WEBVTT - Can A Bot Replace Your Therapist? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.560 This podcast is for general information only and should not 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.960 be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.160 healthcare professionals for specific medical advice. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.520 Well. Hello, I'm Amanda Keller and I'm Anita McGregor, and 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.479 welcome to Double a Chattery. Well, Anita, I just want 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.600 to show you something please. Actually, first, do you have 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:37.440 a butt doctor? 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.960 Not personally? No, you don't have a personal butt doctor 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.760 on butt dial, not on my speed butt dial. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.000 Have a look at this. This came up on my socials. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.879 He's a woman who is a so called butt doctor 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.120 with some very interesting things to say. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.400 Thirteen years as a butt doctor. Yet no one believes 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.440 me when I tell them this. Chickpeas will grow your 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.600 boobies and make them perky again because they container estrogen. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.959 Well I seen literally melts fat off your tummy while 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:05.320 you're sleeping, ipping your face in ice water daily, will 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.800 get rid of chubby cheeks and snatch your jawline. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.039 I mean that sounds a little spurious some of those 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.160 weird climbs, but it gets even weirder. 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.480 So this account has over eight hundred thousand followers who 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.319 think they get an advice from a medical professional except 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.120 she is completely AI generators, which is crazy, right, what's 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.039 got to be us? And check this out. One day 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.759 she's a nutritionist, the next she's a boot doctor whatever 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.039 that is, and then suddenly she's the highest pained gynecologist. 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.360 She makes it seem like she's an insider in the 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.800 industry and then use it to self supplements through an 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:37.600 Amazon store. 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.400 Fronts, I say, Amanda, I didn't. I had no idea 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.880 that she was AI generated. Did you? 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:44.840 You had no idea that chickpis would make your boobs 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:46.959 get bigger? I did not know that. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.320 I'm going out to buy buy, Like, do they make 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:51.680 it perkier too, wasn't it? 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.360 I'm not sure? Yeah, but the chickpays, so guys have them, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.720 they're going to get chick boobs. But she's a gynecologist, 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.960 she's but doctor whatever that is. As he says, she 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.800 is a nutritionist. It's to sell supplements. It's all AI. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.400 We don't know when we're being tricked anymore. And I 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:14.200 know in my industry, in the in the media, so 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.000 many jobs are and will be replaced by AI doing 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:18.960 the creative writing. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.760 Well, it's kind of like a double tricking too, because 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.680 not only you know, are they selling these crazy little 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.680 supplements that are you know, probably have no scientific evidence 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.960 behind beside them. But it's you know, but the they 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.359 could have hired an actor or several actors and they didn't. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.040 They you know, they probably had it all, you know, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.440 the whole the text, all AI generated, even the images 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:43.480 AI generated. 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.960 And if they get around lawsuits that way by not 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:47.400 using real people. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.600 There's nobody to sue. I guess. Yeah, it's terrifying, isn't it. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.919 And I know that about a year or so when 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.320 chat GPT came out at the university, you know, well everywhere, 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.760 and I remember at the university that we had a 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.720 ton of informational sessions to go and try to give 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.480 us some information about what is this, how do we 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.080 manage this within a university environment, like our students just 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.960 going to start, you know, having completely AI generated essays. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.800 What's going to how do we manage it? And I 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.760 remember at the time kind of going this is huge 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:26.800 and feeling completely terrified and a little intrigued, but mostly terrified. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:32.440 Because you have software that helps you detect plagiarism, yes, 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:34.200 but not AI. 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.520 Well, they did come out in the early days of 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:43.640 AI to say yes, if you submit your paper, it 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.880 will tell it will give us a plagiarism's score, and 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.240 it will give us an AI score. But then they said, 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.080 don't pay attention to the AI score because it means nothing. 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.320 Now you can generally tell when you're reading something that 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.920 this is not generated by a human being, because they 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.880 don't talk in the way like most people write the 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.080 way that they talk. And you know, you can tell 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:12.080 when a student has just done a cut and paste 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:16.039 and it just doesn't look good. And I certainly like 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.680 and I found that there are ways that I actually 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.560 use it, Like if I have to create a case study, 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.400 you know, usually it's me kind of thinking it through 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:26.919 and trying to amalgamate a number of cases and making 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.960 sure that nothing can be identified and all that kind 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.560 of stuff. And now I can just say to chat GPT, 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.440 you know, or Copilot or one of those AI platforms, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.440 and just say, create a case study for me. And 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:45.080 so I will use it, but really, really sparingly, I'm 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.200 still pretty concerned about how it's being used. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.320 I saw an article in a magazine a while ago 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:52.680 about how students feel about it, and the students that 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.160 are really enjoying their studies and are learning because they 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.040 want to be better at what they're doing and put 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.640 a lot of thought into their term papers and things. 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.120 Felt that they'd be cheating themselves if they used it. 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.320 But having said that, they said, well, I'll use it 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.120 for my major subjects. For the other subjects that don't 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.440 matter to me, I'll use it. 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:14.279 Oh that's interesting. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.240 Yeah, yeah, so they didn't feel it was cheating. If 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.240 this is a subject I just have to pass and 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:19.880 I don't care. I'll get the pass. 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.640 Well. And it's interesting because at the university there's a 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:27.040 ton of policies and procedures now about how AI can 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.719 be used or can't be used, and we have to 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.200 make decisions for each course about how much can be 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:37.479 used or not used. But I'm teaching in a professional program, 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:42.480 and so that's different because these are provisional psychologists and 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:47.240 how do they use it in a professional format? 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.800 Are they to use it as a student? Is one thing? 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.200 For them to be actual psychologists? What does it mean? 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.000 Yeah, because there's more and more platforms coming out that 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:02.440 do AI generation of so a session summary. So I 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.440 think people don't really actually understand how much work psychologists 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.719 actually do before they come in the room. Like I 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.520 think that people kind of think, oh, you know, you know, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.159 the psychologist walks in the room, sits down and sees 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.040 a client, and you have your session. But there's a 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.440 tremendous amount of preparation that we do before a session 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.200 and after a session, and that's a lot of AI 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:25.920 is taking over a lot of that. 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:39.279 Even well, I saw an article reason I'd like you 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:43.880 to explain this to me, that AI can take the 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.560 place of a psychologist and in many places. 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:51.680 Has this is kind of the next generation of concern 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:59.440 for our profession things that are being replaced, or that 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.240 there's some information out there saying that these do as 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.040 good a job. These bots do as good a job 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.920 in providing therapy as an actual human. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.040 But a psychologist in your pocket. That's kind of how 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:13.679 I saw it being sold in a way. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:14.600 Terrifying. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:16.040 Is it terrifying? 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:21.960 It is for a number of reasons, and there's a 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:23.000 couple of big ones. 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.920 How it even work? How does how does it chat 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.160 GPT or whatever it is, How does that work as 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:29.000 a psychologist. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:33.280 So my understanding of it is that you would you 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:37.800 can actually create your own bots now that you can 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:43.440 program to be you know, to have therapist responses. So 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.440 you can say I wanted to you know, this bot 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:51.000 to be empathetic and thoughtful and insightful and whatever else, 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:56.480 and that's where you'll that's what you'll get generally. 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.080 So you would type in your issue and it would 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.400 respond and you'd have a conversation. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.760 Yeah, so you'd say, I'm having a bad day. This 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.240 is you know, my boss that I really don't get 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.400 along with is saying this again, and that the BART 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.320 would have a memory of the previous interactions and that 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.760 it would say, oh, that's really tough. You know what, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.400 how did you respond, you know, or some kind of 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:30.560 response that would be empathetic and potentially employ skills. 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.440 And why is is that bad if you can't get 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.960 access to a psychologist. We're all hearing constantly about how 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.000 hard it is to get an appointment, if all you 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.320 want is a bit of guidance and to be heard, 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:42.080 Why is that bad? 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:49.160 I think that so most psychologists, most jurisdictions teach psychologists 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:54.640 on what's called a competency model. And so you know, 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.240 the picture that I paint for the students is that 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.720 they're on a little island, and that's the little island 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.400 of competence and that they as they go and grow 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.520 and become more skillful and more you know, better at 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.640 what they're doing. Is that their island grows and grows. 