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Speaker 1: Can you remember the last time you felt hungry? I

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Speaker 1: mean really hungry. Often we find ourselves eating because it's

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Speaker 1: meal time or because someone else is eating, all because

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Speaker 1: we're tired, we're bored, we're stressed. So today on The

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Speaker 1: Nutrition Couch, we talk all things hunger and how to

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Speaker 1: become reunited with your hunger, especially if it's been a

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Speaker 1: while since you've experienced it. Hi, I'm Leanne Ward and

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Speaker 1: I'm Susie Burrow, And as two of us strays leading

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Speaker 1: dietitians who specialize in evidence face musition, we bringnew The

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Speaker 1: Nutrition Couch, a bi weekly chat on everything that is

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Speaker 1: new in the world of food, diets and nutrition, as

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Speaker 1: well as hunger. On today's episode, we discussed breakfast or

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Speaker 1: more specifically, when should we be eating it? And our

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Speaker 1: listener question of the week is I'm eating out and

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Speaker 1: keeping your goals on track. So, Susie, it is holiday

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Speaker 1: time for the twins. What are your plans for this

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Speaker 1: holiday period?

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Speaker 2: I am counting down, Leanne, I cannot wait to get

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Speaker 2: out of here. We are going up to Darwin to

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Speaker 2: get some sun. Literally, I just looked at the furthest

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Speaker 2: place north we could get to with a holiday vibe,

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Speaker 2: and off we're going. The twins will be excited about

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Speaker 2: crocodiles and I'll just be happy to be hopefully in

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Speaker 2: slightly warmer temperatures. We're going to head down to the

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Speaker 2: Gold Coast, because that's what families do, isn't it. Maybe

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Speaker 2: you'll come and have a little visit, do some food

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Speaker 2: snaps in a nice light apartment, which I currently can't

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Speaker 2: do in my rental, glass of wine together, and then

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Speaker 2: we're going to take the kids skiing. Actually, we've got

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Speaker 2: an opportunity friends of ours. I've got a place down

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Speaker 2: at the snow so I'm going to pop them into

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Speaker 2: ski school and see if they like it. So I'm

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Speaker 2: basically taking every opportunity to be away from home for

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Speaker 2: as long as possible because that's that time of year

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Speaker 2: we need a little revive, don't we.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like it's action packed holiday. It's much more

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Speaker 1: exciting than what we're do we I didn't even realize

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Speaker 1: it was school holidays.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, enjoy the time because once me it

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Speaker 2: gets to school in preschool, like you hang out for

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Speaker 2: these holidays because the weeks are so intense with the

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Speaker 2: schedule and the sports activities, and the after school and

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Speaker 2: the packing lunches. I never thought I would look forward

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Speaker 2: to school holidays the way I do. So enjoy these

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Speaker 2: few years where you don't have all those commitments, because

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Speaker 2: very soon in your life will be very, very full,

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Speaker 2: I will.

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Speaker 1: And it does sound like you were making the maximum

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Speaker 1: opportunity of every single day in your holidays. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to see how the boys like ski school and true Now.

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Speaker 1: An interesting piece across our desks this week, Suzy, and

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Speaker 1: it was an article that did catch our attention for

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Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. But it was really on breakfast.

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Speaker 1: And I know that we've talked a little bit about

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Speaker 1: fasting and breakfast and that sort of thing before, but

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a sort of an important time

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Speaker 1: to have another discussion because there are a couple of

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Speaker 1: what we would call big hit you know, scientists and

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Speaker 1: neuroscientists weighing in on this topic. So the article was

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Speaker 1: essentially talking about what the best time to eat breakfast

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Speaker 1: is for weight loss according to experts. And the funny

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Speaker 1: thing I found about when I read this article, Susie,

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Speaker 1: is that there was no dietitian or nutrition is quoted

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Speaker 1: in this article, despite the fact that we're actually talking

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Speaker 1: about breakfast and food. So it was really referencing scientists.

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Speaker 1: A neuroscientist, so essentially the top scientists that they had,

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Speaker 1: who is a professor of genetic epidemiology at King's College

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Speaker 1: in London, suggested the best time to eat breakfast was

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Speaker 1: eleven am, and that was sort of the headline and

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Speaker 1: the first thing that I've read, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting, that's quite you know, that's quite late for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. I know, I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of clients who eat breakfast at six am, seven am,

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Speaker 1: maybe you know, quite a late breakfast at eight or nine,

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Speaker 1: but eleven am seems, you know, it seems pretty late

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Speaker 1: for breakfast. And I thought to myself, oh, I wonder

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Speaker 1: what the evidence of the research is behind that. And

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Speaker 1: it was essentially just his opinion based on the fact

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Speaker 1: that he thought people should be doing a fourteen hour

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Speaker 1: fasting period. So eleven am didn't have much, I guess

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Speaker 1: science to support it. It was essentially just based on

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Speaker 1: this principle that he thought everyone should be fasting for

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Speaker 1: fourteen hours, and the eleven am breakfast came from the

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Speaker 1: fact that most people eat dinner a little bit later

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Speaker 1: and then the second expert weighed in on this article.

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Speaker 1: She was a world renowned brain surgeon and neuroscientist, and

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Speaker 1: she was sort of saying that, actually, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a host of psychological benefits to skipping breakfast every now

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Speaker 1: and then. And she quoted that the brain is a

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Speaker 1: hybrid vehicle, and this concept of intimate and fasting has

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Speaker 1: been proven to have psychologically clarifying effects on the brain

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Speaker 1: and on energy levels. So we do know that there

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Speaker 1: are some benefits for intimate and fasting, But I just

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Speaker 1: don't know if the pros of pushing breakfast out that

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Speaker 1: far for the standard or the average person are going

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Speaker 1: to outweigh the comms of actually doing that. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know if a lot of people actually experience this,

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Speaker 1: you know, brain clarity and you know, more energy levels

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing by actually pushing breakfast out

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Speaker 1: that long. I know it works for some people, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that it's something that we can just

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Speaker 1: blankly say that everybody shouldn't eat breakfast at eleven am.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about the breakfast issue and the

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Speaker 1: timing issue.

