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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers now.

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Speaker 2: Being on Instagram and following all of these parenting accounts

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Speaker 2: has also been shown to make mums feel less competent

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Speaker 2: because they start comparing themselves to others and everyone else

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Speaker 2: seems to be getting it.

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Speaker 1: Rock and Now here's the stars of our show, My

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Speaker 1: mum and Dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello. This is doctor Justin Coilson, the founder of Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com dot you and dad to the six

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Speaker 2: kids that I share with my wife. The podcast host partner,

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Speaker 2: Kylie miss Families, who joins me today for an episode

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Speaker 2: of The Doctor's Desk. Today, it's a conversation about the

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Speaker 2: latest science, the latest research, the latest findings that relate

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Speaker 2: to parents and Kylie, today's some doozies. These are the

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Speaker 2: kinds of conversations where we pause and go, okay, so

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Speaker 2: what do we do with this now? But it's information

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Speaker 2: that I think parents need to have. So we've got

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Speaker 2: three studies to go through in our conversation today. Where

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Speaker 2: do you want to start? Pick one? Pick a card,

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Speaker 2: any card. We've got three to choose from.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with ADHD. Recently you did a webinar on ADHD.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, two hour workshop actually with about fifty people. It

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Speaker 2: was great, and so I'm thinking that we'll start there. Okay,

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Speaker 2: this kind's a fairly controversial piece of research. I think

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Speaker 2: just published May nineteen, so it's only a month old,

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Speaker 2: comes out of Ohio State University, and it's part of

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Speaker 2: a much larger study. But essentially, researchers have asked parents

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Speaker 2: of one hundred and thirty four kids with ADHD to

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Speaker 2: complete a very detailed questionnaire about the kinds of foods

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Speaker 2: the kids eat, including how much over a three month period,

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Speaker 2: And then they've got another question. They're asking them to

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Speaker 2: rate the symptoms of inattention, which is obviously a central

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Speaker 2: pillar for so much ADHD in their kids, like having

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Speaker 2: trouble staying focused, not following instructions, difficulty remembering things, difficulty

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Speaker 2: regulating emotions, all that kind of thing. And what the

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Speaker 2: research showed was that kids who consumed more fruits and

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Speaker 2: vegetables showed less severe symptoms of inattention. In other words,

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Speaker 2: eating a healthy diet, including fruit and vegetables, may be

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Speaker 2: one way to reduce some of the symptoms of ADHD.

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Speaker 2: Now this is provocative because research for the last couple

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Speaker 2: of decades has kind of raised questions about whether diet

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Speaker 2: does or does not have anything to do with ADHD.

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Speaker 2: This is not saying, by the way, that getting diet

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Speaker 2: right will cure ADHD. What it's saying is that it

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Speaker 2: reduces some of the symptoms that we see with ADHD kids,

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Speaker 2: specifically around that inattention side of things.

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Speaker 1: So there's still no clarity.

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Speaker 2: Really well, I think science is one of those things

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Speaker 2: where clarity comes bit by bit, studied by study, year

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Speaker 2: by year, decade by decade. I think that if I

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Speaker 2: was to read this as a parent with a child

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Speaker 2: who has ADHD, it would be a reminder that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to give my child the best shot at regulating

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Speaker 2: and inhibiting those responses that are some how so unhelpful.

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Speaker 2: So often, if I can help my child to stay

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Speaker 2: off the process stuff and eat more fruit and vegetables.

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Speaker 2: In other words, the better my child's diet, the more

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Speaker 2: likely it is that they'll be giving themselves the best

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Speaker 2: shot at doing as well as they possibly can.

