came to Ned was digging a bullet
Speaker 4: out of the Constable's wrist, because if they had no bullet,
Speaker 4: they had no proof.
Speaker 3: Oh my, this hole just appeared in my wrist. But
Speaker 3: I don't know how your honor.
Speaker 4: After he finished, Ned let the constable go, explaining that
Speaker 4: he should probably go back to town and say he'd
Speaker 4: fallen off his horse.
Speaker 5: Oh wow, my god, this family man confortable.
Speaker 4: Fitzpatrick did not do this, and he returned to the
Speaker 4: home with other policemen and arrested Alan Kelly and two
Speaker 4: of her daughters, ned Dan and their friends Steve Hart
Speaker 4: and Joe Byrne, avoided arrest by going on the run.
Speaker 5: Good, leave the girls behind, We'll just find for ourselves.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and one of the boys first. One of the
Speaker 4: things in the in the Kelly folklore is that he
Speaker 4: only did what he did because of the way the
Speaker 4: cops treated his mother. But that's what happened. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: then he buged off so that he wouldn't get and
Speaker 4: allowed his mother to get arrested.
Speaker 1: Also, God, I don't know that, Kelly. I told you
Speaker 1: that about this guy.
Speaker 4: Sure. In May ed robbed a young man of his horse,
Speaker 4: watch and fourteen pounds. He and what the police were
Speaker 4: now calling the Kelly Gang committed many small robberies and
Speaker 4: held up several people over the next few months. Now
Speaker 4: they were in the place called the border country. And
Speaker 4: I've actually bought a map that's on the table there
Speaker 4: between us.
Speaker 3: Good, let me grab it so.
Speaker 4: That you guys can get an idea of what the
Speaker 4: border country is. So for our international listeners or people
Speaker 4: printed in color, yep, people that don't know Victoria very well. Technically,
Speaker 4: the Murray River is the border between Victoria and New
Speaker 4: South Wales and the towns on either side of it
Speaker 4: are called the border country. So that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 5: They owned area called the Wombat Rangers, which is a
Speaker 5: lovely name.
Speaker 4: Is see wombats there? Because Australians are really good at
Speaker 4: naming stuff.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 5: My favorite place name in Australia, well, no, sorry, I lie.
Speaker 5: My favorite place name is in Tasmania called Eggs and
Speaker 5: Bacon Bay.
Speaker 3: But I don't know why it's called that.
Speaker 5: But my favorite lazy place name is also in Tasmania,
Speaker 5: and it is there's a large bridge over the river
Speaker 5: and the town is called Bridgewater Bridge later.
Speaker 3: Bridge, Well, what can we see? Bridge water?
Speaker 2: It's perfect, perfect.
Speaker 4: When we've had people here. Every time we have people here,
Speaker 4: they want to go and see the apostles. So you
Speaker 4: go down and so you drive through the town. So right,
Speaker 4: what's this town called lawn. How do you know, Well,
Speaker 4: there's the lawn Hotel. Yeah, exactly, and next to that's
Speaker 4: the lawn fish tub.
Speaker 1: Show the way.
Speaker 4: So they rained the bush in what was called the
Speaker 4: Border country. This area stretches along the Murray, which is
Speaker 4: the border between New Southwest and Victoria. They traveled as
Speaker 4: far south as Euroa and as far north as Geraldry.
Speaker 4: In an effort to find them. The police set up
Speaker 4: encampments at Stringy Buck.
Speaker 3: Creek another great name Oka. What kind of trees do
Speaker 3: you reckon? They had there. A kind of bark came
Speaker 3: off the trees.
Speaker 4: Answer the question, show you working. There were four or
Speaker 4: five police at the camp. One day, Constable McIntire was
Speaker 4: at the camp cooking alone when he thought he heard
Speaker 4: something in the bush. He looked about but found nothing
Speaker 4: of concern. Later, two other men returned and they sat
Speaker 4: around the campfire eating. They heard someone yell out, bailiff,
Speaker 4: throw up your hands. Three members of the Kelly gang
Speaker 4: stepped out of the bush. Ned was holding two rifles
Speaker 4: and the other one were holding a gun each. Constable
Speaker 4: Lonigan ran from there towards the trees where his rifle
Speaker 4: was leaning. Ned turned and shot him in the temple.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 4: Once he fell, Dan Kelly walked over and shot him again.
Speaker 4: Ned said, what a pity.
Speaker 3: That fool ran Oh my god.
Speaker 4: The gang tied up the other officers and took what
Speaker 4: they wanted from the camp. Once it was done, he
Speaker 4: untied the man and said he would set them free.
Speaker 4: But it wasn't worth chasing him through the bush because let.
Speaker 1: Me ask you this, he was quite hards the cop killer,
Speaker 1: wasn't he.
Speaker 4: But that's this that was you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But like he killed quite a few cops in there.
Speaker 4: He killed three. These are the main There was others
Speaker 4: that were killed in the shootout that was at the
Speaker 4: start of the story.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah. It's just so interesting that we have
Speaker 1: seen him as a hero.
Speaker 4: For lore and killed tolped me if you've heard this
Speaker 4: story before, right, But he he shot three policemen and
Speaker 4: then ran off into the bush.
Speaker 1: There's nothing a little guy called Shrek one of her
Speaker 1: please stop.
Speaker 4: You please to continue. And he did call himself a
Speaker 4: free man. Similarities at all? Is there no shrimp blood?
Speaker 4: Shrek it's not a good color, and you shrimp, He'll
Speaker 4: come to hell.
Speaker 1: It's really quite nice. They're making a lord f word
Speaker 1: far Quad.
