WEBVTT - New Evidence Support's Reed's Innocence 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:06.360 Good. Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:09.280 guilty verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.840 It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just absolutely. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.040 Really pallous blood on his clothing the day after the 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:15.880 alleged at top. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.320 A shallow mud bank, and it fits Roy River. Basically. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:20.040 I think most of the people are used to me 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.239 are good people. I think a really important question we 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.600 need to ask is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:27.160 are innocent. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.720 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pulled back the 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.239 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.040 our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.400 Amy Maguire and. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.920 I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.320 Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the names 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.640 of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:52.520 some listeners. 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.120 Welcome back to Curtain the podcast. Now today we're going 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.880 to take you again overseas to a case that's close 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:02.960 to both of our hearts. The reason it's so important 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.840 for me is because, as we've said previously on this show, 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.480 it's the case that led me to asking Martin Hodgson 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.640 to investigate Kevin Henry's case. It's the case of Rodney Reid, 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.319 who is an African American man who was on death 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.679 row for the murder of a white woman in Belstrop, Texas, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.880 back in the nineties, and when we first spoke about it, 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.679 there are a lot of troubling similarities with Kevin Henry's case, 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.640 but also a lot of key differences. And one of 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.000 the key differences currently is that Rodney Reid is still 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.720 on death row. Granted he's been given a stay of 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.920 execution and in definite stay of execution, but his family 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.120 and his legal team are still fighting for him to 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.440 be free. We know that Kevin Henry is currently out 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.360 on parole and we're still fighting that exoneration, but that 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.760 to me stands as one of the key differences is 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.400 that you know Rodney Reed. There is still this ongoing 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:59.960 fight for Rodney Reed to be free, to be out 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.840 in his community with his family. But there has been 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.880 some updates in the case now. Martin has been working 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.600 on Rodney's case for over a decade and he's been 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.000 following these proceedings very closely. In fact, he's still involved 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.960 with the legal team Martin, can I first ask you 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.640 about the context behind the recent hearing, what led to 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:24.919 this hearing and what does the hearing mean for Rodney 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.600 Reid and his family in the case. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.079 Yeah, So, over the last two weeks there's been an 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:36.000 evidentiary hearing in Texas and basically after his execution was stayed, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.240 this new evidentiary hearing was required to assess the new 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:47.760 evidence and to get new evidence from forensic experts that 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.000 can shine a light on new forensic methods and things 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.520 like that. There's also new witnesses have come forward and 0:02:55.600 --> 0:03:01.840 basically the judge, once this proceedings are finished, will then 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.079 have some time to think about it and he can 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:08.960 come back and either say Rodney's guilty and to continue 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:13.600 with the execution. He can order a retrial, or he 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.679 could exonerate Rodney and set him free. So the stakes 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.240 really couldn't be any higher. 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.919 What has actually brought us to this point? Briefly, Martin, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.520 I mean, how long has this taken to get a 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:26.840 new hearing for Rodney. 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.480 Well, it's probably over a decade to get to this 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.680 point of being able to present this new evidence to 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:39.840 a court. So as people are probably aware, Stacey Stitz 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:45.080 was found murdered on the side of the road in Texas. 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.240 She was nineteen at the time. Her fiance was the 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:53.800 primary suspect, A police officer named Jimmy Fanell and his 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.760 neighbor and friends in law enforcement investigated the case and 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.160 never got anywhere really with it, and then after about 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.960 six months they turned their attention to Rodney. Now, we've 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.640 always said that there was no evidence linking Rodney to 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:16.599 the crime. In fact, that there was considerable evidence pointing 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:21.000 to Jimmy Fanel, the police officer fiance, and we've always 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.480 just wanted to get this evidence into court and also 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:31.040 to show that the prosecution withheld information at the initial trial, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.560 that the forensic evidence presented was wrong at the initial trial, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.640 and that there was witnesses who were scared or didn't 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.720 come forward at the time because the prosecution either didn't 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.120 let the defense know they even existed or those people 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.800 were threatened. So that's how it's taken over a decade 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.279 to get to this point. And now we feel like 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.760 over the last two weeks we've given it a really 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:59.920 good crack at presenting that new evidence. 