1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: This is the Happy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coilson, 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: where Luke and Susie and this is the podcast for 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: the time poor parent who just wants answers now. 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: And sus this is great. This is your question. You 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 2: want to try and get permission from our parenting expert 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: to find out when is it okay to ignore our kids? 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: You're done, You've had enough, and you want approval for. 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: This to give you What was going through my head 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: about this? Doctor Justin Coilson's in the studio with us, 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: and we've been talking with Justin for a long time now, 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: and I've learnt I think a little bit about the 12 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: style of parenting that he promotes, and it's quite a 13 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: shepherding approach. It's a guiding and leading approach with our children. 14 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: And when I thought about this in the context of 15 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: ignoring children's behavior, I suddenly thought, I wonder if that's 16 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: something that you would approve of in certain context, because 17 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: that is that really teaching our children what is not okay. 18 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: So, because we tend to have a switch full on, 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: switch full off theories of parenting, what do you think, Justin, 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 2: is it ever okay? When is the time to ignore kids? 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: Poor behavior. 22 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 3: That's a really good question I put you in. 23 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: I guess the question really is is there ever a 24 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: time where it's appropriate to ignore you? Because we hear 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: it a lot, I just ignore them, just ignore them, 26 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,279 Speaker 1: But is that actually guiding and teaching our children through 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: whatever they're doing. 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 4: You know, the place where people usually will say you 29 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 4: should ignore your child's behavior is during like a toddler tantrum. 30 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 4: You know, the child's going absolutely bananas, You need to 31 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 4: ignore them. 32 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 3: I have a different way of approaching things. 33 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 4: If a child's going bananas, it's because they've got some 34 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 4: sort of an unmet need. It might be because they 35 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 4: want something that they can't have. You know, I want 36 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 4: to play with the iPad. Well, no, it's not screen time. 37 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 4: I want to go outside and plan on the swings. 38 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 4: I know, but it's raining and it's four degrees or 39 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 4: you know, they had these big tantrums and some people say, well, 40 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: you just ignore it and it'll go away. When I 41 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 4: was a kid, when I was a toddler, I used 42 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 4: to hold my breath and my mum was told by 43 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 4: the pediatrician that she needed. 44 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 3: To ignore it. 45 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 4: And she said, if I ignore it, he'll pass out 46 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 4: and the pediatrician said that's right, and so Mum ignored it, 47 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 4: and I passed out. 48 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: And it happened a couple of times. 49 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 4: I would actually hold my breath until I passed out, 50 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 4: but eventually apparently I stopped doing that. 51 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: I'm here today to tell the story. I've been affected. 52 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: I was thinking what happened in the edge, look. 53 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 3: At the way my brain works. 54 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 4: So I don't necessarily think that ignoring it is a 55 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 4: good idea unless you want your children to pass out, 56 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 4: or unless you want them to I mean, you think 57 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 4: about it. When you ignore your kids, does that improve 58 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,839 Speaker 4: their behavior? If the kids are fighting with each other, 59 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 4: does ignoring them make them something go I'm not getting 60 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 4: intention from my parents. I think that I'll start behaving now. 61 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: They usually actually make things worse. If you ignore a 62 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 4: toddler tantrum, that toddler continues to tantrum. What we need 63 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 4: to do instead is understand what's going on with our children. 64 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 4: I recommend time in rather than time out. If a 65 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 4: child's having a hard time, it's because they don't know 66 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 4: how to deal. 67 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 3: With the emotions that they're feeling. 68 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 4: They don't know how to behave appropriately in the situation, 69 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 4: and they don't need to be left alone at that point. Now, 70 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 4: sometimes you might have a child who is losing the 71 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 4: plot and is non responsive. So a case in point 72 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 4: one of my daughters at the dinner table one night 73 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 4: a few years ago. Young child didn't want dinner, started 74 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 4: to have a great big dummy spit, you know, throwing 75 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 4: the knife and the fork on the floor. Tried to 76 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 4: get the bowl and throw that on the floor as well. 77 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 4: Rescued the bowl just before the whatever it was when 78 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: all over the tiles. But there's this moment where I 79 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 4: recognize that this behavior is not okay, and if I 80 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 