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Speaker 1: I know, over the years, we've had lots of conversations

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Speaker 1: with lots of different parents who have recognized that certain

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Speaker 1: additives or food colorings have had a huge impact on

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Speaker 1: their children's behavior. This study hasn't actually looked at any

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Speaker 1: of that. It's just the acknowledgment that food and vegetables

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Speaker 1: support healthier development.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're exactly right. There was nothing in here that

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Speaker 2: I can find in the study that's looking at all

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Speaker 2: of the process stuff, the additives and so on. What

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Speaker 2: we do know though, is that the studies on fruit

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Speaker 2: and veggie intake and the role of food in security,

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Speaker 2: because food and security came up as well, and the

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Speaker 2: more insecure kids are around the ability to get food,

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Speaker 2: the more likely it is that their ADHD symptoms will

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Speaker 2: be exacerbated. So kids that are living in poverty basically,

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Speaker 2: or kids that don't get access to good, healthy, save food,

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Speaker 2: they're much more likely to have higher reports of ADHD symptoms,

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Speaker 2: especially around that in attention. So food and security, it's basically,

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Speaker 2: if you don't know that you can get food, if

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Speaker 2: you're hungry, you're going to get irritated. That happens whether

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Speaker 2: you've got ADHD or not. It's just that the ADHD

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Speaker 2: symptoms are exacerbated in that case. So that's the study,

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Speaker 2: like I said, comes from the Ohio State university, and

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Speaker 2: it's a kind of an interesting one. We will link

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Speaker 2: to that in the show notes. Essentially, if you've got

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Speaker 2: kids who are not neurotypical, then it might be worth

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Speaker 2: just having a quick look at their diet and maybe

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Speaker 2: you might find that the more fruit and veggies they get,

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Speaker 2: the greater the reduction in their ADHD symptoms. Of course,

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Speaker 2: there's many other things that play a role in whether

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Speaker 2: or not your child is going to have exacerbated and

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Speaker 2: amplified symptoms or not. But this is just one part

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Speaker 2: of the one part of the recipe for trying to

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Speaker 2: make things go better.

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Speaker 1: Well. Setting number two is all about childcare, so let's

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Speaker 1: dig into that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this one has the potential to upset some people.

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Speaker 2: I promise you we're not sharing this to be provocative.

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Speaker 2: My job here is to share what the latest research shows,

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Speaker 2: and studies into children in childcare have been controversial and

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Speaker 2: provocative for the last several decades. Jay Belski has probably

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Speaker 2: done the best work on this over the decades, but

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Speaker 2: now he's quite an elderly gentleman and the baton has

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Speaker 2: been passed on to some others. So the one comes

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Speaker 2: from the University of Zurich. It was actually published a

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Speaker 2: couple of months ago in March of this year, thirteen

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Speaker 2: hundred kids from Zurich or going to school, their teachers

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Speaker 2: their parents suggest that the more time that kids spend

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Speaker 2: in external daycare, the more likely it is that they're

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Speaker 2: going to exhibit problematic behavior. But the research also showed

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Speaker 2: that by the end of primary school that problematic behavior

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Speaker 2: seems to disappear. Now, this is an association. It's not

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Speaker 2: what we say, if you put your kids in childcare,

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Speaker 2: they are going to be problematic. That's what we call

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Speaker 2: a causal relationship. And you can only figure that out

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Speaker 2: if you randomly like a bunch of people and stick

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Speaker 2: them met of childcare and randomly select another bunch and

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Speaker 2: don't stick them in a childcare. We obviously can't do

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Speaker 2: that as an experiment that we just ethically we can't

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Speaker 2: do it, but also logistically, like families have to live

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Speaker 2: their lives, and so it's what we call correlational or

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Speaker 2: it's looking at the association between these things. And essentially

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Speaker 2: what it showed is that the kids who are in

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Speaker 2: childcare do tend to have some more challenging behaviors throughout

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Speaker 2: their early childhood.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting in some ways, it just kind of makes sense.

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Speaker 1: When you have your children in your home and they're

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Speaker 1: not in any kind of external care, you have absolute

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Speaker 1: control over who your children associate with when you put

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Speaker 1: them into even once they hit school. Once you put

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Speaker 1: them into school, you're actually opening them up to a

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Speaker 1: wide variety of social contexts in one setting. And so

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Speaker 1: I remember when my littlest sister went to day care

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Speaker 1: and she came home with the F word.