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Speaker 2: It really piqued my interest because I thought just any

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Speaker 2: discussion about breakfast is of interest to so many people

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Speaker 2: because we're thinking what time should you have it, do

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Speaker 2: you skip it? What should you have? Should you skip

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Speaker 2: the carbs, should you add the protein? So I thought

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Speaker 2: it lends itself to a really good discussion about breakfast

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Speaker 2: in general.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I think that we do know there's benefits too fasting

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Speaker 2: at certain times, but when people make these blanket statements

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Speaker 2: about every single person, I'm always a bit suss, and

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Speaker 2: I'm certainly a bit suss about it when it's researchers

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Speaker 2: and academics versus clinicians, because there's certain people that fasting

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Speaker 2: can benefit, and there's certain people that over time it

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Speaker 2: can have more negative effects than benefits. So I'm just

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Speaker 2: thinking of one of the clients I saw recently, very fit, healthy,

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Speaker 2: active client of mind, who was regularly fasting through hunger

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Speaker 2: in the morning to reap the anti aging slash proposed

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Speaker 2: metabolic benefits. And what it happened was she just wasn't

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Speaker 2: feeling great. She certainly was constipated because when we delay

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Speaker 2: or eliminate breakfast foods, you tend to have a much

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Speaker 2: lower intake of dietary fiber because whether you're not having

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Speaker 2: breakfast cereal or whole grain breads through that meal, and

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Speaker 2: I believe that for fit active people that can reduce

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Speaker 2: metabolic rate over time. If the body needs to feed,

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Speaker 2: and particularly for those who are training in the morning,

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Speaker 2: not even to fall athletes, but even people who just

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Speaker 2: go to the gym, you know that muscle does need

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Speaker 2: a readily available apply of glucose. And after an overnight fast,

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Speaker 2: you know there's warrants to fuel again. So first of all,

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Speaker 2: I don't like the blanket statement that everyone should do it.

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Speaker 2: I think there's very different circumstances. I think we know

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Speaker 2: from the gut health research that it's roughly about twelve

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Speaker 2: hours without food in the digestive system. There's benefits for

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Speaker 2: the gut microbiome that's well documented, and that's you know,

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Speaker 2: if you finish eating dinner at seven or eight, So

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Speaker 2: you know that's reasonable. That's a twelve hour fast, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think to be pushing it for the sake of

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Speaker 2: theoretical nutrition or potential genetic benefits. I just think if

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Speaker 2: these blanket statements are really not helpful to people on

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Speaker 2: the whole, because what I'm always trying to do with

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Speaker 2: my clients is get them back and we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about hunger in a minute, but get them back

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Speaker 2: in touch with hunger. And to me to tell someone

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Speaker 2: not to eat if they're genuinely hungry in the morning

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Speaker 2: goes against everything we know about metabolic rate and circadian rhythm.

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Speaker 2: So I think that breakfast is really really important in

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Speaker 2: the sense that it breaks the fast, it sets people

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Speaker 2: up for a strong day nutritionally, it's giving them a

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Speaker 2: huge number of key nutrients, including dietary fiber, good quality carbohydrates,

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Speaker 2: protein ideally for fullness, as well as a range of

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Speaker 2: micronutrients things like our big group vitamins, which are crucial

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Speaker 2: for metabolic rage. And so there's far more benefits from

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Speaker 2: a well balanced breakfast than say delaying the first meal

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Speaker 2: of the day by an hour or two for theoretical reason.

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Speaker 2: And my understanding of fasting overall is that there's benefits

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Speaker 2: to having low calorie days or low calorie times, but

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Speaker 2: you don't get a better and better effect from starving

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Speaker 2: yourself NonStop. You know these I hear quite frequently people

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Speaker 2: coming and they've done a twenty one day fast, or

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Speaker 2: they've done it, you know, these extended fast Now, remember

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Speaker 2: the researcher old intermitt and fasting has come from low

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Speaker 2: calorie days, but also even just twenty five percent reductions

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Speaker 2: in calorie intake, there's no extra benefit from continuing these

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Speaker 2: fast for long periods of time. And so I think

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Speaker 2: that there's the danger in that in thinking a little

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Speaker 2: bit good and more is better, because most people that

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Speaker 2: we work with or are talking to are busy, active people.

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Speaker 2: They're working out, they've got families, they've got big energy demands,

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Speaker 2: and they you know, are going to benefit from having

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Speaker 2: a nutritious start to the day. That ticks a lot

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Speaker 2: of nutrient boxes. Because in my experience, land people who

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Speaker 2: don't eat in the morning or even delay it to

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Speaker 2: that late morning hung and you know, avoid hunger and

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Speaker 2: don't eat until lunchtime, they end up overeating throughout the

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Speaker 2: rest of the day. There's a rebound effect and they

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Speaker 2: over consume calories through the afternoon and evening. And that's

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Speaker 2: the exact opposite to what I'm wanting most of my

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Speaker 2: clients to do, which is to keep the evenings light

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Speaker 2: and fuel when their body needs that energy. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: let's not forget how nutritious and how many key nutrients

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Speaker 2: are offered by that breakfast meal. And another headline actually

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Speaker 2: that we will cover in an upcoming episode is the

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Speaker 2: huge increase in the rate of bowel cancer in young people. Now,

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Speaker 2: digestive health is heavily dependent on a high fiber intake.

