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Speaker 1: Mama always always, sir, be careful love.

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Speaker 2: Those umboo let we'll use your head. They will tear

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Speaker 2: you lack a paper talk. Oh no, no, no, yeah,

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Speaker 2: yeah yeah yeah, oh no, no no.

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Remy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to It's layer.

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Speaker 1: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago when we were in high school.

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Speaker 2: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything

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Speaker 2: and everything else under the sun.

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Speaker 1: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: And we're back back like a not a bad rush,

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Speaker 2: but like we're back. Oh that sounds so tame. Now

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Speaker 2: I'm back. You can say a bad rash.

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Speaker 1: It's okay, Okay, we're back like a bad rash season.

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Speaker 2: Paul can't believe it, but we here.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm joking.

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Speaker 2: How are you since we I'm spoke? Good damn good?

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Speaker 2: How are you good? Someone just had a birthday? Oh yes,

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Speaker 2: thirty five, thirty fifth flow as they say? Is that?

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Speaker 1: What theasy?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Then he stopped counting.

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Speaker 1: How does it feel? Can you believe? Amanda?

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Speaker 2: Where we at? Like I'm literally just like I feel

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Speaker 2: like sometimes I'm I'm not. I'm not fifteen. I feel

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Speaker 2: like I'm twenty three yea, but I know I'm not. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The body then tells you like, oh, can't get that low. No,

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Speaker 2: mo girl, the knees, the needs, No, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I make your knees. That's me A long time ago,

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Speaker 2: A long time. The cartilage be crackling. It's like, how

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Speaker 2: are you, my love? How's everything going?

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Speaker 1: Looking choking over cantidage. I am good. Autumn is in

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Speaker 1: full effect, hence polo necks, but good like settling back

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Speaker 1: into life routine. Yeah, a lot has happened, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good. Just out here trying to survive,

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Speaker 1: trying to arrive. But we going to be talking about today.

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Speaker 2: We're just starting from the beginning, but like just hitting

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Speaker 2: right in colonial listen like leading people gently. We're just

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Speaker 2: like Lizzie died. We talk about this, no time to breathe,

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Speaker 2: We're just gonna step over with such a choking from

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Speaker 2: the thanks son he yo yo.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, colonialism. I feel like I talk about this almost

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Speaker 1: every week without fail, Like it comes up in conversation

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Speaker 1: almost every week. I don't know about other people who

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Speaker 1: come from colonized countries, but it be a topic of

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Speaker 1: conversation because yeah, every you know, what's his name, Kenny Embarrassed,

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Speaker 1: you know Blackish, the Blackish creator, writer, whatever. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: always talks about slavery. Everything goes back to slavery. For me,

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Speaker 1: everything always goes back to colonialism. I'm always girl that's

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Speaker 1: the origin story. Like it literally is, like unfortunately it

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Speaker 1: really really is. Yeah, So to begin with, when did

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Speaker 1: you even realize that colonization colonialism existed, Like when did

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Speaker 1: it actually register?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it actually like ever, like obviously

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Speaker 2: there's a time it did register, like this happened. But

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Speaker 2: I think because you grow up as a colony, is

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Speaker 2: as part of your history, so it was like I

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Speaker 2: don't think I even I can't even remember a time

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Speaker 2: when it was before. It was just like always from

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Speaker 2: the beginning, like as I was learning that I come

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Speaker 2: from Zimbabwe, I was I was learning whatever I was

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Speaker 2: learning as I was growing up three, four or five

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Speaker 2: years old. It is part of the story. And even

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Speaker 2: if you look at the way we like, you know,

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Speaker 2: eat our meals or the choices of foods or whatever

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Speaker 2: it is that we have that I integral to our

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Speaker 2: daily life. It's tied in with that. So I think

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Speaker 2: it just was just like, oh, yeah, you're a British

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Speaker 2: colony and it's just something you just knew from the

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Speaker 2: get go. I never I don't think at a moment

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Speaker 2: where I was like aha. I was just like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know this is this is the way it is.

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Speaker 2: It's about for you.

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Speaker 1: It's so normalized as you put it, like it's so

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Speaker 1: normalized you actually didn't don't realize like I actually hold up,

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Speaker 1: hold up, wait a minute. I think a distinct memory

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Speaker 1: I have where it really hit me. There was a

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Speaker 1: time we were traveling I think to Chinoy with my parents.

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Speaker 1: I think it was high school. If not, it was

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Speaker 1: late primary school and they were explaining some history of

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Speaker 1: the region and they're like, oh don't you know this information?

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Speaker 1: I'm a dizzier or didn't you learn this at school?

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Speaker 1: I was like how sway, Like when were we going

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Speaker 1: to learn this? And then like didn't you do Zimbabwean?

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Speaker 1: Like my parents were like, didn't you do Zimbabwe in

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Speaker 1: history at school? And I was like nah, be So

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Speaker 1: it was definitely high school. We're doing European history, we did,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the American Revolution, French Revolution, Cold War,

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Speaker 1: First and Second World War, like that's what we did.

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Speaker 1: And my parents were like literally dumbfounded. They were like,

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Speaker 1: how can you not learn this? Then I really realized, like,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, a part, a portion of my history

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Speaker 1: has been eraised for me. Literally, yeah, literally, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's where it was a real like wake

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Speaker 1: up call of how colonization really works, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like you thought like you thought, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is the way it is. Then you realize this,

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Speaker 2: like this whole other history, yeah, that we're not really taught,

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Speaker 2: like especially going to a schools, which we've talked about before.