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.920 And so what was that new evidence? Can you take 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.000 us through some of the details of what was hurt 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:06.760 in court. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:07.200 Yeah. 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.119 So one of the key points is at what time 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:16.040 Stacy died. We've always argued that she was murdered at 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:21.080 home sometime after dinner by her fiance, Jimmy Fanel, and 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.680 the state has always said that she was killed the 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:29.200 following morning. If she was killed the following morning, they say, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.960 then Rodney could have done it when she was on 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.520 her way to work. We say, Jimmy did it, as 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.640 I say, just after dinner. So to the first witnesses 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.800 at this new evidentiary hearing were doctor Andrew Baker, who 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:49.440 is the Minnesota's chief forensic pathologist, and he testified in 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:54.360 the successful prosecution of the police officer who killed George Floyd, 0:05:55.360 --> 0:06:00.680 and basically he found endless errors in the original forensic 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:07.120 evidence and basically disputed all of that evidence. He also 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.560 pointed out to the fact that Stacey had clearly been 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.599 murdered earlier on in the night, which is what we've 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:19.520 always said. And one important factor too, was that the 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:25.440 prosecution has always claimed that Rodney had raped Stacy, and 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.160 what doctor Baker found was that there was no evidence 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:34.000 whatsoever of a sexual assault. And that's really important because 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:38.520 without that there's again there's nothing linking Rodney. But this 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.680 was something that, as we've spoken about on this podcast, 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:46.520 when they can't get a black man guilty, it's really 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:51.800 easy to throw this accusation of rape up, as happened 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:56.040 to Kevin Henry, and now, as in Kevin's case, same 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.640 with Rodney. The new forensic evidence is that there never 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.080 was a rape. And I think it's a horrific thing 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.440 the police do to the family of the victim, telling 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.240 them that something shocking like that occurred when they know 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:15.160 they didn't know it didn't. The second witness was the 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:20.320 Kentucky medical examiner and forensic pathologist, doctor Gregory Davis. He 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.560 not only agreed with doctor Baker, but brought a letter 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.600 with him to court of fourteen other of the nation's 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:31.720 leading medical examiners. They the head examiners from different states, 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.880 who all agreed that literally the forensic evidence at the 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:40.280 first trial made no sense. It was basically deliberately botched 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.120 to point to Rodney when there was no evidence. And 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.880 so he went through a litany of forensic evidence about 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:53.800 dating the bruises on Stacy's body, looking at issues of 0:07:54.040 --> 0:08:00.440 lividity and rigormortis discoloration of the body, and also the 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.880 way that Stacy might have been murdered. Now we say 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.600 it's never been proven conclusively. The state says she may 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.400 have been that she was strangled by Rodney Reid. We 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.920 say that's not correct. And what doctor Davis said was 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.960 that there is also a possibility that she was drowned 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.040 and that that could have taken place in the bathtub 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:27.280 inside her home with Jimmy Fanell. And as everyone knows 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.080 who's listened to the podcast, their house was never searched 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.400 or examined. And what he showed was that one point 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:38.880 two liters of fluid was in Stacy's left lung. Now 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.760 how that got there is anyone's guess, but again it 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:49.360 points to Jimmy and away from from Rodney. 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.120 It's interesting you brought up Jimmy Fanella, which who was 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.800 Stacey Stite's fiance at the time, and he was a 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:56.480 lot older than her as well, and she was only 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:02.360 nineteen and she tragically lost her life. He actually, for 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.840 the first time was brought to the stand, wasn't he 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:10.160 How was it when he gave evidence or what what 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:11.520 was his testimony like? 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.120 Yeah, it was quite unusual because generally when someone who 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.199 is being pointed at as a new suspect as far 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.960 as the state might be concerned, and the person we've 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:29.120 always believed and known committed the murder, generally they will 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.439 plead the Fifth Amendment and they won't answer questions. And 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.840 we were under the assumption and had been told that's 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.040 what would happen. But in fact, Jimmy answered all the 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:44.319 questions that Rodney's legal team put to him. And there 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.760 was nothing interesting about Jimmy's statements to the court other 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:54.600 than that every other witness who had given evidence at 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:59.480 the hearing was lying. And whenever he was questioned about 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.760 this new forensic evidence, he said that the forensic pathologists 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:08.200 were lying. Questioned about eyewitnesses, he said they were lying. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.600 Other police officers who gave evidence against him at this 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:18.400 new forensic hearing, he said, were lying. Former cellmates of his. Because, 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:23.439 as people will be aware, Jimmy Fanell, ten years after 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.600 Stacy died, was still a serving police officer when he 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.280 kidnapped a woman who he'd pulled over and raped her, 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.360 and he was sentenced to ten years in prison, and 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.400 he's only just been released now. One of the witnesses 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:45.080 was one of his former inmates. And what's quite interesting 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.480 about this witness is that he was a member of 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:53.280 the Aryan Brotherhood, the most well known white supremacist prison gang, 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.640 and Jimmy had sought their protection while he was in prison. 