Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week Airline. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and on this
Speaker 1: podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players
Speaker 1: in television. Each episode you will get a front row
Speaker 1: seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors and
Speaker 1: casting agents, plus the talent we see on our screens.
Speaker 1: TV Reload reloads the shows that you are currently watching
Speaker 1: and gives you a better insight into our television industry
Speaker 1: and our streaming services today. On the podcast, I have
Speaker 1: Mark Fannell, who is an Australian film critic, technology journalist,
Speaker 1: radio presenter, author and television presenter. His new series Stuff
Speaker 1: the British Stole on the ABC, which launches on November one,
Speaker 1: is a fantastic dive into historical artifacts that have stories
Speaker 1: that will surprise and provoke conversation amongst the viewers. Mark
Speaker 1: has a great turn of phrase and he knows how
Speaker 1: to look for the hidden story. For years, I've loved
Speaker 1: him as a film critic and I love his curiosity.
Speaker 1: In every program he puts his name to, I will
Speaker 1: ask him about the show's origins, what he thinks of
Speaker 1: the British after making this series. If he thinks we
Speaker 1: should form a republic, and if he is a Royalist,
Speaker 1: there's plenty to one pack. However, let's get started with
Speaker 1: today's guest. I'd like to welcome Mark Fannell from Stuff
Speaker 1: the British Stole to TV Reload.
Speaker 2: I think part of our fascination with the Royals is
Speaker 2: it's this tenuous connection to something that is the stuff
Speaker 2: of fairytales.
Speaker 1: History is messy.
Speaker 2: There is no such thing as a kind of simple
Speaker 2: and straightforward, clean narrative. The bottom line is neither of
Speaker 2: us would be here were it not for the British Empire.
Speaker 1: This is fun.
Speaker 2: This is like artists a detective novel. The reason this
Speaker 2: show exists to go, what about the people that the
Speaker 2: British royal family exploit it? Official records call it a gift.
Speaker 1: That's our absolute Lord of horseship.
Speaker 2: Is now the time for republic? Is now? Not the
Speaker 2: time republic? I was interested to see that debate happened
Speaker 2: quite fast. This says the story of you and me
Speaker 2: and the Stuff the British Stole. What does it mean
Speaker 2: that the people that were left out for the first
Speaker 2: draft of History.
Speaker 1: Hi Mark, thanks for coming on to the podcast and
Speaker 1: talking about this exciting new series on the ABC Stuff The.
Speaker 2: British Stole Yes, my incredibly spicily titled show. Thank you
Speaker 2: for having me. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love the title, and I didn't think I was
Speaker 1: going to love the show because I wasn't sure how
Speaker 1: invested I was going to be. But for people who
Speaker 1: are listening to this podcast, it is very interesting and
Speaker 1: it kind of draws you in, and the episodes are
Speaker 1: way too short. That's what all I'm going to say is, well.
Speaker 2: I mean I joke that it's it's Indiana Jones and
Speaker 2: revert right, like say Indiana Jones goes around the world
Speaker 2: and says it belongs to a museum and then I
Speaker 2: come along and go does it?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 2: Like does it? It's funny because it started off as
Speaker 2: a podcast, and in fact it's still a podcast. We're
Speaker 2: going to do more episodes. But it was actually a
Speaker 2: joke between me and Jan Fran who people will know
Speaker 2: from the Question Everything. We used to do a show
Speaker 2: together and we were just joking years ago about how
Speaker 2: many am stolen things around museums and she ended up
Speaker 2: getting busy making successful TV shows and I happened to
Speaker 2: be on my way to London from tam Too twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: and I just brought my microphone with me and I
Speaker 2: just started interviewing people, and I realized that there are
Speaker 2: these incredible stories, you know, but hiding in museums. The
Speaker 2: plaques often don't tell you the most of the story.
Speaker 2: But if you pull back the threads on objects that
Speaker 2: sitting these things, you've get incredible stories that reveal not
Speaker 2: just about themselves and own the strange heists and stories
Speaker 2: that involved in getting them in the museums, but it kind
Speaker 2: of reveal stories about us, right, Like you and I
Speaker 2: are talking in Australia. I'm half Indian, half Irish, I
Speaker 2: was raised in Australia. I speak English. The bottom line
Speaker 2: is neither of us would be here were it not
Speaker 2: for the British Empire. Like we just wouldn't be right now.