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Speaker 2: I think we've covered in a previous episode about how

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Speaker 2: now even learning learn our history from these private schools,

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Speaker 2: they don't tend to want to focus on you know,

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Speaker 2: this very checkered pastor. And yeah, I think that's actually

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Speaker 2: quite a good point that in schools you just don't, yeah,

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Speaker 2: find out about it from anywhere else.

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Speaker 1: It's like how in America, I believe in some schools

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Speaker 1: when they talk about slavery, there was somewhere I read

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Speaker 1: there were like some volunteer work someone used like they

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Speaker 1: use that term for children about slaves.

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Speaker 2: I was like wait, what hold up?

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Speaker 1: Something crazy in one of those crazy states. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those where you really realize how deep

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Speaker 1: it is. And for you, how would you describe I

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Speaker 1: think we're already touching a little bit on the effect

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Speaker 1: of colonization colonialism in our lives, Like how do you

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Speaker 1: how would you describe the effects for people who don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think you said it best. It's tied into everything

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Speaker 2: we do. Like the effect is like I can't imagine

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Speaker 2: life without it because life comes with it. Like it's

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Speaker 2: just like from Zimbabwe, there's no way you can deny it.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much put our whole history and our whole way

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Speaker 2: of life on a different course, a different paths. Yes,

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Speaker 2: most so, I think, especially for like African cultures, because

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Speaker 2: the way we live in the Western world is so

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Speaker 2: different from like how our great great great great great

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Speaker 2: great great great grandfathers and mothers live, you know. So

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Speaker 2: I think like its effect is just it's so obvious,

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Speaker 2: it's tangible. You know that this is because of colonialism.

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Speaker 2: You know, I speak English because of colonialism, you know.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, do I go to church

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Speaker 2: like in a Christian setup because of you know, missionaries

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Speaker 2: coming through. So it's like all these things that it

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Speaker 2: is just like undeniably, it's intricate in the way we.

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Speaker 1: Lie your identity as all, isn't it crazy? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: literally defines who you are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's insane. Yeah, Like personally, even on a personal level,

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Speaker 2: I think of it as I'm yeah, I was colonized

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Speaker 2: by the British. And it is because if someone says, oh,

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Speaker 2: I thought you're from the UK, I'm like, tracks, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like it's like, yeah, it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: You know, you wouldn't think I'm from a Francophone country.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure people who come from Francophone countries the

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Speaker 2: French way of living and they'd probably be like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know since that year. Yeah, it's just on a

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Speaker 2: personal level.

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Speaker 1: That's why when you speak to someone like a Zimbabwean,

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Speaker 1: a Jamaican, like we can have like some levels of

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Speaker 1: like understanding or for sure because of who colonized us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's like unspoken.

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Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Is it the same for you totally?

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Speaker 1: And I've said this before on previous episodes, it's actually

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Speaker 1: affected like my whole being in this country doing the

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Speaker 1: job and the work I do. It's because of colonial

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Speaker 1: If I did not speak English, I would not be

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Speaker 1: doing this job and I would not be here. So

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Speaker 1: it's literally defined the trajectory of my life. I even

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Speaker 1: see it at work, like you know, when discussing certain

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Speaker 1: ways of doing things from you know, in a British

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Speaker 1: school system. I can relate to my other colleague who

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Speaker 1: had similar because it's the same way, and it's like

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Speaker 1: flip man. It really tracks across like across across like

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Speaker 1: they it's kept across the way pah. It's such an

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Speaker 1: integral part of my life.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine life without it? Though I can't.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I wouldn't be who I am now

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Speaker 1: if I didn't have it, which is sad to say,

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Speaker 1: but also reality. It's like I'll be, of course a

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Speaker 1: different version of who I am, but it's such an

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Speaker 1: like I read books in English, I watch films in English,

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Speaker 1: I dress a certain way. I appreciate high tea, thank you, Britz,

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Speaker 1: I love me in English, breakfast, thank you again?

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Speaker 2: And you know I.

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Speaker 1: In the small and the large, it's such a part

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Speaker 1: of me. I can't say I can imagine life. I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you.

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Speaker 2: If you if you feel different. I think also it's

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Speaker 2: quite unfair because we've never lived life without it. Yes,

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Speaker 2: So I don't know if maybe for grandparents maybe maybe

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Speaker 2: e from four parents there would be that cusp maybe,

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Speaker 2: But even then, I think missionaries came through, not that

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Speaker 2: I was colonalism and such, but they came through quite

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Speaker 2: a while ago. So even thinking of a way of

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Speaker 2: life before is not so tangible anymore. So it's like

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Speaker 2: I'm nothing to compare to, right, this is just life

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Speaker 2: as I.

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Speaker 1: Know it, complete, and I think, to be fair, I

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Speaker 1: do think missionaries were the first colonizers. They just came

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Speaker 1: trying to be friending us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, came with that Bible. They were like, yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: exactly who told you it was wrong?

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Speaker 1: Don't even get me started on religion as a means

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Speaker 1: to control because.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, totally we need to put a pin in

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Speaker 2: that one. And yeah, religion in its own episode because

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Speaker 2: and then definitely tie this back in because that is

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Speaker 2: undeniable that, yeah, our way of life again was changed

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Speaker 2: by something that essentially was not for our people. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And what what do you think have been the major

201
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Speaker 1: drawbacks for you of colonization and being colonized how has

202
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Speaker 1: it affected your life? Maybe in a negative way.

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Speaker 2: I think for me it's been an identity crisis. I'm

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Speaker 2: not English, but am I Zimbabwean? You know, like and

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Speaker 2: then people can really like look at it superficially and

206
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Speaker 2: be like, oh what but what is zimbabwe you know?

