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Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now is the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territories Electoral Commissioner Ian Logan.

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Speaker 2: Nathan, good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 2: Busy weekend for you, no doubt.

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Speaker 3: Oh look absolutely.

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Speaker 4: I just want to say that I wasn't at any

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Speaker 4: Sandba party on the weekend, so we were busy counting

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Speaker 4: votes just to confirm.

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Speaker 1: Well, I wasn't even planning on asking you whether you

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Speaker 1: got to the sand Bar party, but thanks for clarifying.

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Speaker 1: Now talk us through the results of the weekend. Firstly,

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Speaker 1: with the by election, I know that there's been been

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Speaker 1: discussion about there being a low voter turnout in some

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Speaker 1: parts of the rural area.

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Speaker 2: Was that the case.

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Speaker 4: What we saw in terms of the turnout Katie on

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Speaker 4: the election on Saturday, or really over the last two weeks,

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Speaker 4: is that the turnout was close to about sixty three percent,

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Speaker 4: which is about ten percent less than what we had

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Speaker 4: at the territory election last year for the division of

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Speaker 4: Daily and that's probably about what we expected. We expected

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Speaker 4: to get somewhere around sixty five percent. By elections are

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Speaker 4: always lower than general elections. What was interesting is in

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Speaker 4: terms of where this lower turnout seemed to be much

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Speaker 4: more in terms of the rural area. We actually had

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Speaker 4: quite an increased turnout with the remote electors and a

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Speaker 4: decrease in rural areas.

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Speaker 2: Why do you reckon that is?

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Speaker 4: Look, I'll leave that to political commentators. You know, my

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Speaker 4: role as electoral commissioners obviously to be a political and

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Speaker 4: just to give the data. What I can say is

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Speaker 4: in relation to our advertising campaign that we know that

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Speaker 4: on average in social media, electors in daily received our

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Speaker 4: message seven times, and we had two thousand of those

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Speaker 4: electors clicked through and go to our website. So it's

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Speaker 4: clearly the message was getting through. But for some reason,

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Speaker 4: a significant number which is probably about two hundred less

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Speaker 4: or four percent of the electorate in the rural areas

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Speaker 4: didn't vote at the by election.

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Speaker 1: Did you focus more energy on the remote areas than

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Speaker 1: what you did the rural area.

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Speaker 4: Look, we certainly focused on both. I think we do

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Speaker 4: all know that remote communities are generally harder to communicate

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Speaker 4: with in terms of getting out that messaging. I think

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Speaker 4: what we saw out in the remote communities at this

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Speaker 4: election was that because it is a by election, the

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Speaker 4: parties can focus the resources on just one electorate. So

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Speaker 4: we certainly had a lot of campaign workers out there,

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Speaker 4: and that certainly gets the message out that voting is happening.

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Speaker 4: We also had extended voting services at what I this time,

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Speaker 4: we were there for a week. Usually we're there for

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Speaker 4: a couple of days. But let me say, in terms

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Speaker 4: of the rural area, we're at Berry Springs for a week.

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Speaker 4: We were at Koler Linga for two weeks and had

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Speaker 4: a couple of voting centers open on the Saturday as well.

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Speaker 1: So you feel quite satisfied with the way in which

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Speaker 1: the electoral commissions conducted things in terms of making sure

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Speaker 1: that people voted.

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Speaker 4: Look in terms of the administration of the election, and

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Speaker 4: in terms of how we've public relations. I certainly at

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Speaker 4: this point in time, I don't have any concerns. Certainly

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Speaker 4: if people have any issues or they didn't get the message,

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Speaker 4: we'd certainly like to learn from that and and and

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Speaker 4: see anything can be done in the future. I just

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Speaker 4: was actually out at Lichfield Council doing the declaration there,

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Speaker 4: and I sort of in the discussions there sort of

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Speaker 4: said that their turnout was for their local government election

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Speaker 4: was in seventy three and a half percent, which is

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Speaker 4: significantly higher than what we've had at the daily by

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Speaker 4: election on the weekend.

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Speaker 2: Do you reckon there was.

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Speaker 1: Any confusion by any people in you know, like in

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Speaker 1: that electorateive daily about the local government election and then

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Speaker 1: the by election happening so close to each other.

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Speaker 4: Look, that certainly was a factor. But looking Territorians, they

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Speaker 4: know their politics, and certainly with a by election it

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Speaker 4: had a huge focus. There was a lot of campaigning

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Speaker 4: done from both sides and from the from and from

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Speaker 4: the independent candidates. So look, you know, it possibly was

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Speaker 4: a factor, but you'd probably possibly think that they would

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Speaker 4: be more more of a factor with the remote communities

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Speaker 4: than we would be with the rural communities.

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Speaker 2: Were there any complaints made in the end?

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Speaker 1: I know that there'd been some discussion about there being

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Speaker 1: a bit of an argie bargie at one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the polling boots I think outam.