Speaker 4: Making an orange quarry of Lord far Quad and Robert
Speaker 4: DeNiro Farwards.
Speaker 3: Oh well died. Sorry, Scott's having a moment.
Speaker 1: You broke me.
Speaker 4: Stop saying.
Speaker 1: Mister please, mister was my father, clef.
Speaker 4: Okay, it's a good film. You're right. This story is
Speaker 4: really about.
Speaker 1: S when you really think about it. The big reveal
Speaker 1: at the end.
Speaker 4: Cold Trail time, Oh dear. Before the Kelly kan could leave,
Speaker 4: two other police returned to the camp and saw the scene.
Speaker 4: They raised their guns and were immediately killed by need.
Speaker 4: In the chaos, McIntyre jumped on a horse and rode
Speaker 4: away as fast as he could. This incident became known
Speaker 4: as the murder at Stringing Buck Creek. Yes, McIntyre rode
Speaker 4: into town and returned with soldiers to find the campside,
Speaker 4: but campsite burned and the bodies of the officers left
Speaker 4: where they had been shot. A reward of two hundred
Speaker 4: pounds was offered for information leading to the capture of
Speaker 4: the Kelly Gang.
Speaker 1: Two hundred pounds back, like that would be a lot
Speaker 1: of money. Yeah, well, if we're talking.
Speaker 5: About okay, so if I carry the two and then
Speaker 5: divide by nine eighteen seventy three.
Speaker 1: If the pound was going at two miles an hour
Speaker 1: and it had to catch up to four miles an
Speaker 1: hour over one hundred How much is that?
Speaker 4: How likely is it?
Speaker 3: I think it's yeah, it's a park was.
Speaker 4: In your honor, so it was a lot. Anyway. A
Speaker 4: reward of two hundred pounds was off of information leading
Speaker 4: to the capture of the Kelly gang. Ned and his
Speaker 4: gang disappeared into the Victorian bush who was said they
Speaker 4: knew the location of many Bushman's huts. They've been hiding
Speaker 4: cashes of weapons and food around the area. Sounds like
Speaker 4: something else as well, doesn't it. The papers called Kelly
Speaker 4: a most vindictive outlaws.
Speaker 3: Beautiful thing to say, his most.
Speaker 4: Vindictive, most dative. He's not behaving in the matter of
Speaker 4: the British impart exactly.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this Scot as well. At this
Speaker 1: point there was no helmet at this point, was there?
Speaker 4: No? No, No, that's a long while.
Speaker 1: She's so incredible as well. That is the most I
Speaker 1: guess I'll tell you identify him.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So his response to being called that is
Speaker 4: that in the Jerilledary letter was that he said he
Speaker 4: was only hiding out until he found out if Allan
Speaker 4: his mother was convicted of assaulting Fitzpatrick. If she was convicted,
Speaker 4: he threatened to find and kill every man associated with
Speaker 4: the conviction. Right Allen was found guilty and sentenced to
Speaker 4: three years.
Speaker 3: It's because she shot a police officer a bit, just
Speaker 3: a bit, just in the wrist.
Speaker 4: Allegedly because there was no bullet, no.
Speaker 3: Not allegedly.
Speaker 1: She was found guilty.
Speaker 4: Police were now undertaking a full man hunt, with rumors
Speaker 4: that the Calligang were heading to New South Wales. The
Speaker 4: police and soldiers set up patrols on both sides of.
Speaker 1: The Murray River.
Speaker 4: One evening, a patrol on the New South Wales side
Speaker 4: of the river came under fire. It turned out it
Speaker 4: was a patrol on the Victorian side of the river
Speaker 4: shooting at them.
Speaker 1: Oh Desi Freman, Ned.
Speaker 5: Ray didn't get that we were saying Dei Freman before
Speaker 5: you thought we're talking about and now you brought him.
Speaker 2: That doesn't reference him at all.
Speaker 4: When when Ned heard about this incident, he wrote, I
Speaker 4: kept them policing work, even getting them double pay for
Speaker 4: their long hours, but they seemed to be ungrateful.
Speaker 3: Ned.
Speaker 5: The correct use of English is those, not them. Come on,
Speaker 5: this guy, couldn't get any worse.
Speaker 4: I think your dog wants to come back inside La
Speaker 4: Park and just during his dad. Okay. The reward for
Speaker 4: the Kelly Gang was raised to five hundred pounds. In
Speaker 4: November eighteen seventy eight. A special law was also passed
Speaker 4: in Parliament called the Victorian Felon's Apprehension Act, named the
Speaker 4: Kelly Gang Ned, Dan, Joe Burn, Steve Hart, and made
Speaker 4: them legal No Paul, no Paul, no Ringer. It made
Speaker 4: them legal outlaws. This meant any common man could legally
Speaker 4: shoot them. WHOA, if someone did shoot them, it would
Speaker 4: not be treated as assault or murder.
Speaker 1: That's all interesting because that's like the Santa Claus robbery
Speaker 1: that when we spoke about that that it was like
Speaker 1: a five thousand dollars reward. Any to any robber that
Speaker 1: held up a bank, you'll be able to shoot them
Speaker 1: and you get be rewarded.
Speaker 4: And this law also imposed a fifteen year mandatory sentence
Speaker 4: for anyone who was found to have aided the Kelly Gang. Wow,
Speaker 4: so five thousand dollars reward ned. Kelley and his gang
Speaker 4: made plans to rob a bank in Euroa arrived in
Speaker 4: town at about three pm. The bank was closed, got
Speaker 4: it putting that perfect yep. So Ned knocked on the door,
Speaker 4: and when it was opened, he put a gun to
Speaker 4: the clerk's head and forced his way inside, declaring, I
Speaker 4: am Ned Kelly.
