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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. Happy Friday.

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Speaker 2: It's Friday, the twenty fifth of November. I'm Sam and

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Speaker 2: joining me direct from Parliament House today is Tom Crowley.

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Speaker 3: Sam.

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Speaker 2: The Supreme Court in New Zealand has found that the

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Speaker 2: voting age of eighteen is discriminatory.

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Speaker 3: Unjustified age discrimination.

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Speaker 2: That's the Supreme Court's ruling on our voting There have

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Speaker 2: no good reason for eighteen to be the legal age

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Speaker 2: and that it breaches the Bill of Rights. The Parliament

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Speaker 2: will now need to decide how to proceed. But as

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Speaker 2: our neighbors look at whether sixteen and seventeen year old

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Speaker 2: should have the right to Australia is about to embark

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Speaker 2: on a debate of our life. So what's the latest

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Speaker 2: and how likely is real reform We're going to get

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Speaker 2: into that in the Deep Dive, but first Tom, what's

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Speaker 2: making headlines this morning?

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Speaker 3: We'll say m's start in Parliament House, where a bill

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Speaker 3: to pass the National Anti Corruption Commission into law is

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Speaker 3: one step closer after it went through the House of

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Speaker 3: Representatives yesterday. Now it's just got to go through the

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Speaker 3: Senate and it'll be law. There are still some disagreements

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Speaker 3: among parliamentarians about the exact structure, with cross benches putting

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Speaker 3: forward some amendments to make it easier to hold public hearings.

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Speaker 2: The UK Supreme Court has ruled that a potential Scottish

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Speaker 2: independence referendum must be staged with the approval of the

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Speaker 2: UK Parliament. The court sided with the view of the

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Speaker 2: UK Government, finding that the authority to put on a

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Speaker 2: referendum falls outside of the Scottish Parliament's remit. Scotland First

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Speaker 2: Minister Nicolas Sturgeon said the ruling quote blocks one route

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Speaker 2: to Scotland's voice being heard, but she affirms that her

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Speaker 2: government would continue seeking a referendum on independence.

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Speaker 3: Well back to federal politics and the federal government has

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Speaker 3: announced its response to the destruction of the Duke and

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Speaker 3: Gorge in twenty twenty it was destroyed an explosion by

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Speaker 3: Rio Tinto. It was a site of cultural significance for

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Speaker 3: the traditional owners and the source of a lot of

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Speaker 3: outrage at the time. The government was responding to a

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Speaker 3: parliamentary committee that suggested how legislative arrangements could be made

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Speaker 3: better to protect culturally significant sites for First Nations people.

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Speaker 3: These reforms are not about stopping development or halting progress.

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Speaker 1: They're about redressing an imbalance, our oldest imbalance.

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Speaker 2: And your Friday good news. The winner of the seventh

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Speaker 2: season of the AFL W will be decided on Sunday

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Speaker 2: when the Brisbane Lions and Melbourne Demons play each other

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Speaker 2: up in Queensland. The match is a sellout. That's awesome

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Speaker 2: news and comes after the AFL froze ticket prices at

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Speaker 2: ten dollars each for adults and made them free for

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Speaker 2: concession holders and children. Without getting into buzz where, it's

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Speaker 2: why we should lower the voting age. Equality, equity, accountability fainness,

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Speaker 2: a campaign to lower the voting age to sixteen in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand, has had a landmark victory this week. The

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court of New Zealand found the voting age of

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Speaker 2: eighteen is discriminatory, and this has prompted their government to

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Speaker 2: start drafting legislation to try and change the voting age

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Speaker 2: down to sixteen. Tom, thanks for joining us this morning

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Speaker 2: from is it colden camera? It's always cold and camera. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: thanks for joining us from cold Camera. We're going to

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Speaker 2: talk today about the implications of that kind of change

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Speaker 2: and whether it's likely to succeed both here and over

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Speaker 2: the ditch. Should we begin with where this all started.

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Speaker 3: So, Sam, it started with the advocacy of a group

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Speaker 3: called Make It Sixteen in New Zealand. They describe themselves

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Speaker 3: as a non partisan group and since twenty nineteen they've

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Speaker 3: been advocating for the vote to be extended down from

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Speaker 3: eighteen years of age to sixteen years of age. And

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Speaker 3: it's culminated in a big court case which we heard

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Speaker 3: the results of this week.

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Speaker 2: Tell me more about that court case.

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Speaker 3: So, Sam mc kinnor rested on a technicality. So New

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Speaker 3: Zealand's electoral laws, just like ours, say that you can

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Speaker 3: only vote if you're eighteen years of age or older.

