1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcotin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday, 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: the twenty fourth of November. I'm Zara, I'm Sam. If 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: you're worried about our climate future, you certainly aren't alone. 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: In a recent TDA poll, ninety one percent of respondents 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: said that they were experiencing climate anxiety, and close to 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 2: ninety percent said that this made them worried about having kids. 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: In today's deep Dive, I'm going to be joined by 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 2: TDA journalist Chloe Christie, who's going to share what she's 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: learned about how to manage climate anxiety and also what 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: to be hopeful about. Before we get there, though, Sam, 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: what is making headlines. 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: At least ten homes have been destroyed in bushfires in 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 3: Perth's North as bushfire warnings are still active. There is 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 3: a total fireban across the area as temperatures have reached 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 3: up to forty degrees. 22 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: A vehicle explosion at the border of the US and 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 2: Canada has led to the brief closure of a number 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 2: of border crossings ahead of Thanksgiving. The explosion occurred at 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: Rainbow Bridge after a car was seen speeding towards the 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: border checkpoint and crashed into some booths, killing two people. 27 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: New York's state governor confirmed there is no connection to 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 2: any terrorism. The Associated Press reported the two people in 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: the vehicle were husband and wife. 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 3: American actor and comedian Jamie Fox is being sued for 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 3: allegedly sexually assaulting a woman in twenty fifteen in New York. 32 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 3: The plains you have said that Fox used force and 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 3: quote seemed intoxicated. The woman is also suing the venue's company, 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 3: claiming that security guards at the venue saw the incident 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: but did not interfere. 36 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: And some Friday good news, Doris and Carl, both aged 37 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: ninety six, have become America's oldest newlyweds. The couple met 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: at a senior living community in Kansas and fell in 39 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: love from there. They were both widowers and we think 40 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: this is a great Friday News Lara, never too late. 41 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: I'm so excited today to be joined by our incredible, 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: incredible journalist Chloe Christie. You might have seen her on 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: our TikTok. She leads our TikTok and has grown that 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: from the ground up. But today she's joining us in 45 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: a different medium on podcasts. 46 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 4: So welcome, Hi, Zaarah, thanks for having me here. 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: I'm really keen to get into this chat with you, Chloe, 48 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: because I know that while I was away, you started 49 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 2: researching this story about climate anxiety. 50 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 4: I did. I was really interested. There was a study 51 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 4: that came out that talked more broadly about climate change, 52 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 4: but more specifically, how does it impact our reproductive decision making? 53 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 4: But that is just a very technical way of saying 54 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 4: whether or not we want to have kids. And what 55 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 4: the study found was that more and more people are 56 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 4: in fact choosing not to have kids because of what 57 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 4: they're calling climate related anxiety, which is a stress guilt 58 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 4: dread about the climate crisis. And so the study mentioned 59 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 4: research which I found interesting that forty percent of young 60 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 4: people they talked to sixteen to twenty five year olds, 61 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 4: So that's you, that's not me, not. 62 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: You for me, I feel very old all of a sudden, of. 63 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 4: Course, who were reluctant to have kids due to their 64 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 4: climate concerns, like forty percent. 65 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 3: That's huge. 66 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: Was that surprising to you? 67 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 4: I I was surprised, honestly. I know that climate change 68 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 4: is something a lot of people really care about. Did 69 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 4: I think we were at the stage where people are 70 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 4: basing their reproductive decisions based on climate change? Do I 71 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 4: want to have kids because the climate's dying? I didn't think. 72 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 5: So what about you? 73 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: Do you? I mean, I think that I'm a couple 74 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: of years older than you, and I think that a 75 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: lot of people you know that I'm friends with, who 76 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: might be a bit older or around my age, is 77 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: starting to have these conversations as they're starting to think 78 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: about whether they want to start families. And this is 79 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: certainly one of those things that has come up. But 80 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: I hadn't seen much research about it before. So I 81 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: think it was interesting to see numbers actually on the 82 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: page about how people are feeling about this, And the 83 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: numbers you mentioned before are from a global study. Do 84 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 2: you think that it's the same here in Australia. 85 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 4: Well, I didn't know, so I thought, if only we 86 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 4: had half a million young. 87 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: People to go on to us. 88 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 4: So we polled our audience and we got fifteen hundred 89 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 4: people respond Keeping in mind TDA has a predominantly young audience, 90 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 4: so it's not representative of all of Australia, but you 91 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 4: know what I mean. And almost ninety percent said they 92 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 4: have concerns about raising children in a climate crisis. 93 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 2: Wow. 94 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 4: And then close to sixty seven percent said that they 95 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 4: would consider not having kids at all due to climate change. 96 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: It's an incredible number. Yeah, Okay, so there's this sentiment 97 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: that people are worried about having kids because of the climate. 98 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: Crist I know that you also reached out to an 99 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: expert to understand then the psychological impacts of climate anxiety, right. 100 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 4: I reached out to an expert because I wanted to 101 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 4: know why young people feel like this, Is this a 102 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 4: rational thought that people have? And like, what do you 103 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 4: do with those feelings? So I reached out to Nicola Palfrey. 104 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 4: She's the National Clinical Advisor at Headspace. 