1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: As a listener of how I work. 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 2: You've hopefully picked up a few tips on this show 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 2: to help you work better? 4 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: But do you want more? And maybe in a book form, 5 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: because let's face it, books are the most awesome thing 6 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: on the planet. 7 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: Well, now you can. In my new book, time Wise, 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: I uncover a wealth of proven strategies that anyone can 9 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: use to improve their productivity, work, and lifestyle. Time Wise 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: brings together all of the gems that I've learned from 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 2: conversations with the world's greatest thinkers, including Adam Grant, Dan Pink, 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: Mia Friedman, and Turia. 13 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: Pitt and many many others. Time Wise is launching on. 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 2: July five, but you can pre order it now from 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: Amantha dot com. And if you pre order time Wise, 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: I have a couple of bonuses for you. First, you'll 17 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: receive an ebook that details my top twenty favorite apps 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: and software for being time wise with email, calendar, passwords, reading, 19 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: cooking ideas, and more. You will also get a complementary 20 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: spot in a webinar that I'm running on June twenty nine, 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: where I will be sharing the tactics from time Wise 22 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: that I use most often, and also some bonus ones 23 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 2: that are not in the book that I use and love. 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: Hop onto Amantha dot com to pre order now. As 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: a podcast makeup, I try to have an active and 26 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: diverse podcast diet. I'll cycle through everything from true crime 27 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: to current affairs to comedy. But if some strange rule 28 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 2: came into being and I was only allowed to listen 29 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: to just one podcast, it would be MoMA Mia out Loud. 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: I started listening to it during the pandemic and I 31 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: never stopped. It's like listening to three really insightful and 32 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: articulate girlfriends talk about stuff that's going. 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: On in the world. It's like a guilty pleasure without 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: the guilt. 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: So really it's just a pleasure and I'm definitely not 36 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: alone as I'm recording this introduction. Mumma MEA Out Loud 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: is the fifth most popular show on the Apple podcast 38 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: charts here in Australia, and their most recent episode is 39 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 2: sitting at number two in the episode charts, and another 40 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: recent episode is at number six, and there's another one 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: at number twenty four. So basically, Mumma MEA Out Loud 42 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: is one of the most popular and most consistently popular 43 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: podcasts running. Part of the appeal is that the show 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: comes out three times a week, which sounds like an 45 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: ungodly amount of work, especially because the hosts are three 46 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: incredibly busy women. Mia Friedman's the co founder of the 47 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: Muma Mea women's media company, Holly Wayne writes the head 48 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: of content at mumma Mia, and Jesse Stevens is Muma 49 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: MEA's executive editor. All three of my guests also host 50 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: other podcasts across the Mumamea network, and all three are 51 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: best selling authors. So how do three of the busiest 52 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: people on the player to pull themselves together to record 53 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: three episodes about loud per week plus two for subscribers. 54 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: How do they decide what they're going to talk about 55 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: each time and what goes on behind the scenes of 56 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 2: one of Australia's favorite podcasts. 57 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: My name is doctor Amantha Immer. 58 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science 59 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work, a show 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: about how to help you do your best work. It's 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: easy to think that all a podcast involves is just 62 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: sitting in a studio talking for the length of the episode, 63 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: say forty minutes, and then posting the sound files up 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: onto the podcast app that you are listening to this 65 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 2: on right now, but it's so much more than that, 66 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: and I wanted to know how do Maya, Holly and Jesse, 67 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: three incredibly busy women, manage to prep for and record 68 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: three episodes of Mama Miya out Loud every week, along 69 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: with two additional episodes every week that are just for 70 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: Mother and mea subscribers. 71 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: On the day that we are releasing the show, we 72 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: get together and plan. Before that, we will have already 73 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 3: exchanged several ideas digitally, so we know broadly what the 74 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: producer is going to bring to us and say we 75 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: should do this. So three times a week we sit 76 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: down in the studio or as we are today, remotely 77 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 3: from home and record the shows. So we record the 78 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: subscriber episodes usually on either a Monday or a Wednesday 79 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 3: in a block, but it depends because sometimes something exciting 80 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: will happen and we need to talk about it, so 81 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: will jump in and put that on the back of 82 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 3: another episode. But generally speaking, on out loud days, that's 83 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 3: our priority in our calendars to put aside the time 84 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 3: to plan, prep and record. 85 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: So, Mia, how do you decide on the topics because, 86 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 2: like some of the topics are very much front and 87 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: center in the news, whereas others seem to be random 88 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: articles that you guys have read. So how does that 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: topic selection happen? 90 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 4: I suppose the ultimate filter for us is the same 91 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 4: the same filter that mumum the website has, which is 92 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 4: what women are talking about today. And of course women 93 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 4: aren't just talking about the news, you know, And I 94 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 4: think that's something that we've always understood and really leaned into. 95 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 4: So women might be talking about a conversation, they've had 96 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 4: a celebrity story, the election, or manner of things, and 97 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 4: so it has to be something that either we feel 98 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 4: like we want to talk about. I mean, that has 99 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 4: to be the first thing. At least one of us 100 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 4: has to be really excited about talking about it. There 101 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 4: are certain things that everyone expects us to talk about 102 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 4: if there's a story that's massively in the news, but 103 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 4: we always say, what can we bring to it because 104 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 4: we're not a news podcast, that's not what we do. 105 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 4: So we don't do explainers of what's happening in Ukraine. 