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Speaker 3: But New Zealand also has a Bill of Rights which

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Speaker 3: protects its citizens against a number of different forms of discrimination,

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Speaker 3: and one of those is age discrimination. Now, you can

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Speaker 3: discriminate against children. There are sort of lots of reasons

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Speaker 3: like child protection for example, why you might want to

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Speaker 3: do that. But the New Zealand Bill of Rights ensures

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Speaker 3: that anyone over the age of sixteen can't be discriminated

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Speaker 3: against on the basis of age. And essentially, what the

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Speaker 3: lawyers argued here is that denying sixteen and seventeen year

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Speaker 3: old's the right to vote was inconsistent with this Bill

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Speaker 3: of Rights, that it was a form of age discrimination.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that seems to make sense to me. How did

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Speaker 2: that argument hold up in court? So it's been a

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Speaker 2: bit of a long running battle. They first filed in

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. In twenty twenty, they were rebuffed, they appealed,

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Speaker 2: and then that got dismissed, and finally, though in July

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Speaker 2: of this year, they applied to the Supreme Court and

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Speaker 2: this week we heard the judgment. The Supreme Court ruled

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Speaker 2: that they were right that these electoral rules are actually

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Speaker 2: inconsistent with the right to be free from age discrimination. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So what happens next. If the court has made that decision,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't necessarily mean that every sixteen year old in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand can suddenly go out and vote right.

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Speaker 3: No, it doesn't. So it doesn't automatically change the electoral law.

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Speaker 3: But it basically does require the New Zealand Parliament to

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Speaker 3: consider how they're going to resolve this inconsistency. So Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister just sind Radan has flagged the cabinet's going to

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Speaker 3: draft legislation to extend the vote to sixteen and seventeen

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Speaker 3: year olds and then present that to Parliament to be

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Speaker 3: considered and voted on. Now, we don't exactly know how

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Speaker 3: that's going to go. Adurn emphasized that this was early

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Speaker 3: days that the government itself, her government hadn't even decided

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Speaker 3: exactly what it thought of the issue yet, so there's

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Speaker 3: a little bit to play out here. But certainly what

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Speaker 3: this court ruling means is that New Zealand's Parliament will

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Speaker 3: at least consider the idea that sixteen and seventeen year

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Speaker 3: olds should vote. Now, it's a pretty high bar to

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Speaker 3: change this electoral law in New Zealand. They need something

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Speaker 3: called a super majority, which means that not just you know,

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Speaker 3: greater than half of the parliament has to vote for it,

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Speaker 3: but seventy five percent of their Parliament needs to vote

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Speaker 3: in favor of a change, so it is a pretty

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Speaker 3: high bar and there's a long way to go before

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Speaker 3: New Zealand might plausibly actually extend the vote to sixteen

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Speaker 3: and seventeen year olds, but it certainly bumped its prominence

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Speaker 3: on the agenda.

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Speaker 2: And Tom, what's your read on the political support for

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Speaker 2: this kind of decision in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll start with the Prime Minister to Sinda Ardan

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Speaker 3: so I said before that she wasn't sure exactly what

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Speaker 3: her government's approach would be, but personally she's in favor.

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Speaker 2: I personally support a decrease in the voting age.

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Speaker 3: The journalist did ask her if her stance on this

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Speaker 3: was political.

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Speaker 1: Jaker Bosch's disproportionately vote for the lift, so is that

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Speaker 1: given this up?

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Speaker 2: But let's be.

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Speaker 3: Really clear, whatever decides this will not take a fit

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Speaker 3: for the nixt election. I guess beyond Dardurn though it's

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Speaker 3: fair to say that there's not definitely widespread supporter. There's

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Speaker 3: still a lot of water to go into the bridge,

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Speaker 3: but to get that seventy five percent, at least at

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Speaker 3: the moment, that looks unlikely.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting that if this does happen,

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Speaker 2: it'll be because of a technicality.

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Speaker 3: It's fascinating, isn't it that in the end the court

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Speaker 3: case that found that there was this inconsistency rested on

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Speaker 3: I guess, what's a little bit of a technicality that technically,

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Speaker 3: you know, you can argue this is a form of

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Speaker 3: age discrimination. Certainly, when that Bill of Rights was written

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Speaker 3: in that way, I don't think you'd imagine that anyone

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Speaker 3: intended or imagined that it would be taken to apply

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Speaker 3: to sixteen and seventeen year olds voting. But then here

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Speaker 3: we are looking at that law and when you look

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Speaker 3: at it, clearly the court decided that you could read

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Speaker 3: it that way, and funnily enough, it's not the first time.

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Speaker 3: So I don't want to get us too distracted, Sam,

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Speaker 3: But just a little bit of a story time here,

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Speaker 3: which is that in Australian history, if you go back

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Speaker 3: before Federation, back when we're in the days of colonies,

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Speaker 3: some of the first digs examples of women being able

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Speaker 3: to vote were also on technicality. So basically the way

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Speaker 3: that the law was written in terms of who was

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Speaker 3: able to vote was built around the idea of people

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Speaker 3: who own property rate paying people, and at the time,

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Speaker 3: no one really imagined that that was ever going to

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Speaker 3: apply to women. It was just sort of assumed that

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Speaker 3: women didn't vote. But some women, for example, Fanny Finch

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Speaker 3: was the name of one of the pioneers, who said, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm a rate paying person, I should be able to vote,

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Speaker 3: and she was and she was allowed to vote. And

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Speaker 3: so there was again this sort of technicality where maybe

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Speaker 3: the letter of the law it hadn't occurred to anyone

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Speaker 3: that it could be interpreted in that way. But this

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Speaker 3: kind of big historical progress there in terms of women

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Speaker 3: suffrage was achieved again at first on a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a technicality.