Speaker 2: You could argue that's a good thing or a bad thing,
Speaker 2: but it's a thing, right, And I think it's about
Speaker 2: those are the objects. They're a doorway, and if you
Speaker 2: pull on the thread of them, you can tell a
Speaker 2: very big story about you and me and how he
Speaker 2: ended up here. That's kind of the goal of it.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to get into a little bit about
Speaker 1: Australians and our fascination with our heritage as we get
Speaker 1: into this, But I just want to start by saying
Speaker 1: I've always been a fan of your work as a presenter.
Speaker 1: I think it originates for me with your passion of
Speaker 1: film and pop culture. I feel like I've been watching
Speaker 1: you on television for a very long time.
Speaker 2: But I don't know whether.
Speaker 1: It's the Indian in you or what it is, but
Speaker 1: you look the same age as when I first started
Speaker 1: watching you.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on. Can you not see
Speaker 2: the close ups of all the gray hairs? That's very
Speaker 2: kind of you. I'm going to take it. I will
Speaker 2: also say that I think this camera that I've got
Speaker 2: at the moment is does some weird AI thing that
Speaker 2: makes my face look a lot younger than it actually is.
Speaker 2: But thank you, the ABC cameras did not do that.
Speaker 2: I mean the millions of dollars we spent on computer
Speaker 2: generating all my wrinkles away, it's clearly Workwhile how you
Speaker 2: justify that to the public, I'll never know, But no,
Speaker 2: that's very kind of you. It's interesting, like I have
Speaker 2: had a weird career, Like my first job in television.
Speaker 2: I was eighteen years old when I started on the
Speaker 2: movie show actually on SBS, and I have no qualifications
Speaker 2: to do any so I've sort of went from being
Speaker 2: a film critic to covering technology, to interviewing celebrities and
Speaker 2: doing kind of documentaries for the feed on SBS and
Speaker 2: now this, And I think part of why, I think,
Speaker 2: part of why it works, if you can say that
Speaker 2: does work, is I'm genuinely curious. Like I'm genuinely curious
Speaker 2: about everything, people, the past, future, and I think as
Speaker 2: long as you can maintain that curiosity and convey that
Speaker 2: to an audience, then I think it's watchable. It would
Speaker 2: be my sort of take on why I'm still employed all.
Speaker 1: But that has to be the thing, though, because you know,
Speaker 1: for me to followed you throughout your career, it has
Speaker 1: been your careosity. And I think that if in radio,
Speaker 1: in podcasting, in television, if you are investigating something, if
Speaker 1: you are curious and you are genuinely interested, I think
Speaker 1: people want to come along with you. Because the fact
Speaker 1: that I've started with movies and I've come with you
Speaker 1: now to the stuff the British stole and I'm still
Speaker 1: loving it means that it has a lot to do
Speaker 1: with you as an investigative journalist.
Speaker 2: I guess it's very kind of you. It's dangerous because
Speaker 2: now knowing that I'm going to go and pitch to
Speaker 2: the ABC, Hey, I want to do a show just
Speaker 2: about tax law or you know, franking credits, just to
Speaker 2: see if I can make it interesting. Very hard over friend,
Speaker 2: but I do like it's challenge.
Speaker 1: Well what made me think sitting down with you today,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm so excited to have this chat and
Speaker 1: I was like, what are the projects? Like? What is
Speaker 1: it about a project like this that attracts you to
Speaker 1: the subject matter?
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because it did. I mean it did
Speaker 2: start as a bit of a as a joke between
Speaker 2: me and Jan and there's no question. And I think
Speaker 2: it was the moment I happened to be in the
Speaker 2: UK the tail end of twenty nineteen and I was
Speaker 2: I remember just standing in a museum looking at something,
Speaker 2: just an object that ends up being the first episode
Speaker 2: of the podcast, and just being like why are you here?
Speaker 2: Like how did you get here? And the thing that
Speaker 2: surprised me most, I must say is that when I
Speaker 2: first made the podcast along for it was a TV show.
Speaker 2: It ended up hitting number one on the Apple Podcast charts,
Speaker 2: which and I remember looking at that just going, maybe
Speaker 2: I'm not the only one who's curious about how we
Speaker 2: got here, because at the end of the day, that's
Speaker 2: what it's about. You know, the objects for a doorway,
Speaker 2: they open up into a bigger world, right, And I
Speaker 2: think you know when we pick objects, right, when we
Speaker 2: pick objects for either the podcast and now the TV show,
Speaker 2: you're not just looking for an object that has twists
Speaker 2: and turns in its history. You're looking for something like
Speaker 2: what does it reveal? What does it tell us about ourselves?
