Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast in last week that line Welcome
Speaker 1: back guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and
Speaker 1: on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the
Speaker 1: biggest players in television. I've worked in Telly for twenty years,
Speaker 1: but I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers.
Speaker 1: The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the news and casting agents.
Speaker 2: They know from a casting point of view what they need, and.
Speaker 1: Editors because that's what we do as editors where storytellers,
Speaker 1: not to forget some incredible executive producers who are making
Speaker 1: some of the best TV in Australia. We thought he'd
Speaker 1: be too to self aware.
Speaker 2: Well, in fact, exactly the opposite was true and he
Speaker 2: became the biggest character in the show.
Speaker 1: So thanks for joining me each week and I hope
Speaker 1: the podcast continues to give you real insight into the
Speaker 1: magic of television. Today. On the podcast, I have the
Speaker 1: latest evicted castaway, Samantha Gash from Network Ten's Australian Survivor.
Speaker 1: Samantha re entered the competition with her now husband Mark
Speaker 1: Wales and played the game of blood versus water with gusto,
Speaker 1: passion and determination. Outside of the game, Samantha is a
Speaker 1: social entrepreneur with heart, grit, and intelligence, and is affectionately
Speaker 1: nicknamed Sammy. Her authentic storytelling bleeds a mission statement that
Speaker 1: has inspired millions and has won friendships with her philosophies
Speaker 1: on life. You spend a minute with sam and you
Speaker 1: immediately feel heard. On today's podcast, we will talk about
Speaker 1: her time in the competition, the decision she made, the
Speaker 1: flag she copped, and the way in which she built
Speaker 1: lifelong friendships with the entire cast. So let's get started.
Speaker 1: I'd like to welcome Samantha Gash to TV Reload.
Speaker 2: I'm a villainous player and I lean into that and
Speaker 2: I own.
Speaker 1: That previously on Australian Survivor.
Speaker 2: Be bold, be strategic, and don't shy away from strategy.
Speaker 2: Not only are they safe in Mark's hands because he's
Speaker 2: not going home tonight, but it gives us choice. We
Speaker 2: both felt safe enough in our relationship voice opposing opinions.
Speaker 2: Anyone has a head and immunity idol, you'd like to
Speaker 2: play it, and that would.
Speaker 1: Be the time to do so.
Speaker 2: At every point, you've got to decide what's good for
Speaker 2: short term game what's good for long term game.
Speaker 1: Sixteenth person voted out of Blood Person's Water, Sam.
Speaker 2: What comes out of adverse and immersive experiences is really
Speaker 2: enriching relationship.
Speaker 1: Hi Sammy, how are you?
Speaker 2: I am well? Thanks for having me on the potty.
Speaker 1: Well, congratulations on such an amazing contribution to this year's
Speaker 1: Australian Survivor. You were one hundred percent there to play
Speaker 1: a very big game. How are you feeling after watching
Speaker 1: last night's episode?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's you do kind of feel like you're back
Speaker 2: in it, but watching it in a weird way. I
Speaker 2: just put my heart and soul into this season as
Speaker 2: a returning player that had her time cut short, most
Speaker 2: likely because of how I didn't understand the game fully,
Speaker 2: and so I took this opportunity and like gave it everything.
Speaker 2: And I was comfortable leaning into villainy, being a swing player,
Speaker 2: making bold and risky moves even if it would potentially
Speaker 2: damage my game. And I look back on it and
Speaker 2: just go, oh, how good is it to just fully
Speaker 2: live something and have no regret. I think I played
Speaker 2: the right move last night in sacrificing my game to
Speaker 2: leave Mark with two idols time time again. I've played
Speaker 2: the scenarios of what if I played the idol and
Speaker 2: then stayed and we had a couple with one idol,
Speaker 2: And I just kept thinking, that's ego, that's not good strategy,
Speaker 2: because you get to the next vote, you know that
Speaker 2: you're going to be the target because you're the only
Speaker 2: couple in the game. You've now only got one idol
Speaker 2: and you don't know who to play it for, and
Speaker 2: they could have split the votes. We could have played
Speaker 2: the idol wrong and you're left then with just one
Speaker 2: player and no jewelry. As Chrissy likes to say so,
Speaker 2: I think it was the best play for us.