105 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 5: When you think about the last twenty years or so 106 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 5: and what we've seen and experienced in terms of conversations 107 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: around climate change and temperature rises, and then experienced in 108 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 5: terms of natural disasters coming in quick succession, years of 109 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 5: drought followed by fires and floods and fires and again 110 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 5: La Nina's or Nina's. For young people, they can see 111 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 5: it unfolding in front of their eyes. It's not a 112 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 5: distant future thing. They're living it here and now, so 113 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 5: they're quite rightly concerned, I think, and. 114 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 4: What we've been focusing on this week in particular the 115 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 4: Daily Eyes, is that there's a growing number of people 116 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 4: who think the planet's dying. Why would I want to 117 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 4: bring kids into a dying world? What do you say 118 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 4: to them? 119 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 5: I think that's not a new experience. I suppose there's 120 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 5: often been concerned about the world being a good enough 121 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 5: place to live in, and that may be for different reasons, 122 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 5: whether it be a fear about war, or cost of 123 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,559 Speaker 5: living or climate. I think what we can say about 124 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 5: that is recognize and validate it. It's a real concern 125 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 5: and a justifiable concern, not to be dismissive of it. 126 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 4: And so that is a rational thought. Then, that people 127 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 4: don't want to have kids, I think so. 128 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's a considered thought. You know, 129 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 5: it's a considered and logical response to if you're looking 130 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 5: around you and worried about a whole lot of things, 131 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 5: not just climate anxiety, but cost of living constraints generally, 132 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 5: what's going on in the world at the moment, with 133 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 5: a lot of distress and conflict. So I don't think 134 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: it's irrational. We love to tell young people they're being irrational, 135 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 5: except when we're young ourselves. So I don't think it's 136 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 5: a helpful response to say it's a rational I think 137 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 5: it's a rational response to legitimate concerns. 138 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 4: And so you say that eco anxiety is legitimate concern. 139 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 4: Do you think it's been taken seriously enough? 140 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 5: Will young people tell us? They certainly don't think it's 141 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 5: being taken seriously enough, and they don't feel taken seriously 142 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 5: when they raise it, which is really important thing to note, 143 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 5: I think, which is if young people are concerned, and 144 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 5: they are legitimately concerned, and they raise those concerns, they 145 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 5: don't feel listen to, they don't feel taken seriously, and 146 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 5: that's what can add to distress and senses of hopelessness 147 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,559 Speaker 5: and helplessness, which are really not great for our mental health. 148 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 5: So we need to do better as the adults and 149 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 5: politicians and leaders in communities to listen to the concerns 150 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 5: of young people, to take them seriously, and also listen 151 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 5: to what solutions they have, because that's what historically has 152 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 5: happened as young people come up with great ideas about 153 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 5: what needs to happen, whether it be great, big ideas 154 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 5: and inventions or grassroots efforts, Innovation tends to come from 155 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,679 Speaker 5: those who are younger. 156 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 4: So what then can people do with their climate emotions? 157 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 5: I think first of all, to acknowledge them is important, 158 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 5: and to share them, to discuss or talk about with 159 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 5: others how you may be feeling. If it's feeling overwhelming 160 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 5: and really getting to it's really important to get help 161 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 5: and support. That might be through reaching out to family 162 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 5: supports or friends, like minded people in the community, or 163 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 5: professional help. If it really is feeling like it's starting 164 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 5: to get on top of you or you'll consume by worry, 165 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 5: that's a really good sign that you might benefit from 166 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 5: having a conversation with someone, either online or going to 167 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 5: see someone in person. But the other thing I think 168 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 5: to do is to act and to think about how 169 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 5: we can act. We all do better when we feel 170 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 5: like we have our hands on the steering wheel, a 171 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 5: little bit of our lives and our futures. So thinking 172 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 5: about connecting with local groups in whatever way it may be. 173 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 5: It may be advocating, it may be getting placards out 174 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 5: there and marching, or it might be setting up a 175 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 5: local community garden to try and reduce waste and produce 176 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 5: your own food. But all connecting online with other like 177 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 5: minded soul's senses of purpose and connection can be really 178 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 5: helpful protective factor in terms of our well being. 179 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 4: Nikola, thank you so much for your time, pleasure, Thanks 180 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 4: for having me. 181 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: Chloe, thank you so much for jumping on the pod today. 182 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: I know that this is a different terrain to what 183 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: you are used to, but you're an absolute natural and 184 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 2: we look forward to welcoming you back very often. 185 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 4: Oh thanks, Go on a TikTok. 186 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, give it a plug. What's the handle? Is 187 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 2: that what you call it on TikTok? 188 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 4: Yeah? Not that all? 189 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: Is it a handle? 190 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 4: Yeah? 191 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: At the daily okay? And what can people expect to 192 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: find there? 193 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 4: Oh? 194 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 3: Just you me? 195 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: Why why is it different? Say from the podcast? 196 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 4: I've started doing this thing where I walk the audience 197 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 4: through what it's like to pitch a story, write about it, 198 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 4: make it, produce it. All of it, and I think 199 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 4: it's interesting. 200 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: So do I. And I mean, I'm pretty sure you're 201 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: making a video about the making of this exact podcast. 202 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 4: I am so like, it's a bit met and so matter. 203 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 4: But listen to this, then go to our TikTok and 204 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 4: then watch how this was made. 205 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: Excellent. We love a meta ask. So, Chloe, thanks for 206 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: coming on the pod today. Thanks for having me.