4: ignore it, it's only going to get worse. So I picked 81 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 4: her up and I tried to give her a hug. 82 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 4: And you know what todd was like when you try 83 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 4: to give them hug. Oh yeah, she was fighting. She 84 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 4: was trying to punch me in the head and all 85 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 4: sorts of things. Pretty funny actually, because no matter how 86 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 4: hard they punch you when they're toddlers, that it doesn't 87 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 4: hurt hit me again, that's the only time that you'd 88 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 4: ever say that, you know. But I took her out 89 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 4: of the room and I tried to hug her, and 90 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 4: I tried to have some time in with her. 91 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 3: She didn't want that. 92 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: So at that point you might say, well, just ignore 93 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: her and let her calm down. Again, I don't think 94 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 4: ignoring is exactly the right thing, so because ignoring feels 95 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 4: like a punishment. Ignoring feels like you're doing something to 96 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 4: that child to make them pay a price for their 97 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 4: bad behavior. And I don't like making kids suffer, at 98 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 4: least not in a punishment kind of way. I mean, 99 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 4: if they well, So I said to her, I can 100 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 4: stay with you because you're having a hard time, or 101 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 4: I can leave if you'd rather be on your own. 102 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 3: So there's a there's a degree of choice here for 103 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 3: this two or three year old. 104 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: And she's not ignoring. 105 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 3: That's acknowledging exactly. And so she screamed at me. She 106 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 3: said something like. 107 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: Articulately. 108 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 4: She told me to go away, out because what she 109 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 4: was saying. And I said, I get the feeling that 110 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 4: you're telling me to go away. I can go away 111 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 4: if you want, but I'd really like to give you 112 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 4: a cuddle. And she screamed at me again. I said, okay, 113 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 4: you don't want me near you, so I'm just going 114 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 4: to wait over here by the door. 115 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 3: And so I walked over the door, and she screamed 116 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: at me again. 117 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 4: I said, based on what you're saying to me, I 118 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 4: feel like you'd rather me just leave you alone. So 119 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 4: as soon as you're ready for a cuddle, and as 120 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 4: soon as you're ready to sit with us quietly and peacefully, 121 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 4: I'd love for you to come and let me know. 122 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 4: So at no point am I ignoring her. At no 123 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 4: point am I giving her a time out. I'm letting 124 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 4: her know that I get how she feels. She's upset, 125 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 4: she's feeling horrible. Give us some space, but she's welcomed 126 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 4: back as soon as she's willing to play by the rules. 127 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I stepped out of the room. 128 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 4: And as I stepped out, I turned around one more 129 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 4: time and I said, just before I go, you're sure 130 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 4: you don't want to cuddle. And at that point she 131 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 4: ran to me with arms open and she wanted a 132 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 4: big hug. And I said, would you like to come 133 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 4: and join us for dinner now? 134 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: And she said yes, and we sat down and we 135 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 3: had a peaceful dinner. Now you can do that sort 136 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 3: of thing. 137 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 4: There's been a couple of times where I've said, would 138 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 4: you like a cudle now and they've screamed at me again. 139 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:56,679 Speaker 3: So I've walked out of the room. 140 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 4: Waited outside the room for thirty seconds, and then opened 141 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 4: the door and said, I just thought I'd come back 142 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 4: one more time and see if you want a hug, 143 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 4: and they usually come to me. Then they just need 144 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 4: that little bit of space, but not as a punishment, 145 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 4: just as a bit of space. And it doesn't matter 146 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 4: whether the child is two or twenty two or anywhere 147 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 4: in between. Ignoring them just makes them feel invalidated, makes 148 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 4: them feel unworthy, makes them feel like they don't matter, 149 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 4: and their opinions and their worldview is irrelevant. 150 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 2: So often the logic though, is if their behavior, if 151 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 2: their tantrum is deemed to be just attention seeking, then 152 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: that's when we should ignore them, which which both which 153 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: makes sense. 154 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 4: Well, if they want attention, give them attention. 155 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: It's quite the interesting because I can understand negative attention 156 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: like negative behavior. So this is the theory. If they 157 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: negative behavior, then you get my attention. I'm reinforcing doing 158 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: negative behavior. It's getting the attention when there's good behavior. 159 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 4: So this comes out of the nineteen sixties nineteen seventies. 160 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: A psychologist called B. F. Skinner. 