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Speaker 2: But what is Yeah? Okay, cool? But if my great

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Speaker 2: great great granddad was to come down and see me,

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Speaker 2: would you recognize me? You know, would you I know

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Speaker 2: nothing about my culture on a deeper level, you know,

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Speaker 2: especially because unfortunately for African history, and we are these

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Speaker 2: beautiful drawings of like in caves and stuff, but there's

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Speaker 2: nothing actually documented, which is you know, obviously we didn't

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Speaker 2: really have like reading, like literature as a thing. So

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Speaker 2: it almost feels like I've got no way to really

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Speaker 2: know if I'm being authentically Zimbabwean, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I'm the Zimbabwean now, authenticity Zimbabwian as Zimbabweans are now today.

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Speaker 2: But I would never know what I could have been

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Speaker 2: like wearing a loin cloth, you know, living my life simple,

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Speaker 2: no bills, like you know what I mean, Like just

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Speaker 2: I'm simplifying it, but I'm just trying to say, like

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Speaker 2: I will never ever know, we've also been sold and

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Speaker 2: maybe I'm going to tangent a dream of it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a good way to live. But it's like, who told

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Speaker 2: you that that my great great grandma wasn't happy in

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Speaker 2: a loin cloth with a kid on a bag and

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Speaker 2: you know, like gather, Yeah, waiting for a hunter gatherer

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Speaker 2: husband to come home. Who told you that their home

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Speaker 2: wasn't a beautiful, peaceful space? You know that they were

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Speaker 2: living well with nature, that animals weren't like no, who

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Speaker 2: Like It's like it's like, oh, yeah, we came through

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Speaker 2: and we fixed up your life and it made it better.

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Speaker 2: But it's like, who is Yeah exactly. So I think

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Speaker 2: that's been the major drawback from not having the gift

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Speaker 2: of choice. Yes, you know, you just thrust into this

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Speaker 2: and live with it. Yeah you know. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: it's like, uh, but yeah, why why should I have to?

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Speaker 2: These are not my people, It's not my way of

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Speaker 2: I can't trace back my culture to two hundred years

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Speaker 2: ago like you guys, can, you know, because you stole

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Speaker 2: that away from us. Yeah, it's literally, and then it

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Speaker 2: made us carb and copies, but then you don't really

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Speaker 2: accept us in your world. Yes, it's like, ah, y'all

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Speaker 2: make the English, make the English. Why y'all came uninvited?

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Speaker 2: Nobody acts.

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Speaker 1: She didn't knock and say please.

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Speaker 2: Can you come?

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Speaker 1: And you just came And then for us you're like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: you needed this, you needed that. You best be grateful.

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Speaker 2: You're having these uh huh preach, yeah, testify, and then

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Speaker 2: you're still not enough. And then even if I do

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Speaker 2: every even were a freaking top hat, yes, and start

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Speaker 2: calling myself the duchess, I will never be one, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like, oh, and you notice

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Speaker 2: it a lot with Megan makl and like, I know

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Speaker 2: that whole people have opinions about that, but she's American,

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Speaker 2: which even makes it, you know. But it's like even

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Speaker 2: then they won't exit, like she can be as refined

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Speaker 2: as refined, Yeah, she'll never be. So it's like, so

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Speaker 2: why did you even start? Why did you even come

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Speaker 2: and try to change me? Then? And it's not interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's been quite interesting. I don't know what your experience

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Speaker 1: has been meeting when I meet Brits, especially in spaces

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Speaker 1: outside of Zimbabwe Africa, like white spaces, and the curiosity

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Speaker 1: and the way people look at you. And my sister

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Speaker 1: when she was here, we had an encounter and she

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Speaker 1: she expressed this too. There's this kind of like pondering

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Speaker 1: like hmm, you how did.

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Speaker 2: You get here? And why you?

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Speaker 1: How come you live this life you live? And then

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Speaker 1: it's obviously the question, so where are you from? And

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Speaker 1: then when you say, it's like okay, so you're You're

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Speaker 1: still you will never be good enough. There's always like

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Speaker 1: a condescending It's hard if you know, you know and

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Speaker 1: you've experienced it, like you understand what I'm saying. There's

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Speaker 1: always always this condescending thing of our shame. You people

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Speaker 1: come from this poor country, even though they don't realize

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Speaker 1: that colonization did a huge number on us or they know,

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Speaker 1: but it's kind of like, but you always you are

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Speaker 1: beneath me. You will never be equal to me, even

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Speaker 1: though you know you came and put on your culture

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Speaker 1: onto us, which is like your minds, just how is

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Speaker 1: this normal? For sure? For sure?

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Speaker 2: And you'll never be the right kind of black anyway,

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Speaker 2: because there's no such things, you know, even though they

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Speaker 2: make that seem even if I'm top tier, yes it

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Speaker 2: will still be. But you're not me. You're not exactly,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it's like, uh, but I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be you. You guys are this upon us and

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Speaker 2: now you're surprised that we're not, Like you don't want

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Speaker 2: to accept us either, like where we meant to belong?

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Speaker 2: So that's why the identity crisis for me comes into play,

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Speaker 2: because it's like where do I fit in? Like, ye, seriously,

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Speaker 2: where do I fit in?

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Speaker 1: And for me too, it's also this notion of white

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Speaker 1: is right and the closest in whiteness. We had it

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Speaker 1: at school, right, like if you've spoken a certain accent,

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Speaker 1: oh you are gash, meaning like like you know, unrefined

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Speaker 1: people laughing at you. The more poise, the more anglicized white,

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Speaker 1: the further away from African and Black you were, the

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Speaker 1: better you were. And it's so ingrained in culture, even

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Speaker 1: in service, like how someone will see a white person

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Speaker 1: and treat them so much better than their fellow black person.