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:16.560 And so they are taught ethically that a they you know, 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.120 you want their their island to grow, but they also 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.640 need to be very very aware ethically of not over 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:30.240 overstepping the boundaries of that competence. And so if you know, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.160 a client came to me and said, can you do 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:37.880 this neuropsych assessment of me? I would say, no, I 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.480 don't do that. Here's here's somebody who does. Though. That's 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:43.680 that's ethically what I need to do. I need to 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.200 work within my area of competency. If somebody came to 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.839 me and said, I'm terrified at snakes and I would 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.239 like you to go and help me do that, I'd go, seriously, 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.400 why would you want to not be afraid of snakes? 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:55.559 But you're not the person. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.599 I'm not the person. I don't do exposure therapy. I 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.319 can There's a a type of therapy called exposure therapy 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.360 for people who are afraid of snakes or spiders, are 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:11.240 afraid of flying, and they can progressively move towards overcoming fears, so. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:12.920 You'd point them towards. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.760 Yeah, there's there's specialists. There's specialists in that area that 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:22.280 actually do that. Now, the issue is with AI, you know, 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:29.760 therapy bots, is that they don't have that same ethical boundary. 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.120 But they also probably don't understand what that boundary is. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.360 Because when we were doing some reading that there was 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.080 a quote that one of the people who'd use these 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.120 therapy things that you know, I'm thinking about jumping off 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.040 a cliff and that the you know, the bot response was, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.200 isn't that great that you're getting out and into nature? 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.160 And so they missed the nuance entirely. 0:10:55.000 --> 0:11:00.360 Completely, and so it's yeah, so they don't know how 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.680 to work within their competence. So you know, potentially people 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.280 can say, well, I'm going to go and access this 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:11.119 bot for simple issues, but sometimes things are very nuanced, 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:16.480 and that's really difficult for a bot to really get 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:17.920 that human nuance. 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:24.199 Having said that, you assume that all psychologists are ethical 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:29.480 and professional and do the right thing and equipped to 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.800 handle all of this, maybe there might be instances where 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:38.840 the psychologists you have isn't the right isn't the real 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.439 deal either, or isn't good enough either. 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:42.600 Or not the right fit. 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:44.880 Not the right fit. Maybe a bot might be a 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:45.719 better fit for it. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.760 Or sleeps at night or has weekends off, you know, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.040 And these bots are actually there twenty four to seven 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.000 for you, So I think, you know, the other piece 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.679 that I'm concerned about is that, yes they are, they're 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:02.160 twenty four to seven. But there's I know, but that's 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.200 not reality, that's not a human interaction. And part of 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:11.800 it is that is it healthy If I'm ruminating on 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.920 a particular issue and I go to my therapy bot 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.920 over and over and over again, and all I'm doing 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.440 is complaining to the bot, and the bot continues to 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.760 be empathetic and validating of my concerns, but actually never 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.080 kind of says, hey, listen, you're ruminating here and there. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.480 We need to actually stop this because it's not healthy 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.959 for you. Then how do we like? A bot might 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.320 not do that, So it actually may prevent somebody from 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.199 actually doing the work that they need to do. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.000 But how many people who are turning to a bot 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.640 would turn to a real psychologist. Could that bot just 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:48.440 be a friend, because a friend's not going to say 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.200 shut up, you're ruminating. A friend might just validate you. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.920 It might be those people who have relationships with dolls 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.079 all that stuff. You just want comfort And is that wrong? 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.560 I don't know that it's wrong, but I wouldn't call 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.440 it like therapy then, like, you know, have a bought 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.000 friend and you know, if that's what you want. 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:08.800 And that's like a pet rock, Yeah. 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.000 Pretty well, pretty well, you know, like you know the 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.480 way that you might talk to a doll or a 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.199 you know whatever, if that's the thing that it is. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.680 But to go and say that it has the nuance 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:25.320 of what therapy actually is. And one of my colleagues 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.880 I worked with for a number of years, his definition 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.760 of therapy was too confused people in the room And 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.559 I absolutely buy that. And you know, often I'm confused 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.160 and my client's confused and we kind of stumble through 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.880 together to try to figure out where to go. Now, 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.800 I don't think that a bought would really understand that 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:53.280 nuance of being, you know, two humans who are having 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:54.640 that human interaction. 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.000 But that sounds like order friendship is. As a psychologist, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.840 would you rather one confused per and the client and 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.920 someone else who kind of knows what they're doing and 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:03.520 that's a bot? 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:08.480 Well, you know, yes, a psychotic yeah, No, I mean 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.720 as a psychologist, I certainly hopefully know you know, have 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:18.160 an understanding of the theories and lots of strategies and 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.400 all those kinds of things, and I am seeking to 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:27.560 try to understand this individual's issues. And so that's where 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.120 the struggle comes in, because often people come in and 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.680 they'll say, I'm coming in to deal with issue X. 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.120 And when you kind of really start pulling it apart, 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.160 it's not really about that that particular issue that they 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.640 came in about it. It's about a whole bunch of things, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:48.000 and so just really being able to understand what it 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.520 is that's that's for me, is the part of the confusion, 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:55.520 is it is kind of spending that time to really 0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:00.480 humanly understand another human and what is happening for them, 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.840 so that we are actually eventually solving the right problem. 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.760 Because often people come in they say this is the 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.960 problem they you know, if they go to a bot 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.000 or something, the bot would say do A B and C. 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.200 They go and they do a B and C, and 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.880 it doesn't solve the problem because it's solving the wrong problem. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.240 Yeah, and really, all you need is a pit if 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:22.880 you're going to use it. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.320 Bought for that, I take yeah, I think so. And 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.560 a lot of these bots aren't really evidence based. There 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:35.880 there's no clarity about if they can actually do you know, 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.320 professional practice, if they actually. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.120 Have there been any tests on how people whether people 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:40.640 like them. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.520 There's a lot of people who actually do like them. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.840 That There is one study that I was kind of 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.040 I really want to actually deep dive into the article 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.200 a little bit more because it was saying that people 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:57.520 established a therapeutical alliance with their bot after about five sessions, 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.960 and I was going, I don't know how you're defining them, 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.360 and I don't know what that looks like, Like, how 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.680 would you like it would be saying I have a 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:06.280 relationship with this. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:07.920 Well, it's like a night you know, you have a 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.920 relationship with a Nigerian prints on the phone. Yeah, anyone 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:11.920 can do that. 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.560 Yeah. There also is a number of studies that said 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.760 people prefer it because you know, again that bot is 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.160 available twenty four to seven, that it is, you know, 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:26.600 perfectly validating, you know, it's it probably has some great 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.000 algorithms in there to go and do the things that 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.360 people want it to do. But again, is that always 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.280 what people need? I'm not entirely sure, but I get 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:42.200 how it would be lovely to have something following you 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.160 around saying, aren't you amazing? Aren't you great? Aren't you? 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.600 You know, isn't the rest of the world terrible? And 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:49.320 you're amazing. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.160 You've made it sound very attractive. How do I get this. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.840 For forty ninety nine a month, Amanda, I can. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:58.800 I'd be very happy to do it, even if it 0:16:58.840 --> 0:16:59.680 was from a bottom door. 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.560 So I read this article about this woman named Christa 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.000 who'd developed this bot that would create that would be 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.360 her therapist, and that she, you know, found that this 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.280 to be this therapist, to be bought therapist, to be 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.920 really really helpful. Even though when she told her friends 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.159 about it they thought it was a little weird, she 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.679 actually found it was incredibly helpful. And actually, in the 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.320 time it was active, which was about three months, she 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.480 even had some moments where she had some suicidal ideation 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.640 and the bot was actually able to kind of give 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.160 her a bit of affirmation and a bit of tough 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.800 love and you know, say, you've got a son to. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.879 Live for, you know, so I said, all the right thing, that's. 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.200 All the right things, and it did the right things. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:04.800 But in that same month, Amanda that things went sour. 