1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily This is the 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Daily OS. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 2: the Daily OS. It's Wednesday, the first of October. I'm 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: Emma Gillespie. 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: Pinch and a punch for the first day of the month. 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: But who are you. 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm Philly fit Simons. 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: Buying your first home just got easier. The government hopes 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: its new home ownership scheme comes into effect from today, 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: allowing first time purchasers to secure a home with a 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: five percent deposit, down from the standard twenty percent. There 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: will no longer be income tests or limited places for 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: first home buyers under the scheme, but there will be 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 2: a limit on how much you can spend on a property, 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: with value caps depending on where you live. The government 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: says it wants to ensure more renters own a home, 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: but some experts are warning the initiative has already prompted 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: a property price search. We will explain everything you need 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: to know about this scheme in today's Deep Dive, right 21 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: after a quick word from our sponsor. 22 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: So m it is the first of October, and so 23 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: we have this new first home Buyers scheme coming into 24 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: effect as of today. Now I'm sure the listeners don't 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: need reminding about how the property market is and how 26 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: hard it is. Your barrier of entry is very high. 27 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: But for anyone who does need a reminder, do you 28 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: want to just give us some quick context. 29 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: In case you've been living under a ros or you've 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: just traveled here from the year nineteen eighty. Australia's property 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 2: market has skyrocketed in recent years, even in recent decades, 32 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: I think we can say, especially in our capital cities. 33 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: So the median dwelling price in Australia now sits at 34 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: around eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That's according to 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: the latest figures from Totality. 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: And when we say dwelling, that's apartments or homes. 37 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: Exactly property that you would live in home verus, apartment, townhouse, 38 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: semis whatever. Recent analysis by Finder of prop Track and 39 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: ABS loan data shows households with an average before tax 40 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: income of about one hundred thousand dollars per year are 41 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: currently priced out of eighty three percent of Australian suburbs. 42 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: So around the country, if you earn about one hundred grand, 43 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: you can maybe save up to buy in less than 44 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: twenty percent of the suburbs in the country. The average 45 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: home now costs almost ten times what the average Australian earns, 46 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: and to be able to afford a home in Sydney, 47 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: where property prices are the most expensive, you would need 48 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: to be earning close to two hundred and fifty k 49 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: after tax. Wow, all of this means that we are 50 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: borrowing a lot more money to buy a home, and 51 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 2: we need to have a pretty sizeable deposit to secure 52 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: a property in the first place. 53 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: And I feel like deposit is one of the first 54 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: kind of jargony words that we need to explain. So 55 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: what is a deposit? 56 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 2: So think of a deposit as a down payment on 57 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: the purchase of a property. So it's the amount of 58 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 2: money you need to have upfront to secure a home 59 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: or apartment. So most people will borrow the majority of 60 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: the purchase price from the bank or from a lender, 61 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: but deposits aren't usually something that people borrow from financial institutions, 62 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: so really they need to have that amount saved up 63 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: and ready to go before they want to buy a place. Typically, 64 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: banks want to see that you've been able to save 65 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: a twenty percent deposit. That's a kind of benchmark amount 66 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: that lenders like to see that you have saved before 67 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: they will approve you for a home loan, and that 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: tells them that you're at a low risk of not 69 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: being able to repay your mortgage, of defaulting on your payments. 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: So that has been the benchmark. It's not the case 71 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: across all lenders and banks. Some lenders and banks will 72 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: do a home loan with a ten percent deposit. 73 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: I was going to say, I always think of ten 74 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: percent as kind of what you definitely need. 75 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and at least here in New South Wales. It 76 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: depends on each state and territory. But you know, a 77 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: property contract will say a twenty percent deposit, you have 78 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: a right to negotiate that. You might negotiate that down 79 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: to ten or in some cases five percent. But when 80 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: we're talking about twenty percent, that's really about how safe 81 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 2: are you as a bet for a financial institution to 82 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: lend hundreds of thousands of dollars too. But that benchmark 83 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 2: changes today for first home buyers. 84 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: Okay, got it, So that's why we are talking about 85 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: this today. What exactly are those changes? 