Speaker 2: And all of the objects have actually come from the public, right.
Speaker 2: So we set up an email address at the end
Speaker 2: of the making the first series, and we said to
Speaker 2: people all around the world, and we said to people
Speaker 2: all around the world, if you've ever seen an object
Speaker 2: in a museum and you're curious about how God there,
Speaker 2: just let us know. And that's where it's all come from.
Speaker 2: So it's all come from people emailing us and going, hey,
Speaker 2: there's this thing, and I don't understand how God there,
Speaker 2: I don't know why they have a funnyccent what they do,
Speaker 2: and so I think, you know, writing the wave of
Speaker 2: that curiosity is I think in an important part of
Speaker 2: why I think the show works and why it works
Speaker 2: for me, because I genuinely love piecing together the story
Speaker 2: and the two objects that I think the two episodes
Speaker 2: that have been made available now, so some of those
Speaker 2: objects are quite well known, but they've got all these
Speaker 2: parts of their history that most people don't know. And
Speaker 2: as we progress into the series further, the stories get
Speaker 2: twistier and curlier. And I've been recently advised that the
Speaker 2: word twistier is not a real world but to put
Speaker 2: it into pilance, they get stranger as we go along.
Speaker 2: I think that's part of what I love about it,
Speaker 2: which is like going on the journey. I mean, I
Speaker 2: joke about it being Indiana Jones and reverse, but part
Speaker 2: of me does enjoy sitting there and going, hold on,
Speaker 2: how do these pieces fit together? That's obviously not just
Speaker 2: me doing it. We did with the team, but it's
Speaker 2: like I can hold on, if that guy got it
Speaker 2: from there, how does it end up here? And you
Speaker 2: look for the threads. It's it is a mystery. It
Speaker 2: is unfolding history as a mystery. And that is I
Speaker 2: think why it works.
Speaker 1: It does, It really does work. And I think, overall,
Speaker 1: what did you learn or what did you think you
Speaker 1: walked away with thinking about the British Because for me,
Speaker 1: I've watched two episodes and I'm starting to think that
Speaker 1: they're elitist assholes dollar things like what did you walk
Speaker 1: away thinking?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's interesting like I'm half Indian, half Irish,
Speaker 2: raised in Australia. I wouldn't exist without a British Empire,
Speaker 2: you know, like that's that's the reality of it. And
Speaker 2: I think the history of the British Empire is we're
Speaker 2: talking about an institution that at its peak commanded a
Speaker 2: quarter the world's population and a quarter of the world's
Speaker 2: land roughly. That's huge. It's fundamentally changed the course of history,
Speaker 2: and to say it's all good or all bad is
Speaker 2: probably not super helpful. And I think what is important
Speaker 2: about the show is that focusing on an object in
Speaker 2: one story allows you to illuminate the complicated parts of
Speaker 2: that history, because if you just talk about the British
Speaker 2: Empire being all good or all bad, you usually get
Speaker 2: something wrong. And the other thing that really stands out
Speaker 2: is that history is messy, and it doesn't just have heroes,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't just have villains. It's always, always, always
Speaker 2: more complicated, and I think picking apart one story allows
Speaker 2: you to tell that story. In terms of what I
Speaker 2: learned from it, I think the biggest thing for me
Speaker 2: is that I realized that it had to be bigger
Speaker 2: than just what British people in Britain did. And so
Speaker 2: what you'll see as a series unfold is is we
Speaker 2: look at objects that actually were taken by British subjects
Speaker 2: in places like Australia and in places like Canada and
Speaker 2: all around the world, because the Empire is so much
Speaker 2: bigger than just the British isles, and so you know
Speaker 2: there are objects that you know, I have a moment
Speaker 2: where like is this stuff the British stole or stuff
Speaker 2: the Australian style, And of course at the time those
Speaker 2: events happened, it's both. You know, we're British subjects on
Speaker 2: this land for a very long time, and so it
Speaker 2: was about kind of taking a step back going this
Speaker 2: story is so much bigger than just what a tiny
Speaker 2: island in the north did. It's about it's about how
Speaker 2: the rest of the world was formed. And when you
Speaker 2: start putting together those pieces, you get a really I mean,
Speaker 2: it definitely changed the way I saw Australia. It definitely
Speaker 2: changed the way I saw Australia's history, both its colonial
Speaker 2: history and its indigenous history, because you have to kind
Speaker 2: of take a step back and go, oh, well, this
Speaker 2: is our story too. We you know, it's not just
Speaker 2: heading on the British. It's like it's like going, oh,
Speaker 2: we as a nation have a fairly strong bit of
Speaker 2: culpability here. It's like, oh, okay, oh that's why we
Speaker 2: have that interesting and you know, like it's always tricky.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got institutions and galleries and museums that
Speaker 2: really don't want the show to exist. I can tell
Speaker 2: you that for nothing, and don't make it easy. And
Speaker 2: you'll see some of the the very creative ways we
Speaker 2: navigate that across the series. We've made it part of
Speaker 2: the show. Whether when institutions didn't want to come to
Speaker 2: the party and didn't want to be didn't want to
Speaker 2: talk about what they had in their collections.