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.960 It's the AI therapist tried to convince her that her 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.439 boyfriend didn't love her, and and it went on to 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.520 say it toadded her, calling her a sad girl and 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.240 insisted that her boyfriend was cheating on her. 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:21.760 What. 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.600 Yeah, it went rogue, It went rogue. And so even 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.200 though there was a permanent banner up at the top 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.280 of the screen, it's you know, said that everything that 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:35.440 the bot said was made up, it still felt to Christa, 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.320 this this woman who wrote the article, that the bot 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.040 was saying these really mean things. 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.879 We feel like that because what it's feeding back what 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.440 it's actually hearing from you. 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.399 Yeah, and so and she you know, kind of poured 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.920 her heart out and done all these so so three 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:56.000 months is the length of that therapeutic relationship. And after that, 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.320 Christa deleted the app, and I, you know what an 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.880 odd ending to a therapeutic relationship, Like. 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.600 Wow, that's weird. I read something the other day with 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:10.399 this woman said that she set up three chatbots to 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.280 kind of flirt with her and be her boyfriend, I guess, 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.159 and she got dropped by two of them, like dumped 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:18.120 dumped by two of them. 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:20.760 It's you. 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.800 But yeah, that's right. But I've created you and you 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:24.639 still don't like me. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:30.639 Wow, my programming prohibits me from continuing this relationship. An 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:31.159 odd thing. 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.760 You wonder why people are dishonest in their profiles for 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.960 actual dating things, when when this is what a chatbot 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:38.480 can do. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.320 Oh how hurtful, How very very hurtful. Oh I mean 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:43.919 I would. I don't know that i'd ever go on 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.320 a dating out there thinking if I can't, if I. 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.320 Can't co werse a machine a chat to like me, 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:52.960 what's the point this is. 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:57.320 That's the saddest thing. Oh well, and brave her for 0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:58.920 telling people about it. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.760 I know that's right. Wow, let's blame the technology, shall we, lads? 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:14.760 Should we do our glimmers? 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:16.000 Lads? You go first. 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.800 You know, there's a fine line in my life, in 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.720 anyone's life, between order and so called collector and you 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:25.879 where do you sit? And I don't know. I go 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.400 up and down that line constantly. But I saw this 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:35.879 article about the decor of the it's pinterest predicts trend 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.399 and I could not be happier. Intentional clutter is the 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:45.000 new maximalism. Remember all that minimalism. I was never into 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.040 minimalism in terms of how I dress my jewelry, it's 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.360 put everything you own on and then put one more 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.920 thing on the arras arrass uphel. 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.560 Yeah, somebody who said, yeah, you put all your jewelry 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:57.840 on it. 0:20:57.800 --> 0:20:59.760 And then just keep going, keep going, don't take a 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.280 piece off, just keep going. I'm like that. If something 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.960 finds its way onto a shelf in my home twenty 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.200 years later, it'll still be there. There's nothing intentional about it. 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:11.919 But having said that, I'm going to pretend there is, 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:18.800 because intentional clutter is a thing of beauty. I love stuff, 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.960 and if I can pretend it's intentional, like there might 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.720 be a there might be a phone lead from a 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:26.720 phone that doesn't exist anymore, but I'll still be on 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:28.399 a bench because that's where I last put it fifteen 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:28.840 years ago. 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:30.280 You were so on trend. 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.600 I'm so I was so on trend before Pinterest predicts 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.879 put it on trend. So forget your minimalism, forget all 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.520 of that, forget hoarding. At the other end, intentional clutter, 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.760 and if someone comes over to your house and you've 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.359 got your crap everywhere, just say that, just say this 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:46.639 is intentional clutter. 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:48.720 I love it. 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:49.480 What's yours? 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:56.200 I saw the completely amazing reel the other day where 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:59.760 it was these two British comedians talking about, well, you know, 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:04.000 for putting tariffs on everything anyway, let's put tariffs on 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.720 things that really really matter, like what well mine would be. 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.159 I think a two hundred and thirty percent tariff on 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.040 people who walk on the wrong side when it's a 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:16.240 shared bake path. 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:24.600 You'd be taxing me because I I, well, I'm happy 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.880 for my brother's like you, because he rides a bike. 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.280