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Speaker 1: How as a black person you have to prove yourself

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Speaker 1: in work in spaces like it's so layered and it

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Speaker 1: bleeds into so many facets of life, and it's like.

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Speaker 2: So and it takes a second to realize that, right.

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Speaker 2: I think that's also the thing for me, the mind

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Speaker 2: f around it is it's like you don't even think

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Speaker 2: about like what you just said, if you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: because you're like, okay, now we'll take a step back.

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Speaker 2: I can see. But if you look at on surface level,

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Speaker 2: you just think all that's life, you know. Simple. We're

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Speaker 2: very flippant about it, because it's almost if you start

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Speaker 2: to dig, you literally are left exposed, like okay, so

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Speaker 2: who am I? What am I doing? Yeah, like you know,

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Speaker 2: because it's like it leaves you vulnerable and role because

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Speaker 2: it really is like, okay, but why did you even

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Speaker 2: start out with this whole thing? If you if your

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Speaker 2: mission wasn't to obliterate us, like to look ability destroy

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Speaker 2: us and you know, nullify us and you never existed.

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Speaker 2: You want us to live alongside you. But in this

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Speaker 2: tear system. So it's almost like from the beginning it

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Speaker 2: was it was rigged.

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Speaker 1: The system was fail set to from from jump from jump.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we gotta, you know, be sort of

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Speaker 1: look at both sides of the coin, as it were

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Speaker 1: any benefits for you of colonization or being colonized. Even

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Speaker 1: the word benefits sounds a bit too, I know, but.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so and I, you know, the only one,

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Speaker 2: and this is so superficial and so a capitalist I

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Speaker 2: suppose of me is being able to speak English. I

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Speaker 2: think obviously our world is much more global now and

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Speaker 2: we look to America for a lot of things, even

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Speaker 2: if it's that comes to you, like you know, entertainment whenever.

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Speaker 2: And then when you meet like you know, even soccer

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Speaker 2: stars or musicians who don't speak English and they have

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Speaker 2: to quickly learn because obviously they're going to lose that market.

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Speaker 2: And how people will sing a Beyonce song but they

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Speaker 2: can't actually speak English like it shows you that okay,

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Speaker 2: English is quite it. It infiltrates in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's the only thing where I'm like

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Speaker 2: when people see me now, like in Australia, oh, what

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Speaker 2: did you learn your English? Oh, which is very ignorant,

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Speaker 2: but at the same time it's age exactly. But it

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Speaker 2: obviously shows that there's a difference. And obviously we spoke

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Speaker 2: about us before. In Australia, there's a lot of different

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Speaker 2: people from different spaces, and you have obviously a big

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Speaker 2: refuge section in our community. Obviously they have to come

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Speaker 2: here and learn all the ways to be within the

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Speaker 2: Australian way of life, and obviously the biggest thing is language. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and it's an advantage to me that you know, I

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Speaker 2: can move in these spaces because and I can also

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Speaker 2: play the game because you taught me how to play

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Speaker 2: the game and I'm a player. When it comes to networking, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: It comes to networking, comes to you know, making sure

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Speaker 2: you do things a certain way, quote unquote. It's because

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Speaker 2: of colonization, you know, it's because you're taught from when

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Speaker 2: you're a young child. This is how you serve tea,

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Speaker 2: this is how you do this, this is how you

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Speaker 2: do that, and you follow that way. And because that

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Speaker 2: way is not become dominant, it's beneficial that you learn it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, but I mean for sure, like at school,

364
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 1: we learned etiquette like things like that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yes, how about that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I remember basically like why do I

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Speaker 1: got a flower range? Like in my head's like but

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Speaker 1: it plays off because for example, again when my sister

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Speaker 1: was here, we went to watch the opera with her

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Speaker 1: and my husband and the stairs people are looking at

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Speaker 1: you like what is this? This is a very cultured space.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing here? And also like it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're cultured like as well, so learning that culture and

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Speaker 1: people then fearing you less, which is a very sad

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Speaker 1: thing to say, but the parity you're palatable, there's less

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Speaker 1: fears kind of like okay, we can f with you.

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Speaker 1: That I think is kind of like the benefit, which

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00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 1: is twisted and warped, but it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's it's only beneficial because it's allowing you

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Speaker 2: to be in spaces that they'll usually close the doors

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Speaker 2: on you. So it's someone like yeah, it's like yes,

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Speaker 2: I said, it's very capitalist because it's like it's only

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Speaker 2: because you want to make money, you want to get

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Speaker 2: a better job, but you want to know that it

385
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 2: becomes a benefit. But actually from a personal identity, yes, interview,

386
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Speaker 2: why I should have to align myself with that way

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Speaker 2: of life to feel included.

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Speaker 1: And I think it would be different if the option

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Speaker 1: to be like not to colonized, to learn English was

390
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Speaker 1: given to you, as opposed to it being given you

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Speaker 1: have to the option to because then it's like yes,

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Speaker 1: then you feel like it's my choice, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: optionally being entering these spaces but I speak English. And

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Speaker 1: this is what trips people up being here as a

395
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Speaker 1: native English speakers like, no, but you're from some moments like, yes,

396
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Speaker 1: I grew up all my life speaking this language, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's such a difficult thing for people to grasp,

398
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: but it's such an integral part. So I benefited from

399
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 1: that as much as it was put on me, if

400
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: that makes sense.

401
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, for sure, you've played the game. That's

402
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 2: essentially it exactly. You've realized it's a game to be played.

403
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: And then you think, would I be able to travel

404
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: the way I've traveled? Would I have met my husband

405
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: if I had? Would I There's so many things, and

406
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: you don't. You're like, oh, I wouldn't want that. So

407
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: those are benefits, but in a very twisted way, it's

408
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 1: kind of.

