1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Well, as we know. In August last year, an expert 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,039 Speaker 1: panel recommended that the Northern Territory should legislate for voluntary 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: assisted dying. As we discussed on the show yesterday, the 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Territory was the first jurisdiction in the world to legislate 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: it almost thirty years ago, but now we're the only 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: jurisdiction in Australia where it is still not legal. Yesterday 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: in Parliament, the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis, was 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: set to move a motion calling on the Northern Territory 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: government to implement the twenty two recommendations of the independent 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: Expert Advisory Panel on voluntary assisted dying. But what we 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: now know is the Attorney General says that she's now 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: written to doctor Tansil Raman, who's the Member for fong 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: Lim in his capacity as the chair of the Legal 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: and Constitutional Affairs Committee, requesting that the LCAC undertaken inquiry 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: into the voluntary assisted dying in the Northern Territory final 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: Report for twenty twenty four. Now, the Member four Johnstone, 17 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: Justine Davis, joins me on the show. Good morning to you. 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: Justine, Hey Katie, how are you going? 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: Really good? Good to have you on the show. Now, 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: you were set to move this motion on voluntary assisted 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: dying yesterday, but what happened. 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was set to move it, and then at 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 2: a very late late point in the piece, the Attorney General, 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: as you said, put out a media release saying that 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: she would be referring it to that committee in order 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: to progress it, which I actually think is great news. 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: I'm really happy that's happened. I welcome it for people. 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: So many people, as you know, I know you've talked 29 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 2: about this a lot, many people took on your show 30 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: to share from code and many other people have been 31 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: such strong advocates for this, fighting for a very very 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: long time. The motion that I'd put up was certainly 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: stronger than the what the corp what's now been passed 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: before the House. It was a commitment to implementing VAD 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory. So we're not quite there yet, 36 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: but we're certainly a step closer, and so I welcome that. 37 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 2: I think that I know there are people who've contacted 38 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: me who are concerned that we don't need more consultation. 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: We've been through a very robust process. We don't need 40 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: to slow it down. I'm of the view that if 41 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: people still hold really significant concerns, it's good to listen 42 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: to those views and then develop the law and make 43 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: sure that they're taking into accounts so we can bring 44 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: the whole Northern Territory with us. We know that eighty 45 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: five percent of people support it, let's listen to the 46 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: other fifteen percent as well and make sure that they 47 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: feel heard and then they can come on board with 48 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: the bill. 49 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, Justine, we definitely had people contact us yesterday saying 50 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: Katie Moore consultation, why is that required when we actually 51 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: had a full report last year. But then we also 52 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: received a media statement from Nicholas Leigh, the NT, director 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: of the Australian Christian Lobby Group, issuing a statement saying 54 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: we oppose any attempt to legalize assisted suicide they've called 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: it in the Northern Territory, though we welcome another opportunity 56 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: to consult on the matter, as the consultation done in 57 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, he says was a sham. He said 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, the government appointed an expert advisory 59 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: panel to guide its approach to implementing assisted suicide. However, 60 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: the Australian Christian Lobby Group labeled the process a sham 61 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: after community voices opposing assisted suicide were explicitly excluded from consideration. Justine, 62 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: what do you make of that claim? 63 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: Well, I mean Nicholas Slays welcome to have his view, 64 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: and that's why we live in a democracy. That's why 65 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: you know we are, you know why. I think there 66 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: will be room for voices to be heard. But it's 67 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: one view that's certainly not what in terms of his 68 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: assessment of what happened around the previous consultation process that 69 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: I wasn't involved in that, but that's certainly not what 70 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: I've heard from many many people that I've spoken to 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: in relation to it, including people I have people in 72 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: my community who have serious concerns about this legislation, but 73 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: they say they also see that as a robust process, 74 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: So I think, and I think in terms of the 75 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: statement from the Australian Christian League, one of the things 76 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: that I'm really pleased about in this motion is it 77 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: actually does commit some action. So it says that that 78 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: committee needs to come back with instructions of how to 79 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: draft legislation by September this year, so we now have 80 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: a time frame earlier we heard and I think you 81 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: and I have discussed this before. Last year we heard 82 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: the Chief Minutes of saying this is not a priority 83 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: for us. Now there is a clear commitment in place 84 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: to that the government will be looking at how this 85 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: can happen. 86 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: Well, look, the big thing for me, I mean, at 87 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: the end of the day, this is voluntary. Like the 88 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: first word in this whole statement is voluntary. And I've 89 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: said this on air before. You know, my dad went 90 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: through palliative care and died after a battle with cancer. 91 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: He was raised very much a Catholic and he would 92 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: not have gone down this path, but it was his choice. 93 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: And I think that that's the really important thing, is 94 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: that everybody should have a choice whether you choose to 95 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: go down that path or not. If you are somebody 96 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: who is battling a terminal illness, surely at the end 97 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: of the day it should be your choice. I mean, 98 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: we have seen this legislation pass right around Australia. The 99 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: concern that I've got is that what we're going to 100 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: see is it goes to this committee and that it 101 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: doesn't sort of go any further. But from what you 102 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: are saying, they've made a commitment that as of September 103 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: there will be some legislation drafted to move it forward. 104 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: In the motion is that that committee will do consultation 105 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: and then if they believe based on that that there 106 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: should be legislations, they'll give drafting instructions. They'll come back 107 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: to Parliament with drafting instructions. From my perspective, actually that's 108 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: really great. You and I had talked before about the 109 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: fact that if the government had said we're not going 110 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 2: to look at this, there would be no government resources 111 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: to assist this with drafting legislation, which makes it really 112 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: tough for an independent like me who doesn't have any 113 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: resources to do it. This means there will be government 114 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 2: resources going into it, so it's not going to be quick. 