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Speaker 2: Telling a lot of people or they're hearing of these

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Speaker 2: headlines and they're cutting out their breakfast for this reason alone,

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Speaker 2: and they're getting rid of their whole grain toast and

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Speaker 2: they're getting rid of their whole grain breakfast cereal. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's not a smart choice for digestive health. And bow

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Speaker 2: cancer is our highest rate of cancering young people. So

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Speaker 2: let's not forget how important breakfast can be to introduce

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Speaker 2: the nutrients that we need to keep our guts healthy.

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Speaker 2: So I'm a big fan for the right type of

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Speaker 2: breakfast at a time that you're hungry, rather than in

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Speaker 2: theory trying to fast because you may have metabolic and

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Speaker 2: cellular health benefits.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's really interesting. And I was just

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Speaker 1: having a further read of the article, Susie, and what

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Speaker 1: I find really fascinating is the headline of it was

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Speaker 1: best time to eat breakfast for weight loss according to

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Speaker 1: an expert. And I love that they've called the experts

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Speaker 1: people who have nothing to do with the field of

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Speaker 1: nutrition and dietects for one, and I liked that the

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Speaker 1: article is really talking about the best time to eat

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Speaker 1: breakfast for weight loss. Yet the two experts that they

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Speaker 1: brought on have been talking about fasting and the benefits

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Speaker 1: of that from a sort of a Sailor and a

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Speaker 1: Ganetta experience. Is not Actually the quotes that they've given

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Speaker 1: and the research so that they've given as part of

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Speaker 1: this article actually has nothing to do with weight loss,

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Speaker 1: because what we do know from the research is that

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Speaker 1: intimate and fasting is no better than a calorie control diet.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing magical about intimate and fasting. It's purely the

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Speaker 1: fact that you are skipping a meal, therefore you were

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Speaker 1: eating less calories. And both of the two experts of

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Speaker 1: their quoting, we're really talking about the physiological effects and

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Speaker 1: the clarifying effects on the body and the brain and

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Speaker 1: the extended periods in terms of sailor turnover and renewal.

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Speaker 1: We know that absolutely intimate and fasting does have those effects,

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Speaker 1: but that has nothing to do with weight loss. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I find very interesting about this article. So

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Speaker 1: I think it's more of that kind of clickbait headline.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the fact that the whole article

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Speaker 1: is based on the fact that you should eat breafast

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Speaker 1: at eleven am, I'm calling complete bs on this article, Susie.

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Speaker 1: I think they've just taken the headline completely out of context.

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Speaker 1: And if all people read in that article is eat

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Speaker 1: breakfast at eleven am to lose weight, I think you're

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Speaker 1: going to be doing more people at disservers than actually

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Speaker 1: helping them.

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Speaker 2: The expert commenting is not an expert in weight loss

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Speaker 2: or dealing with people. You know, that's one of the issues.

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Speaker 2: And I think let's also remember that the fasting models

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Speaker 2: that encourage the later consumption of meals are not a

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Speaker 2: lot of what the original fasting research was based on.

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Speaker 2: True fasting is five hundred cow days. It's not delaying

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Speaker 2: the meal and extending the overnight fast. That's the convenient

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Speaker 2: diet theories for you. It's the lowcale days where once

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Speaker 2: or maybe twice a week you basically clear out the calories,

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Speaker 2: so you start the day with a veggie juice and

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Speaker 2: then you have a salad and soup and basically it's

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Speaker 2: that flushing effect that helps to restore a bit of

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Speaker 2: metabolic function and reduce insulin levels and inflammation in the

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Speaker 2: body over time. If you can do it, and it's

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Speaker 2: hard to do, you know, that's psychologically very challenging and

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Speaker 2: hence not appropriate for everyone, particularly those who may have

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Speaker 2: a long history of dieting and restrictive eating. But that

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Speaker 2: is what the evidence is based on. It's not based

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Speaker 2: on the extended overnight fast that's just another convenient diet

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Speaker 2: book that's sold and suit some people who aren't hungry

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Speaker 2: in the morning. Anecdotally, it's my clients who are metabolically

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Speaker 2: in who have I insulin, who over eat at night,

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Speaker 2: and so it's a way sometimes of getting them reunited

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Speaker 2: with their hunger so over time we can bring that

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Speaker 2: first meal forward. But true fasting is as it's described.

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Speaker 2: It's not having food for several hours, it's having very

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Speaker 2: few calories. So I think that's where this is where

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Speaker 2: the diet industry, you know, takes a little bit of

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Speaker 2: research and re models it into something that suits it

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Speaker 2: to sell books, etc. But really, if you want the

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Speaker 2: benefits from fasting, you've got to do locale days. That's

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Speaker 2: what you're going to get the metabolic health.

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Speaker 1: Benefits absolutely, And even on that research, it's people with

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Speaker 1: metabolic diseases that benefit the most from doing that. It's

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Speaker 1: not people like you and I, Susie. It's not the

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Speaker 1: average Joe out there who's training heavily and you know,

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Speaker 1: wanting to build muscle mass. That's not who you know

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Speaker 1: intimate fasting is actually going to help well be beneficial for.

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Speaker 1: It's really our obese population with these metabolic diseases that's

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Speaker 1: who fasting can actually be beneficial for. So I think

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Speaker 1: that this article has taken a lot of that sort

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Speaker 1: of just cherry picked a bit of the research and

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Speaker 1: sort of made it fit. They're on a gender So

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Speaker 1: I definitely don't agree with the best time to eat

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Speaker 1: breakfast the weight losses eleven am. I absolutely call BS

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Speaker 1: on that. I don't think there's any research or science

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Speaker 1: to back that up. And I really do think the

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Speaker 1: most important time to eat breakfast is when you're actually hungry.

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Speaker 1: And I think that leads us really nicely into our

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Speaker 1: next section, doesn't.

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Speaker 2: It, our segment which is on talking about hunger. But

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Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. If somebody said to me, what

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Speaker 2: is the best time to eat breakfast? I would say

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Speaker 2: within an hour or two of waking up when you're hungry, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and if your goal is to gain muscle mass or

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Speaker 2: you're at the gym, quite possibly before you go because

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Speaker 2: you need to feel that muscle and be ready to

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Speaker 2: restore muscle tissue and even gain. So you know, it's

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Speaker 2: a big fat no for me. I don't agree with it.