409
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's beneficial at the cost of self. Yes, almost,

410
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 2: you know, and you don't realize it in the beginning.

411
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Speaker 2: You just think, oh, yeah, I'm moving up the ladder,

412
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Speaker 2: I'm doing this thing.

413
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: But it's almost like Stockholm syndrome, right, like the oppress. Yes,

414
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: they were taking care of me. They were you know, yeah,

415
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: the good black again, you know, right kind of all right,

416
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Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts.

417
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 2: On Theritish monarchy? Obviously we've already mentioned Megan and keep

418
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: bring up Lizzie since Sorry sorry, not sorry, sorry, I

419
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: am sorry, I am sorry because yeah that was you

420
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: know what? Okay, sorry, I asked you the question. Please

421
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 2: let me know.

422
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: Look, it's complicated. They make for great entertainment, oh say that,

423
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, like and I think they know. That's why

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00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: the British monarchy still exists because they create relevance for

425
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: the British non empire now right, because the England was

426
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: a huge empire and it's subsequently gotten smaller and smaller.

427
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: So I think it creates relevance for them and tourism,

428
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: tourism for them. I think it helps uphold this idea

429
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: that English is the best way, the monarchy is the

430
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: best way. It helps uphold classism, It helps, you know,

431
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: uphold a lot of these constructs. I think it's a

432
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: very complicated system. It seems very sort of shady, not shady,

433
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: shady is not the word, but like suspect just because

434
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: of the stories.

435
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: That come up.

436
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: We saw with Princess Diana, We've seen with Megan Markel

437
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: and then what's this, what's this prince guy who ran away?

438
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: Epstein's homie. Oh, Andrew, Prince Andrew, like, you know, nepotism

439
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: at its finest. I think it's shown us that I

440
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: think the Queen's passing like what people don't understand. You're like,

441
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: you're not dancing because someone is dead. Don't get us wrong,

442
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: but you really like how you go to make me

443
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: cry over somebody who erased a huge part of my

444
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: history and culture or at least represents the ideas of

445
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: colonization and the rasure of culture that is none you know, Western.

446
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: And I think the discussion and this almost like oh,

447
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: forget past transgressions and be sympathetic is not afforded to us.

448
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: But we must afford. This is the thing. Okay, this

449
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: is the thing.

450
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: Yes, go there on me.

451
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: This is the thing about being oppressed.

452
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: It behooves me.

453
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: It really mind boggles me how we are supposed to

454
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: be understanding and sort of you know, and grateful, grateful, gracious,

455
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, I know. Michelle, our first Lady of America,

456
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: Michelle Obama said, when they go low, we go high.

457
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 2: But why we always gotta go hi? Why are we the.

458
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: Ones as the previously oppressed enslaved, you know, colonized, having

459
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: to be the bigger, the bigger person. But when we

460
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: complain about things like, oh that happened long ago, you

461
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: guys need to get over it, y'all get over it.

462
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: Lizzie's dead.

463
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you know, and we didn't the whole week.

464
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: Can we just be.

465
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: People's appointments were canceled bright doctor.

466
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: Bra b for Lizzie. The thing is okay, Now this

467
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: is what gets me touched because Australia's obviously cousins. We

468
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 2: the So now we actually had a public holiday like

469
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: to mourn Adam and we're like broh, not like people

470
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: are closing their business because they kn't afford to a

471
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: public holiday like thrust upon them. Yes, And then the

472
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: funny thing is First Nations people in Australia have been

473
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: campaigning that Australia Day is actually a hurtful day. The

474
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: day that we celebrate Australia Day is a day that

475
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: marks when Thomas Cook and his homies came here and

476
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: took over. So they're like, can you just change the date?

477
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: Like I understand, now we can't keep you know, talking

478
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: about the past. Now Australia Days celebrating being Australian today.

479
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: So we understand that, but now can we change the date,

480
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: so it's not reminding us of those atrocities, but it's

481
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 2: also the same time, not like, you know, just a

482
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: random day. We can just celebrate being Australian, I know,

483
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 2: just going back and forth and obviously there's been no change.

484
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, Lizzie dies probably Holiday on Thursday.

485
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, so's that quick? Exactly? Holiday? Is that easy? Yeah?

486
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: But when people are telling you that this date hurts them,

487
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 2: it's just it's just a day. Don't worry about it. Yes, no,

488
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: but I'm telling you it literally hurts me. I'm telling you,

489
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 2: I get the sentiment, but do it on a different day,

490
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: not the day that literally you guys arrived and eraised

491
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: the people like He's like yeah, yeah, yeah, So I

492
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 2: think what what surprised me when she died was how

493
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: people live with blinkers on, like people. Some people were

494
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: shocked that not everyone was sad. It was like no,

495
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,479
Speaker 2: but do you get why? You know what I mean?

496
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: Like the fact like people were like, oh, you're just

497
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: being mean, and it's like no, no, no, do you

498
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: see as you've just so eloquently put do you see

499
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: why this person is a figure here? It's a double

500
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: for something else that's not so pleasant to talk about,

501
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 2: you know, even her own jewels that you guys are

502
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: putting in parading for everyone to come and see you

503
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: Buckingham Palace. Those jewels aren't from England. Y'all don't got minds.

504
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: Give us our jewels back, you know, like it's just

505
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: like and like it's just like, okay, but everything, and

506
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: you call them gifts like no, no, sweetie, they were not.

507
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: You didn't go, No one came, be honest and sorry.