106 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 4: So we find we'll find a way into talking about Ukraine, 107 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 4: and of course we will acknowledge it because women are 108 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 4: talking about it, but we won't try to keep everybody 109 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: across all the top stories of the day. We've got 110 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 4: another podcast called The Quiki that does that twice a day. 111 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 4: It's our news podcast. And yeah, because we've been working 112 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 4: together for a really long time, we're all very good 113 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 4: at self editing as we go. Without wanting to compare 114 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 4: us to Oprah. I was once watching Oprah Live when 115 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 4: she was in Australia. I was in the audience and 116 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 4: watched Oprah Live and she wasn't I was in the audience. 117 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 4: She wasn't broadcasting live. It was for a pre recorded show, 118 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 4: but it was fascinating to watch her because you could 119 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 4: see her there was not a lot of fat. You 120 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 4: could see her editing as she spoke. She was thinking 121 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 4: about how it was going to be, how the package 122 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 4: was going to be. She would speak, just tell that 123 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 4: she was kind of self editing as she went. And 124 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 4: I think because the three of us are also editors, 125 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 4: we're not just writers, we know how to do that. 126 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 4: So whether it's editing our own thoughts, making sure we 127 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 4: give you our wonderful producer Emma. 128 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 5: A good end line. 129 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 4: We haven't always been good at this, but we're better 130 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 4: and better at it, so it requires less and less editing. 131 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 5: We would like to think it's. 132 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: Interesting what Mia was saying around how you're all editors 133 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: and you're kind of like you're working in your podcast 134 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: with sort of segments that seem to be maybe between 135 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: about sort of six to eight minutes, and I guess, 136 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: how do you pace yourselves in terms of knowing how 137 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: quickly to get in and then how to get out 138 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: in time? 139 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 5: Where it's a work in progress. 140 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 4: Holly and I have a habit of saying the same 141 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 4: thing a few times. We're better at it now, but 142 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 4: in a slightly different way. So it's like we all 143 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 4: thought of a better way to say exactly, whereas Jesse 144 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 4: is much better at just being concise about what she 145 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 4: thinks and then moving on. So our producer will always 146 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 4: when we can sometimes get to a point in a 147 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 4: topic where we'll just be talking around and we'll all 148 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 4: just be repeating ourselves, and that's where she'll wind us up. 149 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 4: But we sort of naturally feel how long a segment 150 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 4: is now. 151 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 6: And it's really awkward at the end of a segment 152 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 6: to Holly will say something and then we all know 153 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 6: that we need to take a beat where we just 154 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 6: awkwardly look at each other and let the silence fall. 155 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 6: A lot of people think the podcast is just having 156 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 6: a prolonged conversation. 157 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 7: It isn't. 158 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 6: No one wants to hear you meander, No one wants 159 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 6: to hear you sort of bumble through something. I think 160 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 6: they do want to hear you think. But at the 161 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 6: same time, we're very aware of when something's beginning to 162 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 6: lose steam and you've just got to go okay. Me 163 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 6: as having the last line on that, we can hear 164 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 6: the ending coming and we'll all just look at each 165 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 6: other and go silent. And that's not something we could 166 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 6: five four or five years ago. But I think through 167 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 6: practice we've gotten much better. 168 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 3: We're not actually super strict on exactly how long every 169 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: segment needs to be, because, as both me and Jesse 170 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: were just saying, when you can feel the steam going 171 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 3: out of it, you pull away. But equally, when it's 172 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 3: great and it's getting more momentum and you can tell 173 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 3: this is a really good conversation, one of the beautiful 174 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 3: things about podcasts is we can lean into that and 175 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: let it go. It's not breakfast radio where you have 176 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: to explain something complicated in three minutes all you're out. 177 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 3: I mean, that's one of the things we really want 178 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 3: to be able to do is to be able to 179 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 3: pick apart things and lean into them when they're needed. 180 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: So it's like in real time we kind of have 181 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 3: to gauge how good we are. 182 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: And like, how do you do that? 183 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: Sounds like a stupid question, but like, how do you 184 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: know are how good are you? Like, well, how do 185 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: you know in all serious how do you know if 186 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: a segment's going well? And you should be like, you know, 187 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: continuing to like go down that route, Jessie, I. 188 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 6: Think we are very honest with each other, and we 189 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 6: also protect each other, which has been a real gift 190 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 6: of the podcast. Something will slip out of one of 191 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 6: our mouth and we'll go careful with that phrase, careful 192 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 6: with that word, which can feel quite sometimes you can 193 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 6: feel very defensive at the time because that's not how 194 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 6: you meant it. But because we are editors and writers, 195 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 6: one shoe is that you're in the podcast speaking, and 196 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 6: the other foot is in another shoe, which is the listener, 197 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 6: And so we're listening as we go. We're getting incredible 198 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 6: feedback from an amazing producer who's saying that was interesting. 199 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 7: That wasn't. 200 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 6: We take feedback really seriously. We get emails, we get reviews. 201 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 6: We have the out Louders group. They'll tell us when 202 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 6: we're crap, when we're not on our game, we will 203 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 6: get tenn email saying you're not on your game, Jesse, 204 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 6: you were flat mea terrible argument there, Holly, you're rambling, 205 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 6: they tell us, which is just fabulous. Yeah, but we 206 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 6: must say I think we've left it in a few 207 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 6: times where we'll finish a segment, we'll go, we're so. 208 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 7: Smart, and then we look at each other going. 