161 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 4: He used to do experiments with pigeons and with rats, 162 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 4: and he would offer reinforcement or punishment to get them 163 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 4: to behave in certain ways. And the argument of psychologists was, 164 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 4: if you respond positively to negative behavior, you're going to 165 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 4: reinforce negative behavior. Now I can tell you that the 166 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 4: research does not that the current research does not necessarily 167 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 4: support that view. How do I say okay? 168 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 3: Form follows feelings. 169 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,679 Speaker 4: Our children's behavior is a direct response to the feelings 170 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: that are inside them. So when we respond to a 171 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 4: child's challenging behavior, we're not reinforcing the behavior. We're responding 172 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 4: to the feelings that underpin the behavior. In other words, 173 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 4: a child's behaving in a bad way because they're having 174 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 4: a hard time. They're feeling horrible. So we don't respond 175 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 4: to the behavior, we respond to the feelings. We say, 176 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 4: you're having such a hard time this morning. You just 177 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 4: don't feel like getting out of bed and getting on 178 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 4: with the day. You'd rather not go to school because 179 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 4: you feel awful today, or you feel lonely, or you 180 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 4: feel isolated at school, or you. 181 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: Feel this and this. 182 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 4: The behavior is irrelevant, it's the feelings that underpin it. 183 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 4: That matter, and when we ignore the behavior, we all 184 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 4: so ignore the feelings, and that's where kids start to 185 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 4: have self esteem issues. That's where kids start to struggle 186 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,119 Speaker 4: with resilience because we feel like we don't. They feel 187 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 4: like we don't care about them, not their behavior. They 188 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 4: feel like we don't care about their feelings, which means 189 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 4: we don't care about them. 190 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: I love that, and I can see the logic of it. 191 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's funny because I mean, it makes sense 192 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: because for years I've always thought that On the one hand, 193 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: it logically makes sense to don't reinforce the negative behavior. 194 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: On the other hand, it was the least sensical thing 195 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: I've ever I've ever heard, because if they want attention, 196 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: then then surely as a parent, my job is they're 197 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 2: deprived of something, and if attentions it, I can give 198 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: them that. 199 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 3: You know what I call ADD. 200 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 4: Everyone's been bang on about ADD for a couple of 201 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 4: decades now. Attention deficit disorder. I call it something different. 202 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 4: I call it adult deficit disorder. The kids, the kids 203 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 4: aren't getting enough of us, and that's why they're playing up. 204 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: It's incredible what happens. It doesn't matter. 205 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 4: I mean, you think about the times where your children 206 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 4: have been having a hard time and you've stopped what 207 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 4: you've done, You've looked them in the eye. Guys, you've 208 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 4: listened to them, and you've spent two minutes or twenty 209 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 4: seconds with them in that moment. Do they turn around 210 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 4: and say, I'm just going to keep on behaving like 211 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 4: a bullfead because I can like? 212 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: They don't. 213 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 4: They They calm down, they respond, they feel understood, and 214 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 4: we get rid of the challenging behavior. But when we 215 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 4: ignore them, or when we get angry at them, we 216 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 4: just blow it up and make it worse. 217 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: What happens If they're just being playing annoying, just can 218 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: we ignore them? 219 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 4: Then? 220 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 3: What do you do with Susie? You've been playing? 221 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: No, I lock her in a room? 222 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 4: Client, Yes, I've been waiting for this. 223 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 3: May I have some dinner? 224 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: Quite frankly, if Susan's been annoying, I take everybody out. 225 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 2: We leave her here, we'll come back. We'll come back 226 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: when you ad a good thing about your actions, Susie. 227 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 4: He says, I should behave like that's causing the behavior, 228 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 4: that's for sure. 229 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: Dr Justin Kilson, thank you so so m for addressing 230 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: that question. That's been bugging in my head for. 231 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 3: A little while. 232 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 4: I really appreciate it. 233 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 3: That's a pleasure. 234 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: And of course there are loads of resources available, lots 235 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 1: of information, books, podcasts, and programs. You can find them 236 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: all that happyfamilies dot com dot au. But if listening 237 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: to doctor Justin Coulson makes you think that people in 238 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: your organization or school could benefit from hearing him as well, 239 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: you can find out how to have Justin speak for 240 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: your school or organization at Justincoulson dot com.