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Speaker 2: Really family, real family, We.

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Speaker 1: Don't we didn't swear, we don't swear. And she came

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Speaker 1: home and it was like she was saying, I want

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Speaker 1: an apple. She would just use that it would come out.

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Speaker 1: My mother was horrified. But the reality is she was

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Speaker 1: now associating with people who had different values, different standards,

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Speaker 1: and different ideology around life in general. And so all

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Speaker 1: of these things that we often see is bad behavior

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Speaker 1: and not necessarily bad behavior, but different values.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think what also could happen here is

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Speaker 2: not only are kids being exposed to different ways of behaving,

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Speaker 2: they're also, as they get older, started to move more

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Speaker 2: and more towards what's popular, what's going to bring me

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Speaker 2: social status? How do I fit in where do I belong?

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Speaker 2: But it's also possible that external childcare could lessen the

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Speaker 2: strength of child parent attachment and interaction. And some early

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Speaker 2: research going back to like the nineteen nineties early two

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Speaker 2: thousands showed that the more time kids spend in childcare,

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Speaker 2: the greater the risk was that the parent child attachment

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Speaker 2: could be affected. And that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: There's just less one on one time, That's what I

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Speaker 1: was going to say. Once you're in a classroom situation,

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Speaker 1: you've got twenty twenty plus kids to too adults.

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Speaker 2: And it's less time with your grown ups that matter most.

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Speaker 2: Your mum, your dad, your parents, your caregivers less time

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Speaker 2: with them as well. And again this isn't to put

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Speaker 2: guilt on parents at all. It's just to highlight that

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Speaker 2: when we put our kids into childcare, there and many

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Speaker 2: parents have no choice. I mean, we live in a

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Speaker 2: society now where if you don't have that double income

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Speaker 2: it's because you've got somebody who's doing very well with

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Speaker 2: the primary income, or alternatively, you're going to struggle. Like

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Speaker 2: it's really challenging. And so the goal is how do

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Speaker 2: we help our children to have the very best attachment

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Speaker 2: relationship with us when they're not in care. How do

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Speaker 2: we manage how do we amplify the quality of the

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Speaker 2: connection that we experience with them? Because ultimately, the two

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Speaker 2: things that the research is behind this study have pointed

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Speaker 2: to are these two issues. One that you raised, the

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Speaker 2: one that I raise, That is the attachment relationship being affected.

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Speaker 2: That is the quality of the connection being reduced because

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Speaker 2: parents drop the kids off early, they pick them up late,

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Speaker 2: they're exhausted. They basically give them breakfast and give them

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Speaker 2: dinner and put them to bed, and they really spend

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Speaker 2: time with them on the weekends. That's part of it.

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Speaker 2: And the peer group, the challenging behavior that gets picked

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Speaker 2: up in broader social settings is the other thing. So

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Speaker 2: that's pretty much it. Now. I do want to highlight

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Speaker 2: one other thing with this study, Kylie, and that is

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Speaker 2: that while it sheds some light on some possible unfavorable

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Speaker 2: links between external childcare and the way kids are developing,

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Speaker 2: specifically later on as they age, there is no causation here.

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Speaker 2: It could be any number of other things. And there's

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Speaker 2: also this issue of the quality of the childcare that

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Speaker 2: the kids receiving outside the family.

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Speaker 1: A'm just about to say that I think about the

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Speaker 1: experiences our kids have had, and I would say, hands

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Speaker 1: down nine times out of ten they've actually brought home

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Speaker 1: positive yeah behaviors as a result of the places we've

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Speaker 1: chosen to place them in.