209 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 3: Oh, that was so good, especially if we probably enjoyed it, 210 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 3: because we do genuinely love talking to each other. That 211 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 3: sounds really cheesy, but if the three of us are 212 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 3: in the back of a number or having dinner, will 213 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: we can't stop ourselves from going on about whatever. Sometimes 214 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: you know we'll be really feeling the enjoyment of that conversation, 215 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 3: and so we do just go that was great. And 216 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: sometimes you look at mspace, our producer, and it's like, 217 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 3: was it. 218 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 6: Though we're also very very data led, so our views 219 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 6: of whether something is working is a trajectory of a 220 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 6: podcast should always be you're accumulating more listeners, and if 221 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 6: you are losing listeners, they didn't get something from the 222 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 6: last episode they wanted. That's very clear. We look at 223 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 6: first day listens, we look a second day listens, we look. 224 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 7: At week months. We're so stuck in the. 225 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 6: Data that I think we can tell, oh, you know what, 226 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 6: We've actually done too much election, We've done too much COVID. 227 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 6: And after this episode on the third of April, people 228 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 6: started to go, I'm going to give it a break. 229 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 6: And we've got you an incredible team that helps us 230 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 6: interpret that data. But we're very wedded to that and metrics. 231 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 6: I think they're really helpful. 232 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: Something I'm always like, I always get quite excited about 233 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: when I listened to Mama Mia out loud. Just the 234 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: interesting articles that you guys find from all over the world. 235 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: I'd love to know me or where, Like where are 236 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: your go to. 237 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 2: Sources for finding great content that you then explore on 238 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: the show. 239 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 5: That's a great question. 240 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 4: We're all just voraciously curious. I think that's something that 241 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 4: we share. And we're also when I say widely read, 242 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 4: I mean widely read, like we all cast our nets 243 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 4: very wide in terms of what we're interested in. And 244 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 4: the different places that will go. I can't speak for 245 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 4: Holly and Jesse, but I just follow my nose, follow 246 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 4: my curiosity. Obviously, I subscribe to IDM, I subscribe to dms, 247 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 4: I visit homepages. I don't get my content from social media, 248 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 4: because well, I do occasionally, but I just find that 249 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: the algorithm is too limiting, and I don't want to outsource. 250 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 5: My news or my content to meta. 251 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 4: I would prefer to go hunt for it rather than 252 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 4: sit there and passively have an algorithm serve it to me. 253 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: Which edms are your must read ones than Maya? 254 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 4: The New York Times has a really great personalization feature, 255 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 4: which is an algorithm in itself. So listen to my hypocrisy, 256 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 4: But I find that it surfaces a good, you. 257 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 5: Know, variety of content. 258 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 4: I also follow a number of different substacks just by 259 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 4: individual writers, and I try to make sure I again 260 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 4: cast it wide, so some of them will be political, 261 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 4: some of them will be sort of social justice minded, 262 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 4: some of them will be gossip minded. You know, we're 263 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 4: all very content agnostic in the content that we consume. 264 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: How about you, Holly, do you have any favorite places? 265 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 3: I'm much more low brow than Jesse and a like 266 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: MEAs straddles both sides of the low and high. So 267 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 3: I'm often looking at I mean, obviously I follow EDMS too, 268 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: and I've got various that I love, but I also 269 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: will I will always also just look at the sort 270 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: of more tabloid news sites to see what the conversation 271 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: is in terms of what the things are that people 272 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: are seeing and talking about. I will also, for that 273 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 3: same reason, usually have a bit of an ear about 274 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 3: what are people talking about on commercial radio, what are 275 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 3: people talking about on breakfast television. Jesse's more Twitter, so 276 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 3: she can often bring that perspective. But I think it's 277 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 3: important we want that mix of bringing these really interesting 278 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: gems that we do, but also kind of really understanding 279 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 3: what people are thinking and saying or hearing elsewhere about 280 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 3: a particular topic that we can maybe show another side to. 281 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 3: So I've always said, back from my journalism training days, 282 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: they used to be this. We had this great tutor 283 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 3: that I loved, and he used to tell us every day, 284 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 3: read a tabloid and a broadsheet, read a newspaper that 285 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 3: you disagree with and one that you agree with. And 286 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 3: obviously that's very much evolved from newspapers, but I still 287 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 3: very much whole that standard. There's no news source that's 288 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: beneath me. I've got the obviously, I've got the context 289 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 3: to know what's nonsense and what's not. But I think 290 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 3: it's really important to be consuming media that you don't 291 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: necessarily agree with or you don't even necessarily respect that much, 292 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 3: just to really understand what the diet is that's out 293 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 3: there that you can then help digest to torture metaphor. 294 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: So Jesse, you're the highbrow one. 295 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 2: I assume you're just like hopping on Harvard Business Review 296 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: every day and checking out Journal of Applied Psychology and 297 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: the lives. 298 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 7: Exactly right, Maya as always. 299 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 6: I remember us having an intervention in editorial years ago 300 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 6: where Mea said that we were all fishing from the 301 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 6: same pond. Every single person was checking the same three 302 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 6: websites every day, and our views were far too limited. Yeah, 303 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 6: and our ideas went original. So and there's a lot 304 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 6: you can do about that, which is hiring, you know, 305 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 6: a more diverse workforce. And that's not just about you know, 306 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 6: whether it's it's gender or race or sexuality. It's also 307 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 6: about class. It's also about political positions. And having a 308 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 6: lot of people come in from different contexts has helped 309 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 6: with that I've had since I started. I have a 310 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 6: thing on I like star websites that I really like, 311 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 6: and so my scan is very I will do the 312 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 6: same scan every day of say fifteen websites, and that 313 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 6: might be The Atlantic and the cart and I don't 314 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 6: know Business Insider or the Australian, which again, there are 315 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 6: lots of things that I don't agree with. 316 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 7: But I like having a sense of that. I've jump 317 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 7: on Twitter. 