1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: Daily OS. It's Monday, the seventh of April. I'm Billy Fitzsimon's. 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: I'm Zara Seidler. 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: We are now officially just under a month away from 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: the federal election in Australia. Now we know that the 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: top issue that most young people will be voting on 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: is cost of living. So in today's podcast, I interview 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: the Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor, who will be the person 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: responsible for Australia's economy if the coalition is elected. 11 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 2: Now, Billy, I want to get straight into today's chat, 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: but just before we do. The economy is obviously something 13 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: that affects everybody, but it can also be quite complex. 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: So is there anything we need to know context wise 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: before we start this chat. 16 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: I think the main thing I just want to really 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 1: quickly explain is the relationship between inflation and wages, because 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: you'll hear myself and Angus Taylor get into it in 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: the interview, and I think the context is important. So 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to really quickly just give you economics one 21 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: oh one great. So inflation is the official measure for 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: price growth. So when your coffee, you know, goes from 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: four dollars to four dollars fifty in the space of 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: a year, that exact process is what we call inflation. Now, 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: as many of us are aware because you can see 26 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: it with everyday expenses. We have just gone through a 27 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: period of very high inflation where the cost of everything, 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: including our coffee, has gone up very quickly. I feel 29 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: like the price of coffee went from three dollars to 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: five dollars in the space of three years. 31 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: And sometimes you wake up and notice it more days 32 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: than others. Yes, I remember paying for my coffee recently 33 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: and being like this feels like daylight. I don't know 34 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: if I want to pay. 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: For this right now exactly. And so that is inflation, 36 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: and how wages comes into this is if your income 37 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: is not increasing at the same rate as inflation, then 38 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: technically your income is actually going backwards because with the 39 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: price of everything going up, your income is buying less 40 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: than it was previously able to. And just to really 41 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: quickly lay out the facts of what has happened, inflation, 42 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: like I said, has been really high, and it was 43 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: increasing at a faster rate than wages. For quite a 44 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: few years, but in the past year or so, wages 45 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: have actually started increasing or outpacing inflation. And that's what 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: you'll hear myself and Angus Taylor go back and forth 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: on and so that's the relationship between wages and inflation. 48 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: Billy, thanks for explaining that. It's always helpful to understand 49 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: the concepts that lie behind some of the things that 50 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: you talk about with these politicians because ultimately, as we know, 51 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: they serve us and we all need to be included 52 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: in this conversation. And so, without further ado, here is 53 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: Billy interviewing the Shadow treasure Angus Taylor. 54 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: Angus Taylor, thank you so much for joining the Daily Ours. 55 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 3: Great to be with you and thanks for having me. 56 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: So you're the Shadow Treasurer. For those who don't know 57 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: what you do, do you want to just explain it? 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, So there's two sides in politics, the government and 59 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 4: the opposition, and right now we're in opposition and there's 60 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 4: matching roles on either side of course, the leaders Peter 61 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 4: Dutton and Anthony Albanezi, and then the Treasurer and myself 62 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 4: her opposite numbers. And so I hold the government to 63 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 4: account is my job. On economic matters, treasury matters, and 64 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 4: of course that's been incredibly important over the last couple 65 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 4: of years because the economy has been front and center 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 4: in people's lives with the cost of living crisis we've 67 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 4: been facing. 68 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: Now we know that the economy will be the top 69 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: issue for many young people this election. How would a 70 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: coalition government improve the layers of young people when it 71 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: comes to the cost of living. 72 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great question. The key here is to 73 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 4: focus on beating inflation, boosting growth in the economy, and 74 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 4: backing small businesses. We think that is that the essence 75 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 4: of what is needed right now. We've seen inflation in 76 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 4: this country slower to come down than most of our 77 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 4: peer countries, and our growth has been slow, particularly growth 78 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 4: per person, and that means incomes haven't risen. In fact, 79 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 4: they've gone back on average in real terms by about 80 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 4: eight percent, so. 81 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: That in the past twelve months, though wages have outpaced inflation. 