Speaker 1: Have you ever made a vision board, like visualized your success,
Speaker 1: try to manifest something into existence. It feels good right that,
Speaker 1: according to the science, it might actually be working against you. Now,
Speaker 1: this is part two of my conversation with behavioral scientist
Speaker 1: and author of Beyond Belief, Near El And if you
Speaker 1: haven't listened to part one yet, go back and start there.
Speaker 1: NIA spent six years digging into exactly this why positive thinking,
Speaker 1: vision boards and manifesting feels so compelling, but why the
Speaker 1: research tells a very different story. Today we are going
Speaker 1: to get into failure goals and how you might be
Speaker 1: able to benefit from them, how leaders can use simulation
Speaker 1: designed to shape what their teams see and do, and
Speaker 1: what higher performance athletes actually visualize. And it's not the
Speaker 1: finish line. Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals,
Speaker 1: and strategies.
Speaker 2: For optimizing your date. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber.
Speaker 1: Now, before we started recording, you were asking me what
Speaker 1: my favorite parts of the book were, and I told
Speaker 1: you that one of my favorite strategies that's in the book.
Speaker 1: I love it because there are so many great concepts
Speaker 1: in the book, but it's also really practical that so
Speaker 1: many great strategies and rituals and practices in there.
Speaker 2: One of my.
Speaker 1: Favorites is failure goals and this resonated with me because
Speaker 1: at the moment as I was sharing with you, I'm
Speaker 1: in that really awkward process of book writing where you
Speaker 1: reach out to people asking for a testimonial or a
Speaker 1: blurb as they're called in America, and I just feel
Speaker 1: so awkward asking for You know what is quite a
Speaker 1: big favor because it involves reading a book, and not
Speaker 1: even a hard copy book. It's generally a PDF that
Speaker 1: is in some kind of hopefully not too bad form,
Speaker 1: and failure goals made me think, ah, I need to
Speaker 1: shift my belief around that. Can you share what a
Speaker 1: failure goal is?
Speaker 2: Absolutely so. Failure goals comes out of these different techniques
Speaker 2: that we can use to increase our luck surface area
Speaker 2: that it turns out, one of the things that surprised
Speaker 2: me in this research is that luck is not chance.
Speaker 2: We think that luck just happens, and that's not true.
Speaker 2: That lucky people manufacture luck. And this goes back to
Speaker 2: the power beliefs about how beliefs change what you see, feel,
Speaker 2: and do. I'll give you a quick study that demonstrated this.
Speaker 2: There was a study where they asked people who were
Speaker 2: self identified as lucky and self identified as unlucky, and
Speaker 2: they give them a very very simple task. They ask
Speaker 2: them to look through a newspaper that they had given
Speaker 2: them and just count the number of images in the newspaper.
Speaker 2: That's all I have to do. Two three, just count
Speaker 2: the number of images in the newspaper. Now, people who
Speaker 2: were self identified as unlucky, right, they call themselves. Unlucky
Speaker 2: people took them about two and a half minutes to
Speaker 2: do this task and then collect their reward two and
Speaker 2: a half minutes. Lucky people took eleven seconds. Eleven seconds.
Speaker 2: How what happened? Turns out that on page two, as
Speaker 2: soon as they opened the newspaper, one of those images said,
Speaker 2: there are forty three images in this paper. Collect your reward.
Speaker 2: And it turns out that the lucky people saw that
Speaker 2: they saw an ad that the unlucky people on average
Speaker 2: didn't see. And if you asked those unlucky people, why
Speaker 2: didn't you just do what the ad told you? I
Speaker 2: didn't see it. No clue didn't exist for me. Like
Speaker 2: it literally shaped what they were able to see. And
Speaker 2: this is this is the core of entrepreneurship. When an
Speaker 2: entrepreneur sees an opportunity and says, God, this is so obvious.
Speaker 2: Why isn't everyone else doing this? There's one hundred dollar
Speaker 2: bills all over the floor. That's essentially what they're saying.
Speaker 2: You're calling everyone else an idiot by saying, how do
Speaker 2: you not see this amazing opportunity? An entrepreneur needs that
Speaker 2: bit of what Walter Isaacson called the reality distortion feel
Speaker 2: to even make this opportunity possible. And so by having
Speaker 2: that attitude, that belief about the world, you become more lucky.