318 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 6: The most recent one where I'm getting the best content 319 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 6: from is Bloody TikTok. I get on TikTok. Yeah, the 320 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 6: stuff that will give you is really helpful. But I 321 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 6: also and I've thought about this a lot. I used 322 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 6: to walk to work and as I walked, I would 323 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 6: listen to things and I would read things. But I 324 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 6: realized that it often the best ideas I had. Well, when 325 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 6: I put my phone away, I thought for ten minutes 326 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 6: about what people are talking about. What's the what's the 327 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 6: broader thing we talk about a helicopter bird's eye view, Like, yeah, 328 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 6: everyone's talking about the intricacies of amber heard, but what's 329 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 6: the real conversation. There's that, and then there's also walking 330 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 6: to work or waiting for your coffee and taking your 331 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 6: headphones out, and you will get a sense within ten 332 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 6: seconds of what the conversation is. Yeah, and that's actually 333 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 6: where the best ideas come from, is that you know 334 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 6: it'll be about like, oh, what do I do? 335 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 7: You know? This is very specific to today, But. 336 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 6: The biggest conversation is, hang on if I get COVID 337 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 6: before Saturday, what am I going to do? And with 338 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 6: voting or whatever? I mean, that's the story and leaning 339 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 6: into what people are talking about is the thing that 340 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 6: has served us best. 341 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 7: I think it's. 342 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: Interesting what you're saying, Jesse, in terms of giving yourself 343 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: just that space and time to think about what you 344 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 2: think about something. And you guys mentioned earlier the Holy Jesse. 345 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: You guys do a bit of prep in before recording. 346 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: Mia not so much. So I'd love to know like 347 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: all your processes, Mia, Yours sounds very scary to me. 348 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: How like have you? Have you always been like that? 349 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: Just sort of flying. 350 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 5: Possibly go wrong? 351 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 4: Yes, lucky, I've never ever made a mistake of television before. 352 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 4: Why do I do so little prep? I'd love to 353 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 4: say it's because I'm better than them. But it's because 354 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 4: I'm lazy. 355 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 6: You know what you do do Mia, and I'm going 356 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 6: to come in and defend you. Is it just then 357 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 6: when I was saying that we all that it's good 358 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 6: to have a think from what you'll do is is 359 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 6: reflect a bit on it, and you'll come up with 360 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 6: a really interesting perspective. And it's because you actually haven't 361 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 6: consumed eleven things and you don't get stuck in the weeds. 362 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 6: And I think that's why you're often able to articulate 363 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 6: the sentiment of something because you reflect on it. 364 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 7: That's your prep thank you. 365 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 5: Yes, it's that's the reason. 366 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 4: It's a little bit similar to how I prep for 367 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 4: No Filter, where I just absorb things and then I 368 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 4: need to metabolize them. And I find that my worst 369 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 4: interviews and my worst shows are the ones where I 370 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 4: prep too much for because it does something to my 371 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 4: brain where it becomes I don't know, it loses some 372 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 4: magic for me. 373 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 5: So I prefer to. 374 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 4: Be able to react off Jesse and Holly, so I'll 375 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 4: always be the one in the planning meeting. They will 376 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 4: often like to get into an issue a little bit, 377 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 4: just to make sure that it's an interesting enough topic 378 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 4: for us to talk about, whereas I'll just go, h, 379 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 4: stop kills the magic. And that's actually something I learned 380 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 4: from doing morning television or doing the project or because 381 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 4: they're very much not so much of the project, but 382 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 4: they very much try to stop that. Because when you 383 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 4: work with comedians, they don't like to be prepared. They 384 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 4: like to have that banter. 385 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: Jesse, You're the opposite on the prep front, is that right? 386 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 7: Yes? 387 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 6: Which is funny because MEA and I are both anxious, 388 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 6: but our anxiety manifests in very different ways. I need 389 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 6: to be prepared, and in fact, this has been my 390 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 6: fault that I've had to work back from, I think, 391 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 6: which is that over preparation kills spontaneity and kills podcasts. 392 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 6: But I have also believed very strongly, which is something 393 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 6: that's drilled into you at Mummia, not to waste her time. 394 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 7: And I want to make sure this. 395 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 6: Is the best advice I got about podcasting was like, 396 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 6: don't come in with eleven points, come in with one 397 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 6: or two and just know them know your position on it. 398 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 4: Have said, just to be clear that her you're talking 399 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 4: about is not don't waste my time, it's don't waste 400 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 4: the time. 401 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 7: Yes, yes, good clarification. 402 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 5: My time is available to be wasted. I waste everybody's 403 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 5: time by being not prepared. 404 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 6: And that's my biggest fear is that we all kind 405 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 6: of and when I say we, I don't worry about 406 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 6: me or and hotly doing it, but I worry that 407 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 6: And I've had this recently with having to do things live, 408 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 6: that I won't have anything to bring, anything meaningful or 409 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 6: important to bring to something, and everyone I'll go what 410 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 6: was the point in that. My biggest fear is that 411 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 6: I'll go blank, and I'll open my mouth and nothing 412 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 6: will come out. So I'm an over preparer who's constantly 413 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 6: putting myself in situations that challenge that and beat that 414 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 6: out of me. And it's also worth noting I'm also 415 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 6: the least experienced because I'm the youngest, I've been in 416 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 6: the industry for the least so from coming on to 417 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 6: this podcast, I probably had a complex that was like, 418 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 6: You've got to work twice as hard to sound half 419 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 6: as good, which is why I've always I will go 420 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 6: into exam mode preparation before a podcast, where all like 421 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 6: read or I'll listen to something and I'll make notes 422 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 6: and immerse myself and I love working under that pressure. 