82 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: Well, it depends who you are. 83 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 4: For a lot of people, it hasn't, according to so 84 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 4: over the last two and a half years, that's kind 85 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 4: of the relevant period we're looking at. We've seen for 86 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 4: working people, the typical income increase has been around half 87 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 4: of the price increase. Our economy is not working for 88 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 4: hard working Australians right across the board, and it's been 89 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 4: particularly those who are on earned incomes. People who've got 90 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,239 Speaker 4: asset income, they've got money in shares and houses probably 91 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 4: done a bit better. But those who are out working 92 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,799 Speaker 4: every day for their income, they've really suffered. 93 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: And that's young people, of course, And in terms of 94 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: policies that the Coalition is proposing to help young people, 95 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: what are they well? 96 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 4: So right at the heart of this is if we're 97 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 4: going to make our standard living go up, we need 98 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 4: to beat inflation. So prices have got to go up 99 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 4: at a slower rate than incomes. And I don't think 100 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 4: that war is over yet. Inflation is incredibly corrosive. It 101 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 4: traditionally tends to come back, so how do you get 102 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 4: rid of it. You've got to cut waste. Any unnecessary 103 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 4: wasting government adds to inflation. And absolutely key to this 104 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 4: for younger people is fixing the housing crisis we've got 105 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 4: in this country, where we haven't had enough houses nowhere 106 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 4: near enough given the growth we've seen in our population, 107 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 4: about half of what we needed over the last three years. 108 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 4: We've got to get more supply into the market and 109 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: make it easier for young people to buy a house 110 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 4: or to rent a house. 111 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: And how will you make it easier for young people? 112 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 3: Well, I start with the supply side. 113 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 4: So we've already announced a five billion dollar fund which 114 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 4: is about breaking the infrastructure bottlenecks that hold back building houses. 115 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 4: We think that'll get a five hundred thousand new houses 116 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,239 Speaker 4: into the market, and with a particular focus on first 117 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 4: home buyers. Often those sorts of houses are often rented 118 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 4: first too, by the way, so we think that's really 119 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 4: important to give young people a chance of getting into 120 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 4: the marketplace. And that will address one of the biggest 121 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 4: inflation issues cost of living issues, which is housing. 122 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: And so that's the supply side of things. I know 123 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: you will also have a policy to help younger people 124 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: get into the housing pay Yeah. 125 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: Sure, so on the demand side. As long as we've 126 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 4: got the supply side cover, then we can do work 127 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 4: on the demand side. We've also said that we'll reset 128 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 4: expectations with the regulators on how loans are made to 129 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 4: people buying a home, and in particular, that will mean 130 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 4: will get more affordable, more accessible to home loans and 131 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 4: that is absolutely We know the regulator right now is 132 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 4: making it harder for people to get access to a 133 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 4: loan and more expensive than needs to be the case, 134 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 4: and we will direct the regulator to change the way 135 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 4: they're doing it. 136 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 3: We've seen real overreach. 137 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 4: By regulators in a bunch of varias over the last 138 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 4: couple of years, and one of those is in the 139 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 4: cost and accessibility of home loans. 140 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: That will apply to all home loans, so everyone will 141 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: be able to access bigger loans from the bank. So 142 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: how will that help young people specifically, Well. 143 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 4: We know the group that is having the most problem 144 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 4: getting access to loans and having the income to be 145 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 4: able to take out a loan to buy a house 146 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 4: is the first home buyers in younger Australians. We know 147 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 4: that's the group that's been hurt far and away the most. 148 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: So whilst it's non discriminatory and I like non discriminatory policy, 149 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 4: in fact, in its effect it will benefit younger people 150 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 4: far more than any other group. 151 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: But it could also push up the housepaces. 152 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 4: Not if we get supply increasing, and that's why I 153 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 4: wanted to talk about supply first. The key to good 154 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 4: housing policy is to get both sides right. 