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Speaker 2: Right, and Australia is very lucky in that we do

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Speaker 2: have a we have quite a high standard of childcare generally,

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Speaker 2: especially in comparison to other places around the world. I

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Speaker 2: know that there's still plenty of room for us to

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Speaker 2: move improve, get things better, but we do pretty well

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Speaker 2: compared with other places around the world. So that's the

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Speaker 2: second study. Oh and I might also throw in just

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Speaker 2: so that people know we're not throwing shade. All of

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Speaker 2: our kids have gone to childcare. We needed the break.

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Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to talk about one

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Speaker 2: last study about how Instagram affects the way mums feel

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Speaker 2: about themselves. Family life is pretty tough going. Sometimes most

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Speaker 2: days are a struggle between strong willed children and frazzled parents,

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Speaker 2: but it can be better. The twenty one Days to

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Speaker 2: a Happier Family program is designed for busy parents who

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Speaker 2: want a calmer, happier family, and it can be done

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Speaker 2: with evidence based strategies and practices that really work. In

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Speaker 2: twenty one days. All resources are available for your family

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Speaker 2: for twenty one days to a happier family at happy

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Speaker 2: families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers now. And we have

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Speaker 1: one more study.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this one is kind of interesting to me. It

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Speaker 2: highlights once again just how challenging it is to navigate

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Speaker 2: the world when social media is involved. We talk all

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Speaker 2: the time about how kids are affected by it, but

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Speaker 2: one thing we don't talk often about is how parents,

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Speaker 2: specifically mums, are affected by it. And a brand new

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Speaker 2: study published in Actors Psychological explores the impact of parenting

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Speaker 2: related Instagram accounts on mums and what the researchers have

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Speaker 2: found is quite a mixed experience. So mums will often

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Speaker 2: feel really well supported by a community of fellow parents.

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Speaker 2: They're following this page. They feel like this person gets them.

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Speaker 2: They're keeping it real, they're talking about the ups and

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Speaker 2: the downs and the good and the bad, and that's great.

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Speaker 2: But being on Instagram and following all of these parenting

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Speaker 2: accounts has also been shown to make mums feel less

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Speaker 2: competent because they start comparing themselves to others and everyone

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Speaker 2: else seems to be getting it right. I've even seen

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Speaker 2: this on my Facebook account. Right, So, a few weeks

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Speaker 2: ago we had that Carrots and Sticks webinar, and a

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Speaker 2: bunch of people were sort of saying things like, I

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Speaker 2: wish that I could be as good as everyone else

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Speaker 2: who's on here, commenting about how well they do their

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Speaker 2: parenting and how much they managed to not hit everyone

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Speaker 2: with carrots and sticks and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So there's that whole sense of, well, you've all got

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Speaker 2: the answers and I don't, And I'm feeling even less

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Speaker 2: confident because I'm reading all of your comments and you're

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Speaker 2: telling me how good you are. I don't seem to

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Speaker 2: be able to hold it together at all.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting, most of us actually have the answers. We

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Speaker 1: could sprout them off to anyone every day every week

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Speaker 1: through it, but once we're actually asked for practice it,

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Speaker 1: everything goes out the window, because, as you've said multiple times,

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Speaker 1: it's easy principles having to be applied in the hardest moments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Parenting is actually really easy when

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Speaker 2: it's somebody else's kids. You know, the answers. We had

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Speaker 2: all the answers before kids came along and you can

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Speaker 2: see what your sister in law should be doing with

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Speaker 2: her kids and the name should be doing with theirs.

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Speaker 2: But your kids that they're a bit different. We need

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Speaker 2: special help with them. So this was research conducted out

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Speaker 2: of the University of Copenhagen two hundred and seventy moms

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Speaker 2: with one or more children, and basically they were asked

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Speaker 2: how much time on average they spent on Instagram every

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Speaker 2: day during the last week. Then they indicated what sort

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Speaker 2: of accounts they followed, and if they followed insta parents

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Speaker 2: like influencers who are posting about their experiences with parenting,

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Speaker 2: that's where the research really took off. They also looked

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Speaker 2: at other kinds of accounts that could be followed, like

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Speaker 2: professional accounts that share information about child development or parenting,

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Speaker 2: or even university run Instagram accounts that post about child development.