508
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: So you actually bring up another point, which is my

509
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: issue when I frequent museums galleries in this part of

510
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: the world, I'm like, why y'all got so many Egyptian

511
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: things here? Let me explain. Did you ask for them

512
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: or you took them?

513
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: Right?

514
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, it's the same concept y'all just took and there.

515
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: Now I'm making money and culture and history what from

516
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: something that.

517
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: Was not yours in the first yours? And then you're

518
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: also spinning it like, oh, you guys can't take care

519
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: of it for years.

520
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: It's like who said said exactly? Yeah, That's why I

521
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: understand Michael B. Jordan's character at the beginning of Black Panther.

522
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 1: The first installment when they went and robbed from that thing.

523
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: Because it's also like, bro, it ain't even yours to

524
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: be good to begin with.

525
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: So it's going back to when we rightfully belongs. Yeah,

526
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: I mean we've obviously touched on this as well, like

527
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: do you feel that it did play significant role in

528
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 2: the erasure of Zimbabwean culture in particular and traditions?

529
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: Replied, And I think Zimbabweans we took it and ran

530
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: with it because when I compare with zimbabwere and South Africa,

531
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: South Africa has really managed to maintain a lot of

532
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: its culture. I mean it's a very big country, very rich,

533
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: rich culture. But we really were like, oh, I am

534
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: running with it. Think about this, right, a tradition such

535
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: as urorra. We've spoken about this. What does the guy

536
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: weaar to the aurora when the negotiations are happening, what

537
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: does he suppose to it?

538
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: A suit jacket?

539
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: What does that have to do with Zimbabwean culture? A

540
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: suit jacket? Where do suits come from?

541
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: Then they show as hell and are not Zimbabwe? Do

542
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: you get what I mean?

543
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: So we even the notion of a white wedding, yes,

544
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: really exactly, Really, we really took it ran with the patriarchy.

545
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: We just love as some of that patriarchy. We really

546
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: were like, we're gonna take that. That's that's what we

547
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: can take, and we're gonna run with it, and we're

548
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: going to escalate it even more.

549
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, just so classism, social social constructs of you know,

550
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: the rich the poor. It's yeah, I know, you're you're

551
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 2: actually pretty right. And also the familiarity. I feel like

552
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: someone will be more familiar with the way the British

553
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: people run their lives the way whereas if you said, okay,

554
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: let's live. If today we decreed let's go and live

555
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: like our great great great four fathers lived, people would

556
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: be like, ah, what was that again? Yeah, you know what,

557
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: we have not kept in touch with anything, like we

558
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: pick and choose what we like. We we we know,

559
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: we all we align it to kind of come still

560
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: under that umbrella of the British way of life. Yes,

561
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: you know, there's so many Zimbabweans in the UK. This

562
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: is quite typical. So many Jamaicans as well. So many

563
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: people tend to go to the country where they were colonized,

564
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: you know, to look for jobs or to live there.

565
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 2: But even that hurts me because they don't offer us

566
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: easier visas. Nope, they don't offer us any benefits. So

567
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: that okay, you know you stole from my country. You

568
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: know that we are where we are because of so

569
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: many different different reasons, but particularly the fact that we

570
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: now have to conform to your way of life. Yep,

571
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,719
Speaker 2: and now you won't even help me in your country,

572
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: like you only even recognize me a white Exactly.

573
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: How many people did we grow up with at school

574
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: who had British and Zimbabwan passports? When people are running

575
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: away from farm invasions, how quickly were they able to

576
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: run over to Australia? But I couldn't quickly run over

577
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: and be like, oh times are tough. I can't find

578
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: a job.

579
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, my family doesn't have a foreign account exactly, so

580
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: I can't even get.

581
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: A visa exactly, Like like it is so blatantly in

582
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: your face and the hoops you have to jump to

583
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: prove that you are a suitable citizen or person whom

584
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: they can invite into their spaces, none threatening, law abiding

585
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: and you know, sort of the right.

586
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: Hey, yo, don't get it right, You got me started, Amanda, girl, girl,

587
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: It's actually quite like I sometimes just think very simplistic,

588
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: like what was in it for us? Like, really, what

589
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: was in it for us? Because today things you know nothing.

590
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: I mean I'm pulling the fact that I can speak

591
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: your language as a benefit, like hey, how low, how low?

592
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: How low can you go? Yeah? There is literally no

593
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: benefit to me. I'm still struggling, Like I'm even worse

594
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: off because not only am I struggling, but I've lost

595
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: my identity.

596
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: Yes, so it's like, yes, hm, we just need a

597
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: moment of sight for those listening, you can tell it.

598
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: It makes us feel a way, Yeah, I think understandably.

599
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: So absolutely, yeah, and I must admit that obviously the

600
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: death of Queen Elizabeth just brought all these things up

601
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: to the forefront, but it also brought up a lot

602
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: of discourse, Like people weren't discussing it. How does it

603
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: feel like? I live in a household with a German,

604
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: so he doesn't really get colonization. I mean they colonize

605
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: I think they colonize Namibia. And then he's just like, yeah,

606
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: but doesn't It's not like he doesn't live under that umbrella.

607
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: You know.

608
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: So for him to see me, like literally, when she

609
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: was announced, I looked at the TV and I was like, oh, okay,

610
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: what else, what else happened today? Like what else is

611
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: now part of me? My heart sank. But I was thinking, oh,

612
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: the next two weeks just just you know, people will

613
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: be dying in Yemen or Syria. I won't see anything

614
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: about that would just be seeing the especially in a

615
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: in a Commonwealth country which I live in Australia. I

616
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: knew it was just going to be click bait for

617
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: the next you know what, Megan, dude, she didn't do this,

618
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: She didn't work like that. She didn't but she didn't

619
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 2: look fly. Let's put that out there, girl. But that's

620
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 2: the thing. It's like, it just felt so disappointing that like,

621
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: he doesn't. I think people had not really considered how

622
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: it feels for us, and also even having camaraderie with

623
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 2: Indians because they also felt the same with Jamaicans, with

624
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: the Irish. Different places, Irish Irish yo.