Speaker 1: The gang would to identify yourself in a situation.
Speaker 4: The gang kept watch while Ned took around two thousand
Speaker 4: pounds from the banks safe.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, wow, it could have.
Speaker 4: Been more, But in front of the terrified clerk and manager,
Speaker 4: Ned counted out five hundred pounds and put it on
Speaker 4: the counter, saying it was to help the government pay
Speaker 4: their ransom.
Speaker 3: No, sorry, do not try to act like a good
Speaker 3: guy in this situation.
Speaker 4: Well, he's saying, here, government take this, yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 4: really being a good guy. The government's response was swift.
Speaker 4: They sent more than fifty soldiers to guard banks in
Speaker 4: the surrounding towns and employed local Aboriginal men to work
Speaker 4: with them to hunt the gang. Steve Hart, one of
Speaker 4: the Kelly gang, was known to dress up as a
Speaker 4: woman and ride into town to gather information about the
Speaker 4: police's movements.
Speaker 2: Britain the height of Humor.
Speaker 1: And Shakespeare, it's in the bank, compete said.
Speaker 4: No, he's just there in his helmet.
Speaker 2: Everyone else going, what's a computer to be a funny skin?
Speaker 1: Some good stuff like that.
Speaker 4: So one day, while undertaking this deception, Steve was stopped
Speaker 4: by a group of shearers who said they were concerned
Speaker 4: about a young lady riding alone, especially with dangerous men
Speaker 4: on the loose. Kelly Gang said that no, Steve was
Speaker 4: dressed as a woman. Right.
Speaker 5: I was lost in the humor of that thought.
Speaker 4: So Steve, dressed as a woman, said I fear nothing
Speaker 4: from them, and nor should they for me, and rode off.
Speaker 4: In February eighteen seventy nine, the Kelly Gang rode into
Speaker 4: the town of Gildry at around three pm on a Sunday.
Speaker 4: They went directly to the police station, captured the officers
Speaker 4: and locked them in their cells. Oh my god, bull the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are not lording that. We don't like it.
Speaker 4: We don't like that behavior, yeah to the police. The
Speaker 4: cops up at three o'clock on the Sunday. They then
Speaker 4: took control of the local hotel and had to wait
Speaker 4: until Monday morning for the bank to open.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, last night's.
Speaker 4: Late During the night, Ned had written a manifesto, and
Speaker 4: he read sections of the manifesto to his hostages.
Speaker 1: Oh how painful.
Speaker 4: This fifty six page document became known as the Giraldry Letter.
Speaker 5: Right when you were saying the Giraldary letter before, because
Speaker 5: hadn't heard of that. I thought it meant like he
Speaker 5: had written like open letters to the local newspapers.
Speaker 2: That's quite interesting.
Speaker 4: I wrote what people who have studied it since said,
Speaker 4: is an insane fifty six page manifesto about manifest about
Speaker 4: freedom and really why he's not guilty and all that.
Speaker 4: So after they robbed the bank on Monday, Ned gave
Speaker 4: the manifesto to the publican and made him promise to
Speaker 4: have it published.
Speaker 3: It was a public and not a publisher.
Speaker 4: He got that wrong. The manifesto was never published and
Speaker 4: the police were given it by the publican. In the
Speaker 4: manifesto been released ever, like was not published, but it's available,
Speaker 4: but you've got to a request for it. I forget
Speaker 4: it in the manifesto. In the manifesto, Ned is it
Speaker 4: pains to explain that he was a victim of the
Speaker 4: English yoke of law, which was a blight on his
Speaker 4: country and something he did not accept. On the murder
Speaker 4: at stringing Bart Creek, he said, I never meant to
Speaker 4: shoot Kenny, Kennedy Orlon Again, they could have saved their
Speaker 4: own lives by laying down their arms. It cannot be
Speaker 4: considered a brutal murder as it was simply a case
Speaker 4: of survival.
Speaker 5: It sounds like bloody that ice Raiders Alex pretty anyway
Speaker 5: stopped American.
Speaker 3: Politics a little bit. But he had a gun, so
Speaker 3: we had to shoot him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, even though we've been fighting for men to say
Speaker 4: that he could have a gun.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 4: After the Jewildary incident, the reward for the capture of
Speaker 4: Ned Kelly was increased to fifteen thousand pounds, who huge
Speaker 4: amount of money. In June eighteen eighty, Aaron Shirt was
Speaker 4: sitting inside his home when someone called him to come outside.
Speaker 4: When he walked outside, Joe Byrne, a member of the
Speaker 4: Kelly gang, immediately shot and killed him.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Joe killed Aaron because they had heard a rumor that
Speaker 4: there were police hiding in his house. The rest of
Speaker 4: the gang stepped out of hiding and started shooting at
Speaker 4: the house. The police who were hiding inside escaped through
Speaker 4: the back door because the Kelly gang didn't think to
Speaker 4: walk around.
Speaker 3: Oh my good.
Speaker 4: Ned Kelly set fire to the house and the gang
Speaker 4: waited and watched it burn to see if anyone came out.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Hell, he's a folk hero, George.
Speaker 4: Why are you're looking at me like that?
Speaker 3: Very angry.
Speaker 4: In late June eighteen eighty, the station master at glen
Speaker 4: Rowland was woken by a knock at his door. When
Speaker 4: he opened it, Ned Kelly, brandishing a gun, asked him
Speaker 4: to come to the station. When they arrived at the station,
Speaker 4: the station master saw at least ten men trying to
Speaker 4: work out how to lift the tracks. Ned told the
Speaker 4: station master to show the men how to remove the
Speaker 4: track sections because there was a special train coming from
Speaker 4: Melbourne that we need to intercept, the.