423 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 7: That kind of lights me up. It's exam mode. 424 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: Now, your producer is Emma Gillespie, who is on the 425 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: line listening to this interview. What does the producer do 426 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 2: for a podcast? 427 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 3: Oh, she saves us a lot of the time. So 428 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 3: the way that we work these days is that we 429 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 3: generally pitch our ideas to Emma and then Emma reflects 430 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: them back at us and says, you know, you all 431 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: seem to want to talk about this. I think this 432 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 3: is the most interesting bit, and then we push and 433 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 3: pull that. So she's curating the ideas. She obviously helps 434 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 3: us with preparation to a point as well, so she'll 435 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 3: make sure we've got our facts straight and that we've 436 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 3: got the audio texture as we call it for a show. 437 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 3: If we need a particular grab and all those things, 438 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 3: we'll go and get those. She also edits, She listens, 439 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 3: She tells us if we're screwing something up, she tells 440 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 3: us if we're going too long, and she also obviously edits. 441 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: It pulls it all together and makes us all sound 442 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 3: shiny and great. 443 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: Something that I started doing about a year and a 444 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 2: half ago with how I work. When I started working 445 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: with the wonderful Kelly Reardan as my I guess she's 446 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: kind of like the executive producer in a way. Is 447 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 2: we would do something called an air check or I 448 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 2: think that's the term taken from radio, where you'll do 449 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: the joyful task of well listening to yourself back. Oh, 450 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: that's a really nice way to spend a morning. 451 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 4: Do you do that with Kelly or just you do 452 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 4: it independently and then notes. 453 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: I do both, not religiously, but semi regularly. I would 454 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 2: say that I do that with Kelly. I do that 455 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: fairly regularly. So we will meet once a month and 456 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: we'll talk about the show, and we will pick a 457 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 2: section from an interview and we will listen to that 458 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 2: together and Kelly, oh my gosh, it's like it's equal 459 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: parts just horrible and enlightening, because it is amazing to 460 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 2: you know, and for those who have no idea who 461 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 2: Kelly Riddan is. She used to head up podcasts at 462 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: the ABC, and she's incredibly experienced when it comes to podcasts. 463 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 2: So it is amazing having someone of Kelly's expertise listen 464 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 2: and critique. And I feel like I've grown so much 465 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 2: as a host because of Kelly's feedback. Now, I think, Jesse, 466 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 2: you mentioned that you'll obviously get feedback from listeners the 467 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: out louders, but I'm curious what's the feedback process between 468 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: the three of you and also with your producer Emma. 469 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 6: We do get from producer Emma. 470 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 7: We also have. 471 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 6: A role at the moment that is a lot of 472 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 6: air checks and also feedback generally about show structure, maybe ticks. 473 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 7: We have that kind of thing. 474 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 6: And then we have a head of podcasts that's also 475 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 6: listening out for a lot of that. So this happens 476 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 6: a lot as well at the beginning. 477 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 7: The birth of a show. 478 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 6: So I'm on another podcast called Canceled, which is relatively new, 479 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 6: and that's been so amazing to just have a team 480 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 6: of people who want that to be as good as 481 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 6: it can be and say, hey, the way that that 482 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 6: unfolded on Tuesday wasn't quite right, here's why. And I've 483 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 6: do exactly the same thing, which has forced myself to 484 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 6: listen back, which can be excruciating. But the things you 485 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 6: learn about your own crutches and and sometimes it can 486 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 6: be hard because then you get quite self conscious when 487 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 6: you go to speak, but you get you get better 488 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 6: and better. And I think that it's twofold because you've 489 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 6: got to do it and hear what you hear, but 490 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 6: you need someone else to also say, hey, you're speaking 491 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 6: yourself around in circles. You contradicted yourself in that segment, 492 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 6: whatever it is, and it can feel like a real 493 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 6: ego hit. It's a really hard thing to cop. When 494 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 6: I was quite early on in out layout, we had 495 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 6: the head of podcasts give me a call and basically 496 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 6: say here's a list. And it was lovely. It was 497 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 6: the kindest thing. 498 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 5: What was on that list? 499 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 4: Oh my god, it was worse when you were saying 500 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 4: heteronormative all the time. 501 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 3: Yes, it was using long words. 502 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 7: A lot, Yes, exactly. 503 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 5: And I was everything was problematic. 504 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 7: Everything was problematic. 505 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 6: I was new, I was green, I was trying to impress, 506 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 6: and there were things that I was doing that would 507 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 6: have been really irritating as a listener. She didn't put 508 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 6: it like that, but she also didn't, you know, pretend 509 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 6: she was giving me a compliment. It was the kindest 510 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 6: thing she could have possibly done and improved my career exponentially, 511 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 6: and it would have been a really uncomfortable conversation for her, 512 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 6: and I've just been so grateful for anyone who, you know, 513 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 6: has the bravery to sit down with talent and say, 514 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 6: if you fix A, B and C, you'll be brilliant. 515 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 7: It's terrifying. 516 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 4: I think it's challenging also because Holly and I in particular, 517 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 4: we're the bosses, so we are often in charge of 518 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 4: the people who were giving us feedback. So the power 519 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 4: and balance can feel quite difficult for those people. But 520 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 4: Jesse mentioned head of Podcasts Eliza Ratliffe. She's still the 521 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 4: executive producer about that, but she used to be our 522 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 4: producer and before that she was my EA, so she's 523 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 4: got long history with us and I think she, more 524 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 4: than anyone else in our business, can give us very. 525 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 5: Unfiltered you know. 526 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 4: She pulls no punches and I love that because I 527 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 4: crave that feedback and there aren't enough people who feel 528 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 4: comfortable enough in our business to give that to me, 529 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 4: and she's probably one of them. 530 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 2: We will be back soon talking about how the team 531 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: selects guest hosts when one of them is on holiday 532 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: and how they go about making them seamlessly fit into 533 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 2: the show, and we'll also be talking about how they 534 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 2: role model, respectful disagreement. 