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:04.920 And this witness, Arthur Snow Junior, said was that Jimmy 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.400 confessed to him while he was inside and that he 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:15.600 said that that basically he said that Jimmy had told 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.720 him that and I quote, you wouldn't believe how easily 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.959 a belt would break strangling an N word loving whore. 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.240 That's what Jimmy said to mister Snow Now. The important 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:31.080 thing about that is that Jimmy had been overheard to 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:36.520 say this about using the N word and using those 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.640 sort of names to describe Stacy. But the belt did 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:45.400 break when he strangled Stacy, and that was something that's 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.120 not really that well known unless you've really studied the evidence. 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.760 And this witness, Arthur Snow, was in prison when the 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.199 murder happened, so he had no way of knowing it. 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.800 There was also another former inmate who was friends with 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:05.760 Jimmy inside who said basically the same thing, that not 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.920 only had he killed his fiance, but that Jimmy had 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:11.880 got away with it, and that there was a man 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:16.960 on death row, and he'd said to Michael Bordellen that 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.839 I took care of her and that damn n word 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.120 is doing the time for it. And Bordellan even says 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:30.520 that when he Jimmy told him that he simulated strangulation. 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.360 And one thing that's really important to note, as I say, 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.480 the belt that was used to strangle Stacey did in 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.960 fact break and the other half of that belt was 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:48.959 found next to Jimmy Fanell's car, and that vehicle was 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:53.600 also where Stacy's body was believed to have been in 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.800 just before her body was dumped, and only Jimmy's, Jimmy 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.800 Fanell's DNA and Stacy's d was in that vehicle. So 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.640 you have the murder weapon, Jimmy Fanell's DNA, Stacy's DNA, 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:14.839 and these confessions inside that Jimmy had killed her in 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.720 this way. And then we had a litany of witnesses 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.559 who were at Stacy's funeral who were friends of hers, 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.880 co workers, friends of the family, one being a Lee 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.880 County Deputy, Lee Clampet. And so this is a former 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.480 police officer with no reason to lie, and he says 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:40.360 at the funeral, Jimmy told him that Stacy and I quote, 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.760 she got what she deserved. And this was backed up 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:48.800 by a large number of witnesses, including Richard Scoggins who 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.760 worked with Stacy, and Faranell had said to him that 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.559 and again, this is a horrible thing that he said, 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.800 but again this was at the fun funeral, that she 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.880 deserved it, and that she was a lying, fucking bitch. 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.440 And this is a guy supposedly at the funeral of 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.160 his fiance who's died just before they are supposed to 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.600 get married, and this is what he's saying to everyone, 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.480 from his own friends, fellow police officers, her friends, and 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:27.120 co workers. Yeah, there was just a litany of those witnesses, and. 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.520 Martin, I think you haven't mentioned it on this podcast. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.040 We do. I know you've mentioned it before. But there 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.640 was a reason he was saying those things about Stacy, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.560 and it's a reason that some people have said is 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.400 the reason Rodney is guilty. Is that Rodney was having 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.720 an affair with stacy'starts, which is something he's always said. 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.040 And I know that there were other witnesses, weren't They 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.680 have friends who had confirmed that who previously hadn't been 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:49.120 listened to. 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.080 Yeah, that's right, and they were some of the key 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.920 new witnesses that we say the prosecution withheld from the 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:01.520 defense at the original trial, which is that Rodney admits 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.400 that he and Stacy were having an affair, and a 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:11.080 number of her good friends and co workers confirmed that 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.000 and took the stand to confirm that, and that they, 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.080 you know, they'd seen them together, that Rodney had been 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.480 to her work, that they'd seen her with Rodney at 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:27.240 an ice cream store, and things like that. So there 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:32.320 was all this evidence really that not only was Jimmy 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.720 prior to Rodney ever having the affair with Stacy, he 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:40.880 was already a very jealous, abusive guy, but then once 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.480 and look, you know, there's no doubt he joined the 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.560 Aryan brotherhood in prison, so he's clearly a racist that 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.360 you know, the fact that his fiance was having an 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.240 affair with a black man sent him off the edge. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:01.760 And in this case, one of the most startling new 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:08.040 witnesses was a man named William Sappington, and he his 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:13.400 son and wife attend church with one of the highest 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:18.240 law officers in the area, are Ted Williams. And what 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.120 makes William very interesting is that he was one of 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:27.200 Jimmy Fanell and Stacy Stitz's neighbors, and he approached his 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.360 friend at church, Ted Williams, and told him that he, 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.880 his son and his wife had heard loud arguing between 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:39.200 Jimmy and Stacy, that they'd heard screaming, that they'd heard 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:45.680 things like her being thrown to the ground having their 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:50.120 hair pulled. They said that they'd always observed him to 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:56.000 be very jealous, very controlling, and threatening. Stacy had even 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:00.000 mentioned to them that she didn't think that the wedding 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:07.520 would go ahead. They'd observed what would amount to considerable 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.600 domestic violence by Jimmy Fanell. And these are the next 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.600 door neighbors. And they, as I say, they went to 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.760 church with this wems who was one of the highest 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:23.200 law officers in the area. They taught his children at 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:28.040 Sunday School. They described themselves as very God fearing people. 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.160 And we have no reason to believe they would possibly 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.160 make this up or why. And all three of them 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:41.800 not only testified that they witnessed and overheard this domestic violence, 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.720 that they witnessed and overheard threats towards Stacy from Jimmy Fanel, 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:52.439 but they approached this wems outside of their church and 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.359 were told and I quote, to hush your mouth. So 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.119 they were warned off by the police, and so they 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:05.200 never came forward and when asked, when Miss Sappington was 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.880 asked why she didn't even though she knew Jimmy had 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.840 probably done it, and it seemed clear to her that 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:16.120 Rodney never had. This is a white woman from Texas, 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.480 a church going woman from a good family, said simply 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.639 that she was scared of the police and that it 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.919 simply wasn't worth the risk to her family, but that 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:33.199 they simply couldn't stay quiet any longer. And you know, 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.000 her son then took to the stand and mentioned that 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.920 during the day when Stacy and Jimmy were home on 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.919 one particular occasion, he'd gone to their back door to 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.840 inquire because he'd heard tables and chairs being thrown and 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:53.600 screaming and shouting, and that he'd said to his father 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:58.560 when he came on came home what he'd heard, and 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.320 his father had basically said on the stand that that's 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.960 Jimmy up there yelling at Stacy. It goes on all 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:08.560 the time. So there was this clear evidence of ongoing 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.080 domestic violence by Jimmy Fanel being committed against Stacy. 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.240 It makes me just wonder, Martin, you know what you 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.040 said about, you know, this white church going lady being 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.520 scared of the police. Did it come up in the 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.119 trial at all about why the case wasn't probably investigated 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:32.600 and why Jimmy Fanell wasn't actually charged over this overseas's murder, Because, 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.479 as you've said many times, like the first suspect is 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.679 the husband, the partner, or the fiance. Did it come 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:43.399 up in the hearing about why or why the police 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.399 investigation actually zeroed in on Rodney and why not Jimmy Fanel. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.800 Well, there's a few reasons, I mean, one being that 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.160 Jimmy was a local police officer and it was his 0:19:54.320 --> 0:20:01.240 partner and good friend who were investigating this murder. Now, 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.040 for those who have been listening, they may know what 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:09.360 happened to those officers. For those who haven't, I'll explain. 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.840 So one of those officers' names was Ed Celmeller, and 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:20.360 six months after Stacey died, before Rodney had ever been charged, 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.480 Ed committed suicide. Except there was a problem, and this 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.520 was evidence that we presented in the past few weeks. 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.199 Ed was right handed. Naturally had always been right handed. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.639 All his police documentation showed that that he wrote right handed, 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:44.719 used his firearm right handed. The forensic evidence clearly shows 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.439 he killed himself with his left hand. Now, one of 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.960 the problems with that is Ed cel Meller couldn't hit 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.320 the side of a barn with his left hand because 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.080 he'd sustained an injury while serving as a police officer 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.040 to his left hand. And so his brother has continued 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.119 to give evidence that not only was his brother not suicidal, 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:12.840 that his brother suspected Jimmy Fanel, his colleague, and that 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.840 he did not believe his brother could possibly have killed himself. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.399 Now this wasn't new. This was something we've made available 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.520 to the public. Something that wasn't known is that one 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.719 of the other officers, Gary joe' bryant, was investigating Stacy's 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:35.160 death for the neighboring police department, that was the Giddings 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:39.919 Police Department. Now, what we've always known is that just 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:45.879 like Ed Celmeller, Gary jo'bryant died too before Rodney was 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.320 ever arrested, and he'd told his wife, and his wife 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:55.040 testified that Gary jo'bryant, the Giddings police officer, believed it 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.560 was Jimmy who'd killed Stacy, and he was investigating that. Now, 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:05.520 up until the last few weeks, we'd been told that 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:10.520 Gary joe' bryant had been murdered by a Mexican immigrant 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:15.879 who was in Texas without papers. And for Australians, where 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.480 this murder in Texas took place is very close to 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.399 the Texas border. We're also led to believe that it 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:26.639 was an automatic weapon that was used to kill Gary joe' bryant. 