Speaker 3: One carrying burken wills from Spencer Street Station.
Speaker 1: That's correct, making it to the zoo on the first day.
Speaker 4: The special train was filled with provisions, fresh horses, ammunitions
Speaker 4: and soldiers who were coming to continue the hunt for
Speaker 4: the Kelly Gang.
Speaker 3: I don't like the term fresh horses.
Speaker 4: Beautiful delicious fresh, Ned Ward and the station manager not
Speaker 4: to signal the train. After their work was done, the
Speaker 4: gang retired to the James Hotel to wait for news
Speaker 4: of the debailment. What Ned did not know is that
Speaker 4: the station master's wife somehow got word to the train
Speaker 4: and it stopped well before glenrow Yes, queen, yes, quel,
Speaker 4: are we going to do with the young folcus?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: That's skibbity, that's s gibbty.
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good.
Speaker 4: I just found bad. That sounded felt ugly? Man yuck? Okay.
Speaker 4: The soldiers and police got off the train and walked
Speaker 4: into Glen Rowe and quietly surrounding the hotel. At a signal,
Speaker 4: the men started shooting into the hotel and the Cali
Speaker 4: gang fired back. The son of the hotel owner was
Speaker 4: shot but not killed. The shooting lasted over thirty minutes,
Speaker 4: and once the shootout lasted over, whoa. And once the
Speaker 4: shooting slid down, Ned sent the female owner of the
Speaker 4: hotel out to tell the police that he would release
Speaker 4: all the women and children before daybreak. True to their words,
Speaker 4: sometime before sunrise, hostages started to leave the hotel. This
Speaker 4: was a ruse which allowed Ned to sneak out of
Speaker 4: the hotel, get into the armor he had hidden in
Speaker 4: the scrub, and surprised the soldiers from behind.
Speaker 3: How did he manage to sneak out.
Speaker 4: The back door because they also forgot to go.
Speaker 3: Everyone's just forgetting to go to the back door.
Speaker 1: A film there.
Speaker 4: The police were shocked when a figure stepped out of
Speaker 4: the fog behind them. He was wearing a metal breastplate,
Speaker 4: shoulder armor and an iron helmet. The police started, yeah.
Speaker 3: That was now, that was the armor. You never would
Speaker 3: have guessed.
Speaker 4: And there was. I haven't written it out in full
Speaker 4: detail here, but there were several reports in the local
Speaker 4: area of plows being stolen over the months prior to
Speaker 4: this this standoff at glen Rowan plows like a plow
Speaker 4: to plow the field, you know, And so that's that,
Speaker 4: that's the metal that they used to make their own,
Speaker 4: stole them flowers and beat down the metal to turn
Speaker 4: it into my god. So he was wearing a metal breastplate,
Speaker 4: shoulder armor and an iron helmet. The police started shooting,
Speaker 4: but the bullets bounced off Ned Ned's armor. Wegh forty
Speaker 4: four kilos Diggs, it's about that Dick's worth. At one
Speaker 4: point a policeman noticed Ned did not appear to have
Speaker 4: any armor on his legs, and he called out shoot
Speaker 4: the legs, to which Ned yelled, don't do.
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 2: Please, don't do that something.
Speaker 4: Ned was hit by multiple shots and staggered and then
Speaker 4: fell yelling out I'm done. Ned was taken into custody
Speaker 4: while other officers kept firing at Joe Stephen Dan, who
Speaker 4: was still inside the hotel. Paul call, Dan Kelly, Joe Byrne,
Speaker 4: and Steve Hart were all shot dead in the gunfight.
Speaker 4: Ned Kelly's helmet showed at least five bullet strikes when
Speaker 4: he was arrested. Kelly was twenty six years old. Oh
Speaker 4: my god, twenty six.
Speaker 1: I thought it was much older than that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well it would be older if he was
Speaker 3: still alive today. That's probably what you're thinking.
Speaker 1: His brother, Paul Kelly, still sings in a very famous
Speaker 1: band to this day.
Speaker 4: They don't sing any songs about it.
Speaker 1: No, no, he doesn't talk.
Speaker 4: Famously, doesn't talk about me. That is very interesting.
Speaker 5: Don't talk about Is that what to make gravy? Is
Speaker 5: that the brother who talks about Ned?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I never realized that.
Speaker 4: Although it does say hello Dan, it's Joe here and
Speaker 4: either of those names in Ned.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it's called changing creative license.
Speaker 4: I've never done that. Ryni a wook or nothing.
Speaker 3: Ye, yeah, no you haven't.
Speaker 4: Ned was tried and found guilty. The Jewel jury deliberated
Speaker 4: for thirty minutes, talked before returning the verdict. The judge
Speaker 4: sentenced him to death, saying God, have mercy on your soul.
Speaker 4: Ned replied, keep your mercy. I'll see you where I'm going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, seven.
Speaker 5: Least he knows he's going to oh.
Speaker 4: On November eleventh, thirteen eighty neg Kelly was hanged at
Speaker 4: Pintridge Prison. Folklore says his final words were such as life.
Speaker 3: Why do you say folk law?
Speaker 1: Why do you say folklore? Explain your mind clean? Let's
Speaker 1: say folklore.
Speaker 4: We got it.
Speaker 3: I don't like having two men in the room.
Speaker 1: We got it, got one outside.
Speaker 4: In fact, what is officially recorded as his final words
Speaker 4: is oh well, I suppose it has come to this.
Speaker 4: A reporter from the Argus who is at the execution
Speaker 4: wrote the words more sinctly for the paper, and it
Speaker 4: was actually him that coined the phrase such his.