Speaker 2: You see opportunities that other people don't see. And so
Speaker 2: another opportunity is to a technique I should say, is
Speaker 2: these failure goals. So as opposed to how most people
Speaker 2: see reality, failure is bad. Failure should be punished, right,
Speaker 2: don't fail. That's not how successful people see failure. Successful
Speaker 2: people see failure as checking off what doesn't work. That
Speaker 2: a failure is good, a failure should be rewarded. Best
Speaker 2: way to illustrate this think about whatever goal is in
Speaker 2: your way. Okay, so whatever obstacle. So if it's you
Speaker 2: have a goal for closing more sales, a goal for
Speaker 2: getting funding for your venture, a goal for making a
Speaker 2: key higher, a goal to find love in your life,
Speaker 2: whatever that goal might be. And if I told you, hey, look,
Speaker 2: I traveled inside a time machine and I went to
Speaker 2: the future. And I know for a fact that if
Speaker 2: you fail five more times, just five more times, five
Speaker 2: more sales calls, five more dates, five more meetings with
Speaker 2: venture capitalists, five more the sixth to one, you're going
Speaker 2: to succeed. You're going to hit it big with that
Speaker 2: six time. What are you going to do. Are you
Speaker 2: going to say, oh, well, I don't want to fail. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: no thanks, that's too hard. No, you're gonna say, okay, quick,
Speaker 2: let's go. I want to fail. Fail, fail, come on,
Speaker 2: let's fail. That's a failure goal. So when you set
Speaker 2: to yourself a metric for look, I know success is
Speaker 2: going to come. I need to follow the process. And
Speaker 2: every time I fail, Hey, I'm getting closer to my goal,
Speaker 2: because that's what it takes as long as I'm still learning. Now,
Speaker 2: failure without learning is a different story. But as long
Speaker 2: as you are failing in your learning, that actually is progress.
Speaker 2: It's not a point to quit, it's a point to celebrate.
Speaker 1: Well, I love that I actually set a failure goal
Speaker 1: on the weekend. Thanks to reading about that in your
Speaker 1: Bookcau's made me much more motivated. And it reminded me
Speaker 1: actually of something that happened to me in my early
Speaker 1: twenties where I was pursuing a career as in position
Speaker 1: and I'd send out my demo to a bunch of
Speaker 1: record labels and managers and publishers. And I remember, obviously
Speaker 1: I hadn't read your books, It's going back quite some time,
Speaker 1: but I'd set myself the goal that I want my
Speaker 1: bedroom wall to be covered in rejection letters before I
Speaker 1: would get one acceptance. And it didn't take that long.
Speaker 1: And believe it, I had set a failure goal there,
Speaker 1: and that was quite motivating.
Speaker 2: Fantastic.
Speaker 1: Now, I want to talk about the idea of designing simulations.
Speaker 1: And in the book you talk about the idea of
Speaker 1: leaders changing how they think about the workplace and thinking
Speaker 1: about it as this simulation that their team is stepping
Speaker 1: into every day. Can you talk a bit more about like,
Speaker 1: what what does that mean practically the leaders of simulation designers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so remember how we talked earlier about how we
Speaker 2: are creating simulations in our own heads based on our beliefs. Well,
Speaker 2: when we expand that circumstance, when we go from the
Speaker 2: individual to the organization, that is nothing but company culture.
Speaker 2: What is company culture. It's a set of codified beliefs
Speaker 2: that dictate how we see reality. So what gets rewarded,
Speaker 2: what gets punished, What will help us succeed in this
Speaker 2: enterprise is based on that company culture, which is nothing
Speaker 2: more than a set of beliefs. When we say that
Speaker 2: we believe that the customer is first, or that shareholders
Speaker 2: are first, or whoever is first. When we have those
Speaker 2: set of beliefs, those aren't facts, right, Many companies that
Speaker 2: put customers as number one still failed. So it's not
Speaker 2: necessarily that it's a fact that every time you put
Speaker 2: customers first you're going to succeed. It's all kinds of
Speaker 2: reasons you may not succeed, but it's something we hold
Speaker 2: on to. It's something that we believe because based on evidence,
Speaker 2: we think it's going to help us. It's going to
Speaker 2: be a liberating belief. It's going to increase motivation within
Speaker 2: the company to do what we need to do to succeed.