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.760 This is a police officer investigating Jimmy Fanel who believed 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.560 Jimmy was the real killer. Well, what we learned this 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:39.040 week is there probably never was a Mexican because when 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:44.240 we've demanded to have that person, this Mexican citizen, brought 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:48.520 before the court, that's been denied. Now, finally, the state 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.480 of Texas has claimed that that Mexican man was deported 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:57.720 back to Mexico and never charged with the police officer's murder. Now, 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:02.199 this is ridiculous. No one can possibly believe that what 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:06.159 they and I quote an illegal immigrant could kill a 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:09.879 serving police officer and never be charged with murder, that 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.800 they would simply just deport them back, get away with it, 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:16.520 away you go. So that's ridiculous, So we don't believe 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:22.119 that person ever existed. What else we learned this week 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:28.080 was something really shocking that, just like ed Selmeller, Gary 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:31.119 Jo Bryant was killed with his own gun, a forty 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.240 five pistol that was his police service weapon. Now this 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:39.240 had never been disclosed before. So here we have two 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:44.119 police officers investigating Jimmy Fanel. One has told his brother 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.679 he believes Jimmy did it. The others told his wife 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:50.520 that they believe he did it. And within about a 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:55.520 week they're both dead, murdered with their own guns, but 0:23:55.800 --> 0:24:01.680 not killed. They didn't kill themselves quite clearly. Is shocking, 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:03.800 and their families deserve answers too. 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:06.520 And we've talked a lot about this case, and you've 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:09.639 outlined a lot of the evidence before and just knowing 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:14.280 that evidence, but also knowing just hearing what you're saying today, 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.080 all the new witnesses, all the evidence that hadn't previously 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:19.919 come before court, the fact these two police officers who 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:26.560 are investigating Jimmy Finill were found dead, it makes you know, 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:29.920 it's almost unbelievable to think that Rodney Read isn't free. 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.240 What were the prosecution's case or what did they bring 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:33.840 to the hearing. 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:37.840 Yes, so they brought to the hearing a number of 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:44.119 witnesses who were largely police officers and largely friends and 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:49.639 family of Stacy. One of those police officers is a 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:55.080 former detective who was involved in the initial investigation, and 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.840 he was the first person to the scene, and he 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:01.520 made quite a few slip so, I mean, initially he 0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:06.000 claimed that they thoroughly investigated Jimmy and he was first 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:08.240 to the scene and he was able to rule Jimmy 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:12.440 out for a variety of reasons. The problem with his evidence, 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:17.960 and his name is retired police detective David Board, was 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:22.159 that he claims when he found Jimmy's truck in a 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:26.440 school parking lot the following day, he clearly noticed there'd 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.840 been a struggle inside the truck, that one of Stacy's 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:32.359 tennis shoes was still in in the truck, and that 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:36.360 there was broken glass in there. And this was before 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:40.600 he knew that only Jimmy and Stacy's DNA was in there. 0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:43.679 So he was trying to and still claiming that it 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:48.919 was someone else involved in this struggle with Stacy. But 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:52.480 where he really made an error was that he claims 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:56.119 he called Jimmy, and Jimmy was at home and hadn't 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:58.399 been woken during the night. How he knows that is 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:04.720 anyone's guess. That he'd found and Stacy's truck that looked 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:08.080 like there'd been a struggle. They'd found Stacy's body, and 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:10.200 could Jimmy come to the truck and the truck was 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:13.600 about thirty miles from Jimmy's house and Jimmy turned up. 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:17.320 How the hell did Jimmy know where the truck was parked? 0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:24.800 So here was a police prosecutor, prosecution witness who made 0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:29.879 a huge error. He'd never told Jimmy where the truck was. 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:33.960 His note shows that he never did. And this was 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:37.600 something that ed Selmeller, who had arrived at the scene too, 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:43.000 thought was very suspicious, and he'd wrote that in his book, 0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:45.840 in his little police book. But of course he'd be 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:49.679 found dead. Now. When he was really questioned this David 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:54.639 Board about his evidence, he was asked was he a 0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:58.240 member of a Facebook group of witnesses for the prosecution 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:01.880 who were sharing him information together to make sure their 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:06.679 stories were the same, And he said no, Well, we 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:11.119 have accessed that Facebook group and there was a number 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:13.520 of comments that he'd made he was a member of 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:19.480