86 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: So first home buyers can now purchase a property with 87 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: a five percent deposit, lower than that usual down payment 88 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: of twenty percent, and this was a scheme that was 89 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: going to be rolled out next year, but Labor have 90 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: brought it forward. The government announced in August that it 91 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: was bringing this scheme forward and it's described the move 92 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: as a game changer for aspiring homeowners. 93 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: And so that five percent is that available to all 94 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: first home buyers or is it restricted because usually there 95 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: is kind of a cap on these kind of first 96 00:04:58,400 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: home buyers schemes. 97 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: So any buying their first home is eligible for this 98 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 2: five percent scheme, but the price of the property they 99 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: want to purchase matters here. So anyone can get the 100 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 2: five percent if it's their first home and if it 101 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: falls under a specific price. Those prices depend on the 102 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 2: city or region you're buying in, So for example, a 103 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: home in Sydney or Newcastle will be capped at one 104 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: point five million dollars. So you're a first home buyer, 105 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: you want to access the five percent deposit scheme, you 106 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 2: need to buy something that costs one point five million 107 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 2: or less. Say you buy something that's one point six million, 108 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: you won't be eligible for the five percent deposit. In 109 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: regional Western Australia, homes will be capped at six hundred 110 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: thousand dollars for the five percent scheme. So that gives 111 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: you a bit of a sense of the kind of 112 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: dynamic capped pricing that the government's rolling out in different 113 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: states and territories and regions. 114 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: And just doing some quick mass here. So if there 115 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: is that cap of six hundred thousand dollars in Western 116 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: Australia with a five percent deposit, that means that you 117 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: need up to thirty thousand dollars in order to purchase 118 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: that property exactly. 119 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: So in your savings account, thirty thousand dollars ready to go, 120 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: compared to, let me do some quick maths, one hundred 121 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: and twenty thousand dollars to purchase the same property. Got it. 122 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 2: The government is also, as part of this scheme announcing 123 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: that it will cover lenders mortgage insurance. 124 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: Yes, another jargony word. What does that mean? 125 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 2: So banks and lenders usually require buyers who don't have 126 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: a twenty percent deposit to pay for lenders mortgage insurance. So, 127 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 2: like I said previously, first time home buyers have been 128 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: able to negotiate in some instances a five or a 129 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: ten percent deposit, but they would have paid this thing 130 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: lenders mortgage insurance. This is basically a safety net full 131 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 2: banks or whoever is providing the loan in case the 132 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 2: buyer struggles to pay off their home loan in the 133 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: future or sells their property at a lower value than 134 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: when it was purchased. So the bank takes out this 135 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: insurance policy itself, but it requires buyers to pay the 136 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: insurance bill, which can run into tens of thousands of dollars. 137 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: So the government now from today will become a guarranteur 138 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: for the lenders insurance, meaning a new homeowner won't have 139 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: to pay for it. And in terms of what that 140 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: looks like in a dollar value for a one million 141 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: dollar property, Treasury figures show the average insurance savings with 142 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: a five percent deposit will be around forty one thousand dollars. 143 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: Got it, And I know that at the start you 144 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,679 Speaker 1: mentioned that there has been some criticism that this could 145 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: potentially actually push up the prices, which is kind of 146 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: exactly the opposite of what it's trying to do. What 147 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: has the opposition said about this announcement? 148 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: There has been a lot of speculation in this area 149 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: around this topic. Billy Shadow Housing Minister Senator Andrew Bragg 150 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: has called the policy bizarre and ridiculous. He thinks it's 151 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: kind of wild that the scheme is open to all 152 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: first time buyers, and he has criticized the government's lack 153 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: of policy to address supply challenges. Andrew Bragg said, quote, 154 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: this is an uncapped scheme which is available to billionaires 155 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: or the children of billionaires if they want to use 156 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: a government program. The taxpayer is underwriting mortgage insurance schemes 157 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: for extremely wealthy people, he said. The Greens have also 158 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: criticized Labour's home guarantee scheme. They've said that it won't 159 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: ease the housing crisis, but quote it will pour fuel 160 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: on the fire. 161 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: Those are quite strong words. What do experts say so? 162 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: According to analysis by real estate dot com dot a U, 163 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: property prices jumped by up to fifty thousand dollars in September, 164 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 2: which the Real Estate Buyers Agents Association has tied to 165 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: this idea of panic buying. It says that that has 166 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: been fueled by new first homeowners and investors kind of 167 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: rushing to secure property before this scheme is rolled out, 168 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: and that industry body is actually predicting increased competition to 169 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: continue between first home buyers and investors. This very competitive 170 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 2: sector of the property market looking for entry level family homes. 