535 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: If you're looking. 536 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 7: For more tips to improve the way that you. 537 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: Work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three 538 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 2: cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, 539 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 2: ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving through to 540 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 2: interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at 541 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: Howiwork dot co. That's how I Work dot co. That's 542 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 2: something that I always very impressed with. This when you 543 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 2: have guest hosts, because you guys are not working fifty 544 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: two weeks a year, which which is I find quite 545 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: sad because I really like the combination of you through 546 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 2: you have. 547 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 3: To really try work hard to stop me from working 548 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 3: fifty two weeks. 549 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 5: Yes, say true fifty three if I could. 550 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: Thank God for Byron Bay. But you, I feel like, 551 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: whenever you've got a guest host, it's really seamless, and 552 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: I'd love to know, firstly, how do you go about 553 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 2: choosing those guest hosts. 554 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 6: We have people that we've put forward that we've worked 555 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 6: with for a long time, Susan Carland we've worked with 556 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 6: for a long time, and then we'll have like you know, 557 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 6: sometimes a wish list, or we'll go we know that 558 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 6: our perspectives are limited, so sometimes we'll think it would great, 559 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 6: it would be great to have someone on the show 560 00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 6: who doesn't have kids, or who isn't married, or who's 561 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 6: in a same sex relationship or something. We try really 562 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 6: hard with briefing them and letting them know the structure 563 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 6: of the show so that they feel safe, and getting 564 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 6: the rhythm with them, which is really hard over a 565 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 6: screen because sometimes there's a delay and you can feel 566 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 6: like you've just not quite got the pace and the 567 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 6: understanding and the rapport that you might need. But yeah, 568 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 6: we've had a bunch of different hosts and hopefully we do. 569 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 6: You know, we don't think too much about it, but 570 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 6: I think that it's a lot about the relationship that's 571 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 6: built before you get on the mic, and making them 572 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 6: feel really safe and that you're not out to get them, 573 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 6: and that this is relatively it's often a lot more 574 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 6: loose than what they do regularly, which is radio or television, 575 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 6: and we say you've got more time, there's a lot 576 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 6: more room for nuance, and our producer and our team 577 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 6: have your back, and I think that makes them feel safe. 578 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: I was going to ask how you go about building 579 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 2: rapport with them, particularly when like the other two of 580 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: you who were there with the guest host haven't worked 581 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: with them, you know, when one of you hasn't worked 582 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: with them before, or both of you haven't worked with 583 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: them before. 584 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: So what does that process look like. 585 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 3: Well, the producer is obviously is in contact with them 586 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 3: from an earlier stage about as Jesse said, it will 587 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 3: often be somebody that we know in some capacity, or 588 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 3: that we've seen and loved their work in some capacity, 589 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 3: so em we'll be in touch with them early on 590 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 3: to talk about the process and how it is. Because 591 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 3: the thing is interesting. I love the fact that you 592 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,239 Speaker 3: say it sounds so seamless, because it's actually a very 593 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 3: difficult thing to do to come into this threesome of them. 594 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 4: And after they're a listener, they're an out louder, so 595 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 4: they come in with ideas and thoughts, or they might 596 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 4: feel a little bit intimidated or self conscious. 597 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 5: So the two OG hosts that. 598 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 4: Are working with the guest we have to do a 599 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 4: lot more heavy lifting than when it's the three of us. 600 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 4: Obviously to make them feel comfortable, I. 601 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: Would imagine something that is quite scary, or maybe I'm 602 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 2: just projecting my own fears here onto like being you know, 603 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: regularly talking about your opinions on topics and you've got 604 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: all these out louders who are also very opinionated. Is 605 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: ending up on Jesse's podcast canceled? Like, how do you 606 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 2: deal with that? Me? 607 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, You've probably had a lot of experience. 608 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 5: Like you know, being canceled. 609 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like how do you think about that in 610 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 2: terms of what you express on the show. 611 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 4: So one of the interestingly, I don't write anymore really 612 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,959 Speaker 4: except for Mum and me as subscribers, and I don't 613 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 4: do any TV anymore at all because of the threat 614 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 4: of cancelation and because you know, I have a responsibility 615 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 4: as well. I'm the owner of a business that employs 616 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 4: more than one hundred women. So if I were to 617 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 4: say something that was either offensive inadvertently or not, or 618 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 4: if I was to get into a cancelation situation, that 619 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 4: could be detrimental to so many people. But what I've 620 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 4: realized is that people hate watch TV, they hate read, 621 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 4: but they don't hate listen, and so not always, but 622 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 4: mostly you have also we have a degree of control 623 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 4: because it's not live, and we have a producer and 624 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 4: each other to watch our backs and we're very mindful 625 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 4: of this every time we put something out, but ultimately 626 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 4: people are lazy and cancel culture usually comes from someone 627 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 4: taking something out of context. And one of the most 628 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 4: difficult things for podcasters is that it's quite hard to 629 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 4: share a podcast. You can't share a segment of a podcast, 630 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 4: and that's something that is a curse and a blessing 631 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 4: because it makes discoverability more difficult, but it means that 632 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 4: it can't be easily shared on Twitter, which is where 633 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 4: people get canceled generally. 