115 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: And I mean, I want to talk there are so 116 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: many people who've talked to me who are at the 117 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 2: end of their life who do wish that they could, 118 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: you know, desperately wish this is something that that could 119 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: access here and are fighting really hard for it, knowing 120 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 2: that it'll be too late for them, but wanting to 121 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 2: make sure that'll be there for other people. So we 122 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: do need to as you say, it's not something we 123 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 2: can keep delaying. We do need to make sure that 124 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: the government knows and this committee knows that this is 125 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: something that the community wants. That exactly is you say, 126 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: it's a voluntary thing. It's a piece of law that 127 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: we can develop that can address all the concerns that 128 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: people have. We can build on what's happened all across Australia. 129 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: We were the first place to have it now in 130 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: the world. Now we're the last place in Australia, but 131 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: we can benefit from that in terms of looking at 132 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: what's happened in other places and taking the best of 133 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: it and making sure that it's appropriate for our very 134 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: unique circumstances here in the Northern Territory. 135 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, really good point, Justine. I also want to ask you, 136 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: I understand your moved emotion yesterday calling on the Northern 137 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: Territory Parliament to take action to improve honesty, transparency and 138 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: accountability in government. What specifically are you calling for? 139 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, A few things. So people will know that there's 140 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: been ongoing concerns about accusations of corruption nepotism throughout the 141 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: public service in non Territory. Many people have talked to 142 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: me about this. So what I have called for is that, well, 143 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: a series of things. So first of all, that there's 144 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: a very clear government commitment to reinforcing the importance of 145 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: integrity and acknowledging those concerns in the public. To recognize 146 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: that some of the institutions that we have at the 147 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: moment aren't able to do their job as well as 148 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 2: they can. For example, IKAK and some suggestions about what 149 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: we could do to actually strengthen iye, tack and make 150 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: it do its job in a way that's going to 151 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 2: be more effective for the territory. Introduce a very clear 152 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: code of conduct for not just public servants, which we have, 153 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: but also for public sector institutions which we don't have. 154 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: Making the lobbyist register. So the LP has introduced a 155 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: lobbyist register, but it's pretty weak, to be honest, and 156 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: there are things that we could certainly strengthen in it, 157 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: for example, having ministerial diaries be open so people can 158 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: actually see who ministers a meeting with and when it's 159 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: a good idea. Okay, I mean a good idea. 160 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. 161 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean none of this is very very complicated, 162 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: Like it's really about trying to make sure that at 163 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: the end of the day, the public service and our 164 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: elected representatives are doing their job, doing it with integrity, 165 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: doing it with accountability, that there's transparency and that the 166 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: community can trust that they're doing it for them and 167 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: not for anything else. 168 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,359 Speaker 1: Justin we know the NTICA Commissioner, Michael Richards has resigned, 169 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: which is effective as of today. It comes after an 170 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: investigation by the Office of Public Employment. The government said 171 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: it remains committed to the Northern Territory ICAC, allocating that 172 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: six point six million dollars to the agency in the budget. 173 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: But what changes do you think could happen when it 174 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: comes to the IKAC to make it more effective? 175 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the ICAQ is because in 176 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: such a small jurisdiction, having an iq here does present 177 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: problems in terms conflict of interest, and we've talked about 178 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: that before, so I think looking at how the IKAC 179 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: can be structured to address that conflict of interest. I 180 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: think one of the ongoing frustrations with the IQAQ here 181 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 2: is that it doesn't seem to have power to actually 182 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: do anything that. You know, it may do investigations, but 183 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: then what happens And you know in some other jurisdictions 184 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: that their commissions, similar commissions have more power and can 185 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: do can actually do things about the investigations that they've 186 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 2: taken up. I mean, I think the looking at whether 187 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: the IKA actually has the appropriate resources to do what 188 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: they need to do. It's really good news that we're 189 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: no longer paying for two KA commissioners. That was ridiculously Yeah. Yeah, 190 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: and so I'm very glad that that's finally resolved. We 191 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: need to put things in place to make sure that 192 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: we're not in that kind of situation again. So I mean, 193 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 2: I think if we look at IACH similar institutions across Australia, 194 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: you know, our model is from my perspective, our model 195 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: is pretty good, but there are certainly things that we 196 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: could do to strengthen it. And I think there's also 197 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: a lack of community trust and confidence in the IKAQ 198 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 2: and so we need to look at that and look 199 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: at what we can do to address that. 200 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Justain Davis, it's always good to catch up 201 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: with you. Sounds like you've been busy, busy in parliament 202 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: and we'll continue to be. 203 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 2: We have been busy. The other thing I just want 204 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 2: to say, the other thing that was great that happened 205 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: yesterday as well as VAD moving forward, is that the 206 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 2: Parliament's passed a motion to properly investigate an alleged fifty 207 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: million dollars that were stolen through the Indigenous Employment Provisional SUM. 208 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: So that was a program set up to assist to 209 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: support buses, building industry employee Aboriginal workers. There was a lot. 210 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: It was closed. It was set up by BP, closed 211 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: down by labor after there were allegations of fraud between 212 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 2: fifty and one hundred million dollars. It's unclear. I've been 213 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: calling for an investigation into that for a long time. 214 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: It's taxpayers money. If that money has been stolen, it 215 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: should come back. Yeah, and that's now been referred to 216 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: the Public Accounts Committee to look at how what we 217 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: can do to get that money back and make sure 218 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: those things don't happen again. So there were two things 219 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: yesterday in Parliament that happened that I was really happy 220 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 2: to be part of. 221 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: Well, that is good to hear. Justin Davis. Always good 222 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: to catch up with you. Thank you so much for 223 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: your time this morning. 224 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: Thanks Katie too, Thank you