155 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: I want to move to tax cuts. Labor has introduced 156 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: a tax cut for all taxpayers. The Coalition is against 157 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: that tax cut and would repeal it if it gets 158 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: into power. 159 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,559 Speaker 4: Why well, because we don't think that's genuine and tax 160 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 4: reform that over the long term is going to deal 161 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 4: with the underlying issues in our tax system. The government's 162 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 4: approach is a seventy cents a day in fifteen months time. 163 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 4: That's not going to provide cost a living relief for 164 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 4: people immediately, and so we think it's the wrong answer. 165 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 4: We do think there is a need for reform to 166 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 4: our tax system over time, but we've got to repair 167 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 4: the budget first. 168 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: I've heard you say before that under Labor Australians are 169 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: paying more tax at the moment, But why is that 170 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: when there have been tax cuts. 171 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 4: So it's a great question because that's what inflation does. 172 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 4: So if you look at the history of periods of inflation, 173 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 4: it's really good for government budgets because taxes go up 174 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 4: with inflation, your income because of the wages go well, 175 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 4: your income goes up, but prices go up more. As 176 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 4: I said earlier, in an inflationary period, so you're purchasing 177 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 4: power what you can buy goes down, but you're paying 178 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 4: more tax because your income's gone up and you're often 179 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 4: popping up into a higher tax bracket. 180 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: But then are you saying that wages going up too quickly? 181 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 4: No, we want wages going up. We just want we 182 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 4: want wages going up faster than prices. 183 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: This is the which in the last twelve months they have. 184 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 4: Well, you know, it depends on the group, and at 185 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: best barely so. I mean, as I say, for the 186 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 4: typical Australian household, the reduction over the last two and 187 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 4: a half years has been eight percent. 188 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: And you're saying that Australians are paying more tax, but 189 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: just to be clear, you are against a tax card. 190 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 4: Well, no, we want to see lower taxes over time. 191 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 4: And the key and the most important thing you can 192 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 4: do to avoid higher taxes is to beat inflation. That's 193 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 4: the single most important thing you can do. We know 194 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 4: this again from history, from past periods and bouts of inflation. 195 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 4: Beat inflation first. That helps you to have a higher. 196 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: Now because we are within the target range. 197 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 4: You know what, there's no I think there's very few 198 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 4: economists who have complete confidence that we're there sustainably. We've 199 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 4: got to be the track it's light. Well, inflation is 200 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 4: like cockroaches. Until you've got rid of the last one, 201 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 4: you don't know that they're gone. And that's been the history. 202 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 4: By the way, the Reserve Bank confirmed that in their 203 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 4: statement earlier this week where they said there's still great 204 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 4: uncertainty and very real risk of a surge of inflation 205 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 4: coming in the future. 206 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: You mentioned the fuel excise, which is the coalition's alternative 207 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: to the tax cuts. For those who haven't heard about it, 208 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: do you just want. 209 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 4: To explain, Well, it is importantly, it is a tax cut, 210 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 4: a twenty five cent elater reduction in the price of 211 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 4: fuel because we tax fuel now and that's a harving 212 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 4: of that tax, which equals about twenty five cents a leader. 213 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 4: And the important point is it's immediate straightaway after getting 214 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 4: into government. And the contrast is what Labour's offering is 215 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 4: seventy cents a day in fifteen months time. 216 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: But the difference with this one is that it would 217 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: only last a year. 218 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 219 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 4: So, and the whole point of this is the cost 220 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 4: of living crisis must be finished. We've got to stop 221 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 4: inflation going up. We must sustainably beat it. 222 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: I want to move to hex which is another big 223 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: cost of living issue for young people. Labor has a 224 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: plan to wipe student debts by twenty percent. I understand 225 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: the Coalition is against this, but does the Coalition have 226 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: a plan to make any changes to the HEX system. 