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Speaker 2: And basically, when they walked through this, the results show

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Speaker 2: that mums frequently follow accounts that discuss parenting. And we

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Speaker 2: know that because we've got a couple of hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: followers on our Facebook account and I know tens of

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Speaker 2: thousands of followers on our Instagram account. They spend nearly

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Speaker 2: an hour a day on the platform, nearly an hour

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Speaker 2: a day on Instagram, and about forty point seven percent

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Speaker 2: forty percent of parents basically said, yet this is negatively

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Speaker 2: affecting me. The insterta parent accounts make me feel like

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Speaker 2: I have to be comparing myself to others. I'm not

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Speaker 2: living up to the expectations. I'm being negatively affected by

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Speaker 2: what I'm reading. And it seemed like the insta parent

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Speaker 2: profiles had much more of a negative impact on the

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Speaker 2: way mum's felt about themselves in terms of feeling like

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Speaker 2: they were incompetent and not feeling the same level of

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Speaker 2: support compared to the more credible accounts from university on

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Speaker 2: pages or people who actually really know what they're talking about,

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Speaker 2: rather than being an insta influencer parent.

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Speaker 1: So I haven't had a lot to do with social

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Speaker 1: media since really the beginning I started. I have an account,

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Speaker 1: and I usually use it more now just to stay

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Speaker 1: in touch with people by a messenger. But part of

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Speaker 1: the reason I stopped using it was because I looked

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Speaker 1: at everybody else's photos and I'm not very technically challenged,

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Speaker 1: and so I don't know how to use all of

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Speaker 1: those filters and things and so in my own space,

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Speaker 1: in real life, everything looked beautiful to me. But then

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Speaker 1: compared to the photos other people were posting of their things,

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Speaker 1: my photos just didn't do my space or my family justice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you've got to know how to use the

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Speaker 2: lighting and the filters and all again and get it

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Speaker 2: all looking right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So in the early days, I actually stopped posting because

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Speaker 1: it was just like, I can't I can't compare with that.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were posting what looked like magazine worthy

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Speaker 1: photos and my photos were just photos.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But obviously as your profile has increased, I've actually stopped

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Speaker 1: posting to kind of give us a little bit more

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Speaker 1: privacy in our kind of private lives.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I've only got one one image on my

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Speaker 2: Instagram account, just one photos all I've ever posted with

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Speaker 2: my Instagram account. I don't even know how to log

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Speaker 2: in anymore. But let's move back to this so they'll

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Speaker 2: take our message from these studies, because we do need

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Speaker 2: to wrap up number one when it comes to ADHD.

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Speaker 2: There are multiple things that are going to exacerbate or

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Speaker 2: lessen the symptoms that our kids are showing, and new

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Speaker 2: research that contrary to previous research. Of course, that more

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Speaker 2: fruit and vegetables may have some impact, especially on the

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Speaker 2: inattentive side of ADHD symptoms. The second thing that we

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Speaker 2: talked about is that childcare, well, the more of it

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Speaker 2: your kids are exposed to, the greater the risk that

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Speaker 2: attachment and challenging behaviors from peers could affect their behavior.

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Speaker 2: And so we want to make sure that we're really

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Speaker 2: creating secure relationships for our kids if they're in childcare.

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Speaker 2: And the final take home messages social media, stay off it.

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Speaker 2: It's not helping you, fair call.

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Speaker 1: I know that my life's better when I'm not spending

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Speaker 1: so much time on it.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin Rowland for

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. All of

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Speaker 2: these links to the Doctor's Desk articles will be found

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Speaker 2: in the show notes of this podcast. And we can't

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Speaker 2: wait for you to join us tomorrow for our Old

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Speaker 2: Do Better Tomorrow episode of the Happy Families Podcast