Speaker 3: Life, Oh my god, So all those.
Speaker 1: Football if Ben Cousins regrets that Ben Cousins regrets a
Speaker 1: lot of things.
Speaker 2: Now that says no regrets he has.
Speaker 4: On the other side, it says, oh well, I suppose
Speaker 4: it has come to this.
Speaker 2: Because that's what he actually said as an asterix.
Speaker 4: Not nearly as cool as such as life, right, but
Speaker 4: he never said it.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: So after his execution, Ned's body remained suspended for thirty minutes.
Speaker 4: This was the requirement at the time to ensure the
Speaker 4: prisoner was dead.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 4: He was then wheeled across the yard to the Dead House.
Speaker 3: A nice name for a house.
Speaker 2: How did they name that same the way they named Bridgewater?
Speaker 4: That's right. The bag covering his face was removed and
Speaker 4: Kelly's figures had not been disfigured by the hanging. He
Speaker 4: was described as having a placid expression and his eyes
Speaker 4: were bright. The governor allowed a death mask to be
Speaker 4: made from plaster. Wax works owner Max Krechmeyer shaved Kelly's
Speaker 4: head and beard to make the mask. He made several
Speaker 4: copies and had one hanging for many years in his
Speaker 4: waxworks on Burke Street in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 4: After the mask was casts, so yes, mister mister. And
Speaker 4: if you go to the old Molturne jail in in
Speaker 4: Victoria there they're still they've got one of the death
Speaker 4: masks there. After the mask was cast, Ned's body was
Speaker 4: talking taken to Melbourne University, where the head was severed
Speaker 4: from the body so that the contents of the head
Speaker 4: could be examined. An article in the Herald described the
Speaker 4: treatment of Ned's body. The body was given over after
Speaker 4: the execution to the medical men, and a nice mess
Speaker 4: I am told they made of it. The students particularly
Speaker 4: went in heavily taking a part his body and generally
Speaker 4: examining every organ. It was a ghastly site, indeed, hardly
Speaker 4: ever paralleled. I am told that portions of the corpse
Speaker 4: are now in nearly every curiosity cabinet in Melbourne medical
Speaker 4: men's places. The skull was taken possession of by one gentleman,
Speaker 4: and it is possible that he may hereafter enlighten us
Speaker 4: on the peculiarities of the great criminal's brain. H So
Speaker 4: basically what they're saying is.
Speaker 1: Go second that for George.
Speaker 4: What they're saying is they made a ghastly mess about
Speaker 4: and chopped him to pieces, and all of the students
Speaker 4: who were there took a little souvenir of him, and
Speaker 4: there's probably all over Melbourne. And one of the doctors
Speaker 4: took his skull.
Speaker 5: I mean, I did hear you, I would stand by
Speaker 5: my original moment.
Speaker 4: The next morning, his body was taken back to the
Speaker 4: prison and placed in a coffin. The common practice at
Speaker 4: the time was to fill the coffin with a quicklime
Speaker 4: to speed decomposition. However, the governor stated, had given the
Speaker 4: state of the corpse and the hot summer ahead, it
Speaker 4: will be not required in Nick Kelly's case. I'm telling
Speaker 4: you this for a reason. Trust me, Trust me, self
Speaker 4: proclaimed phrenologist Archibald Hamilton.
Speaker 3: Oh, great night. Yeah, it just doesn't quite have the
Speaker 3: right syllables.
Speaker 4: I still that's right. He could have been a dentist.
Speaker 4: But then I've sung too much.
Speaker 3: Really wants to forget.
Speaker 4: You have a talent for causing pain.
Speaker 5: It's going to be the name of my second memohile,
Speaker 5: you have a talent for course.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 4: Self proclaimed phrenologist Archibald Hamilton had been following the murder
Speaker 4: troll of Ned Kelly with interest. Phrenology, the study of
Speaker 4: science of studying a person's personality based on the shape, curvature,
Speaker 4: and significant landmarks of the head oh was a common
Speaker 4: and popular study at the time of Ned's death. Many
Speaker 4: people in the eighteen eighties strongly believed in the method
Speaker 4: there were stories of men having their potential brides assessed
Speaker 4: for suitability by phrenologists.
Speaker 5: It's a different thing than I thought when people say
Speaker 5: they want to just check the woman's head before Sorry.
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's so sorry.
Speaker 3: There, and I had to say it. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 4: I thought reading that line, you'd pick up and read
Speaker 4: your champaign glass.
Speaker 2: To be honest, a dirty joc.
Speaker 4: So they had their potential brid's assessed for suitability by
Speaker 4: phrenologists before committing to marriage. The practice has also been
Speaker 4: cited and this is disgusting by the British government, as
Speaker 4: proof that Aboriginal people could not become civilized and that
Speaker 4: the European skull bore serious marks of superiority.
Speaker 2: Oh gross gross.
Speaker 4: Phrenologists would also often state the shape of a woman's
Speaker 4: skull suggested a person far more suitable to occupy the
Speaker 4: sphere of the home, and not business occupations that required
Speaker 4: a sharper mind.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, thank you. I hate it. I hate it.
Speaker 4: Thank you. As well as providing phrenology services, Archibald Hamilton
Speaker 4: was an activist against capital punishment. He had established two lectures.
Speaker 4: He had published two lectures on the topic, and reportedly
Speaker 4: headed a group called the Society for the Abolition of
Speaker 4: Capital Punishment. In eighteen eighty, the Society for the Abolition
Speaker 4: of Capital Punishment had two members, Archworld and his wife.
Speaker 3: Can we call a society just a married couple?
Speaker 1: Whole society?