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Speaker 2: I don't like a mere little eleven o'clock for many reasons,

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Speaker 2: and it's certainly not my best time to eat breakfast.

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Speaker 2: For most of my active clients, I'd say the earlier

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Speaker 2: the better, really, as long as you're not getting up

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Speaker 2: at something crazy at four am. That's a little bit

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Speaker 2: too early. But in general, you know, within an hour

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Speaker 2: or two of waking is a pretty good guide, which

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Speaker 2: is what we learned when we were young, when we

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Speaker 2: had our week pics. So we sat down with our

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Speaker 2: toe so we can get back to basics. Often we

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Speaker 2: overcomplicate it when it should be actually quite simple. But

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Speaker 2: you're absolutely right, Leanne. For our client case study today,

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Speaker 2: we are going to talk about something that I personally

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Speaker 2: spend and have been spending a huge amount of time

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Speaker 2: with my clients talking about is actual hunger. So when

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Speaker 2: as a dietitian. You know what happens in a concert.

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Speaker 2: You'll go in and you'll get to know the client.

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Speaker 2: You'll ask some questions about their lifestyle and their goals,

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Speaker 2: and then we go to what we dietitians will call

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Speaker 2: the diet history. And the diet history is a validated

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Speaker 2: tool that we will question to basically get some insight

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Speaker 2: into regular consumption. And so the clients you say, you know,

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Speaker 2: tell me about a normal day of food from when

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Speaker 2: you first wake up, and the client will say, you know, well,

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Speaker 2: I for breakfast, I have you know, a couple of

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Speaker 2: slices of toast and a coffee. And then as the dietitian,

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Speaker 2: I will go through and ask a lot of questions

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Speaker 2: about that specificity to really get a picture of the

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Speaker 2: nutrient intake the enhance. I need to know what kind

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Speaker 2: of bread, what sort of coffee, how much milk? And

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Speaker 2: we ask a lot of questions to get that real

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Speaker 2: sace best officity, so we can in our mind profile

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Speaker 2: the calorie and macro nutrients that client's taking in it

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Speaker 2: what time now what? I also spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time speaking about as I'm sure you do, and any

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Speaker 2: dietician listening and I'll say to my clients, when you

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Speaker 2: have your breakfast, particularly my clients who are quite rigid

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Speaker 2: in terms of they have breakfast at seven, morning, tea

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Speaker 2: at ten, lunch at one, And I'll say, you know,

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Speaker 2: can I just ask you, when you have that first

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Speaker 2: meal of the day at seven, particularly when it's quite

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Speaker 2: an early start, are you hungry? And I cannot tell

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Speaker 2: you how many clients will really take a second a

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Speaker 2: moment to think about it, and in many cases they're

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Speaker 2: not that hungry, particularly at that first part of the day,

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Speaker 2: but they're in a pattern of routine, a habit, because

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Speaker 2: that's the way life has flowed. You know, they don't

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Speaker 2: have something then, or that's just how they start their day.

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Speaker 2: I know that, for example, as people get a little

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Speaker 2: bit older, my parents are very rigid with their meal times.

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Speaker 2: They will eat breakfast straight away when they get up,

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Speaker 2: regardless of hunger. It wouldn't cross their mind because it's

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Speaker 2: an event, it's a part of the day. But in

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Speaker 2: our context and where a lot of people are interested

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Speaker 2: in improving metabolic function or losing body fash, whether it's

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Speaker 2: from a perspective of being significantly overweight or even just

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Speaker 2: leaning up a few kilos. You know it is relevant

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Speaker 2: because I would argue that a significant proportion of most

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Speaker 2: of our eating is not hunger dependent. It's because it's

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Speaker 2: a meal time. It's because we feel like eating something,

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Speaker 2: except because someone else is eating, or because something tempting

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Speaker 2: is put in front of us. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: worthy of a discussion to really get away from head

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Speaker 2: based hunger, which is where you read a meal plan

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Speaker 2: and say, right, the dietician says, I need to have

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Speaker 2: one hundred grams of protein and two carbs, and then

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Speaker 2: you'll eat it regardless of hunger or not, and get

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Speaker 2: a lot more aware of the importance of being attuned

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Speaker 2: to what our bodies are telling us. So are we

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Speaker 2: hungry and how hungry are Are you hungry for one

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Speaker 2: slice of bread or are you hungry for two? Because

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Speaker 2: that will differ each and every day depending on how

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Speaker 2: active you've been, the time of day, the time of month.

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Speaker 2: For women, you know what you've eaten the night before.

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Speaker 2: All those variables change. So when it comes to diets

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Speaker 2: or meal plans, yes we can develop something rough, but

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Speaker 2: for everyone it will differ every day based on what's

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Speaker 2: happening with their physiology and their metabolic function. So we

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Speaker 2: do have to get away from head based hunger and

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Speaker 2: start to think what is our body telling us with

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Speaker 2: hunger and rather eating at a four or five out

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Speaker 2: of ten of hunger, ideally, you know, we want to

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Speaker 2: be a seven or eight so the food tastes better,

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Speaker 2: it's more satisfying, and then not get to ten of

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Speaker 2: hunger where we binge and shove everything in because we've

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Speaker 2: got low blood glucose and then over eat. And there's

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Speaker 2: an art to that, and it takes time, and for

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Speaker 2: people not overly familiar, it can be a great way

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Speaker 2: to kick start that awareness is to start to rate

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Speaker 2: your hunger just, you know, out of ten, how hungry

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Speaker 2: am I? And could I wait an hour or so

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Speaker 2: and get to a seven or eight till I sort

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Speaker 2: of get a bit of a gurgle in my belly

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Speaker 2: and then I'm actually ready to eat and then eat

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Speaker 2: something that's going to satisfy me for another three to

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Speaker 2: four hours until I'm hungry again for the next meal.