227 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, so the biggest issue here, and I was the 228 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 4: first generation that had HEX, so I remember it well 229 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 4: and I was supportive of it because I felt I 230 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 4: was going to get a university degree and that gave 231 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 4: me advantages that friends I had who were going off 232 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 4: to be tradees or doing other things didn't have. 233 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: And I kind of thought that's fair enough. 234 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: It was lych it have to be one of the 235 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: only people that welcomed. 236 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 3: The det well, I just felt it was fair. 237 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 4: I just felt it was fair because I did get it, 238 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 4: and I you know, I look back at my career. 239 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 4: I've had a very big advantage from my university education. 240 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: But in terms of a policy that the Coalition, yeah, right. 241 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 4: So I'll come to that, but I think the starting 242 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 4: point here is the issue for younger Australians is if 243 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 4: you've got HEX, a lot harder to buy, to take 244 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 4: out a loane, start business, buy a home. And we're 245 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 4: really conscious of that now. We want to make it 246 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 4: easier for all young people to buy a home, not 247 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 4: just those with a university degree. We do, of course 248 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 4: want to make it easier for them to buy a home, 249 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 4: but also tradees and others who choose not to have 250 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 4: a university degree. 251 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: So when it comes to young people, no change to HEX, 252 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: but we're helping them more with passing as well. 253 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 3: It's correct one hundred percent. 254 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Let's move on. I want to look at the declining 255 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: birth rate. Your colleague Matt Canavan recently spoke to TDA 256 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: about a policy he's proposing to help the declining birth 257 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: rate in Australia. So he wants to offer couples a 258 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: loan of one hundred thousand dollars once they have their 259 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: first child to help buy their first home, and that 260 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: loan would then be wiped if they have three children. 261 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: What do you think of that policy? 262 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: Well, it's not our policy, but I think has. 263 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 4: A suggestion from your colleague intent will the intent actually, 264 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 4: I think is right. I think I mean not everyone 265 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 4: wants to have a family, and that's fine too, but 266 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 4: we want to make sure that people feel as though 267 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 4: they can have a family and it's not too big 268 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 4: a barrier. We know around the world. One of the 269 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 4: biggest factors that helps people to feel as though they 270 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 4: can have a family is owning a home. We know that, 271 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 4: and that's why I completely agree with Matt's intent there. 272 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: So just broadly, do you see the declining birth rate 273 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: as a problem specifically for the Australian economy? 274 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 4: Well, I think it is an issue, yeah, I really do. 275 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 4: And it's not confined to Australia. We see it in 276 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 4: other countries. I mean country like South Korea. It's diabolically low. Yes, 277 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 4: So I think it's an issue for the economy. I 278 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 4: mean I don't think we should tell people how to 279 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 4: make their own choices about these things. Everyone will have 280 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 4: a different view about whether they want to have a family, 281 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 4: but we need to make sure they feel as though 282 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 4: they have the choice. And I think a lot of 283 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 4: younger Australians are feeling as though that choice has got 284 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 4: harder and harder. So I do think this is incredibly important. 285 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 4: I do think home ownership is really the key and 286 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 4: the one thing that government can play a role in 287 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 4: trying to facilitate. 288 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: So toy beic clear, your solution to the declining birth 289 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: rate is the home ownership. 290 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 4: Home ownership I think is absolutely and that's where I 291 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 4: completely agree with what Matt had to say. 292 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: Let's move to nuclear energy. For those who aren't across this, 293 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: what is the coalition's sixty second pitch to set up 294 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: a nuclear energy system in Australia. 295 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, we need an energy system in this country that 296 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 4: can support falling emissions, bringing emissions down, but can also 297 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 4: be affordable and accessible for households, small businesses and heavy industry, 298 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 4: including what the fastest growing demand on the electricity grid, 299 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 4: which is data centers AI driven often and that whole 300 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 4: new industry. Renewables can absolutely will be part of it 301 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 4: and are growing fast and will continue to grow fast. 302 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 4: I haven't been renewables alone. You have to have other 303 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 4: fuel sources and what nuclear can provide is the zero 304 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 4: emission base load part of that system. Now, if you 305 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 4: don't have that, I can tell you what happens. Heavy 306 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 4: industry leaves this country, you know, aluminium smelting data centers. 