Speaker 4: I like it. But after ned was sentenced, Archibald Hamilton
Speaker 4: met with Ned Kelly's solicitor, his brother and sister, and
Speaker 4: his cousin and formed a reprieve committee for interest. This
Speaker 4: meeting occurred at the Robert Burns Hotel in Smith Street, Collingwood.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, really, oh my god.
Speaker 4: And that's not called Burns Hotel, called the Robbie Burns,
Speaker 4: called the Hotel Colinwood.
Speaker 1: There you go, but it was Robie.
Speaker 4: On November fifth, Archibald Hamilton held a public meeting calling
Speaker 4: for clemency in the case of Ned Kelly. He opened
Speaker 4: the meeting saying, I'm glad to act because he didn't
Speaker 4: think he should be put to death. That's why, because
Speaker 4: he didn't believe in capital punishment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that doesn't mean clemency surely, Well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, clemency to have a change from death to life imprisonment.
Speaker 3: That's a bit late, bab, a bit late late bab.
Speaker 4: You're on record, by the line in several podcasts saying
Speaker 4: you think people shouldn't get no.
Speaker 3: I agree with that. I'm saying a bit it's a
Speaker 3: bit late.
Speaker 2: I don't know about a.
Speaker 4: Bit late, Bub, and he done some bad stuff.
Speaker 1: You've done bad ship, bad on your boys.
Speaker 4: I should bring a bit late. Archibald Hamilton opened the
Speaker 4: meeting saying I'm glad to act as a chairman, not
Speaker 4: merely on behalf of Edward Kelly, but as advocate for
Speaker 4: the abolishment of capital punishment. Archibald then listened while ned
Speaker 4: solicitor gave an account of Kelly's life and circumstances. Archibald
Speaker 4: then concluded by saying, this meeting, having considered all the
Speaker 4: circumstances of Edward Kelly's case, believes it is one fit
Speaker 4: for the exercise of the royal prerogative of mercy, and
Speaker 4: therefore earnestly presses he's excellently the Governor to favorably regard
Speaker 4: the prayer of this meeting, namely that the life of
Speaker 4: the prisoner be spared.
Speaker 3: Before after he died. Yeah, I can understand my confusion.
Speaker 1: All a bit late, Bub.
Speaker 4: The Governor was not swayed and ned Kelly was not No,
Speaker 4: this was just before sorry, it was after his sentencing,
Speaker 4: before his hang on not to lay bor not to.
Speaker 4: The governor was not swayed. Ned was not granted a reprieve,
Speaker 4: as we know, and this put Archie Belt in an
Speaker 4: awkward position because as well as calling for a reprieve,
Speaker 4: he wanted to seek permission to examine the living head
Speaker 4: of Ned Kelly.
Speaker 2: This is so weird.
Speaker 4: If you didn't like the term fresh horses, how do
Speaker 4: you feel about the term living.
Speaker 3: Living examine the living head.
Speaker 4: He wanted to seek permission to examine the living head
Speaker 4: of This permission was not granted. However, he was given
Speaker 4: access to examine Kelly's death mask.
Speaker 3: Ah, Yes, exactly the same.
Speaker 4: A quote from his report, Sir, the outline which I
Speaker 4: propose to give of the character of Edward Kelly is
Speaker 4: drawn entirely from phrenological data. I had no previous knowledge
Speaker 4: before the examination of his head, and I trust that
Speaker 4: the public and especially the authorities of the law, may
Speaker 4: give due consideration to the character herein drawn in strict
Speaker 4: accordance with phrenological science.
Speaker 1: You, sir.
Speaker 4: He goes on to outline the measurements of Ned Kelly's
Speaker 4: skull before saying these measurements to the phrenologist are remarkable.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: His head is scarcely medium size for so big a man.
Speaker 1: Rude, thank you.
Speaker 4: The measurement from caution to caution is fully an inch
Speaker 4: less than it should be in a well proportioned head,
Speaker 4: and in the moral region there is a deficiency of
Speaker 4: one inch. Therefore, in circumspection and in moral regulating power
Speaker 4: there is a marked deficiency, while there is a woeful
Speaker 4: lack of development in those organs which give reflective judgment
Speaker 4: and stability to character.
Speaker 3: This is by measuring a death mask.
Speaker 4: That bumps on his head. That's right, it's science. Excuse man.
Speaker 4: His language would be fair, but it would be remembered
Speaker 4: pompous or passionate. He could take from the rich and
Speaker 4: give to the poor, as long as the latter deferred
Speaker 4: to him as the cleverest man in the country.
Speaker 1: Did he ever give to the poor.
Speaker 4: No, he took from the poor from everyone he was
Speaker 4: the poor. Yeah, Power, praise, freedom and money were equally
Speaker 4: valued by him, and his acts, which had the appearance
Speaker 4: of charity, were dictated by vanity. His smile in death
Speaker 4: was a result of active hope, self esteem, and firmness.
Speaker 4: He was so impressed with a sense of his own
Speaker 4: importance and buoyed up by a false hope, that he
Speaker 4: entertained no fear of future punishment. To sum up in
Speaker 4: a sentence, his brain is abnormally wide at the base,
Speaker 4: tapers narrowly towards his self esteeming crown, and is retreating
Speaker 4: at the upper region of the forehead is remarkably broadened
Speaker 4: deep over the eyebrows, and though it is rounded over
Speaker 4: the coronal surface by large hope and fair venteration, it
Speaker 4: is in the moral region deplorably low.
Speaker 5: Deplorably low is my opinion of Archibald hamilted well.