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Speaker 1: And I really like hunger scares, and I always say

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Speaker 1: to clients avoid the danger zone. So I call the

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Speaker 1: danger zone zero one on two and sort of eight,

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Speaker 1: nine and ten where you're either starving like you want

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Speaker 1: to absolutely eat your arm off, or you're so full

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Speaker 1: you're like a stuff turkey on Christmas Day. But we

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Speaker 1: want to avoid the danger zones because when you're absolutely starving,

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Speaker 1: you make poor food choices. The you know, poorer processed

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Speaker 1: foods appeal far more heavily to you. You eat supercific quickly,

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Speaker 1: you end up overeating, and then you end up so

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Speaker 1: so so full that you're like, oh my goodness, I

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Speaker 1: have to undo my jeans now. So we really want

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Speaker 1: to avoid the danger zones in terms of our hunger scale.

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Speaker 1: But we also don't want to just be always eating.

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Speaker 1: When we feel that tiny little bit of hunger, we

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Speaker 1: were like, oh I could eat, I could not eat,

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Speaker 1: I could give it a mess, and then eating anyway.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of my clients Susie certainly

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Speaker 1: graze or constantly pick throughout the day because they're almost

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Speaker 1: fearful of being hungry. But I always say to my

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Speaker 1: clients hunger is just a normal sensation. We should feel hungry.

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Speaker 1: It's not a bad thing. You're not going to die

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Speaker 1: from hunger. I mean literally, as long as you've got water,

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Speaker 1: the body can last weeks without food, Like, we've got

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Speaker 1: enough fat stores on us, the majority of us to

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Speaker 1: last weeks without food. We're not going to die from hunger.

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Speaker 1: Yet we have this really negative association with feeling hungry, like,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I can't feel hungry. It's like the

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Speaker 1: worst thing ever. So I really help my clients get

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Speaker 1: back in tune with their hunger levels. And I like

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Speaker 1: to talk about it in terms of two types of hunger.

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Speaker 1: So I've got the psychological hunger and I've got the

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Speaker 1: physical hunger. And a lot of my clients say like,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm hungry, or they finished dinner and they say, leanne,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm hungry. I think I need a snack,

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Speaker 1: And I say, you literally just had dinner. And I

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Speaker 1: know that I've built that meal for that client. They're

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Speaker 1: eating a recipe from the meal plan that I've built,

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Speaker 1: I know it's enough for them. And when they're coming

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Speaker 1: to me and they're telling me that I'm they're hungry,

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Speaker 1: particularly if I know that they're not very active, they

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Speaker 1: haven't had a large training day, I'll say to them,

433
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: I don't think this is actual hunger. I think this

434
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: is more that psychological hunger. So the psychological hunger is

435
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: kind of like where it comes out of nowhere. It's

436
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 1: like that sudden hunger, and it's a really specific type

437
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,199
Speaker 1: of food that you want, Like you need chocolate, you

438
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 1: need something sweet, and there's a really strong desire and

439
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 1: a strong sense of urgency. That's that psychological hunger versus

440
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 1: a physical hunger. It increases bit by bit, like you go, oh,

441
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 1: I kind of feel a bit hungry, and then our

442
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 1: lady you're like, oh, yeah, I'm really getting hungry. Then

443
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 1: half an hour, lady like, I need to eat right now,

444
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: and then we know that time has passed since your

445
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 1: last eight you know, it might be eleven o'clock and

446
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: you had breakfast around say seven or eight o'clock. And

447
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 1: with physical hunger, any food will do, because you're actually

448
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: physically hungry. You'll have a salad, you'll have a piece

449
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: of toast, you'll have a tuner wrap, you'll have some chocolate.

450
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: Anything will do because your body actually needs food. But

451
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 1: with that psychological hunger, it's often a strong desire for

452
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 1: a particular type of food. Often it's very impulsive. Sometimes

453
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: it comes out of nowhere, like you're not thinking about

454
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 1: that food at all, and then bam, and add for

455
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: Donut King comes on the TV and all you can

456
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 1: think about is donuts now, and you're like, oh my god,

457
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: I need a doughnut right now. That's that psychological hunger

458
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: where your body doesn't physically need it, but your brain

459
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: thinks that you actually want it. And that's the big

460
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 1: difference that I feel like a lot of my clients

461
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 1: struggle with Susie is really differentiating between the two types

462
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: of hunger because they're constantly feeling hungry all day long.

463
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: But just because they're feeling this hunger or they're feeling

464
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 1: like they need to eat, doesn't necessarily mean that their

465
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: body physically needs that food. So I really like your

466
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: idea of using a hunger scale, and I really like

467
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: to say to my clients, right, let's take a step

468
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 1: back and reassess of this is true stomach hunger. Does

469
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: it increase bit by bit? Has some time passed since

470
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 1: you last eight or any type of food do well?

471
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,239
Speaker 1: Could you wait for food? Like, say, for example, you're

472
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,199
Speaker 1: in a restaurant and you order your meal, You're like,

473
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I'm so hungry, and you look at

474
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: the way of walking by with all the meals you're like, oh,

475
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,719
Speaker 1: is that my food? Is that my food? Yeah? But

476
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: you can wait, and you can wait and time has

477
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 1: passed since you last ate, Whereas with that psychological hunger,

478
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: it's like, Oh, I really need to order this, I

479
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: really need to eat this right now. Now, I need

480
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 1: to go to the CRP, but I need to get

481
00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: the chips or get the chocolate out right now and

482
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: that So it's like that sudden, strong, urgent sort of

483
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: desire to have that food versus the physical hunger increases

484
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: bit by bit, and sure, you might want a little

485
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: bit of a soalt foods or it might be a

486
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 1: healthy food that will sort of, you know, satisfy you,

487
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: but any type of food will do because your body

488
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: physically needs that food. So that's what I like to

489
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: sort of teach my clients to distinguish between the two

490
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,959
Speaker 1: types of hunger, because I feel like when we can

491
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: really establish that, that's where we can really be in

492
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: tune with our body and in tune with our true

493
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: hunger and realize when is it a good time to

494
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: eat and when is it time to sort of pause

495
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: and reflect and say, Hey, what's really going on here?

496
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: Did I just have dinner? Do I really need something

497
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: right now? Is this actual physical hunger or could I

498
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: go and do something else, I go wash the dishes,

499
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: or go have a hot shower, or go do something

500
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: else to distress me from my really long, stressful day.

501
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 1: So that's sort of how I like to sort of

502
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: think about hunger and help my clients be more in

503
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: tune with their hunger on a day to day basis.

504
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: And I particularly like the reference to the danger zone

505
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: because of course that's in line with our top Gun

506
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: Revival of the moment. Really answer, that's nice. I'm gonna

507
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: go and see that on Tuesday night. That's all I

508
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: could think about when you said it highly irrelevant to

509
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 2: the podcast. Anyway, back to hunger, So yeah, I think

510
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 2: that it's just a good reminder that eating on autoqure

511
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 2: according to your you know what a sheet or a

512
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: brain or a diet tells you. You know, it always

513
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 2: comes down to, you know, being satisfied after a meal.

514
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 2: If you're still genuinely hungry, you probably do need a

515
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: little bit more volume, and in the morning maybe you

516
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: do need to wait a little bit of time or

517
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: really question, are you having two slices of toast because

518
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: you think it's the right amount, or are you actually

519
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 2: okay with one? Are you gonna be okay if it's

520
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 2: eight or nine o'clock and you're gonna have lunch at

521
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 2: twelve or one. So certainly on a day to day basis,

522
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 2: and this is something I probably need to get better

523
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: at helping my clients learn to do. Actually, on reflection,

524
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: I will adjust my portions based on what I'm doing

525
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 2: that day. So for example, if I'm going to a

526
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 2: lunch where it will be a big meal, I won't

527
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: need as much breakfast, so naturally I will adjust, Or

528
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 2: if I'm going out to dinner, I'll have a lighter day.

529
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: And that's starting to trust in your body that it's

530
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 2: okay to feel hungry. And as I said, as you

531
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,239
Speaker 2: get older and your capacity for calories reduces and your

532
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 2: stomach size, you don't need as much food. The food

533
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: and the meals will taste so much better when you're

534
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: genuinely hungry for them, whereas when you're eating on that

535
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: autoqueue you sort of never get that maximum pleasure either.

536
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: So that's something to really test, and you know, if

537
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: you're not sure you know how much do you need,

538
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: or if you haven't felt hungry for a while, practice

539
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: rating it, you know, on a scale and seat of

540
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 2: wait you get to that seven to eight and then

541
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 2: you know, eat something that's going to fill you for

542
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 2: three or four hours and have a little bit of

543
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: a play with it. But it's quite empowering when you

544
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 2: can start to align the meal size and volume and

545
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: are just rather than as I said, eating according to

546
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 2: what your head's telling you, or in the case of

547
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 2: our clients, what a piece of paper may be maybe

548
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 2: directing your suggesting that you eat.

549
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: Absolutely and I'll just make a little quick note for

550
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: my breastfeeding mums at home, because I absolutely felt this

551
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: as well, that it's okay to eat more food and

552
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: be hungrier some days as well. Particularly I know that

553
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 1: when you've got a new I remember just those first

554
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: few weeks, Susie, that insatiable hunger, like waking up at

555
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: three am and being like, oh my god, I need

556
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 1: to eat something. Or if I was going out for

557
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: breakfast on Sunday, typically I wouldn't eat anything, even if

558
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: it was a brunch at like nine ten eleven o'clock,

559
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: because I know that I would have a larger meal

560
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: out a bunch and I was quite happy to sort

561
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: of fast until you know, I'd have a larger meal out.

562
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: But then often when I was initially breastfeeding, I'm sort

563
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: of okay. Now heading towards nearly six months in, I

564
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: can regulate my hunger a little bit better. But in

565
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: those initial three weeks, a few weeks, I would wake

566
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: up and I'd say to David, look, we've been up

567
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: since five or six am, Let's go have an early

568
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: breakfast at a cafe. At seven or age, I would

569
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: actually have breakfast, then go and have another breakfast at

570
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: a cafe. So I actually think it's okay to learn

571
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: to listen and trust your bodies and to eat more

572
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: occasionally and or if the circumstances or the time in

573
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: your life calls for it, and then a same deal

574
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: again to eat less occasionally as well. I feel like

575
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: on the podcast we were always just constantly talking about

576
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: weight loss, but I think it is important to recognize

577
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: that there are periods of a life where we need

578
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: to eat more or we do need to gain weights,

579
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: such as in pregnancy, or if we're going through terrible

580
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: disease that's just cancer treatment. We do need to honor

581
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: our hunger and eat more and you know, really nourish

582
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: and fuel our bodies a little bit better. So I

583
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: just wanted to sort of add that in whilst we're

584
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: talking about hunger. Sometimes our bodies need more, sometimes our

585
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: bodies need less. But if we're not tuning in and

586
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: listening and being on track with that, if we're always

587
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: eating to a meal plant or eating this because this

588
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,239
Speaker 1: is the way we've always eaten, I really think we

589
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: sort of lose track of our bodies that way, and

590
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: we really do struggle with our hunger and we're not

591
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: tuning it and just giving it some a little bit

592
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: more sundays and a little bit less other days.

