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Speaker 1: I'm Petrina Jones and this is my new podcast, Rage

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Speaker 1: Against the Menopause. We go into this final installment of

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Speaker 1: series one with a bang and part two of my

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Speaker 1: interview with author Kathy Lett. Like her book Husband Replacement Therapy,

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Speaker 1: Episode eight had plenty of laugh out loud moments, definitely

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Speaker 1: helping us to see the lighter side of menopause, but

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Speaker 1: also offering hope that over the Rainbow Bridge awaits the

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Speaker 1: best time of a woman's life. Enjoy carpe the hell

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Speaker 1: out of DM.

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Speaker 2: So getting back to what's great about postmenopause? Okay, first

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Speaker 2: of all.

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Speaker 3: No period craps. Yeah, no pregnancy scares.

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Speaker 2: You've got all that tampon money to spend, right, and

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Speaker 2: you're no longer sort of being judged constantly by men.

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Speaker 2: Even though I think women come into their sexual prime

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Speaker 2: from fifty onwards.

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Speaker 1: I'm still waiting for that, Kathy. I have to say,

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Speaker 1: I'm still waiting.

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Speaker 2: The other great its secret is HRT. I think HRT

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Speaker 2: is the rocket field that you need.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh, look a lot of women I've spoken to previously

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Speaker 1: that they've got the patches and it's changed their lives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, in evolutionary terms, the menopause is

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Speaker 2: a new phenomenon because once we're all dead at like,

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Speaker 2: you know, twenty five thirty two, right, and so in

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Speaker 2: evolutionary terms, to live this long is a new phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think the most menopause, you know, is

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Speaker 2: why wouldn't you want.

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Speaker 3: To just go back to feeling how you did? So

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Speaker 3: that's all it does. It just brings your hormone levels

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Speaker 3: back to where they were. And the new area of.

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Speaker 2: Medicine and everyone's exploring now is actually hormone treatment for men,

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Speaker 2: because the opposite happens to blokes as they old, their

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Speaker 2: estrogen comes up and their testosterone drops, which is why

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Speaker 2: they suddenly start.

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Speaker 3: Crying in the movies and whatever.

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Speaker 2: And the divorce rates in Australia are really, really are

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Speaker 2: really high. And the two top times most of uses

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Speaker 2: in Australia and initiated by women, and the two peak

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Speaker 2: times is when the last child finishes high school and

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Speaker 2: when the husband retires. Because I think men want different things,

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Speaker 2: like men are like I want to stay at home

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Speaker 2: and nest and women are like I've nested, I've roasted

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Speaker 2: four thousand flocks of lamb, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, billion acres of toast. You know, I want to

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Speaker 3: go up Everest and down the Amazon.

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Speaker 1: Think Ruby in your book exactly the same, exactly, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think men pull up their psychological socks. They

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Speaker 2: are going to find themselves left behind. And we know

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Speaker 2: that marriage suits men much more suits women. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you've been across all this, Patsy, but married

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Speaker 2: men live longer than single men have his heart disease

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Speaker 2: and mental problems, where single women live longer than married

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Speaker 2: women have this heart disease and mental problems. So I

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Speaker 2: think it's young women who are getting PMT post monogamy tensions.

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Speaker 2: So you know, men need to make themselves more attractive

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Speaker 2: to us.

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Speaker 1: Right now, you like this some sort of Buddha that

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Speaker 1: you give me so much hope because I'm still sort

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Speaker 1: of too smack bang in the middle of it, and

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Speaker 1: you think, you know what's on the other side.

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Speaker 3: How old is your daughter thirteen? She's just turned thirteen thirty.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the other difficult thing for women now, is

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Speaker 2: we have our children later.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So just when our.

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Speaker 2: Hormones are leaving, yes, in our fifties, their hormones are

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Speaker 2: kicking yes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, like a hormone sandwich.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and mothers and daughters can have a lot

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Speaker 2: of fights at that time because it's just like a

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Speaker 2: hormonal hurricane. Yes, and also I don't know if your

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Speaker 2: daughter has she hit the terrible teams yet?

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Speaker 1: Oh what do you think?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Oh my god? Okay, yeah, but you know.

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Speaker 1: What we bring our daughters. We don't want them to

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Speaker 1: be weeping violets because I wouldn't want her to be

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Speaker 1: like that. I wanted to have some fire in her cuts.

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Speaker 1: So you know, as long as she does it compassionately.