171 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: Is there any modeling that has been done to suggest 172 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: that this increase in prices will continue? 173 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: So Labor is forecasting that the five percent deposit guarantee 174 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: will lift national prices by about half a percent over 175 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: six years. But as the Coalition flagged, the Reserve Bank 176 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 2: of Australia as well has noted that there isn't really 177 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: an adequate supply of housing stock to meet current demand, 178 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: let alone a surgeon demand that could come from this scheme. 179 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: So most estimates, including from Treasury, suggest that the policy 180 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,359 Speaker 2: will bring forward more purchases and increase the borrowing capacity 181 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: for first home buyers. So RBA Governor Michelle Bullock has 182 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: said that Australia really needs a better response to the 183 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 2: supply issue. Now. The government has a target to build 184 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: one point two million new homes by twenty twenty nine, 185 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 2: but the latest figures expect that that is going to 186 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: be missed. That target will be undercut by about three 187 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dwellings by twenty twenty nine. 188 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: And I know you just mentioned the RBA. Have they 189 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: said anything about if there will be an economic impact, 190 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: Because if we have more people buying, we then have 191 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: more people borrowing from banks exactly. 192 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 2: So the RBA's Assistant Governor, Brad Jones, he has said 193 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: that the Central Bank is forecasting the overall housing credit 194 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 2: now that's the total value of home loans provided by 195 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: financial lenders, to increase by one to two percent, So 196 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: we will be borrowing and expected one to two percent 197 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 2: more in terms of the total pool of home loans. 198 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: He told a parliamentary committee last month. Quote you may 199 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: see a little more upward pressure on house prices in 200 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: the short term, recognizing the first home buyers account for 201 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: about twenty percent of the flow of new housing credit. 202 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: Greenshousing spokesperson Senator Barbara Pocock has called it reckless for 203 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: the government to encourage first home buyers to spend more 204 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 2: than they can realistically afford. So she said, quote, borrowing 205 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: ninety five percent of a mortgage when homes at eight 206 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: times the average household income is a recipe for financial stress, 207 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: not stability. 208 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: Well, so there is a lot of criticism about this 209 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: policy that is now in effect. Yeah, where does it 210 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: kind of leave us? 211 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: So there is really a lot of talk about the 212 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: short term implications of this change. So you know, this weekend, 213 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: analysts will be watching really closely to see if house 214 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 2: prices increase nationally. You know how auction clearance rates may 215 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 2: or may not be impacted. But in the medium term, 216 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: Treasury estimates an uplift in housing supply in response to 217 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: the extra demand, which would hypothetically see house prices stabilize. 218 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: But that really is a big if. Ultimately, the government 219 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: says this is all about leveling the playing field for 220 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: a new generation of home buyers. The Housing Minister, Clare 221 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: O'Neil says that these smaller deposits will mean more people 222 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: can get into their own home sooner. But I want 223 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: to finish on this quote from the National Housing Supply 224 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: and Affordability Council chair Susan Lloyd Hurwitz. She really summed 225 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 2: it up when she told the ABC the policy could 226 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 2: have an upwards impact on prices, but that it probably 227 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 2: needs to be tested to see what happens to demand 228 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: and therefore what happens to prices. Billy, there is a 229 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: lot of uncertainty, but we will just have to wait 230 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: and see. 231 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: I feel like we end every podcast by saying, well, 232 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot to keep an eye on, and this 233 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: is no different. There is a lot to keep an eye. 234 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 2: Exactly, and I think you know, we've got all sides 235 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: of politics with very strong opinions on this meantime, you know, 236 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: we know that housing is in a crisis state across 237 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: the country. I don't think anyone disagrees that something needs 238 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: to be done, but it's how we do it that's 239 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: really in contemption. 240 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: It is such a fine balancing act to get this right. 241 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: And thank you so much for explaining it. Thank you, 242 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: and thank you so much for listening to this episode 243 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: of The Daily Oz. We'll be back this afternoon with 244 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: your evening headlines, but until then, enjoy your home day. 245 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 246 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: Banjelung Calkatin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily Oz acknowledges 247 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 248 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate 249 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: island and nations. We pay our respects to the first 250 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: peoples of these countries, both past and present.