Speaker 4: Remarkably, Archibald's assessment of Ned Kelly based purely on the
Speaker 4: science of phrenology, and has he said, without any previous
Speaker 4: knowledge of the prisoner, was almost exactly aligned with the
Speaker 4: narrative he had heard from ned solicitor at a public meeting.
Speaker 3: Change, isn't that weird?
Speaker 4: Crazy?
Speaker 3: I hate this guy.
Speaker 4: There's not anybody to like in this story. There really isn't.
Speaker 1: And Shrek apart from.
Speaker 4: Shrek, let's get back to Shrek. My clickboard just betrayed me.
Speaker 1: It's okay.
Speaker 4: Ned. Kelly was buried in an unmarked grave inside Penridge Prison.
Speaker 4: In nineteen twenty nine, renovation works were begun to convert
Speaker 4: the defunct Pentridge Prison into a similar into the Melbourne.
Speaker 1: Ja Correct which it is famous.
Speaker 4: I'm not Champagne next time.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 2: Come on, you know you're having a lot of time.
Speaker 1: It's very weird though that that they still do like
Speaker 1: ghost tours and everything at Penridge.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it is yeah.
Speaker 3: The as well, Yes, isn't it our apartments.
Speaker 1: Cinema into I j and oh look at you roes
Speaker 1: as well Centura.
Speaker 4: There's a there's a there's a section that hasn't been
Speaker 4: that's where they do the ghost tours.
Speaker 1: There's a section that hasn't been done and he's still
Speaker 1: They've got like a wine bar and everything there now.
Speaker 1: But it's like the old facade is quite beautiful. It's
Speaker 1: all the way around. It's still quite nice working building.
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, I actually sis.
Speaker 4: Written the wrong jail here. So was buried in an
Speaker 4: unmarked grave inside Old Melbourne Jae. Oh okay right yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: it makes more sense.
Speaker 3: Right, he was hanged at Pendridge but buried at Old Melbourne.
Speaker 4: He was hanged at both both Yeah, just both. It's
Speaker 4: a it was a It was all at old Melbourne Jail.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: So nine nine, renovation works began to convert the defunct
Speaker 4: prison into the Melbourne Central Police Station. All the graves
Speaker 4: on site had to be exhumed. The contractor, Harry Lee,
Speaker 4: was assured that because the prisoners were always buried with quicklime,
Speaker 4: it was very unlikely there would be any bones remaining.
Speaker 4: But he wasn't right, you did you?
Speaker 3: I was listening job.
Speaker 4: But when he struck the remains of a coffin in
Speaker 4: a grave that was marked e K, he was surprised
Speaker 4: that an almost complete skeleton remained. Wow Onlookers, believing this
Speaker 4: was near Kelly's grave, rush to the site and grabbed
Speaker 4: what they could ew Henry Lee jumped into the grave
Speaker 4: and snatched the skull before anyone else could.
Speaker 1: Sorry, why before what else could?
Speaker 4: If anyone else could?
Speaker 3: Okay, sure, no for the questions.
Speaker 4: Yep, that's why when pleas were made to the public
Speaker 4: to return this even years, everything including the skull, was returned.
Speaker 4: The skull remained in the Australian Institute of Anatomy until
Speaker 4: the nineteen seventies when it was sent back to the
Speaker 4: Old Melbourne Jail to be displayed with Kelly's death mask
Speaker 4: and helmet. Then in nineteen seventy nine, a skull which
Speaker 4: was on display and marked as ned Kelly's, was stolen
Speaker 4: and by some means, came into the possession of Tom
Speaker 4: Baxter need Kelly enthusiasts. He described keeping the skull safe
Speaker 4: in a tuperway container.
Speaker 1: Really, container's bizarre.
Speaker 3: Sorry, we're really not expecting that.
Speaker 4: What in a tuperway container that he hid in a
Speaker 4: hollow log on his property in Western Australia.
Speaker 1: What going on to Western Australia. That's crazy as well.
Speaker 4: Yep yep. So on November eleventh, two thousand and nine,
Speaker 4: which is the anniversary of Kelly's hanging, Tom Baxter decided
Speaker 4: it was time to hand the skull over to the
Speaker 4: Australian government. The way the skull had been stored in
Speaker 4: a tupperware in Polo Loshness meant that DNA was almost
Speaker 4: impossible to draw. The forensic team put out a national
Speaker 4: call for any artifacts which might exist from the exhumation.
Speaker 4: In nineteen twenty nine, local man Chris Ott came forward
Speaker 4: with a photo of his grandfather Act the Exhumation sight
Speaker 4: in nineteen twenty nine, holding Kelly's.
Speaker 3: Skull more like Chris Odd.
Speaker 4: I see what she did then?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Remarkably, he also had a tooth that he believed had
Speaker 4: been taken from the skull.
Speaker 3: People are weird.
Speaker 4: The tooth matched the skull, the tooth still contained DNA
Speaker 4: and this was compared to that of a living Kelly
Speaker 4: relative approved beyond doubt that the skull stolen from the
Speaker 4: old male in jail in the nineteen seventies and returned
Speaker 4: by Tom Baxter was not the skull of Nick Kelly.
Speaker 5: So this man has had a skull in a top
Speaker 5: ware contained one famous one, that's right, And the old
Speaker 5: Melbourne jail had a skull on display that wasn't engraved.
Speaker 4: To say it was Nick Kelly's, that wasn't Nick Kelly.
Speaker 4: To date, Kelly's skull has never been found. However, some
Speaker 4: forensic team suggests the skull was probably swapped by a
Speaker 4: professor when Ned's body was initially examined by Melbourne University
Speaker 4: right after his hanging in eighteen eighty.
Speaker 1: I wonder why would the point of that to keep.
Speaker 4: The skull sure's famous?