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Speaker 1: She's a very kind little girl. I shouldn't say little

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Speaker 1: girl here, I am. She's a young woman. She's very kind,

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Speaker 1: and that's what Chris and I hope for her most

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Speaker 1: of all, is just to be kind to people and

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Speaker 1: have empathy and the rest will come. And be yourself,

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Speaker 1: stand up for yourself. Certainly. I've taught her to stand

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Speaker 1: up for yourself because I really didn't. I'm the youngest

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Speaker 1: with three brothers who always stood you know, did the

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Speaker 1: talking for me because they were protecting me, probably over protective,

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Speaker 1: but that didn't arm me very well right through even today.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not good at standing up for myself.

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Speaker 1: So I've really tried to turn make it different, hopefully

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Speaker 1: for her, because it's a bloody tough world it is.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, I mean, I'm going to give talks in schools.

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Speaker 2: I always said to girls, stand on your own Tuesday

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Speaker 2: letters and don't wait to be rescued by some night

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Speaker 2: in shining ARMANI yes, be your own independent, strong self.

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Speaker 2: But getting back to the teenage thing, I mean I

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Speaker 2: was a terrible teen Obviously.

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Speaker 3: I was like a tiller the team because I.

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Speaker 2: Was going through the whole Puy Blues saga. And so

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Speaker 2: when my daughter hit her teens and she became really difficult,

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Speaker 2: I think my mother was just having a good old cackle,

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Speaker 2: you know, the haha, your turn. But I do want

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Speaker 2: to say to any mum's listening that teenage girls get

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Speaker 2: taken hostage by their hormones at like thirteen, but by

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Speaker 2: about eighteen seventeen eighteen, they are coming out the other side.

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Speaker 2: But it can be really tough. But I've got one

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Speaker 2: fabulous survival tip for you. If your daughter ever hits

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Speaker 2: you and kicks you and says I wish you'd just die,

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Speaker 2: you just take a big drag on a cigarette, a

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Speaker 2: big gulp of wine and say I'm doing my best dance.

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Speaker 3: That's my top TiO.

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Speaker 1: How old is your daughter now?

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Speaker 2: Oh, she's great, she's thirty one now, But she was

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Speaker 2: when she was very judgmental.

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Speaker 3: They get very judgmental in their mom's.

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Speaker 2: I think it's because they have to define themselves by

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Speaker 2: breaking away from their mom absolutely, so you know, it's

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Speaker 2: like living with the Taliban.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't allowed to laugh seeing dance where she was good. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I know, And yeah.

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Speaker 2: I remember one day I was going out and I

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Speaker 2: had a short, pink, leopard skinned miniskirt on. I knew

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Speaker 2: she wouldn't approve, so I crept out of the front

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Speaker 2: door and I opened the front door, and she heard me,

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Speaker 2: and she suddenly came running after me and said, what

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Speaker 2: are you wearing?

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Speaker 3: Go back to your room. You're not going out dressed.

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Speaker 2: And I remember I said, surely my legs are okay,

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Speaker 2: I can still wear a short skirt. She said, it's

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Speaker 2: not the legs, Mum. The skirt doesn't go with your face. Oh.

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Speaker 1: Ouch, that that's a burdow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a bird.

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Speaker 2: Low self esteem is her redditary? You get it from

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Speaker 2: your teenage daughters.

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Speaker 1: Well, I put a lipstick on the other day and

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Speaker 1: came out and Ordrey goes, oh, you wearing that lipstick?

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Speaker 1: Are you today?

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Speaker 3: It's a beautiful red?

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Speaker 1: What's wrong with it? Well, you know, Mama thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: your little cow.

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Speaker 3: That was terrible.

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Speaker 2: Your self esteem sings down is limbo low. It sings

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Speaker 2: down lower than Kim Kardashian's bikini.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was doing so well last week. I

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Speaker 1: even put ear rings on. I thought, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I was exhausted enough. I'm going to put a pair

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Speaker 1: of earrings on. That will help brighten my mood. And

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Speaker 1: you know, so I'm all happy and smiley. Look up

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Speaker 1: in the rear vision mirror. I'd put two different bloody

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Speaker 1: earrings on, hadn't I?

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Speaker 3: Oh, my god, I know that that's the brain fog.

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Speaker 3: What I was going to say to women about the

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Speaker 3: sensational second Act.

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Speaker 2: My whole message to women is to go forth and

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Speaker 2: be fabulous, you know, and don't feel any guilt about it,

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Speaker 2: because our whole lives.

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Speaker 3: We never put ourselves first.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, this is first all problems, but we

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Speaker 2: always take the bird chop, yes, never get them.

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Speaker 1: I always say burnt chop syndrome. It's sort of my

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Speaker 1: favorite sayings.