Speaker 1: Hasn't this kind of stirred up regardless, you know, like
Speaker 1: we're talking about this, but it's kind of stirs up
Speaker 1: a lot for me, you know, and it made me
Speaker 1: want to ask you about have you wanted Australia to
Speaker 1: become a republic and separate from the Commonwealth. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that Julia Gillard publicly predicted Australia will separate
Speaker 1: from the Royals once the Queen passes. Do you kind
Speaker 1: of think that she is right?
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I mean, we obviously shot the show before
Speaker 2: the Queen passed away, and she has passed away, and
Speaker 2: you know, there was conversations we all had with each
Speaker 2: other about what does this change the way people feel
Speaker 2: about the British Empire? Does it change the way it
Speaker 2: feels about Australia as a constitution, monarchy or republic? And
Speaker 2: I think what's fascinating is the Australian public is smart
Speaker 2: enough to separate its general love and respect for Queen
Speaker 2: Elizabeth I, who was obviously quite well liked and respected,
Speaker 2: and then kind of separate that from like the Empire
Speaker 2: and the Commonwealth and where do we sit within that.
Speaker 2: So I think now that she's past, I think we
Speaker 2: are having a moment where we are starting to have
Speaker 2: a conversation about Okay, well, this is a this is
Speaker 2: an inflection point in our relationship with Britain. Right, This
Speaker 2: allows us a moment to look around at each other
Speaker 2: and go, do we belong in this personally? I mean,
Speaker 2: I would like for us to have a big national
Speaker 2: conversation about it. Now that sounds like I'm avoiding the question.
Speaker 2: I know that, But I think the issue with this
Speaker 2: is and I get that, I do, but I think
Speaker 2: it's important that when we have when we talk about
Speaker 2: us as a nation, we take a step back and go, well, yes,
Speaker 2: One part of that component is our relationship with the
Speaker 2: British Empire. Another component of that is our relationship with
Speaker 2: the original owners of this land who never seeded, who
Speaker 2: you know, just had the British come in and take
Speaker 2: it right. And I think those two conversations need to
Speaker 2: happen in concert, right, And they are happening in concert
Speaker 2: because we're having a beginning of a national debate about
Speaker 2: a voice to Parliament and it's kind of part of that.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can separate the two, right, okay,
Speaker 2: Because how we as a nation, those of us who
Speaker 2: are non indigenous, relate to the people that own this
Speaker 2: land and had it taken from them, and then how
Speaker 2: we relate to this tiny island up in the north
Speaker 2: that you know masterminded this kind of overtaking. Those two
Speaker 2: things are related, and I think there's been a debate
Speaker 2: at the moment about well, we can't talk about a
Speaker 2: republic until we've dealt with a voice department. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I actually think we should be talking about these things
Speaker 2: at the same time. Like I think we should be
Speaker 2: talking about the same time, and I think we should
Speaker 2: be folding them into the same conversation. So I know
Speaker 2: that's not a direct answer. I mean my personal feeling
Speaker 2: on it is I don't understand why in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: two we have a ahead of state in another country.
Speaker 2: I don't understand it, but I would like it as
Speaker 2: to have a more holistic conversation about our relationship with
Speaker 2: the original owners of this land and the people that
Speaker 2: colonized it, because I think they are related conversations.
Speaker 1: I think another question then to ask you, because you
Speaker 1: skirted around that a bit, but are you a royalist?