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Speaker 2: So what's the loophole for teenagers in Australia right now?

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Speaker 3: We don't have one, really, we don't have a Bill

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Speaker 3: of rights, and there isn't anything, for example, in Australia's

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Speaker 3: Constitution that you could clearly point to to kind of

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Speaker 3: force this one through. So instead it's going to rely

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Speaker 3: on just the regular way that any law changes in Australia,

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Speaker 3: which is Parliament deciding to vote on it. In Australia,

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Speaker 3: we only need a simple majority. We don't need this

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Speaker 3: seventy five percent thing, but it would take I guess

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Speaker 3: a majority vote in both houses of Parliament. There's not

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Speaker 3: necessarily any suggestion that's going to happen yet, but especially

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Speaker 3: with all of this stuff in the news in New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: there has been a little bit of talk about it

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Speaker 3: in parliament this week.

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Speaker 2: Interesting where's that chat been coming from and what would

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Speaker 2: the consequences be of sixteen seventeen year olds being able

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Speaker 2: to vote?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 3: So, and the push has been coming from two places,

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Speaker 3: the Greens and also Independent Monique Ryan, who's the MP

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Speaker 3: for Kujong in Melbourne. Both of them have so the

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Speaker 3: Greens have had a proposal going for quite a while

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Speaker 3: to extend the vote to sixteen year olds and seventeen

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Speaker 3: year olds. Monique Ryan has promised that she'll introduce a

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Speaker 3: bill of her own, pushing to do that early next year.

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Speaker 3: It's fantasy. The government hasn't officially ruled it out. They

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Speaker 3: said they've never kind of officially had a stance on it.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, the government certainly hasn't come

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Speaker 3: out in support of the idea and isn't pushing the

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Speaker 3: idea itself. And in terms of the political consequen and

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Speaker 3: I think it's an interesting one, right because you know,

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Speaker 3: you can have this argument about whether sixteen and seventeen

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Speaker 3: year olds are you know, informed citizens. For example, you

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Speaker 3: can make an argument that in terms of teaching people

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Speaker 3: how to vote and introducing them to voting, you do

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Speaker 3: it while they're at high school and it's managed through

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Speaker 3: their schools and that sort of thing. You know, there

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Speaker 3: are lots of kind of in principal arguments, especially young

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Speaker 3: people who are so interested in climate change and issues

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Speaker 3: of the future, who say, we want to have a stake,

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Speaker 3: I care, I understand the issues. I want to be

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Speaker 3: able to vote. It's interesting, though, when you look at

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Speaker 3: the particular parties that are pushing this, because you know,

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Speaker 3: one thing we do know is that young people overwhelmingly

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Speaker 3: do vote for progressive parties. So when you look at

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Speaker 3: kind of studies of how people vote by age in elections.

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Speaker 3: So the AMU does this study every election, and in

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Speaker 3: the twenty nineteen election, forty four percent of eighteen to

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Speaker 3: twenty four year old So I guess kind of the

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Speaker 3: closest age cohort, we've got forty four percent of them

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Speaker 3: voted Labor and thirty seven percent voted for the Green,

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Speaker 3: So that's eighty one percent of the population who are

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Speaker 3: voting for Labor or the Green, which I guess suggests

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Speaker 3: you know, I mean, apart from anything else, if you

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Speaker 3: did extend the vote to sixteen and seventeen year olds,

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Speaker 3: it would be a significant benefit for progressive parties in Australia.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's such a reason to do it

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Speaker 3: or not to do it. I guess I come back

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Speaker 3: to the fact that the New Zealand movement was really

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Speaker 3: keen to point out that they were non parties and

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Speaker 3: it wasn't about supporting a particular side of politics, just

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Speaker 3: about allowing sixteen and seventeen year olds to vote whoever

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Speaker 3: they may vote for. But I guess it's inescapable when

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Speaker 3: we talk about these things. I guess just the cynical

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Speaker 3: reality of it that politicians will be attuned to the

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Speaker 3: electoral consequences of their decisions, and certainly that decision would

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Speaker 3: be probably more likely on balance to favor parties like

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Speaker 3: the Greens, who were at the forefront of pushing for it.

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Speaker 2: Speaking for sixteen year old Sam at the moment in

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Speaker 2: the political nerd of me deep in my adolescence would

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Speaker 2: have loved to go into a booth by myself and

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Speaker 2: vote instead of going in with my dad.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, sixteen year old Tom would have been all over it.

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Speaker 3: I would have loved to vote when I was that age.

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Speaker 2: But the last we were deprived and we had to

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Speaker 2: wait out until eighteen, just like my first kids. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so thanks so much for joining us on the Daily ODS. Tom.

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Speaker 2: You're sticking around in Canberra next week and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: we'll chat to you then.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Sam, goodbye. I'm glad you got that first kiss eventually.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS this week.

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Speaker 2: If you learned something from today's episode, I know I did.

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Speaker 2: There's a quick and easy way to help us keep

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Speaker 2: you do your podcast listening. We'll be back again on Monday.

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Speaker 2: Have a great weekend.