Speaker 2: So crafting that company culture, there's of course that documented
Speaker 2: the codified culture that everybody sees. Then, of course there's
Speaker 2: the practical application of do we walk the walk? Do
Speaker 2: we actually do what we believe is that part of
Speaker 2: the company culture, and that flows downhill. That you know,
Speaker 2: water flows downhill and culture flows downhill. So when people
Speaker 2: see what management does, what does the big boss do
Speaker 2: to what do they not only say, but what do
Speaker 2: they actually do? That is the manifestation of these beliefs.
Speaker 2: And so it's not something that we can take lightly.
Speaker 2: That we need to design that simulation appropriately every single
Speaker 2: day because it literally shapes what the people in our
Speaker 2: organization do, not only that, it shapes what the products
Speaker 2: do for our customers. So I wonder ifill illustration of
Speaker 2: this has to do with how our expectations of a
Speaker 2: product can shape the actual experience. So when we talk
Speaker 2: about the three powers of belief, the power to change
Speaker 2: what we see, feel, and do, many times we think, Okay,
Speaker 2: I manufacture this coffee mug, and the coffee mug is
Speaker 2: a coffe mugg. It is what it is. No, it's not,
Speaker 2: it's what you expect it to be. It's what you
Speaker 2: expect that experience to endow you with. That turns out
Speaker 2: to have a profound effect. So, for example, we know
Speaker 2: that when golfers were given a putter that they were
Speaker 2: told was used by a famous golfer, a very successful golfer,
Speaker 2: Tiger Woods or somebody, I don't know who, they told
Speaker 2: them they did better, their golf skills magically improved. We
Speaker 2: know that when you are told they did a beautiful
Speaker 2: study where they put people in an fMRI machine and
Speaker 2: they gave them a little tube inside their mouth that
Speaker 2: gave them a sample of wine. And they told these people, hey,
Speaker 2: this wine is five dollars a bottle. Okay, five dollars
Speaker 2: bottle of wine. What do you think of it? And
Speaker 2: they would describe it as you know, okay, it's all right,
Speaker 2: it's a little harsh on the thinish, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: And they would see in their brain what was happening
Speaker 2: because they were in this fMRI machine at the time.
Speaker 2: Then they said, okay, we're gonna give us a second
Speaker 2: sample of wine. This is a very expensive bottle of wine. Okay,
Speaker 2: now sample the wine. What do you think of this wine? Oh,
Speaker 2: it's very nice. I like it. It's it has a
Speaker 2: hint of oak and cherry, and you know all this
Speaker 2: stuff that win snobs say, and it turns out not
Speaker 2: only do these people express that the wine was better,
Speaker 2: they could actually see in their brains that the more
Speaker 2: expensive wine was processed differently. Now, of course the trick here,
Speaker 2: you know, there's a trick. He was the same wine.
Speaker 2: They give them the exact same wine two different times.
Speaker 2: All they changed was what they told them about the
Speaker 2: price of the wine. Now, how does this apply to
Speaker 2: us in business? Like price, we set expectations through beliefs,
Speaker 2: So whatever we anticipate will happen to some degree that
Speaker 2: is actually what happens. And so what is advertising? We
Speaker 2: think advertising is about promoting our brand, is about telling people,
Speaker 2: is about increasing awareness. Okay, yes, but that's not the
Speaker 2: main goal. If you think about you know, why does
Speaker 2: Coca Cola spend so much money on advertising? We all
Speaker 2: know Coca Cola. Who doesn't know Coca Cola. They can't
Speaker 2: increase brand awareness anymore, we all know it already. Why
Speaker 2: do they do that? They spend all that money on
Speaker 2: brand awareness because they're trying to change your experience. So
Speaker 2: when you have an image in your mind of refreshing
Speaker 2: and delicious and whatever, they can change that actual experience,
Speaker 2: just like that wine study that showed that, hey, if
Speaker 2: we just tell you with more expensive, you're actually going
Speaker 2: to enjoy it even though it's the same bottle line.
Speaker 2: The same goes with our advertising, so company culture, branding, advertising.
Speaker 2: All of these things go back to the power belief
Speaker 2: and how our beliefs really do shape our perception of reality.
Speaker 1: We've been talking about beliefs at an individual level so far,
Speaker 1: but after the break Neia looks at how beliefs play
Speaker 1: out at work, in leadership, and in the goals we
Speaker 1: set ourselves. Coming up, Nia gets into why the way
Speaker 1: you frame something to your team matters just as much
Speaker 1: as the thing itself, how to walk into a situation
Speaker 1: you're already dreading and flip it around, and why positive
Speaker 1: thinking might actually be working against you. If you're looking
Speaker 1: for more tips to improve the way you work, can Live.