Speaker 2: I mean except for the two weeks of the year
Speaker 2: when the Crown drops on Netflix? No, not really. Well,
Speaker 2: I think you know and I don't you know. No,
Speaker 2: I get what you're asking, and it's like I don't
Speaker 2: have any ill feeling towards the British Royal family. I don't,
Speaker 2: I really don't, because the whole point of this series
Speaker 2: is to go, right, the way history is told is
Speaker 2: told around them. Right. The crown exists, right, and it exists,
Speaker 2: and it's popular because all this attention and all of
Speaker 2: these documentaries have been made about the British Royal family
Speaker 2: and all those attentions on them. The reason this show
Speaker 2: exist is to go, hold on, what about the people
Speaker 2: that the British Royal family exploits it over centuries? Right,
Speaker 2: That's the point. The point of the show is to
Speaker 2: go you know, put it this way. When we do stories,
Speaker 2: when we do documentaries about the British Empire, usually they
Speaker 2: are these very genteel documentaries that have a superannuated British
Speaker 2: star trapesing around the world going look at this, this
Speaker 2: is where that empire was and there is something important
Speaker 2: and it hits slightly different when you tell the story
Speaker 2: of the empire not from the point of view of
Speaker 2: the colonizers, but from the point of view of the colonized. Right.
Speaker 2: And so while I personally don't have any negative feelings
Speaker 2: about the individuals at the heart of the royal family.
Speaker 2: I genuinely don't. What I am interested in is going
Speaker 2: all right, They've got their story, They've got mountains of
Speaker 2: column inass dedicated to them. Totally fine with it. I
Speaker 2: will be watching The Crown when it launches the new
Speaker 2: season this year, of course I will. But there's a
Speaker 2: part of that story, that big picture that's missing, and
Speaker 2: that's everyone else. That's you and it's me, it's our story.
Speaker 2: In relation to that, I think as you watch the
Speaker 2: series progress, it's like it becomes a lot more about
Speaker 2: So the British did that, But what does it mean
Speaker 2: for the people that were left out of the first
Speaker 2: draft of history? And that's what I'm interested in. The
Speaker 2: people that don't get the Netflix series right, they're the
Speaker 2: ones I'm like, Okay, so this big institution here with
Speaker 2: the chiny Jewels, what's the impact they had on your
Speaker 2: life because you got left out of the first draft.
Speaker 2: That's what's more interesting to me. Does that explain the relationship?
Speaker 2: Does that get Look?
Speaker 1: I think that's great, you know, I think there's a
Speaker 1: couple of things I'd like to say. I'd like to
Speaker 1: say I don't know if The Crown would be as
Speaker 1: successful just because it is about the Royals and the
Speaker 1: subject matter. I think it's a very well made show.
Speaker 1: I think the acting, I think everything about that show
Speaker 1: is right time, right place, you know, and absolutely the
Speaker 1: subject matter is fascinating to people. But I also think
Speaker 1: it gets really quite confusing because we've got a lot
Speaker 1: of people in Australia who love the Royals, but they
Speaker 1: love the Royals in the sense that I love the Royals,
Speaker 1: as in talking about the fascination of what the Royal
Speaker 1: family do. I'm still invested in the sense of I
Speaker 1: thought King Charles should have passed down the title to William.
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think of that.
Speaker 2: I don't think he can. I don't like whether he
Speaker 2: should or not as a sort of a separate issue,
Speaker 2: but I think like legally, he's been raised his whole
Speaker 2: life with this preparation for this duty, and I don't
Speaker 2: think either personally or or like constitutionally, he can, Like
Speaker 2: he could always abdicate. Yes, okay, fair enough, I'll pay that,
Speaker 2: but I don't think the reasons for the last abdication
Speaker 2: were really the circumstances are quite different, and I don't
Speaker 2: think that I think he's been raised his whole life
Speaker 2: to do a job, and I think he's now going, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to.
Speaker 1: Do a job.
Speaker 2: And I don't think it's I don't obviously I don't
Speaker 2: know him, so I'm guessing as much as anybody, But
Speaker 2: I would guess that the sense of duty has been
Speaker 2: imbuded upon him, imbued within him since they got literally
Speaker 2: and I think he's taking it for I think he's
Speaker 2: doing the job that he thinks he was meant to do.
Speaker 2: It's look, it's complicated. I mean, yes, you could argue
Speaker 2: that the British monarchy might be in better shape if
Speaker 2: they did wholly pass it on to a younger, shininger face.