Speaker 1: I just still can't believe that you guys weren't using
Speaker 1: these idols like it was good for my health as
Speaker 1: a viewer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually lost so much hair playing this game.
Speaker 2: I was just like I was, clumps was coming out,
Speaker 2: like in part from malnutrition, probably from increased tress going
Speaker 2: through my body.
Speaker 1: But after what had happened to Cann and you know
Speaker 1: you had a good friendship with him, and I think
Speaker 1: you know you saw him go home with an idol,
Speaker 1: and I mean, this isn't the same scenario but at
Speaker 1: the same time play the goddamn idols. Like I just
Speaker 1: need this. I need you to explain it to me again.
Speaker 1: I know I watched it on Telly with the rest
Speaker 1: of Australia last night, but I need you to explain it.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to separate the last two votes that
Speaker 2: you saw, so the one when I went and then
Speaker 2: the one that Jordan went, with all the other votes
Speaker 2: where we had both idols, we were very confident that
Speaker 2: we didn't need to play the idols in the other ones.
Speaker 2: I know you see like paranoia and me being anxious,
Speaker 2: but I clearly wasn't that anxious if I didn't play
Speaker 2: the idols, and at that point in the game, we
Speaker 2: weren't up for sacrificing ourselves. That was a decision that
Speaker 2: we made on the Jordan vote, even though we didn't
Speaker 2: know that kJ had an advantage and that I would
Speaker 2: have to act my ass off and pretend I had
Speaker 2: an idol with me. We got to this place in
Speaker 2: the game where we were like, it's really better to
Speaker 2: have one go forth with the jury and a lot
Speaker 2: of how I'm like adopting Chrisy's language, and then one
Speaker 2: of us in the jury so it was just a
Speaker 2: tactical decision. You know, at every point you've got to
Speaker 2: decide what's good for short term game, what's good for
Speaker 2: long term game, what's the role of revenge? Which really
Speaker 2: I think revenge is not a great strategy because it
Speaker 2: closes your mind to options and time and time again,
Speaker 2: I tried to get Jordy to work with me. It
Speaker 2: blows my mind that I really think I was the
Speaker 2: most fluid player of the season. I was willing to
Speaker 2: go there, there, there, there, and he wasn't willing to
Speaker 2: use me. And I mean, he's still in the game.
Speaker 2: I'm not, but I feel like I could have been
Speaker 2: an outlet for him, and we would have had he
Speaker 2: would have been out of work with the Idols.
Speaker 1: It was a exhausting at times to what you go
Speaker 1: around and comman dear these relationships with people. You know,
Speaker 1: you went out there and in some ways you were
Speaker 1: playing a much more reckless game. I was wanting to
Speaker 1: ask you, was that on purpose? Especially knowing that Mark
Speaker 1: had these two Idols left behind, because so often throughout
Speaker 1: the game he got to sit back instead of being
Speaker 1: more fussery.
Speaker 2: We're different players, like we're different people and different players.
Speaker 2: I did that the whole way through. It's not like
Speaker 2: I just did that when I knew that I was
Speaker 2: at threat. I am a dave picked it on day three,
Speaker 2: like I'm a social butterfly. I like to quollin it
Speaker 2: all over the place, and I like to get in
Speaker 2: people's faces, but in a soft way. It's not parentoware.
Speaker 2: It's not anxiety when you're wanting to have conversations. Everyone
Speaker 2: is having conversations. But I will say, like the perception
Speaker 2: of me having conversations and calling it crazy and unhinged
Speaker 2: versus Geordie having conversations with everyone and people saying he's
Speaker 2: an underdog and he's just playing hard and that's awesome,
Speaker 2: is bullshit. And everyone has a right to play, whether
Speaker 2: you're at the top of the pecking order in the game,
Speaker 2: or you're at the bottom, or you're at the middle.