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Speaker 2: Exactly so we've never put ourselves first, but as your

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Speaker 2: kids grow up, and as your daughter, when your daughter

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Speaker 2: actually cuts the psychological umbilical call that's kept her tethered

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Speaker 2: to the kept you tethered to the kitchen by your

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Speaker 2: heart and your apron strings. First of all, we've been

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Speaker 2: so time poor bums. It's something you have time and

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Speaker 2: your freedom. And don't let your guilt gland throb. Women

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Speaker 2: have we feel guilty about everything? You know, should I breastfeed?

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Speaker 2: Should I bottle feed? Should should I send at the

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Speaker 2: right school?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: Or should I Are they getting there enough dose of

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Speaker 2: calcium in their broccoli? Like we're all sagonizing about we're

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Speaker 2: doing the We're being the best mother. But this is

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Speaker 2: so forget all that now. Don't let your guilt gland throb.

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Speaker 2: Just do what you want to do. We have a

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Speaker 2: window between about about you know, when you get through

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Speaker 2: the menopause fifty seven to I don't know seventy seven. Way,

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Speaker 2: just get that bucket list, or the fucket list, as

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Speaker 2: my character called it, and start ticking off those adventures

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Speaker 2: and I call it adventure before dementia. I don't mean

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Speaker 2: to be facetious about but make sure you car pay

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Speaker 2: the hell out of dim carpe dem like there's no tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: because you never know why it's coming, and you deserve

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Speaker 2: to have, you know, this sensational second act and to

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Speaker 2: have fun and frivolity female camaraderie. If your husband or

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Speaker 2: partner male partner won't travel with you, go with your girlfriends,

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Speaker 2: go with your sisters. You know, don't ask permission, and

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Speaker 2: book the bloody thing. You do it because you you

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Speaker 2: have earned it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so. Do bole, be beautiful, be fun, be fabulous.

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Speaker 1: Do ruby, book the cruise, and off you go.

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Speaker 2: That's right in the Book of godse she accidentally books

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Speaker 2: a cougar crew.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I just don't want to do the research on that.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it was. It was such a great serious,

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Speaker 1: laugh out loud moments and it was just burled through

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Speaker 1: it in like two days.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, if I have any gift

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Speaker 2: at all, I think it's writing down the way women

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Speaker 2: talk when there's no men around. But it's also sometimes

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Speaker 2: putting into words what women think.

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Speaker 3: But have it necessarily had the hoodspur to say.

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Speaker 2: Out loud, yeah, And I think I get that strength

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Speaker 2: because I've got three sensational sisters and a wonderful mum.

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Speaker 2: There's been a lot of girl talk always in my

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Speaker 2: home and also a lot of female camaraderie and support.

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Speaker 2: So when you've got three sisters, you've got three brothers

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Speaker 2: and they probably protect you in a different way. But

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Speaker 2: when you've got three sisters, whenever there's any trouble, you know,

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Speaker 2: the wagons circle, no, not not wagons, the flame retardant,

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Speaker 2: you know, super tanks circle in protection. So I think

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Speaker 2: that's what has always given me the confidence to say

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Speaker 2: what I'm put what I'm thinking on paper.

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Speaker 1: And that's very evident right through the book with Emerald

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Speaker 1: and Amber and just that, as you say, the camaraderie

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Speaker 1: like it's there right through the book, and it was

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Speaker 1: really refreshing for me because obviously having been brought up

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Speaker 1: in a house full of stinky boys. That and I

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Speaker 1: love that you refer to Chinese burns because we don't

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Speaker 1: talk about I don't know if anyone here knows what

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Speaker 1: a Chinese burnie's anymore. They were assholes down and do

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Speaker 1: the Chinese burn And the other thing I loved I

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Speaker 1: was saying on air with Christian the other day and

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Speaker 1: he was taking the pe out of me because I

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Speaker 1: called it the linen the linen press, and he goes,

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Speaker 1: what's a linen? Yeah, he goes, you mean he didn't know.

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Speaker 3: What it was.

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Speaker 1: And I said, you know where you keep the sheets

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Speaker 1: and the towels and the pillow cases.

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Speaker 3: He goes, linen press.

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Speaker 1: Are you from downtown abbey or something?

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Speaker 3: Oh that is funny, isn't that funny?

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Speaker 2: I didn't think about that, but it's true. Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: was the best place to hide them, place to hide

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Speaker 2: from three brothers.

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Speaker 3: That's right. No, any other listening who.