634 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 3: We also, obviously, you know, working in the industries that 635 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 3: we've all worked in for years now, we're very aware 636 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 3: of hot button issues, dangerous places to go, topics that 637 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 3: we really should not we do not have a position 638 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 3: to discuss. So and also one of the things that 639 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 3: we all feel deeply is none of us want a 640 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 3: show that people just shouting outrageous opinions at each other. 641 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 3: That's not what we're there for. So we work hard 642 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 3: to make sure that we're representing different viewpoints and that 643 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 3: we disagree with each other, but respectful disagreement is our obsession, 644 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 3: and I think you're also setting a certain tone when 645 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 3: you do that. So as much as we have each 646 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 3: other's back in terms of, as I think Mia said 647 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 3: earlier or Jesse said earlier, if you maybe something slipped 648 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 3: out of your mouth that could be misconstrued. We're all 649 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 3: very good at catching that, as is our producer, and 650 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 3: the show goes through two sets of ears before it 651 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 3: goes out. But we also we're not interested in just 652 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 3: stirring up culture wars. That's not the opposite of that. 653 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 5: I'll avoid that if we can. 654 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 6: I think that the fear for me has become and 655 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 6: we have this discussion relatively recently, how do you still 656 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 6: take how do you still take positions on things and 657 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 6: reflect what women are talking about while not getting yourself canceled. 658 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 6: If you are too worried about what people think, do 659 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 6: not get into podcasting, because you can say the most 660 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 6: innocuous things sometimes and be absolute, really rile people up, 661 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 6: and you've just got to cop that. And often I'll 662 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 6: say something and a producer will say, you know, that 663 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 6: might upset a few people, or that there's a group 664 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 6: of people who are not going to happy you said that, 665 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 6: and I'll have a think and go it's worth saying. 666 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 7: And I think. 667 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 6: That's a really hard thing to do, because I've seen 668 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 6: a lot of podcasts where people share opinions and perspectives 669 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 6: go in the direction of you've actually spent forty minutes 670 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 6: not saying anything because you're so terrified of what the 671 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 6: response will be. So that's still important to have those 672 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 6: those debates. And I think often in the planning meeting 673 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 6: will go I'll say this, but I think we also 674 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 6: have to present X opinion in order for this to 675 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 6: be a well rounded, informative conversation, and we'll carefully produce that. 676 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 7: But yeah, I'm aware of that that. 677 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 6: There are some issues that I go, I feel passionately 678 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 6: about this, I believe in it. If I get one 679 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 6: hundred hate emails, it will have been worth it. 680 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 3: But I think that that's the key is is it 681 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 3: worth it and it's not worth it just so that 682 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 3: you feel like you said something clever, you know what 683 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 3: I mean? And Jesse is very is smart enough as 684 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 3: we all are, to kind of being a able to 685 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 3: self curate those issues to a point where you're like, 686 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 3: this is, as you say, a conversation worth having. This 687 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 3: is just poking a bear. 688 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, Holly, you mentioned respectful disagreement. 689 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: How how do you role model that? 690 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 3: I think I like to think we do it well. 691 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 3: There are a few issues that we can be guaranteed 692 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 3: to disagree about, and the argument will spill from the 693 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 3: studio to the kitchen, to the uber, to the to 694 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 3: the to wherever we're going to next, the next meeting. 695 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,280 Speaker 3: We're in some pourts so and so some poor person 696 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 3: will have to listen that to us continue that argument. 697 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 3: But I think that the fundamental we all have a 698 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 3: great deal of respect for each other anyway, so we 699 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 3: genuinely want to hear each other's points of view. It's 700 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 3: really essential to us that we can model that you 701 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 3: can disagree and pick people up on things that you 702 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 3: disagree with or that they got wrong, or whatever that 703 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 3: might be, and still walk away friends. It is the 704 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 3: thing that out louders tell us they like the most. 705 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 3: But that is very much about not getting personal, not 706 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 3: playing people instead of issues. And I think also, and 707 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 3: it was an out louder who pointed this out to me, 708 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 3: actually is she said, you might disagree about things, but 709 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 3: you share values. And I think that's true. And I 710 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 3: know values is something that's just thrown around a lot, 711 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 3: and there's a lot of shades of gray in the 712 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 3: way we all feel about certain issues, but none of 713 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 3: us are holding deep Trumpian views about you know, women 714 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 3: or immigration or whatever it might be. We come from 715 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 3: a base of shared value, I think, and then we 716 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 3: dance around on top of that with our disagreements, but 717 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 3: we all genuinely respect each other's point of view. I 718 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 3: don't think you can fake that. 719 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 4: But the irony of this, Amantha, is that that's just 720 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 4: reflective of real life. It's only on the Internet that 721 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 4: people say things like I don't agree with everything that 722 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 4: you say, but I really liked that point you made 723 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 4: about blah blah. In real life, everybody that we love, 724 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 4: our friends, our partners, our children, our parents, we have 725 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 4: loads of things that we disagree with them about, but 726 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,879 Speaker 4: we don't write them off as people or cancel them. 727 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 4: The only place that happens is the Internet. And I 728 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,240 Speaker 4: think that you know, our Holly is completely right about 729 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 4: we do share values. But the most interesting times for 730 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 4: us are the times where there's the grain of sand 731 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 4: in the oyster, you know, like, for example, j Long 732 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 4: at the super. 733 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 3: BOWTL we will never stop arguing. 734 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 5: I'll take you on now again. 