Speaker 2: And I was doing that while still keeping a majority alliance,
Speaker 2: keeping two idols, and not getting voted out like I
Speaker 2: haven't gotten all until now. I wasn't voted out with
Speaker 2: all that stuff. There's three people in the game who
Speaker 2: have now been voted out, and so they're going to
Speaker 2: have to be that much better if they get to
Speaker 2: the final three to be able to outweigh the people
Speaker 2: such as Mark, Chrissy, Juicy, Dave, and Josh who can say, well,
Speaker 2: we did not get voted out of this game and
Speaker 2: we're still sitting at the end.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's going to be very telling for
Speaker 1: the jury when it gets to that point, because I
Speaker 1: think those factors obviously come into the gameplay. You know,
Speaker 1: I know from back catalog of reality television, you know,
Speaker 1: you can sometimes win a car and then that means,
Speaker 1: oh no, you're not going to win the show now.
Speaker 1: Or you might come back into the show from a twist.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that probably means you're not going to win
Speaker 1: the show now. So like sometimes those advantages are disadvantages
Speaker 1: in the long play.
Speaker 2: Every player is different in how they choose to use it.
Speaker 2: I mean, some people's threat level drops after they've been
Speaker 2: voted out in the comeback because people see them almost
Speaker 2: as damage goods, and so they can kind of hide
Speaker 2: under the radar. And if they explain that, well, well
Speaker 2: then it's a great play. It's all how you choose
Speaker 2: to package up what you've done in the game to
Speaker 2: shift the minds and the hearts, because it's a mind
Speaker 2: and heart game of the people sitting on the jury,
Speaker 2: and I get to sit on the jury. My game
Speaker 2: technically hasn't stopped because I get to have a saying
Speaker 2: who wins. But also I still have a stake in
Speaker 2: the game. And there's only two other people on the
Speaker 2: jury who have that, and that's Jesse with Jordy and
Speaker 2: Jordan with Josh. So no one else has a jury
Speaker 2: member who's in the game.
Speaker 1: It's interesting, it's going to be an advantage. I think
Speaker 1: at that point. A lot of people watching the show
Speaker 1: last night, we're talking about this on social media about
Speaker 1: Jesse's response to the buildup of it possibly be you going.
Speaker 1: Some people read it as though Jesse was so excited
Speaker 1: that you were coming to be on the jury with him,
Speaker 1: and some people read it as though he was excited
Speaker 1: that you were being chucked out of the competition. What's
Speaker 1: the clarity of that.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he was definitely delighted I was getting chucked
Speaker 2: out of the competition. I mean, if I played my idol,
Speaker 2: George was going. So many Jay's in the season, Josh, Jay, Jordan,
Speaker 2: It's like a tongue twister. If I played my idol
Speaker 2: Jeordie was gone, so of course he wants his brother
Speaker 2: to still be in the game. Like Geordie's win is
Speaker 2: Jesse's win in part as well just like my win
Speaker 2: is Mark's win and blah blah blah. So of course
Speaker 2: he was delighted, and so coming on the jury, it's
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's probably arguably the most frostiest
Speaker 2: reception to a jury villa that you've seen.
Speaker 1: Well, if anyone can handle it, it is you. I'm
Speaker 1: going to say all confidence. How long was that pause
Speaker 1: though from Jonathan Mapalia? Did you think not think that
Speaker 1: was a big signed because you know, Cahn talked about
Speaker 1: that when he was on the podcast that Jonathan left
Speaker 1: a really long pause, and so like I but is
Speaker 1: that not the same amount of time that it allows
Speaker 1: for everybody? Do you think there was a significant longer
Speaker 1: period of time for both you and Karhn to make
Speaker 1: a different decision.
Speaker 2: Karn's pause felt palpable one because I knew that he
Speaker 2: was going home and so it felt significant. This one
Speaker 2: got filled with Josh saying play the idol, Play the idol.