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Speaker 2: Don't have sisters, I would just reiterate that we you

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Speaker 2: know there is the sisterhode as well. You know how

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Speaker 2: important it is to be to cherish your female friends.

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Speaker 3: You know that you let your cups, bra cups running

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Speaker 3: over with love. That I'd be very flat without my

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Speaker 3: human wonderbras.

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Speaker 2: So it's you do have a lot of Australian women

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Speaker 2: are lucky in that regard that we have that really

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Speaker 2: deep and loyal and loving sense of sisterhood. For example,

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Speaker 2: two women in Istraet who've slept with the same man

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Speaker 2: are called stick sisters. Oh, I have a sense of

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Speaker 2: camera right, Yeah, Rather than rivalries like you slept with

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Speaker 2: him too, wasn't he terrible?

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Speaker 3: You know? And so really lean.

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Speaker 2: Into the sisterhood as you're going through the menopause and

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Speaker 2: on the other side, because husbands come and go, but

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Speaker 2: you know, your friends last forever. And in the book

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Speaker 2: I've just written now, The Revenge Club, that's about four

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Speaker 2: middle aged women who get back together to take revenge

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Speaker 2: on the men who sabotaged their careers. Because what menopause

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Speaker 2: or women have to understand is that you are going

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Speaker 2: to now find yourselves being sidelined at work and being

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Speaker 2: put out to career pasture for the crime of no.

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Speaker 3: Longer being you know, deemed to be attractive.

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Speaker 2: And you know, part of the problem why women buy

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Speaker 2: into cosmetic surgery, et cetera, is we never see women

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Speaker 2: who look like us on television. Eighty five percent of

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Speaker 2: people on Australian television over fifty men.

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Speaker 3: The women just get disappeared. And when I wanted to

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Speaker 3: when I was writing.

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Speaker 2: The Revenge Club and I talked to my agent about it,

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Speaker 2: my agent was like, yeah, I don't know. So people

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Speaker 2: don't want to read about middle aged women. They're just

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Speaker 2: not that sexy. And a publisher then said, get this.

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Speaker 2: A publisher then said to me, middle aged women are

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Speaker 2: like you know, Mogadishu and Sudan.

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Speaker 3: We know they exist, but nobody wants to go there.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, So just be prepared for what is

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Speaker 3: coming your way.

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Speaker 2: You'll be dismissed at work as a metopausal hot mess,

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Speaker 2: offered redundancies and all of that. And just to get

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Speaker 2: back to the brain fog in menopause, the new medical

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Speaker 2: research that says, yes, there is brain fog, but it

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Speaker 2: reduces a menopausal woman's cognitive abilities to the same level

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Speaker 2: as the average man because normally were Abut isn't that hilarious?

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Speaker 3: I love that you didn't know that that anyone dismissed

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Speaker 3: you and writes you off.

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Speaker 1: Cathie Lette rounds out my debut series of Rage Against

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Speaker 1: the Menopause. I highly recommend her book Husband Replacement Therapy

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Speaker 1: through Penguin Books in Australia or all great bookstores. I

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Speaker 1: want to thank you for downloading my episodes and reaching out.

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Speaker 1: As we build our Rage community of support, women are

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Speaker 1: telling me they feel heard, like Fiona, who says, hey, Pats, sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's really familiar, but hey, I listen to you every morning,

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Speaker 1: so you do kind of feel familiar to me. I'm

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Speaker 1: a longtime listener to the Christian O'Connell show, so have

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Speaker 1: obviously heard and seen all the advertising for Rage Against

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Speaker 1: the Menopause. But I'm not a podcast kind of person. Well,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a podcast kind of person till Saturday. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what prompted me to put your podcast on

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Speaker 1: as I was driving to work. Looking back, I'd say

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Speaker 1: it was a bad menopause weekend and maybe I just

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Speaker 1: needed some sort of validation. By the time I got

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Speaker 1: to work, I was sobbing. For the first time in

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Speaker 1: five years. I didn't feel alone. I didn't feel crazy

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Speaker 1: or misunderstood or old or useless or unwanted. I finally

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Speaker 1: felt heard and seen.

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Speaker 3: I'm now on.

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Speaker 1: Episode four, and every episode has brought out a different

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Speaker 1: reaction from me, usually goosebumps because I feel like you're

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Speaker 1: reading my mind, or tears because, like I said, I

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Speaker 1: finally feel seen. Fiona and everyone else on here right now,

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Speaker 1: I hear you, I see you, and together we can

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Speaker 1: get rid of the stigma surrounding menopause. I'm Petrina, Joe.

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Speaker 1: This app