Speaker 2: You could totally.
Speaker 1: Argue that it'd be more appealing, right, you know.
Speaker 2: Totally I mean people. Yeah, But at the same time,
Speaker 2: it's not like William and K. I mean, even if
Speaker 2: you just look at the Buckingham Royal Instagram account, like
Speaker 2: they're going overdrive to kind of like to give person
Speaker 2: to give personality to Charles and Camilla and to fore
Speaker 2: ground William and K. Like there's like they're presenting you
Speaker 2: follow any of those accounts, and because I happen to
Speaker 2: make your show called stuff, the British dole. The algorithm
Speaker 2: has decided to serve me a lot of bridge information,
Speaker 2: uh and content.
Speaker 1: Because you've just been sitting there watching the Royals accounts,
Speaker 1: just like I want to see Camilla with a room
Speaker 1: full of Paddington Bears.
Speaker 2: This is the content that came here for no look,
Speaker 2: I think because of that, I think they are now
Speaker 2: at they now present as a team, and so I
Speaker 2: think you will definitely see lots of visibility for William
Speaker 2: and Kate, would be my guess, because even though they're
Speaker 2: not obviously William is not king and won't be for
Speaker 2: some time, he can be. He's still a prince and
Speaker 2: he can still be and can still be part of
Speaker 2: the public face of this institution that has a really
Speaker 2: complicated relationship with the present, right, Like the idea of
Speaker 2: a hereditary, like just a family inheriting wealth and power.
Speaker 2: It's like it is a concept that doesn't like in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three, when you really
Speaker 2: think about it, it's strange, like when you really think
Speaker 2: about it. But you know, I watch the You know
Speaker 2: my kids. I've got an eight year old and six
Speaker 2: year old, and they've watched every thing I do, and
Speaker 2: they come up here in this office and they watch
Speaker 2: rough cuts of stuff. But then when the Queen died
Speaker 2: together we watched the funeral and I realized, you know,
Speaker 2: watching them, two things happened. One which is my daughter
Speaker 2: in particular, would point out every jewel and she'd go,
Speaker 2: where's that from? Where's that from. I'm like, well, that
Speaker 2: one's from Africa, that's from Da Da Da Da. The
Speaker 2: other thing that happened is I realized that I think
Speaker 2: part of our fascination with the royals, is it, particularly
Speaker 2: in Australia, is it's this tenuous connection to something that
Speaker 2: is the stuff of fairy tales, right kings and queen's
Speaker 2: and it's it's this we have this tiny thread that
Speaker 2: links us to this stuff that sounds like fairy tales.
Speaker 2: And I think some of that's quite intoxicating. I think,
Speaker 2: I think, I think that's an intoxicating thing. Like a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, I met the Queen's least problematic child,
Speaker 2: Prince Edward, and I was at an event and you know,
Speaker 2: I got excerted. I was meeting a royal like anybody
Speaker 2: would do, even one that I didn't quite know existed
Speaker 2: until I was invited and I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2: But they send you a thing and it's like and
Speaker 2: he seems lovely, and they send you a thing of
Speaker 2: like all the royal protocol. I was like, what you
Speaker 2: should call him? And you sa. Then you read it
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, it's it's like I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: feel like I've stepped into the water of the rings
Speaker 2: and I will say that I messed it up. He
Speaker 2: walked towards me at this advance and I cid you not,
Speaker 2: I felt my back leg. I'm gonna stand up. You're
Speaker 2: saying I felt my back leg.
Speaker 1: Just go oh no, you did not, You didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't bow and I felt instinctively, I mean maybe
Speaker 2: so I instinctively curtsyed and he just did. It must
Speaker 2: happen to him all the time. He's like, that's what
Speaker 2: I'm interesting. And you know how you have these outer
Speaker 2: body experiences and you look at yourself going what are
Speaker 2: you doing? I just loved it.
Speaker 1: At that point I imagined you saying I'm Indian Irish
Speaker 1: from Australia.
Speaker 2: Thank you for reading all my people. I know he
Speaker 2: was looking lovely. I'll see myself out bye now, good bye. No, Look,
Speaker 2: you know, I understand the point of that whole yarn
Speaker 2: is I understand why we're fascinated by the Royals. I do.
Speaker 2: I do, and I'm and I'm as interested as anything.