Speaker 2: So it felt like it went like this that said
Speaker 2: we knew what we were doing. I knew that Josh
Speaker 2: was writing. I could tell I didn't have confidence before
Speaker 2: I went to tribal council that Josh is writing my
Speaker 2: name down. But Josh wouldn't even look at me in
Speaker 2: the eye a tribal counsel, and so we had already decided,
Speaker 2: you know, we're not going to play the idol. We're
Speaker 2: willing to sacrifice one of us in the game. Proof
Speaker 2: of the pudding is that we did that the previous
Speaker 2: episode by leaving them at camp. And there was this
Speaker 2: part of me that's like, you know what, Josh, you
Speaker 2: can't have your cake and eat it too. If you
Speaker 2: really wanted me to still be in this game, you
Speaker 2: wanted an idle out talk to me at camp. So
Speaker 2: now you can burn both of the alliances in different
Speaker 2: ways because you've basically shown that you were willing to
Speaker 2: burn us, but also you weren't willing to one hundred
Speaker 2: percent be with the other alliance. And now he's going
Speaker 2: to have to deal with that. And this game is
Speaker 2: so fluid, like it changes day by day, and I
Speaker 2: think now that they're all singles, I believe it's going
Speaker 2: to open up and you're not going to see these
Speaker 2: stagnant alliances anymore because it's definitely the end game. They've
Speaker 2: literally got one week left. Now there's pretty much going
Speaker 2: to be a tribal council every single day, so it's
Speaker 2: going to be intense.
Speaker 1: Your interactions with everyone post game on social media says
Speaker 1: everything to me about the type of person that you are.
Speaker 1: So many of your opponents celebrating your time on the show,
Speaker 1: even as far as people saying you're one of the
Speaker 1: best Strain Survivor players in history. That must be a
Speaker 1: really hard thing to do after playing the sort of
Speaker 1: game that you played. How did you tackle that?
Speaker 2: It was very hard for me when I came to
Speaker 2: merge and I knew how good my game had been,
Speaker 2: and Mark probably one didn't realize it as much as
Speaker 2: he now realizes it, but two probably was less compromising.
Speaker 2: And so that's why you see that tension between us,
Speaker 2: because we both felt like we played a great game.
Speaker 2: So we, you know, going into the game, we were like, Okay,
Speaker 2: well one of us can only get to the end,
Speaker 2: the other will go to the jury if we're so
Speaker 2: lucky to get to merge together. And so both of
Speaker 2: us were like, but I should be the one that
Speaker 2: should fight for my case because my case is so good,
Speaker 2: and he's like, no, my case is the best. So
Speaker 2: you see two very stubborn, strong willed, competitive people initially
Speaker 2: fight for the right to play their game. There's so
Speaker 2: much gameplay. It happened like it's kind of a bit
Speaker 2: like premature to have that, but you had to have
Speaker 2: it because essentially one of us had to yield at Merge,
Speaker 2: and Mark ended up kind of I yielded. I was
Speaker 2: a good woman. I yielded. But it did make sense,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people have said things like I'm
Speaker 2: a subjugated woman. I didn't have agency, but I did
Speaker 2: because I could have. You know, told can't to play
Speaker 2: an idol. I could have voted Shay, but I chose
Speaker 2: to go along with it because I did see on
Speaker 2: the face of it, it made the most sense. He
Speaker 2: had the numbers. I came in to Merge with less
Speaker 2: numbers at water two point zero, and my game strategy
Speaker 2: was to lay load for two votes because I had
Speaker 2: really put my head out of water in my pre
Speaker 2: Merge game and I needed to create relationships with people.
Speaker 2: So it made a lot of sense. Even though it
Speaker 2: was hard that by the time I chose to sacrifice there,
Speaker 2: I was fine with it. I really was, because I
Speaker 2: felt I could see the animosity on the jury. Mark
Speaker 2: also was willing to sacrifice himself because going into the
Speaker 2: previous tribal we didn't know who they might go against.
Speaker 2: So the fact that we were both willing to do
Speaker 2: that for each other, I feel like that shows how
Speaker 2: much we were willing to play as a unit that
Speaker 2: it was not even a How calm was that conversation
Speaker 2: when I was like, Okay, we shouldn't play the idols,
Speaker 2: let's leave them at camp, And it was the quickest,
Speaker 2: most seen, less, non emotional conversation. I think that you've
Speaker 2: really seen in the.