625
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: I actually saw people doing like step dancing.

626
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 2: I don't know Irish step do, I don't know what they.

627
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: Call it, the line line dancing line in front of

628
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: the in front of Buckingham Palace.

629
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: I said, y'all have no shock, y'all gone, yeah, yeah, yeah,

630
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: we laugh, but it's we're laughing out of trauma. Brat.

631
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: Those things are dancing that line dance like a an

632
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: dancert like seriously.

633
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: And I'm scared for I don't know what kind of

634
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: King Charles is going to be. Yeah, that's a whole

635
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: other it's gonna.

636
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 2: Be a different era. Yeah, completely, Yeah, And I couldn't

637
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: relate to but we're lining up for hours and hours.

638
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: I was just like, and I actually don't even know

639
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: when she was actually buried, to be fair, which day,

640
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: I don't know where, Like I honestly didn't care. But

641
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: as you can see, it's or here. It's literally because

642
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: of what it stands for, what it means. But on

643
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: a real though, how do we as Zimbabweans, as colonized

644
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: societies and countries, how can we ensure that our culture

645
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: and traditions are not erased as a result? How do

646
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: we keep them intact? Because you see the argument, the

647
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: question will be many people have asked should roora still

648
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: be something that is practiced. Many people are like, no,

649
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: it should not be for the for the many reasons

650
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: which are difficult about roa, but that is also a tradition.

651
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, no, but I think Roora has been westernized,

652
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 2: which is that that's why the problem is the problem

653
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: because traditionally that's not how we used to do. It

654
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 2: wasn't about monetary like show me that. It was about

655
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: you know, joining two families with the little you have. Yeah,

656
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 2: you know it's okay, you don't even and even the

657
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: way especially Zimbabweans do it where you owe for as

658
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: long as you owe you so like you have to

659
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: finish everything on that one day, so to always have

660
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: that tie to that family. Right, So I find this

661
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: because we're mixing and matching, that's a problem. We're trying

662
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: to choose. We can choose and make it work, and

663
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: it's like, I think the only way to keep it

664
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: intact is Yes, obviously we shouldn't oppress people, we shouldn't

665
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: make people feel like they don't have a voice. But

666
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: at the same time, I love seeing the spin that

667
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 2: Rota in particular has had. The way we're dressing, you know,

668
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 2: a good five years ago, ten years ago, people would

669
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 2: never be called on traditional and the funny thing is

670
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: that's not even our traditional wear. But anyway, as a

671
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: competition for a different day. Yeah, but the fact that

672
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: we're wearing African or ethnic or whatever they want to

673
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: quiet materials inspired materials is a blessing. Is exciting to

674
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: see the fact that families are actually acknowledging that if

675
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: you can't afford a white wedding or don't want to

676
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: do one, that you can just do that. And that

677
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: actually stands for something, because there was a wild day

678
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: where white wedding was it, you know, was like ah,

679
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: oh yeah, by the way, you have to do that

680
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: kind of So I think the only way we can

681
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: ensure that we keep them intact is to take pride

682
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 2: and how we are will never go back to the

683
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: way our great forefathers were, but we do have to

684
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: find a space where we can be proud and not

685
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: just run with the way the British do things, but

686
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: actually take stop of who we are Zimbabweans. You know,

687
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: I love seeing all these books you shout up. Before

688
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: you know, people were writing books for Sean and Deele

689
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 2: all those things, because now we're documenting which also will help,

690
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: you know, we need to do those little steps, those

691
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: little things that and still the next generation will not

692
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: be like, oh I can speak the language even though

693
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 2: miles away, because again Zimbabweans will also spread all over

694
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: as well. Which makes it difficult for sure. I think

695
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: that's the only way I do. You reckon one.

696
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: Hundred percent documentation because I think of like the stories

697
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: my grandma used to tell us about Sunagulo or you know,

698
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: these folk tales. It literally was passed on by word

699
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: of mouth. And if we only have word of mouth,

700
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: of course, it's going to disintegrate and understanding relations even

701
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: how you call different relatives, right, you documenting that, because

702
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: it's like there's my there's this, there's this, this is me.

703
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 2: So and so, so and so.

704
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: It's so complex how we conduct certain traditions, like why.

705
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: What is that?

706
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: What is the significance of that? So many different things

707
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: that are kind of just done according to family and

708
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: fumbled over. I think to tell our stories, to write books,

709
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: to have these conversations, to in film, in education, like

710
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: in so many ways we need to maintain this. I

711
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: think we've touched on it though already. Is how being

712
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: colonized shaped you as a person.

713
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 2: No, oh, for sure, it has. It has. I think

714
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: there was a time out ad middle right here right now,

715
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: when we were younger, especially for me, where I took

716
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: pride in the British way. I took pride that I could.

717
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: I was a Salah, you know, I could speak you know,

718
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 2: good English. I could do the etiquette thing I consider

719
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: dining table. I can do this, I can do that

720
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: flower arranging. I'm dead, you know, like I yeah, like

721
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 2: you said, the fact that I took pride in things

722
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: that were not my own. Yes, flower arranging, Yes, dinner sets, Yes,

723
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: hosting a dinner or whatever it is. But at the

724
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: same time, I was disparaging of my own culture. Yes,

725
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 2: where it was like, oh no, I don't speak Seana.