307 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 4: You will see people not wanting to build data centers 308 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 4: in this country. And there's a whole industry around that 309 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 4: that flows from that that we would lose, which is 310 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 4: why most of the big technology companies around the world 311 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 4: are strongly pro nuclear, strongly pro nuclear. 312 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: You said it can get us to net zero by 313 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: twenty fifty, but the Climate Change Authority, which is an 314 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: independent government agency, found that your nuclear plan would make 315 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: it quote virtually impossible to meet Australia's net zero target 316 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: by twenty fifty. So that's wrong. 317 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 4: Then, well, I disagree with that, and we've had independent 318 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 4: modeling to say say something very different to that, which 319 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 4: they also are. Well, let's just go to common sense, 320 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 4: because I think it's important here. Nuclear generators are zero missions, 321 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 4: zero emissions. So I can't understand how fourteen giga works, 322 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 4: which is a lot of energy, right, We're talking about 323 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 4: here seven to two gigawork nuclear generators. 324 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 3: They're big generators. 325 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 4: How zero emissions basely generators can make it harder. I 326 00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: think it makes it at easier. 327 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: We could be talking about nuclear for hours, but we 328 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: have to move on and I want to talk about 329 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: the public service. So part of the coalition's plan to 330 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: save money is to cut down the public service. The 331 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: coalition has said it intends to reduce the workforce of 332 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: the public sector by forty one thousand, which departments in 333 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: the public service will be at. 334 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 4: Risk yeah, So the focus here is not on the 335 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 4: frontline services, but there's a significant part of the public 336 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 4: service that's not doing frontline services and we think that 337 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 4: can be more efficient. We've seen forty one thousand additional 338 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 4: public service since Labour's come to power, so that's just 339 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 4: over two and a half years, close to three years, 340 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 4: so it's very very rapid growth. We think natural attrition 341 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 4: can play a big role because the public service is 342 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 4: now very big. 343 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, sorry, just on the natural attrition, I 344 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: don't know if a lot of people not that meany 345 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: So that. 346 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 4: Means when people just naturally leave the job, you don't 347 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 4: replace them or you move people around to deal with it. 348 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 4: So this is what I want to drive. I've learned 349 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 4: over the course of my career that a bigger team 350 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 4: is not always a better team. We want to empower 351 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 4: public servants. We've got tremendous people in the public service 352 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 4: in Australia to get on and do their jobs, to 353 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 4: move in and out of the private sector. It's a 354 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 4: different looking public sector, but I think it's one that's 355 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 4: a much more exciting place to work and can get 356 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 4: a lot more done and we don't need it to 357 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: be bigger. 358 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: But you won't tell us which device. 359 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 4: Look, it won't be front office jobs, is the point. 360 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 4: I mean, we're not going to reduce the size of 361 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 4: the defense force or veterans support or any of those 362 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 4: important things. 363 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: We've obviously seen a similar approach be taken in the US. 364 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: Are you drawing from the example that has been set 365 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: by President Donald Trump and Elon Musk? 366 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. 367 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 4: I mean we're doing this in a way which is 368 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 4: right for Australia, I think is a very different model 369 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 4: to what the US is going down. We want to 370 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 4: empower our best public servants to do their job better, 371 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 4: and I think that's what most public servants. 372 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 3: Want to do. 373 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: So you're saying you're not drawing from the example set 374 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: by President Donald Trump. But the Coalition has created a 375 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: new portfolio called the Shadow Minister for Government Efficiency, which 376 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: is obviously very similar to Musk's Department of Government Efficiency. 377 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: Are you saying they're not related? 378 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 3: Well, no, I. 379 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 4: Mean I'll give you an illustration of how they're different. 