593
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: True, you've just reminded me that when I had the

594
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: twins and had brought them home from the hospital and

595
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: started feeding them, I ate the whole of my baby

596
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: shower cake. So I'd had a baby shower cake like

597
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: a mudcake that I'd put away and thought I'll keep

598
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: it when people come over to visit the babies, and

599
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 2: I ate the whole thing myself, Like at night when

600
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: I was up breastfeeding, I was so hungry.

601
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: That's a fair, That's so funny. Oh, I can. I

602
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: can absolutely relate, and for any of our new mums

603
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: out there, it's your first time and you're in those

604
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: initial few weeks and you're feeding your bub it gets easier.

605
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: Don't worry that kind of I could eat my arm

606
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: off type of hunger. Well for me and myself personally,

607
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: it only lasted a couple of weeks anyway, sort of.

608
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: By week six, seven eight, it was much more, you know,

609
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: on track. Yes, I'm definitely eating more than I than

610
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: I previously did, but it's not that like, oh my god,

611
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: I could never ever get enough food in like, how

612
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: could I possibly eat enough? It does absolutely get better, true,

613
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: all right, Susie. And that leads us into the final

614
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: segment of the show. A listener question this week was

615
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: I think something that's going to help out a lot

616
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: of our listeners, particularly those who like to socialize quite

617
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: a lot. The question was, Susie and Leanne, can I

618
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: eat out three or four times a week and still

619
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: stay on track with my weight loss goals? And I

620
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: think this is a really important one because a lot

621
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: of us are quite sociable, particularly if we're I've got

622
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: clients Susie who was single, They're going out, they're meeting

623
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, potential dates, they're having you know, lunch, on

624
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: a Saturday, dinner on a Sunday, or particularly if you're

625
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: in that initial stage of a relationship. I think a

626
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: really fun thing to do. David and I absolutely do this.

627
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: We were always at eating. We started our relationship, it

628
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: was around June July, whereas in Brisbane that's where a

629
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: lot of the food festivals happened. So we went to

630
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: like the South Bang Food Festival, than the Manly Food Festival,

631
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: than the Food Festival in Soomba. I remember, I think

632
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: we went to a course of about five or six weeks,

633
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: about five or six different food festivals over the weekend,

634
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: and I remember trying on a pair of my jeans

635
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: and thinking, oh man, these feel a little bit tight.

636
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: And I said to David, I think we need to

637
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: saw ab out food festival date weekends for like hiking weekends.

638
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: No under you married him. He was into food as

639
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: much as you were, and no wonder he was perfect.

640
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: Food and fitness, definitely food and fitness. So I think

641
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: it's a really important question. Can we eat out quite frequently?

642
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: I would say three four times a week is pretty

643
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: frequent and actually still lose weight. And I think the

644
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: answer is yes. But I think we need to be

645
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: very conscious of the choices that we have, because I

646
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: don't think eating out three or four times a week

647
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: and having what I would call more of those soul

648
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: food options and wanting to quote unquote cheat you know,

649
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: treat yourself or cheat yourself every time we eat out

650
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: is going to work in terms of weight loss, because

651
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: restaurants and cafes have more energy dense meals. You know,

652
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: they add extra fat, they add extra oils, they add

653
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,479
Speaker 1: extra sauces, cheeses. You know, they need to make their

654
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: food taste good, and so they add extra fat and

655
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: calories into that to make you keep coming back to

656
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: the restaurant because it was delicious. They're not going to

657
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: serve your bland tuna salad with no dressing on because

658
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: you're never going to come back. And so cafes and

659
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: restaurants will absolutely add more calories. So that's something that

660
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: you need to be conscious of, and even just choosing

661
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: restaurants and cafes that have the options of you know,

662
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: adding extra vegetables or salads to your meals. Like if

663
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: you're eating out three four times a week, you go

664
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: into Italian, you're going to Mexican, You're having entrees you're

665
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: having desserts, you're having wines. It's going to add up,

666
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: particularly if you're doing big things like big brunches, where

667
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: you're having even like a quote unquote healthier option, like

668
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: a vegetarian big breakfast, for example, you've got eggs and

669
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: avocado and halloomi, and you know, mushrooms and soado. Although

670
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: all of those are healthy ingredients by themselves, when you

671
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: put them all on a big breakfast plate, despite being

672
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: a vegetarian or a vegan option, it can still really

673
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: pack a punch when it comes to calories and energy density.

674
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: So I think it's just being very conscious of Okay,

675
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: if we're eating out multiple times a week, we have

676
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: to be conscious of the choices that we're making, perhaps

677
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: adjusting within our week for that as well. Like if

678
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: you're having three or four meals out, I would be

679
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: very much saying keep the soul foods quite light throughout

680
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: the week. Like I myself like to have chocolate a

681
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: couple of times a week, a glass of wine on

682
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: a Friday or Saturday, maybe an ice cream once a week.

683
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: If I was to eat out three or four times

684
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: a week, I would pretty much pull all of those

685
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: things back to a really bare minimum in order to

686
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 1: account for all of those extra things. I myself at

687
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: the moment with a bub like I think David and

688
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: I might eat out once a week, so we do

689
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: tend to have a bit more soul foods at home.

690
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: David likes to have a beer when he edits the

691
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: podcast on Sunday. I'll join him with a glass of

692
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: wine when I finish. My client calls on a Friday night,

693
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: and that's sort of something that we have is a

694
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: bit of a treat because we don't eat out as

695
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: much as what we previously did before a baby. So

696
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: I do think it is possible in terms of losing

697
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: weight and eating out multiple times a week, but I

698
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: think we have to be very conscious with the choices

699
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: that we're making, and very conscious with the fact that

700
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: if we're having snacks and soul foods throughout the week,

701
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: keeping them as light as possible, because we are going

702
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: to pick up a lot more calories in those extra

703
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: meals that we're having out. How do you sort of

704
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: feel about that, eating up multiple times a week and

705
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: losing weight, SUSI.