735 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 4: For around forty five we had very very different views 736 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 4: about that, and that might seem so small, but really 737 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 4: they were about much bigger issues around feminism. But that 738 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 4: just happened to be the lens through which we were 739 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 4: looking at something was quite different looking at the same 740 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 4: sort of cultural moment. So yeah, for us, that's what 741 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 4: keeps it exciting. We love it when we find something 742 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 4: to do. 743 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 3: We do, but it's really but you know that episodes 744 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 3: I hate the most are the ones where I feel 745 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 3: like I've lost my call, like sometimes you do you 746 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,399 Speaker 3: get too emotional and I and you know, I'll never 747 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 3: forget as a mother the argument we had about that 748 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 3: years ago. 749 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 5: Now phrase we just pick that up again. 750 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,359 Speaker 7: That's always fun. 751 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 3: It's the phrase as a mother that Jesse was saying 752 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 3: that mothers use all the time to then justify why 753 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 3: they know better about all the things. And I got 754 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 3: very emotional in that conversation. And every time my voice 755 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 3: gets screechy and I lose Michael, and then I just 756 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 3: feel awful for days. 757 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,760 Speaker 5: Like why do you feel awful? 758 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 3: I loved it. I loved it in the end, but 759 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 3: I just don't want I just don't like that. I 760 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 3: don't like that. I loved debate, but I don't like 761 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 3: debate when it gets like that. 762 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,959 Speaker 6: I think Holly as well. You said about that discussion, 763 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 6: which is a very fine line that we sometimes toe, 764 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 6: is that when a woman is giving us forty minutes 765 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 6: of her time, we don't want her to take her 766 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,720 Speaker 6: headphones out and feel worse about herself. 767 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 3: No I did. 768 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 5: That's a good point. 769 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 6: Did that discussion make a woman who would use that 770 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 6: term feel like shit or like? We don't want to 771 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 6: create division for the sake of creating division. And so 772 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 6: that's why the structure of the show can be important, 773 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 6: is you can have a discussion like that and then 774 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 6: come back in the next segment and have a big 775 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 6: laugh and go, this is an exchange of ideas. This 776 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 6: isn't pitting people against each other. It's a careful, careful line. 777 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 2: I think, well, when I listened to MoMA Mia out Loud, 778 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 2: I definitely. 779 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: Feel better about myself. 780 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 2: And I was thinking, like, in preparation for this interview, 781 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 2: like if I like if I don't know, there was 782 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 2: a spell that was cast on me and I could 783 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 2: only listen to one podcast like for the rest of 784 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 2: my life, like or let's just say the next month. 785 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: It would be Mamma Mia out Loud. 786 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 2: I listened to a lot of different podcasts, But I 787 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 2: just I feel such joy when I have you three 788 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 2: in my ears. It's been so just like wonderful to 789 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 2: speak to you all and understand the process that goes 790 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,800 Speaker 2: on behind it. I normally finish these interviews by asking 791 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 2: how can people connect with you? Which I will in 792 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 2: a moment obviously. I mean, you would have just had 793 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 2: the volume turned down really low to not know that 794 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 2: we've been talking about Mama Mia out loud. And you 795 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 2: can get that wherever you listen to your podcast. 796 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:41,399 Speaker 1: But what is that. 797 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 3: Cover? 798 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 7: A back? 799 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: Can you get a. 800 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 7: Sow? 801 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: How can listeners connect with the three of you? 802 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 7: Holly? 803 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: How can how can people connect with you? 804 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 3: Well? Obviously I write and work at Mama Miya, but 805 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 3: the best, my favorite of the social media platforms is Instagram, 806 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 3: so you can always find me there at Wayne Wright Holly. 807 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 3: That's who I am. 808 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: On Jesse how about you? 809 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, Instagram as well. 810 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 6: I'm Jesse Stevens on Instagram, And I've also got another 811 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 6: Instagram with my twin sister where we do a lot 812 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 6: of chats about Cancel, the other podcast that we do, 813 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 6: and my writing is every time I can do it 814 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 6: on Mama Maya and Maya. 815 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 4: I'm also on Instagram girl just at MEA Friedman and 816 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 4: I have got a newsletter that you can subscribe to 817 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,399 Speaker 4: by going to Meafriedman dot com, where you will find my. 818 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 2: Writing Amazing ladies like I feel like ladies. That sounds 819 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 2: so old fashioned, but anyway, I feel like I've just 820 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 2: been talking with three friends, even though we're not like, 821 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 2: because I feel like you're my friends because I hear 822 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 2: you every day almost on my headphone. 823 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for spending the time with me. 824 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 3: Thank you, Amantha, thank you for having us. 825 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 2: Well this you was such a joy to do, and 826 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 2: having listened to a couple of episodes after conducting this interview, 827 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 2: it's been really interesting listening to it with the craft 828 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 2: that all three women bring to it. In the back 829 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 2: of my mind, they make it look so easy sharing 830 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 2: their opinions on all sorts of things going on in 831 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,320 Speaker 2: the world. But that apparent ease, I think, really only 832 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,760 Speaker 2: comes when you have spent years honing your craft. 833 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying how I work. 834 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 2: Maybe you might want to leave a review for the 835 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 2: show in Apple Podcasts, or if you're listening to this 836 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 2: from simply. 837 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: Click on the stars or write a comment. 838 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 2: It's wonderful getting feedback from listeners, so thank you in 839 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 2: advance if you've left feedback, or if you plan to 840 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,240 Speaker 2: do so today. How I Work is produced by Inventing, 841 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 2: with production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for 842 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 2: this episode was Liam Riordan, and thank you to Matt 843 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 2: Nimba who does the audio mix for every episode and 844 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 2: makes everything sound so much better than it would have otherwise. 845 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: See you next time.