Speaker 1: In that yeah, but for it to never be discovered
Speaker 1: even now, Yeah, that's very strange.
Speaker 4: This is a scott Reckons, but I reckon it's probably
Speaker 4: in somebody's medical collection somewhere something and it's not labeled.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wow, So they've just got no idea that that's whose
Speaker 4: skull it was. What they found was this was actually
Speaker 4: the skull of another prisoner who had been examined at
Speaker 4: Melburn University at the same time as Kelly was exactly.
Speaker 4: That's why they think that they were swapped at that time.
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that.
Speaker 5: If I found out that the skull I've got my
Speaker 5: freezer is not my skull, which I think it is, I'll.
Speaker 4: Not on my skull, and that, my friends, is the
Speaker 4: real story of Edward ned Kelly, an irishman born in Australia,
Speaker 4: a man who today would most likely call himself a
Speaker 4: sovereign citizen, a man who robbed only for his own means,
Speaker 4: A man who killed three policemen, took no responsibility for
Speaker 4: it and fled into the Australian bush. To end the
Speaker 4: episode today, I thought I'll oppose the question which I
Speaker 4: asked at the start, if Nellie if Nellie Nelly if
Speaker 4: Nellie for Tata, if Shrek was in this story, if
Speaker 4: Ned Kelly was committing these crimes today, do we think
Speaker 4: that he would be lauded as the folk hero that
Speaker 4: so many people think he is.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not, absolutely not.
Speaker 3: I don't know why he is or ever has been,
Speaker 3: just because the famous mask.
Speaker 4: A lot of that story. I think it's because that
Speaker 4: over time, the story goes from yeah, the mask is
Speaker 4: probably the anchor for people into it, and the story
Speaker 4: goes from you know that story which is all fact too.
Speaker 4: He was a bushranger, he was fighting against the tyranny
Speaker 4: of the Yes, that little bit of information gets left out,
Speaker 4: and then that little bit of information gets left out.
Speaker 4: Gerialdry letter in folklore is him lamenting the way his
Speaker 4: family had been persecuted and trying to justify why he
Speaker 4: did what he did. But it's not actually what the says.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm fascinated by that. Yeah, I think next time
Speaker 1: we should do far Lap, the story of far Lap
Speaker 1: poisoned by Nick Kelly.
Speaker 4: Shrek was he poisoned by?
Speaker 1: Not say that.
Speaker 4: I thought of doing this one because I think we
Speaker 4: were talking about I think we were talking about jack
Speaker 4: On Wilson. Yes, yes, and we talked about what happened
Speaker 4: to her husband and that he avoided the death penalty. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and then I thought, oh, I should I should investigate
Speaker 4: Robert Ronald, right, which I have.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you that story in the future is the
Speaker 1: last man hanged in Australia. Australia.
Speaker 4: And then I thought, oh, Kelly too. It's fascinating because
Speaker 4: there's a whole lot of stuff in it that's not
Speaker 4: in the focal.
Speaker 3: And there are a lot of comparisons to Daisy Freeman
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 5: They're really yeah, it's quite similar. And that's what I
Speaker 5: was saying at the start that while Ned Kelly has
Speaker 5: always kind of been lauded as an Australian hero bush ranger,
Speaker 5: his like the picture of him, you know, with the
Speaker 5: two pistols and in the armor, is being very.
Speaker 3: Much used by.
Speaker 4: Sovereign citizen movement.
Speaker 3: Yes exactly, and so.
Speaker 5: I feel like that is that the thought of Ed
Speaker 5: Kelly is actually changing or turning to be more like, well,
Speaker 5: hang on, no, he was someone who killed police officers
Speaker 5: and it was an outlaw, even though that's always been known.
Speaker 5: I think it's probably he's been being seen less as
Speaker 5: an Australian hero now because that is being used in
Speaker 5: a disgusting movement.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think people have in time like they
Speaker 4: looked at it and gone, oh well, Australians Americans and
Speaker 4: we don't like the law and we don't like you know,
Speaker 4: rules though so not true Australians line up.
Speaker 3: Better than any Yeah, maybe not in the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 5: And I think that's the thing as well, because obviously
Speaker 5: we were colonized and we our country came to be
Speaker 5: for you know, having convicts. I think probably it was
Speaker 5: maybe more seen, probably maybe seen more as you know,
Speaker 5: all the evil British people came over here and the
Speaker 5: whole place was just trying to you know, jail people
Speaker 5: for stealing a loaf of bread and all of this.
Speaker 5: So they were fighting back against that, and there could
Speaker 5: be an argument for that, while you also look at
Speaker 5: the argument that the people were trying to keep the
Speaker 5: peace and.
Speaker 3: Hold the law will be shot by these outlaws.
Speaker 4: And he hated the Irishman that became policemen, and they
Speaker 4: only became policemen because it was a job. Yeah, of
Speaker 4: course they had to have a way to support their families.
Speaker 1: So thank you, Scott, thank you.
Speaker 5: I feel like We've all grown up in Australia learning
Speaker 5: history at school and this is.
Speaker 1: The most about the.
Speaker 4: Absolutely thank you. So then we should finish with good afternoon,
Speaker 4: mister Williams like I'm the teacher.
Speaker 3: Then good afternoon, mister Williams. While Sammy's being an.
Speaker 1: Outlaw by not doing it, continue, I want to hear it.
Speaker 3: We're meant to be doing it to thanks.
Speaker 1: Also telling good afternoon.
Speaker 4: We're saying let's get it clean.
Speaker 1: So okay, two, three, good afternoons.
Speaker 3: Putting a school bell sound
Speaker 1: Here, very nice rear that light up