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Speaker 2: Did there end up being complaints made?

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Speaker 4: Look, we certainly received a number of complaints about sort

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Speaker 4: of overly aggressive behavior at voting centers. Look, we have

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Speaker 4: a code of conduct and we ask people to comply,

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Speaker 4: and really anything that happens outside the ten meter rule

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Speaker 4: of those voting centers is outside our control and it's

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Speaker 4: really your you know, we've basically said that if you

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Speaker 4: think people have.

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Speaker 3: Breached the law, then referred those matters to the police.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And so there's nothing else that the Electoral Commission

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Speaker 1: needs to follow up in that space at the moment.

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Speaker 4: Look, nothing at this stage in regard to anything that

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Speaker 4: happened at any voting centers. There were a few queries

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Speaker 4: and things like that, but really nothing out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 1: Now you did just say that you've just come back

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Speaker 1: from Lichfield. We're obviously those local government results have flown through.

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Speaker 1: For some of them, it's been you know, like we've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for a couple of weeks to find out

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Speaker 1: who's going to become Alderman or who's going to become

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Speaker 1: the mayor of both Catherine and Litchfield were two that

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Speaker 1: were still up in the air, but we now know

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Speaker 1: how those results have panned out.

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Speaker 4: Look absolutely, and if you're interested, if your listeners are interested,

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Speaker 4: all the webs all the details on our website, the

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Speaker 4: NTC website. If you're interested about learning about the proportional

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Speaker 4: voting system, you can go to our spreadsheets and see

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Speaker 4: that there's a lot of data there. And look, you know,

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Speaker 4: this is democracy, and certainly was pleasing to see an

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Speaker 4: increase in turnout at the local government elections, but there's

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Speaker 4: still a long way to go before we get more

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Speaker 4: territorianes engaged in democracy.

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Speaker 1: One of the seats that was incredibly close was that

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Speaker 1: of the mayor position in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: Is there a recount happening on that one?

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Speaker 4: Yes, there is, so tomorrow there'll be a recount happening there.

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Speaker 4: Some of my staff are flying down to Alys this

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Speaker 4: evening just to coordinate that. You know, like I said,

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Speaker 4: in our springs, we did see a decline in turnout,

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Speaker 4: and the margin's only seventeen votes, so, as I keep

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Speaker 4: on saying over and over again, every vote counts. But

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Speaker 4: we'll be doing a recount there tomorrow. And we've delayed

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Speaker 4: the declaration in Alice Springs until that has been completed.

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Speaker 1: So only seventeen votes separating the two at the moment.

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Speaker 1: But Bart, you're doing that recount tomorrow and then we'll

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Speaker 1: have a much fairer idea.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 4: Look, yeah, look, certainly it's not as though that mistakes

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Speaker 4: don't occur when you're canning votes in saying that we

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Speaker 4: have Candida in three times, but when the margins disclose,

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Speaker 4: I think we really owe it to both candidates to

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Speaker 4: make sure that the will of their voters has been

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Speaker 4: accurately recorded.

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Speaker 1: And was that the closest that we saw in some

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Speaker 1: of these different areas. Seventeen seems pretty close, but for

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Speaker 1: the positions of aldermen, I'm assuming that some of them

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Speaker 1: might have even been closer.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 4: So in terms of in lines Ward, we've had the

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Speaker 4: last elected candidate there that amy Un was success full.

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Speaker 3: The imagine there was just twelve votes.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And in Catherine, in terms of the election of the

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Speaker 4: sixth counselor, the margin was zero, it was it was equal,

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Speaker 4: So that was that was interesting in itself.

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Speaker 2: So there's a tie. What do you do now?

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Speaker 4: So all I had to actually honestly have to go

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Speaker 4: back and have a look at the electoral actors. So

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Speaker 4: what you do in these situations, and what you actually

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Speaker 4: do is you go back to the previous count and

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Speaker 4: see who was ahead at that point and that person

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Speaker 4: is declared the.

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Speaker 1: Winner, and so who ended up getting in there in

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Speaker 1: Catherine or you might not have that in front in

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Speaker 1: front of you.

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Speaker 4: I don't have that information in front of me, But

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Speaker 4: let me say that. We're also doing a recount obviously

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Speaker 4: of the of the Catherine Alderman, given the fact that

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Speaker 4: you know, one era could potentially change the result, so

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Speaker 4: we're doing that this morning as well.

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Speaker 1: Is that the first time that that's ever happened in

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Speaker 1: your time that there's been a draw? I?

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Speaker 4: Look, absolutely, yeah, So that was that was certainly something

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Speaker 4: new for me and possibly for most of my staff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Is it something that's quite unprecedented around Australia orpect?

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm suspecting that some of the electorates that

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Speaker 1: are a little bit smaller, maybe it happens a bit

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Speaker 1: more often.