380 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 4: So Mask of course is not an elected official. He's 381 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 4: not a minister in the Westminster since in our sense 382 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 4: of government, whereas just Enterprice will be that Minister. She 383 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 4: is a senator, she's an elected senator and she's part 384 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 4: of our parliament. So it's a very different model we're 385 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 4: talking about here. 386 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: Sorry to go on about it, but Shadow Minister for 387 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: Government Efficiency and Department of Government Efficiency, you're saying those 388 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: are a coincidence that they're called the same thing. 389 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 4: Well, we want to see a better, more efficient government 390 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 4: in this country for every single taxpayer, and we want 391 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 4: to empower public servants to be their absolute best. 392 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: That's my approach on the topic of the US. This 393 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: week we have seen the introduction of new tariffs being 394 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: imposed on all countries. Peter Dutten has said the Coalition 395 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: potentially could have secured a different outcome. 396 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 4: What makes you think that, Well, because when we had 397 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 4: the last Republican administration, we were able to secure phenomenal 398 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 4: outcomes on many things by having deep connections into that administration. 399 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 4: We didn't agree with them on everything, that's for sure, 400 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: but we worked incredibly hard to have those connections. I 401 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 4: don't think this government yet has those connections into this administration. 402 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 4: I really don't. I mean part of the reason is 403 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 4: some of the things that the Prime Minister and the 404 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 4: Ambassador have said about the US administration, which I won't repeat, 405 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 4: but they're not kind and so you could imagine you 406 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 4: can understand why there's lots of skepticism from the Americans 407 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 4: on this. 408 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: To be realistic, though there have been no exemptions for 409 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: any country. 410 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 4: Well, every country's got different rates actually, so there, I 411 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 4: mean depends what you call an exemption. So I think 412 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 4: we can do better. I think we must do better, 413 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 4: and getting access to these markets is incredibly important for 414 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 4: our exporters. 415 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: Are you confident that you could reverse them. 416 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 4: I'm very confident we can get connections into this administration 417 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 4: where we can make the hard case and take them 418 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 4: on on important issues like this. 419 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: I think we can do better, but not necessarily reverse them. 420 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 4: Well, I think, I mean, getting a better outcome is 421 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 4: what we want. 422 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: Final question. Recently, there has been a lot of conversation 423 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: about new media and influencers and their role in the 424 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: federal election. What's your take on that debate. 425 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I've got no problem with influencers. I 426 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 4: think what's really important though, is that our media remains 427 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 4: strongly fact based and informs people of what's going on, 428 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 4: Which is you're doing that in marvelous and innovative ways 429 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 4: and you've clearly connected to an audience really effectively doing that, 430 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 4: and we want to see more of that, not less. 431 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: Your leader Peter Dudden has rejected our request for an interview. 432 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? 433 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 3: Oh, you'd have to ask them. 434 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: I've tried, you won't answer. 435 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 4: I'll see if I can help with that. But I mean, look, 436 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 4: I think what you're doing is really important. I think 437 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 4: traditional media will remain for many, many years and that's 438 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 4: a good thing. But it's clear that we've got a 439 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 4: generation now who you're using different ways of accessing media. 440 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 3: So well done on what you're doing. 441 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, so you'll help us get Peter Dunne, I 442 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: all them my best, Angus Taylor, thank you so much. 443 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: Great to be with you. 444 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 2: That's all we've got for today's podcast. As you heard 445 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 2: at the end there, we are trying our very best 446 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 2: to get the opposition leader, Peter Dudden on this podcast 447 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 2: as well. We believe it's really important for all young 448 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: people to hear from both sides of politics. So if 449 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 2: you're listening, mister Duddan, we can't wait to interview you. 450 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: But that is all we have on today's episode of 451 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: The Daily Os We'll be back later today with the 452 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 2: headlines as usual, but until then, enjoy your day. 453 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 454 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: Bungelung Kalguttin woman from Gadigal Country. The Daily os acknowledges 455 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the land of the 456 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: Gadigal people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate 457 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: island and nations. We pay our respects to the first 458 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 1: peoples of these countries, both past and present.