Speaker 1: I write a short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've
Speaker 1: discovered that have helped me personally. You can sign up
Speaker 1: for that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot com.
Speaker 1: You shared a really interesting anecdote on this topic around
Speaker 1: leaders that had applied some of the concepts from your
Speaker 1: last book indiestractable and how they framed those concept impacted
Speaker 1: the results. Can you share, like the different types of
Speaker 1: framing that you saw laters.
Speaker 2: Do and what happened. Yeah, that with Indiestractable, with my
Speaker 2: second book, which is a book about how to fight
Speaker 2: distraction and be more productive. When leaders would sell my
Speaker 2: workshop to their staff as, hey, we're going to do
Speaker 2: a personal productivity workshop versus we're going to show you
Speaker 2: how to gain control over your attention, and just that
Speaker 2: simple reframe of empowering versus teaching and lecturing huge impact.
Speaker 2: Right That people felt much more agency and control and
Speaker 2: actually did better in terms of implementing these techniques based
Speaker 2: on the framing. And so it's not something to be
Speaker 2: glossed over. It's not, Hey, the product is what the
Speaker 2: product is. No, the anticipation of what the product will
Speaker 2: do for you and how we frame that is incredibly important.
Speaker 1: Now, something I am doing next week, which I've to
Speaker 1: sum myself up to is going to a networking event,
Speaker 1: so like an industry thing for organizational psychologists. I don't
Speaker 1: think I'm going to know anyone, and I hate networking events,
Speaker 1: as I think most people do, but I thought this
Speaker 1: would be good for me to go along too. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me how I can apply this idea of
Speaker 1: simulation design and changing my beliefs to set me up
Speaker 1: for success.
Speaker 2: Sure. So if you walk in saying I hate it,
Speaker 2: you will because again, with this expectation loop, it starts
Speaker 2: with a belief. That belief is based on an anticipatory
Speaker 2: response what you expect to happen. That anticipatory response is
Speaker 2: turning into a feeling, and then is reinforced with confirmation.
Speaker 2: So it's believe, anticipate, feel confirmed. That's this loop. And
Speaker 2: this is exactly what happens with the products we use.
Speaker 2: It's exactly what happens with every experience that we partake in.
Speaker 2: So if you believe that you're not going to like
Speaker 2: this experience, that is what your brain anticipates. That is
Speaker 2: then what you feel because you pay attention to, hey,
Speaker 2: this is what's happening. Oh you see that sucks and
Speaker 2: this isn't very good and I don't like this, and
Speaker 2: then of course you confirm it by what you just did.
Speaker 2: I hate networking, So now you reinforce the very belief.
Speaker 2: Now I don't blame you, I'm the exact same way.
Speaker 2: That's why I wrote this book we are exactly got
Speaker 2: from the same exact cloth. So instead, what you're gonna
Speaker 2: do is you're going to try and do this in reverse.
Speaker 2: You're not going to look for why you hate networking,
Speaker 2: but rather you're going to find You're going to walk
Speaker 2: in and say, I'm going to find three things I
Speaker 2: liked about this event tonight, Like literally walk in saying,
Speaker 2: I'm going to intentionally look for three things that I
Speaker 2: like about this event. It can be hey, the food
Speaker 2: was pretty good, or I met one person I really liked,
Speaker 2: or the music was nice, and it doesn't matter. You're
Speaker 2: going to intentionally look for You're going to anticipate something good.
Speaker 2: Then you're going to note that sensation. You're going to
Speaker 2: feel that thing inside you, whether it's hey, you know what,
Speaker 2: I met that really nice person and that made me
Speaker 2: feel good and I hope we stay in touch. And
Speaker 2: then you're gonna confirm it. You're going to say it
Speaker 2: to somebody else, you know, maybe write it down for
Speaker 2: yourself and say it to somebody else about a couple
Speaker 2: things that you really liked about that circumstance. And of
Speaker 2: course what's going to happen is over time, your brain
Speaker 2: is going to see more of that. So you can
Speaker 2: use that believe, anticipate, feel confirm loop to change these
Speaker 2: beliefs overtime, and what you will find is that you'll
Speaker 2: like it more over time. I mean, I'll give you
Speaker 2: a personal example. My business today is public speaking, right,
Speaker 2: so that's how I make most of my livelihood, is
Speaker 2: public speaking. And yet when I first got started, I
Speaker 2: had terrible stage fright, terrible stage fright, and I would
Speaker 2: constantly tell myself whenever I would feel these physiological sensations
Speaker 2: of dry mouth before I would get on stage and
Speaker 2: sweaty armpits and my heart was palpitating, I would tell myself,
Speaker 2: I'm no good at this. I hate public speaking. If
Speaker 2: I was any good at this, then I wouldn't feel
Speaker 2: these things. A professional doesn't feel these things. And so
Speaker 2: I kept looking for what I believe to be true
Speaker 2: that when I felt these signals, these physiological signals, ah,
Speaker 2: you see, that means I'm not good at this and
Speaker 2: why I hate it, and that I would keep going
Speaker 2: down that believe, anticipate, feel confirmed loop. How do I
Speaker 2: change it? I started believing something different about the same
Speaker 2: exact physiological reactions. Okay, that I started interpreting them differently,
Speaker 2: so I still get those heart palpitations even talking to
Speaker 2: you right now, right, I'm quote unquote nervous. My heart
Speaker 2: is beating, and I still have the sweaty armpits. I
Speaker 2: still have the same exact physiological sensations. That didn't change.
Speaker 2: What change is my interpretation. So now when I feel
Speaker 2: my heart beating, I don't say, oh, I'm getting nervous
Speaker 2: and I'm going to mess up and this is going
Speaker 2: to be terrible. And why do I feel this? I
Speaker 2: wish I wouldn't. No, I reduce my suffering by reinterpreting
Speaker 2: the same exact physiological signals. So now when my heart
Speaker 2: is beating, I have a different story. The story is, oh,
Speaker 2: my heart is beating quickly so that I can get
Speaker 2: more oxygen to my brain so I can deliver my
Speaker 2: best possible performance. And now I anticipate something different. Right,
Speaker 2: my belief changed. I anticipate something different, I feel something different.
Speaker 2: I actually do feel now I'm excited. Hey, my heart's
Speaker 2: beating quick that's excitement. That's not nervousness. That's excitement. And
Speaker 2: now I confirm it by hey, you know what I
Speaker 2: did pretty well? And let me note back with that
Speaker 2: reality journal of Hey, you know, maybe I did wasn't perfect,
Speaker 2: but it was a lot better.
Speaker 1: I love that. Now I want to talk about visualization
Speaker 1: because so many so called gurus say, just like, visualize
Speaker 1: the thing and it will come true, or you can
Speaker 1: manifest your way to success, and you know, the evidence
Speaker 1: is kind of limited. Tell me why does positive thinking
Speaker 1: and visualization actually backfire according to science?
Speaker 2: Right, that is exactly right, that there is a negative
Speaker 2: side to positive thinking, and that is that most people
Speaker 2: who espouse these techniques haven't actually looked at the research
Speaker 2: literature that in fact, we know that when you visualize something,
Speaker 2: and that's all you do is you visualize the end goal.
Speaker 2: For example, when you think about manifesting, when you think
Speaker 2: about vision boards, right, very popular exercise, when you're visualizing
Speaker 2: the end goal, it actually is counterproductive and studies have
Speaker 2: found this. Gabrielle Otigen did several studies like this where
Speaker 2: she took people, she brought them into a lab and
Speaker 2: she asked them to visualize what they want to manifest,
Speaker 2: to think about the future reality that they want to
Speaker 2: bring to themselves. And while they were doing this, she
Speaker 2: connected them to blood pressure monitors and she found that
Speaker 2: when people were visualizing the outcome of their success, I
Speaker 2: want the beach body, I want to make lots of money,
Speaker 2: I want the to find love in my life. When
Speaker 2: they were visualizing what they wanted as the end goal,
Speaker 2: their blood pressure dropped, and when she monitored their progress
Speaker 2: over time after they had left the lab, they became
Speaker 2: less likely to achieve their goals less likely. Why is that,
Speaker 2: We think it's because this exercise of visualizing a future
Speaker 2: outcome makes you more relaxed and therefore tells the brain
Speaker 2: you've already accomplished the reward. You already have it, so
Speaker 2: to speak. If you can imagine it, you experience in
Speaker 2: a way, and you become less motivated to actually go
Speaker 2: out there and do it. Why does that happen. That happens,
Speaker 2: we think because you're not preparing yourself for the inevitable
Speaker 2: difficulty of achieving that goal. When people say, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: but athletes do this, right, athletes visualize all kinds of things.
Speaker 2: What are athletes visualizing? It is true, athletes do visualize.
Speaker 2: How do they visualize? What are they visualizing? They are
Speaker 2: not visualizing. Talk to any performance high performance athlete. They're
Speaker 2: not visualizing. Here, I am standing up at the Olympics
Speaker 2: with my gold medal. Here I am holding up the trophy.
Speaker 2: That's not what they're visualizing. What they're visualizing are the
Speaker 2: obstacles in their way. That's the big difference. That's what
Speaker 2: people don't tell you. With this manifesting and vision boarding
Speaker 2: and positive thinking, it's not about the positive energy in
Speaker 2: the vibes. It's about understanding what you will do when
Speaker 2: there's an inevitable barrier in your way, when there's some
Speaker 2: kind of difficulty. So what is an athlete visualize? They visualize, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm on offense, and when defense comes at me, here's
Speaker 2: what I'm gonna do. I'm skiing down the mountain, and
Speaker 2: here's what it's going to do when it gets really tricky.
Speaker 2: That's what they're visualizing. So for us, in our everyday goals,
Speaker 2: what we have to do is not visualize the ending.
Speaker 2: It's getting comfortable with the discomfort. We're inevitably going to fail.
Speaker 2: So when we inevitably fail and get off go off track.
Speaker 2: So for me, for example, I used to be clinically obese.
Speaker 2: Today i'm forty eight. I'm in the best shape of
Speaker 2: my life. But it's not because of genetics, or because
Speaker 2: I like fitness not at all. I still don't like
Speaker 2: exercise per se, but I've changed my mindset around these things.
Speaker 2: I've changed my beliefs, and I prepare myself not with
Speaker 2: the final outcome. I don't die it well, I don't
Speaker 2: live a healthy lifestyle just because I'm thinking about, Oh,
Speaker 2: I want to go to the beach and take off
Speaker 2: my shirt. You know, like, that's not what I'm talking about. Rather,
Speaker 2: I visualize what will I do when I go to
Speaker 2: a dinner party and someone offers me a chocolate cake
Speaker 2: or a glass of wine that I know is not
Speaker 2: healthy for me? What will I do with the discomfort
Speaker 2: I'm feeling in that moment. That's the right thing to visualize,
Speaker 2: and changing our beliefs around that discomfort, seeing it as
Speaker 2: an asset again, changing what we anticipate will happen when
Speaker 2: we feel that invariable discomfort, and knowing how to deal
Speaker 2: with it. That's the right way to utilize positive thinking
Speaker 2: and imaging and what's called mental contrasting. You're contrasting the
Speaker 2: future reality with what's in your way to getting that reality.
Speaker 1: I love that, Neil. I could just keep talking to
Speaker 1: you for hours, but I need to be respectful of
Speaker 1: your time. Thank you so much for coming back on
Speaker 1: how I work. I just I absolutely love our chats.
Speaker 1: I love your work. There's so much more I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about that listeners are just going to have
Speaker 1: to go out and buy your brilliant book, Beyond Belief. Ni,
Speaker 1: thank you for putting such great work into the world.
Speaker 2: I appreciate. It's an honor to be back on your show.
Speaker 2: It's I appreciate you calling me back, and thank you
Speaker 2: so much for digesting the book. I'm very honored. Thank you.
Speaker 1: One thing I took from this chat with Nia is
Speaker 1: that visualizing the finish line of a big project online
Speaker 1: stone feels really productive. But what nearest research shows is
Speaker 1: that athletes who actually get there aren't picturing the trophy.
Speaker 1: They're picturing the moment that things get hard and exactly
Speaker 1: what they'll do when that happens. So when things get hard,
Speaker 1: and they will, what am I going to do? That
Speaker 1: is the question worth sitting with, in my opinion, and
Speaker 1: Nia's brand new book, Beyond Belief, is out now, and honestly,
Speaker 1: both parts of this conversation have only scratched the surface
Speaker 1: of what's in it. There are links to the book
Speaker 1: and Part one in the show notes, and hit follow
Speaker 1: so you don't miss what's coming next week on How
Speaker 1: I Work. If you like today's show, make sure you
Speaker 1: hit follow on your podcast app to be alerted when
Speaker 1: new episodes drop. How I Work was recorded on the
Speaker 1: traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the Cooler Nation.