706
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: It's challenging because if you keep in mind as a

707
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: reference the meals we have when we're eating out, are

708
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: usually double the calories and that's just one course, let

709
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: alone a few I've got a few little strategies to

710
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: do it because I do have clients like this. You know,

711
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: people who are working in the city, bankers, lawyers, they

712
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: do a lot of meetings, you know, it's a big

713
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: part of their workday. So usually I would say, if

714
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: you're having a largish meal, you probably don't need to

715
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: eat three or four times that day. You mainly need

716
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: to eat twice max. Three times. You might have breakfast,

717
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: a lunch out, and then you probably don't need dinner

718
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 2: or vice versa. You know, if you've had if you're

719
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: going out for dinner, you don't need enough and in snacks,

720
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 2: so you can certainly a just meal number. Or if

721
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: you've had a big breakfast at a cafe that's been

722
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: you know, with a lot of those additions toast plus eggs,

723
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: plus saloumi, plus you know, all the bits and pieces,

724
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: plus a couple of coffees, you certainly probably don't need

725
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 2: lunch or much till the afternoon. So that lends itself

726
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: to getting back to when you're hungry again after a

727
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: larger meal. There's a little bit of an art to it,

728
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: you know, for example, if it's a more of a

729
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: coarse style, you know, seeking out things that are low

730
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: calorie like the salad or the seafood option as the entree,

731
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: or sharing something, you know, looking for the leaner options

732
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: like the white fish, or ordering an entree size of

733
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: a heavier carve dish like a pasta. Always load up

734
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: on the veggies where you can taste the dessert. Don't

735
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: eat it because that's basically a whole nother meal in calorie,

736
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: So have a mouthful or two, or go for your

737
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: afagato or your biscotti with a coffee. I think that's

738
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: the thing really to it, because you know it's it's

739
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: challenging just given the heavy load, but it's not impossible.

740
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: I think that if you keep in mind heavier options

741
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: like things like pizza and pasta or once or twice

742
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 2: a week versus really seeking out the light options or

743
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: lighter cuisines, it's absolutely doable. And then factoring in little

744
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: extra tricks, you know, like doing some extra activity off

745
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: the back of a restaurant meal and walking part of

746
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: the way home or to the train or to the

747
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: bus to get rid of some of that sort of load.

748
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, we certainly there is an art to it.

749
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: And as I said, probably the key thing is cutting

750
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: the meal number down when you are eating. And that's

751
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: a good example and of a time where may have

752
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: been out for a big ish meal. You know that's

753
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: had some drinks with it and a couple of courses

754
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: and heavier foods. If you don't wake up hungry, don't

755
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: worry about not eating breakfast that next day. You know,

756
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: that's a day where you may not need to eat

757
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: until lunchtime. And that's where it's the art of balance.

758
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: So certainly doable can be a bit tricky, but you know,

759
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: to be honest, I think we probably eat out three

760
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: or four times a week if I'm honest, because I

761
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: would have two nights where I've got a babysitter and

762
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: then there'd be at least two other social occasions and

763
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: I keep my weight really stable, So you know that

764
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 2: there's an art. You know, I've been out to lunch

765
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: today and yeah, I won't really have much dinner. So this,

766
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: you know, that balance effect goes a long way and

767
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: keeping it controlled, but you do have to be relatively

768
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: strict with your choices, and another little trick actually, like

769
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: today the lunch that I had, I didn't really like

770
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 2: the dessert. I just had a mouthful and left it.

771
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people aren't always comfortable with leaving food,

772
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: but over time, if you can get more comfortable without

773
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: and tasting things and really only sort of eating it

774
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: if it's really tasting good. Not all easy, but a

775
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: good way to kick calories controlled and not waste calories

776
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 2: on foods you perhaps aren't that flustered on as I

777
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 2: wasn't when the dessert came today.

778
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: So I really liked that idea sus of actually tasting

779
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: the food. Because I had a really good client example

780
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: where she works at a very you know, top notch job,

781
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: and she's very much wined and dined by a lot

782
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: of clients, and she quite often will have a five

783
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: course deigus station, a nine course deigas station. It's often

784
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: paired with beautiful wines. And these are lunches, like client lunches,

785
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: And I said, God, you're having two three glasses of

786
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: wine and a lunch and you're supposed to go back

787
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: to work. How do you function? So we very much

788
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: talk about the tasting form of that for her because

789
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: especially as she doesn't actually pay for that food. She

790
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like. I mean, I'm not a fan of

791
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: wasting food. I don't encourage people to waste food. But

792
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: when you're getting wined and dined by clients multiple times

793
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: a week and then there's an absorberant amount of food,

794
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: we really talk about her really just tasting each dish

795
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: versus eating each dish, particularly when it's degas stations of five, six, seven, eight,

796
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: nine course meals, like she had a nine course meal

797
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: dinner paired with champagne one time, and I just think

798
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: it's a huge load of excess calories. So really sort

799
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: of that concept of tasting the food, particularly if it's

800
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: a large volume of food and it's very very frequent

801
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: as well, if you're getting wined and dined by clients,

802
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: or if clients are insisting that you have a drink

803
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: with your lunch and insisting that you have a drink

804
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: with your dinner, really just taking a couple of SIPs

805
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: and leaving the glass of wine or beer or whatever

806
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: it might be on the table, I think is a

807
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: really helpful way to stay on track as well. So

808
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: I really like that idea of tasting not necessarily eating

809
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: or drinking everything so Suzi. That brings us to the

810
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: end of the nutrition catch for another Sunday. If you

811
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: guys haven't done so already, don't forget to subscribe to

812
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: the podcast. You will have us delivered into your inbox

813
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: every Sunday and every Wednesday morning. We also have our

814
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: socials running. We're at the Nutrition Couch podcast on Instagram

815
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: and Facebook, and we will see you guys, same time,

816
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: same place next week. Thank you for listening.

817
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: See you next Sunday.