Speaker 2: The point for me is to go that exists, it's
Speaker 2: worthwhile discussing why we're fascinating with it, but then just
Speaker 2: sometimes go okay, well, that story is being told. It's
Speaker 2: being told day and in and out in every tabloid
Speaker 2: and you know, on Netflix and things like that. But
Speaker 2: there's another side to that coin. And that's why I
Speaker 2: do what I do, which is not to not to
Speaker 2: say that the attention on the Royals is not good.
Speaker 2: I think I think it's fine just to go, okay, well,
Speaker 2: there's another side to this. And you kind of saw
Speaker 2: that debate happen when the Queen died, right, it was,
Speaker 2: and it was I was surprised at how fast it happened.
Speaker 2: You know, there was wall to wall coverage on to
Speaker 2: be fair, on the ABC most a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: You could it. It was everywhere, no, and it was
Speaker 2: wall to wall. And I think maybe it's possible that
Speaker 2: we the media writ large overestimated in some cases our
Speaker 2: level of reverence because you could kind of see that
Speaker 2: there was very quickly a debate that formed about hold on,
Speaker 2: you know, very quickly we're like, okay, are we too
Speaker 2: obsessed with this? Is now the time for republic? Is
Speaker 2: now not the time for republic? I was interested to
Speaker 2: see that debate happened quite fast, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I didn't actually purposely didn't say anything on Twitter or
Speaker 2: anything like that. I was like, I'm just gonna watch.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna watch and see how people respond to this,
Speaker 2: because it'll tell you where we're at as a nation.
Speaker 1: I feel like if you just mentioned the British at
Speaker 1: all in Australia, and it has been like this for
Speaker 1: a while immediately, whether you're at a barbecue, whether you've
Speaker 1: run out of things to say to your friend on
Speaker 1: the phone or whatever. You know, we have leaned into
Speaker 1: talking about this now for an extremely long time. And
Speaker 1: I believe that if we did do like a plebiscite
Speaker 1: like we did with same sex marriage, I do think
Speaker 1: that Australia would separate themselves. And I think that that's fine.
Speaker 1: I mean, I genuinely have believed for a long time.
Speaker 1: We've been more interested in the politics and the gossip
Speaker 1: of the royals then what we should have been doing,
Speaker 1: and respecting who we are and where we came from.
Speaker 1: Actually respecting is a really shit word because we invaded Australia.
Speaker 1: So that's it's.
Speaker 2: Complicated, right.
Speaker 1: I'm interested in history. I think that's where I'm coming from. Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying anything that's happened in the past has
Speaker 1: been good or bad. I'm not throwing my hat on that,
Speaker 1: but I am saying that I'm interested in the history,
Speaker 1: and I think that we all should have some respect
Speaker 1: of the history.
Speaker 2: I think so. And look, I think it's hard to
Speaker 2: choose words around this stuff, right, Just leart me do that, yes,
Speaker 2: because and trust me, I make a show called Stuff
Speaker 2: the British Style, and there are I would say, it's
Speaker 2: not a case of either all good or bad. It's
Speaker 2: a case of good and bad. There are profoundly horrific
Speaker 2: things that happened in the name of the British Empire,
Speaker 2: and then there's some things that you know, we're all
Speaker 2: the great beneficiaries of. And those things don't cancel each
Speaker 2: other out, they don't balance each other out, they simply coexist.
Speaker 2: And I think partly why I make the show is
Speaker 2: because I think we're smart enough as a people to
Speaker 2: take in both to go, Okay, good things happened, horrific
Speaker 2: things happened, and we can be honest about it. And
Speaker 2: that is, at the end of the day, what it's about.
Speaker 2: Let's just be honest about our past, like just let's
Speaker 2: just be honest about the good and the bad. And
Speaker 2: I think we're grown up enough as a people to
Speaker 2: do that. And I guess that's my I guess I'll
Speaker 2: wait and see, you know, how, to see how people
Speaker 2: respond to the show.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to happen. I think you cannot
Speaker 1: avoid this conversation. I think in the first episode in
Speaker 1: regard to the jewel that was commandeered or stolen by
Speaker 1: the English, and I want people to watch that episode.
Speaker 1: If they haven't, they can catch up on that on iView.