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Speaker 4: Look, I certainly made a few calls on the weekend

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Speaker 4: to some learned electoral people as to how to deal

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Speaker 4: with this, and they started sending me cases where this

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Speaker 4: is how occurred in the future and it had gone

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Speaker 4: to court and what the court had deemed what was appropriate.

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Speaker 3: So that was obviously a very helpful, a very helpful.

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Speaker 1: Guide, I reckon it would have been at least, and

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Speaker 1: you've got, you know, you've got some experience to go

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Speaker 1: by from other locations and in some of those different rural.

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Speaker 2: Areas as well.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that you know that there may not have

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Speaker 1: been a huge number of votes separating or that there

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Speaker 1: may not have been a huge number of votes for

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Speaker 1: some of those people who did indeed get elected.

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Speaker 4: Look, one of our smallest council is belle Ewen and

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Speaker 4: certainly there was an interesting result there where in terms

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Speaker 4: of being on the council. We've had someone who get

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Speaker 4: elected on just one first preference vote, which I assume

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Speaker 4: was their own. But it just shows you the importance

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Speaker 4: of preferences that if you can get people to direct

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Speaker 4: your preferences to you, you know me, they certainly have

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Speaker 4: had a significant impact in terms of this election. If

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Speaker 4: you looked at the primary votes for a number of

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Speaker 4: candidates standing for mayor and standing for aldermen or counselors,

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Speaker 4: even though they did reasonably well there, once you distributed

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Speaker 4: the preferences, a number of those have missed out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, one vote in Bellu and it does make

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Speaker 1: your sort of question. I know that it's not a

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Speaker 1: discussion for you and I to have. It's more I

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Speaker 1: guess with the government, but one vote it does sort

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Speaker 1: of make your question whether we need to do things

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Speaker 1: a bit differently.

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Speaker 3: Look, it is a very small council.

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Speaker 4: There's only ninety people voting there, so you kind of

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Speaker 4: have to look at that in perspective, but certainly it's

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Speaker 4: a good electoral tale in regard to you know, sort

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Speaker 4: of sort of odd results that often occur in the

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Speaker 4: Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, anything else we should be aware of before we

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Speaker 1: wrap up this morning.

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Speaker 4: Look, now, just to certainly want to thank all the

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Speaker 4: councils for their cooperation in running all these elections. Will

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Speaker 4: be doing the declarations in over the next couple of days.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, just a shout out to all your voters,

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Speaker 4: all your listeners who voted, and all the ones that didn't.

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Speaker 4: You may be receiving a letter in the mail asking

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Speaker 4: why you didn't, and just the reminder that voting is

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Speaker 4: important and we need the people of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: To have their say.

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Speaker 2: Will they get fined?

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Speaker 4: Look, in relation to the council elections, that's a matter

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Speaker 4: for the councils, because we run those elections for them.

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Speaker 4: They will make that determination. If they do, then we'll

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Speaker 4: administer it on their behalf. In relation to the daily electors,

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Speaker 4: they will be getting a letter from the Electoral Commission

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Speaker 4: because that's our determination, right.

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Speaker 1: And then do you know how much they'll potentially if

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Speaker 1: they're not able to say why they didn't vote and

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Speaker 1: give a good reason.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so the fines twenty five dollars?

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Speaker 2: Is that enough?

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Speaker 4: Look, it used to be fifty dollars in local government

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Speaker 4: and twenty five dollars in legislative assembly, and there was

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Speaker 4: discussion about whether it should be equal, and the position

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Speaker 4: of the Electoral Commission is yes, let's make it both

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Speaker 4: fifty dollars.

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Speaker 3: But they were both decreased. It was decreased, so it

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Speaker 3: was twenty five each.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, that's again that's a matter in terms of

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Speaker 4: that was Parliament's decision. But we certainly think that maybe

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Speaker 4: a stronger disincentive or a stronger incentive for people to

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Speaker 4: vote it's probably would be helpful.

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Speaker 2: I agree.

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Speaker 1: I actually think that the reality of it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty five bucks, you sort of go all right, well,

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Speaker 1: I won't buy lunch today and pay the fine. And

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Speaker 1: we want as many people out there voting as possible.

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Speaker 1: It is our democratic right and something that people die

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Speaker 1: for in other locations. It's so very important in my opinion.

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Speaker 4: Look, absolutely, you know I've been saying this for many years.

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Speaker 4: We need more Territorians to have their say, but you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm thankful for the ones who did. And let me

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Speaker 4: say in terms of all the councilors and mayors who

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Speaker 4: have been elected, we wish you all the best in

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Speaker 4: your upcoming term.

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Speaker 1: Well Northern Territory Electoral Commissioner Ian Logan, Nathan, we appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time this morning, know you're very busy. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: We'll catch up with you again soon.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie,