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Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics

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Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

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Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amanda Imba. I'm an

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Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm

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Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date. This

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Speaker 1: episode is another my favorite Tip episode. The title is

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Speaker 1: probably pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from

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Speaker 1: each of the interviews I conduct. So my guest today

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Speaker 1: is Near. Eu Near is an international best selling author,

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Speaker 1: former Standford lecturer, successful tech investor, and behavioral design expert.

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Speaker 1: Five years ago, Near wrote what is widely considered to

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Speaker 1: be Silicon Valley's handbook for making technology habit forming, a

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Speaker 1: book called Hooked. More recently, he released his latest book, Indistractable,

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Speaker 1: which reveals the hidden psychology driving us to distraction. He

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Speaker 1: describes why solving the problem is not as simple as

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Speaker 1: swearing off our devices. In fact, Near claims that abstinence

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Speaker 1: is impractical and often makes us want more so. In

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Speaker 1: this extract of my chat with Nia, we talk about

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Speaker 1: the strategies that Nia has personally found most valuable in

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Speaker 1: his own life for becoming indestractable.

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Speaker 2: So when it comes to internal triggers, you know, writing

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Speaker 2: for me is really hard work. It's never been effortless.

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Speaker 2: It takes a lot of time, a lot of concentration,

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Speaker 2: and it's full of internal triggers. Boredom, uncertainty, fear, fatigue,

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Speaker 2: lots of internal triggers. I seek to escape. And what's

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Speaker 2: so pernicious about it is that, you know, distraction tricks you.

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Speaker 2: So in the middle of writing, I'll get this idea, Oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, I should probably check email real quick, because

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Speaker 2: that's productive. That's kind of worky, isn't it. Well, it's

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Speaker 2: a distraction, even though it feels worky. It's a distraction

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Speaker 2: because that's not what I plan to do with my time.

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Speaker 2: I plan to write. So I use a few techniques.

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Speaker 2: One of them is called surfing the urge, which is

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Speaker 2: just when you when you note that. The first stip

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Speaker 2: is to note the sensation. Okay, so you tell okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling anxious right now, I'm feeling fearful about this.

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Speaker 2: Is this essay going to be any good? Is anybody

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Speaker 2: going to want to read it? This is boring? Whatever

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Speaker 2: the sensation might be, you write that sensation down and

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Speaker 2: I give people this tool that they can download on

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Speaker 2: my website. I'll give you the link of the show

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Speaker 2: notes for a distraction tracker, where you simply note that

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Speaker 2: sensation that's incredibly empowering, just to write down what you felt,

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Speaker 2: and don't explore it with contempt. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: will jump, as I used to, to beating themselves up. Oh

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Speaker 2: you see I have an addictive personality, or you see

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Speaker 2: I short attention span, or whatever the case might be.

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Speaker 2: Instead of what we want to do is to explore

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Speaker 2: it with curiosity, not contempt. And what we find is

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Speaker 2: that when we surf the urge, kind of like a

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Speaker 2: surfer on a surfboard, we find that our emotions are

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Speaker 2: like waves. They just kind of rise, they crest, and

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Speaker 2: then they subside. And if we can allow ourselves to

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Speaker 2: be curious about that sensation as opposed to trying to

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Speaker 2: resist it with abstinence, and in fact, it's been shown

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Speaker 2: that abstinence leads to rumination, which can actually make the

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Speaker 2: problem worse, we can simply affect, accept that sensation and

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Speaker 2: allow it to wash over us. So that's surfing the

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Speaker 2: urge technique is what I use every day when it

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Speaker 2: comes to make time for traction. That's a technique I use.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't I couldn't function without it. You know, the

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Speaker 2: key principle here being that we have no right to

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Speaker 2: call something a distraction unless we know what it distracted

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Speaker 2: us from. So everything is in my calendar my values.

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Speaker 2: If you looked at my calendar, you would know what

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Speaker 2: my values are, not just what I say they are.

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Speaker 2: This is how I used to be if you said

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Speaker 2: to me, okay, what are you value in life? Oh?

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Speaker 2: My kid, my friends, my family, my health. But I

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Speaker 2: didn't make time for those things in my calendar. So

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Speaker 2: of course they didn't get the attention in time they deserved,

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Speaker 2: and I allowed time for all kinds of stupid distractions

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Speaker 2: that weren't aligned with my values. So I make time

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Speaker 2: for traction every single day, the things that you know,

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Speaker 2: the values in my life. Then I hack back the

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Speaker 2: external triggers the third step. So this involves you know,

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Speaker 2: not only my phone and computer, you know, all the

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Speaker 2: digital distraction, the potential distractions, but also in my environment.

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Speaker 2: So right now, what I plan to do is to

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Speaker 2: speak to you. So that means that I have a

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Speaker 2: sign on my door that says that I'm not to

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Speaker 2: be disturbed. In my little home office, I have a

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Speaker 2: tool that's as part of the book. Actually, every hard

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Speaker 2: copy comes with with what I call a screen sign.

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Speaker 2: It's a piece of card stock that you pull out

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Speaker 2: of the book, you fold into thirds, and you put

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Speaker 2: it on your computer monitor. Because it turns out that

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Speaker 2: one of the most common forms of distraction is the coworker, right,

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Speaker 2: a colleague coming by and saying.

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Speaker 3: Hey, check out this.

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Speaker 2: This bit of office gossip I got to tell you about.

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Speaker 2: That is itself a very common source of distraction. So

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Speaker 2: this simple screen sign says to your colleagues, I'm indistractable,

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Speaker 2: please come back later. So that's a way of hacking

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Speaker 2: back these external triggers that don't serve us. And then, finally,

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Speaker 2: the last step when it comes to preventing distraction with pacts,

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Speaker 2: this is all about keeping out those distracted keeping I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: keeping ourselves in so that we don't do something we

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Speaker 2: don't want to do with some kind of pre commitment device.

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Speaker 2: So an app I use every day is called Forest.

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Speaker 2: It's a free app. It's on my iPhone and this

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Speaker 2: is how it works. Simply, you open this app, you

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Speaker 2: put in how much time you want to do focused

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Speaker 2: work for and a little virtual tree is planted right,

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Speaker 2: so the entire screen is taken up by this little

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Speaker 2: virtual tree. If you pick up the phone and try

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Speaker 2: and do anything with it, the virtual tree dies. Now

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Speaker 2: it's a stupid little virtual tree. Who cares, right, But

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Speaker 2: it's enough of a reminder that you've made a pre commitment,

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Speaker 2: that you've made a pact with yourself, and it reminds

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Speaker 2: you that using the phone for some other purpose is

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Speaker 2: not you wanted to do with your time. So that's

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Speaker 2: how I've used these four strategies in concert with a

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Speaker 2: few techniques. There's a lot more in the book, but

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the thirty thousand foot view.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 1: And I remember reading about the forest app in the

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Speaker 1: book and thinking, ah, I got to give that a go.

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Speaker 3: Is that sounds amazingly effective.

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Speaker 1: I want to come back to what you were saying

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Speaker 1: about your calendar and your calendar reflecting your values. And

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Speaker 1: in the book you talk about time boxing and I guess,

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Speaker 1: like blocking out time for doing things as opposed to

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Speaker 1: just running off to do list, I guess, and having

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Speaker 1: lots of free time and then sort of self managing

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Speaker 1: on the go I.

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Speaker 3: Guess I'm curious, like, what does Like if I were looking.

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Speaker 1: At your calendar, what would I see? Would I see

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Speaker 1: everything blocked out hour by hour?

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Speaker 3: Like? Can you give me a sense of what I

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Speaker 3: would see?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this technique is very well studied. It's called

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Speaker 2: setting an implementation intention. Thousands of studies have This is

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Speaker 2: a highly effective technique. And I can't believe I didn't

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Speaker 2: do this sooner. This is a life changing practice. Time

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Speaker 2: boxing simply means that we are deciding what we do

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Speaker 2: in advance and when we do it. And so it's

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Speaker 2: just as simple as plotting out in your day what

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Speaker 2: your ideal day would look like. So and you're doing

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Speaker 2: this in advance. I mean, if there's one motto from

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Speaker 2: this book, I want everyone to remember, maybe tattoo it

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Speaker 2: on your arm or something. I think it'll be a

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Speaker 2: future tattoo is. The antidote for impulsiveness is forethought. The

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Speaker 2: antidote too impulsiveness is forethoughts. So it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 2: the tech companies throw at us, what the algorithms do,

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Speaker 2: None of that stuff matters. If we plan ahead, we

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Speaker 2: can do something that no other animal on earth can do,

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Speaker 2: which is to see the future with greater fidelity than

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Speaker 2: any other species. And so we can plan ahead for

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Speaker 2: these distractions. And that starts by making time on our

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Speaker 2: calendar to live at our values. So I have starting

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Speaker 2: at seven fifteen, breakfast until eight, and then I work

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Speaker 2: out from eight to nine, and then I have my

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Speaker 2: writing time from nine to eleven thirty, and then I

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Speaker 2: make and eat lunch from eleven thirty twelve thirty and

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Speaker 2: so on. So it's every minute of my day is

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Speaker 2: planned out. Now do I go off track? Of course

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Speaker 2: I do. But you can't even begin to ask what

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Speaker 2: is a distraction unless you know what it distracted you from.

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Speaker 2: So you have to have an allocation of time, or

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Speaker 2: you can't call anything a distraction because what did it

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Speaker 2: distract you from? You had a blank calendar. So this

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Speaker 2: technique is incredibly effective. Unfortunately, very few people do it

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Speaker 2: this technique. However, one group of people use this uses

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Speaker 2: this Almost one hundred percent of the people I interviewed

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Speaker 2: among this group use this technique. When I was doing

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Speaker 2: the research for the book, and these are sea level executives.

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Speaker 2: Without fail, every sea level executive I interviewed does this.

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Speaker 2: They walk around their entire day either on their phone

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Speaker 2: or on a piece paper with a printed schedule for

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Speaker 2: where they're supposed to be, what they're supposed to do

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Speaker 2: for every minute of their day. And it's an absolutely

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Speaker 2: essential technique. And the nice thing is it's relatively easy

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Speaker 2: to do. It takes you about thirty minutes to set

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Speaker 2: up the first time, and about fifteen minutes per week

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Speaker 2: to keep it updated for the week ahead. And in fact,

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Speaker 2: I'll give you a link in the show notes. I

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Speaker 2: built a tool because I kept getting asked for this.

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Speaker 2: I built a very very simple tool anyone can use

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Speaker 2: to make this weekly template so that they know what

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Speaker 2: their ideal week looks like.

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Speaker 3: Oh that sounds great. Yeah, I love the idea of that.

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Speaker 3: It's funny.

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Speaker 1: It's something I've started doing recently. I used to just like,

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Speaker 1: if you looked at my calendar, you would see from

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Speaker 1: eight am to noon basically blocked out.

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Speaker 3: It would just say deep work do not book.

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Speaker 1: Over and I would and then I'd have my deep

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Speaker 1: work to do list, and that is how I would

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Speaker 1: feel it. Bit inevitably, I would get distracted with other things.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I had Cal Newport on the show

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Speaker 1: a few months ago, and he's.

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Speaker 3: Definitely an ap of timeboxing.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I remember I started trying it naturally, just

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Speaker 1: blocking out Okay, write this article here and I think

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Speaker 1: that'll take about an hour and then do this there,

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Speaker 1: And it really does change your day and change the

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Speaker 1: way you do things. And then you know, I find

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Speaker 1: that I if I overestimate how long something is going

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Speaker 1: to go for in the dary, I just feel feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a win when I've achieved something

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Speaker 1: a little bit more quickly, and then I can move

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Speaker 1: something from the next day.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I found that incredibly effective.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, it's it's a very very effective technique and

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Speaker 2: it's so simple. It just requires a little bit of forethought.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's this myth that if you just put

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Speaker 2: something on a to do list, it'll get done. Right,

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Speaker 2: that's a lot of productivity books preaches put on to

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Speaker 2: do list and I'll get done. That's only half of

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Speaker 2: the solution. The other half. You can't just put down

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Speaker 2: output and what you put on to do list is output.

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Speaker 2: You also have to put down the input. Right if

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Speaker 2: you're a baker, you know, if a baker wants to

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Speaker 2: make a hundred loads of bread, they don't just write

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Speaker 2: down make a hundred loads of bread. They have to

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Speaker 2: think about the inputs. The bread, the flower, the staff,

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Speaker 2: the machinery, all those things are inputs. So as knowledge workers,

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Speaker 2: we put these things on our to do list, but

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Speaker 2: if you don't actually put it on your calendar, it's

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Speaker 2: not going to get done. You have to put on

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Speaker 2: your calendar.

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Speaker 3: Hello me again. I hope you found this chat useful.

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Speaker 1: I know that for me, a big change I made

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Speaker 1: after listening to this interview is that I put everything,

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Speaker 1: almost everything in my diary or my electronic calendar. So

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Speaker 1: rather than having just a blanket block of deep workbooked

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Speaker 1: in my mornings, I essentially book a series of meetings

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Speaker 1: with myself that are the deep work tasks that I

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Speaker 1: plan to do in my mornings. It's helped me stay

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Speaker 1: focused on what I need to do and just avoid

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Speaker 1: wasting time making decisions. So maybe you might want to

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Speaker 1: try that if you're not already doing that. So that

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Speaker 1: is it for today. If you liked this excerpt, you

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Speaker 1: might want to listen to my full chat with Neil,

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Speaker 1: which I linked to in the show notes. And if

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Speaker 1: you know someone that might enjoy how I work, why

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Speaker 1: not share this episode with them or tell them about

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Speaker 1: the podcast of the ways that this podcast has grown

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Speaker 1: quite a lot over the time that it has been

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Speaker 1: in existence, So thank you if you have shared it.

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Speaker 3: And if you haven't, maybe you might do that today.

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Speaker 3: So that's it for today and I'll see you next time.