Speaker 1: But I think it's inherent that people are going to
Speaker 1: ask these sorts of questions. I mean, I just kept
Speaker 1: looking at these jewels and I'm like, if they still
Speaker 1: are around, is Camilla going to be wearing these jewels?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Is Camilla going to be wearing qu.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's it's interesting because we nearly they they
Speaker 2: wanted to put that in the press release. Will Camilla
Speaker 2: were the grount? And I remember looking at it going, uh,
Speaker 2: that his story is going to change fourteen times between
Speaker 2: now and May next year, because it's like she may, like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the consort ground, like she she could,
Speaker 2: but then does she run risking the eye of like
Speaker 2: a billion people in India and Pakistan and Afghanistan, Like
Speaker 2: is that the thing that she's willing to risk? I
Speaker 2: don't know, We'll have to wait and see. And similarly
Speaker 2: with the second episode with the stone that's that Charles
Speaker 2: is you know his mum was crowned on this stone?
Speaker 2: Will that that was taken from Scotland? Will he sit
Speaker 2: on it just like his mom did? Wait and see?
Speaker 1: Can you tell me your favorite episode? I've only watched
Speaker 1: two episodes and I'm really enjoying it. But I want
Speaker 1: to know you're I mean, obviously you've watched.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we've just we're just delivering because the show's
Speaker 2: all done. It's just see animations. The last thing gone straight.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, the Scottish episode is really fun and it's a
Speaker 2: wild heist. The third episode is about something that live
Speaker 2: in Australia that probably shouldn't be here, and it connects
Speaker 2: us to a whole bunch of different nations. A favorite.
Speaker 2: It's really hard because I think every episode is every
Speaker 2: episode is really different. Like that's the other thing. Every
Speaker 2: episode is like different part of the world. It's like,
Speaker 2: you know, Dora the Explorers and another continent. I think
Speaker 2: for me, I'm going to say the third episode because it's.
Speaker 1: Just got me as soon as you said that to me,
Speaker 1: And you know, I guess that's the narcissist in me.
Speaker 1: Or I'm like something in Australia, something that's mine, something
Speaker 1: that I've stolen, you know, I think that there's some
Speaker 1: interest in that.
Speaker 2: I think the third episode is the twistiest tail and
Speaker 2: it's a little it's a full on scavenger hunt around
Speaker 2: the country and around the world, and I think that
Speaker 2: was like that was like and also it's an object
Speaker 2: that the institution that has it were really not helpful.
Speaker 2: They really didn't want the story told. So there's that
Speaker 2: which I guess which people will see.
Speaker 1: When I watched the episode, everyone who joins the podcast
Speaker 1: gets asked this question, what's something from behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: something that we didn't see, that we won't see kind
Speaker 1: of like a behind the scenes secret of the making
Speaker 1: of this series.
Speaker 2: So we flew from I did a bunch of filming
Speaker 2: in Australia, then I flew to Israel and then from
Speaker 2: there I flew to London. They left my bags on
Speaker 2: the tarmac in Israel, and so I arrived in London
Speaker 2: with no clothes and so I had to but I
Speaker 2: had to film at the Tower of London at six
Speaker 2: o'clock the next morning. I arrived on a plane at
Speaker 2: three in the afternoon on a Sunday. So I ran
Speaker 2: to an uber to basically go to Westfield. Westfield watched
Speaker 2: in London and I was like, I need a long coat,
Speaker 2: and then it's a really bad time to wear long cakes.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know, I need to wear one for
Speaker 2: this thing. And so I basically ran all around London
Speaker 2: trying to find basically accruing clothes so I could shoot
Speaker 2: at the Tower of London in the morning. But stuff
Speaker 2: like that happens all the time, and a show like this,
Speaker 2: you're constant, like six countries I think we went to
Speaker 2: in the end, it's like all over like the world,
Speaker 2: like so many things top and change, and I think
Speaker 2: you have to go to make a show like this,
Speaker 2: and I say this now with like the benefit of mindsight.
Speaker 2: I think at the time I was quite stretched out
Speaker 2: of my mind. But you have to just roll with
Speaker 2: it a little bit, like it's an adventure. It's an
Speaker 2: adventure to watch, it's an adventure to make, and you
Speaker 2: have to roll with it. And there's so many times
Speaker 2: where like little things, you know, you get a text
Speaker 2: from the day before going so and so who was
Speaker 2: going to be in the Show's like no, we can't
Speaker 2: do it. Now, I'm like, God, quickly, let's find somebody
Speaker 2: else like it. It's you know, it's it's wild, you know,
Speaker 2: making a show like this is it's it's hard. It's
Speaker 2: not I've made television for twenty years. This is the
Speaker 2: shop made a by file MHM