726
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I pronounced this. Like when you look

727
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: at it now, you're like, wow, I needed to grow

728
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: up and I needed to understand and I needed to

729
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 2: But obviously you do it when you're a child because

730
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: you want to fit in. Yes, you know, And I

731
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: think it has shaped me as a person because now

732
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 2: I can take accountability for that that I'm making strides

733
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 2: to reconnect with even with the foods. You've talked about

734
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: this on a food episode, even with music, even with

735
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: to try you know, you look at the way Nigeria

736
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: has totally put your Attleba and Igbo and all their

737
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: languages on the forefront. Because Bernaboy is like I'm not

738
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: gonna not sing in my language, you know what I mean,

739
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: where As zimatis is a time when you want to

740
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: see in English because you want to appeal to. So

741
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,959
Speaker 2: I think we're seeing that shift happen, Whereas like we're reclaiming,

742
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: and I think as we do it on an individual

743
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: level and as a group, I think it's going to

744
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: be good for a future for sure.

745
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: And I completely relate to what you said of growing

746
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: up and thinking, you know, wanting to see more refined,

747
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: more English, and more you know, making fun of those

748
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: who are different. And I think what has helped or

749
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: what helped me was living in Ghana because they're also

750
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: very proud of their culture and seeing how they did

751
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: it differently. That taught me a lot, like growing up

752
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: and seeing that, and I think now also being confident

753
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: in my blackness. You know, I've had so many times

754
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: like being here, people questioning why do you do this?

755
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: Why is your hair like that? Or just being proud

756
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: to do it the way I want or wear my

757
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: hair in different ways and saying it's okay, or you know,

758
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: it comes into different things of who you, different parts

759
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: of you. I do this because this is what I

760
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: like to do. I don't do this because I don't

761
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: like to do this, and you know, I think we

762
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: are having to unlearn a lot of those ideals and

763
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: learn like what it means to be truly proud and

764
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: Zimbabwean and also Pan African in words. So, yeah, what

765
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: do you admire the most about people who have been colonized?

766
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: Probably our resilience because you put up with a lap child. Yeah,

767
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: I probably would have to say, the duality of our existence, yes, yeah,

768
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: I have to know how to navigate both spaces, you know,

769
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: and navigate them well, yes, in order to survive in

770
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 2: this world. This is the truth. I can't my past

771
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: and also something thrust upon me or upon us as

772
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: the people, I should say, yeah, and the fact that

773
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: we can survive through it all. We're just making it work.

774
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: And we really really have. And also our humanity, like

775
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: we've shown a lot of grace to those who've oppressed us,

776
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: sometimes to our detriment, I think. But you know, if

777
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: you meet anyone who comes from a marginalized or previously

778
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: oppressed or oppressed or discriminated society, you had off because

779
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: the things you have to endure just to survive and

780
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: then to also want to thrive in these environments.

781
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: It's and to not apologize for your existence. You know.

782
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: Oh what an episode. The person that comes top of

783
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: mind for them shout out is Takunda on.

784
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: And Y talk. Yes.

785
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: Uh. Firstly her fits. How long does it take her

786
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: to record her reels and her tiktoks because she'd be

787
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: doing outfit changes and not just mediocre. She's like coming

788
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: through and how not not layering like.

789
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely doing a completely different.

790
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: Look exactly like she she is bomb love her, like

791
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: I want to live in her water.

792
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: Her suit collection is just like to die for.

793
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: Honestly, major shout out to Takunda because she killing the game.

794
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: Killing the game, I think that's easily. I swear I'm

795
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: always in her dms like oh no, I need that

796
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: fit and so badass about it, and she has fun

797
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: with her tiktoks and reels and it's just so lovely

798
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 1: to see.

799
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: Someone like that. When I first saw I didn't even

800
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: think she was Zimbabwe And obviously you see the name,

801
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, she must be because this typically we

802
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 2: don't are not known to dress well as a nation.

803
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: We talk about this in the fashion episode, so it's

804
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: it's lovely to see. Yeah, she's amazing, and she knows

805
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: how to fit to her body as well. Exactly. I

806
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 2: think a lot of some of the stuff she then

807
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: says she alters or she's made so it's fit. It's

808
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: like some of the stuff is customed and you. She

809
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: makes you realize how good when to suit or whatever,

810
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: how good it is to custom things to you. Yes,

811
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: and not just something that stock standard. And Taylor, Yeah,

812
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: I need.

813
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: To get that Taylor money or get the Taylor skilled

814
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: because I was not listening enough during Missus Chimbus Fashion

815
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: and Fabric Listens.

816
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, mister.

817
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: Shout out to Takunda. We love your style. Keep killing

818
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: it and showing us how it's done. One day I

819
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: want to be like, but yeah, thanks Amanda for this episode.

820
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: It was deep, Like we said, no holds barred, we're

821
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: going straight.

822
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: In straight, straight. But she let us know their thought

823
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: because I know this can be touchy, but this is

824
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: our take and you're obviously more than welcome to ask

825
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 2: us more about it, to give us your take too,

826
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 2: because we know that this topic it's layered.

827
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: It's so layered.

828
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: Yes, please hit us up.

829
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: We're on Instagram at its layered, Twitter at its Layered Pod.

830
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: We're on Facebook. You can email email us it's Layeredpod

831
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com and submit your questions and comments.

832
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: We will be responding, i think, on our final episode

833
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: with questions and answers on everything that you guys sent through,

834
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: So please do not be shy send voice notes even

835
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: we are here, here for it.

836
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: I want to hear it all exactly.

837
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and we'll see you guys on

838
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: the next episode.

839
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 2: Bye bye no no no yeah yeah yeah, oh no

840
00:46:59,040 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 2: no no