Speaker 1: Game so far, absolutely, you know, and sometimes at those
Speaker 1: moments it felt surreal to watch. But I think that's
Speaker 1: what makes good reality TV intestines or participants is when
Speaker 1: people are really being real. And I thought it was
Speaker 1: amazing for us to get an insight into the dynamics
Speaker 1: between you and Mark being husband and wife. That's when
Speaker 1: reality TV, to me sings, is when you see people
Speaker 1: being their authentic self inside a competition like this. You know,
Speaker 1: because you're not supposed to watch that stuff, but we
Speaker 1: as humans love to be a fly on the wall
Speaker 1: for other people's drama, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: We've gotten so many weird commentary about it on both sides,
Speaker 2: Like so many couples have said to me, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: if it was me and my partner, it would have
Speaker 2: been like so intense. They're like, you guys didn't really
Speaker 2: raise your voices at each other. Yes, you were stubborn,
Speaker 2: and both of you for a moment were non compromising,
Speaker 2: and there was a few little kind of curse words,
Speaker 2: but it was pretty well handled between the two of
Speaker 2: you in a high pressure scenario when you're both malnourished
Speaker 2: and you're both fighting hard.
Speaker 1: Well, for me, I just thought it was relationship goals, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so too. And you know, I also
Speaker 2: think it's we both felt safe enough in our relationship
Speaker 2: to voice opposing opinions. I think it actually is a
Speaker 2: testament to our relationship that we you know, neither of
Speaker 2: us are a sheep. We actually both say it as
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: More, people don't need to look at things like that,
Speaker 1: you know, conflict in our relationships at home don't necessarily
Speaker 1: have to be a negative. They actually can be a
Speaker 1: time to be heard. And I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people in this world that could use an inside
Speaker 1: of that. We don't have to agree, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that we're not getting along.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's I think conflict in the professional environments
Speaker 2: but also any personal ones. As you said, it's not
Speaker 2: necessarily toxic. It's that you're willing to work through it
Speaker 2: and voice your opinion and it's not always going to
Speaker 2: look pretty, But doesn't mean you don't have respect for
Speaker 2: each other and doesn't mean that you don't want the
Speaker 2: best for each other at the same time. It's just
Speaker 2: you're two independent people, and the hardest thing in life
Speaker 2: is a relationship of two independent, strong willed people making
Speaker 2: a relationship work.
Speaker 1: What about Mark though? Has he been as eager to
Speaker 1: make these relationships work After the show?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm obviously in the jury quite I'm in
Speaker 2: the middle, and so I've got time, Like I'm going
Speaker 2: to have seven days now with the people that are
Speaker 2: already on the jury and then the people that kind
Speaker 2: of join along the way. That time is really therapeutic
Speaker 2: and cathartic, and you get to experience each other your
Speaker 2: non game version, and so it's like the most realness
Speaker 2: of your relationships, And you know, I think that's where
Speaker 2: really perception shift from like Sam's an evil snake and
Speaker 2: to know like she just played the game hard. She
Speaker 2: just wanted to win, like every single one of us.
Speaker 2: And so I think respect cultivated through that experience. They
Speaker 2: know Mark and I have like we've gone up to
Speaker 2: we've actually seen everyone. We've seen every single person since
Speaker 2: the show's finished. We did a road trip afterwards in
Speaker 2: a camper van with our son and went up to
Speaker 2: Queensland and stayed with Chrissy for a bunch and saw
Speaker 2: Shay and Benny and Andy and Kate and Juicy Dave,
Speaker 2: and we've in Melbourne. We've literally seen everyone. We've done
Speaker 2: like kind of Christmas dinners with Kahn. I'm actually going
Speaker 2: off to Dalsford to stay with Kahn, Nina and Amy
Speaker 2: and Mark over the next two days. We actually love
Speaker 2: each other, like it's a really great cast. I mean,
Speaker 2: I watched the episode last night with Jesse and Amy
Speaker 2: came over as well. So you know, I think people
Speaker 2: get nervous to put themselves in adverse situations, but what
Speaker 2: they don't realize is what comes out of it. That
Speaker 2: adverse and immersive experiences is really enriching relationships. And so
Speaker 2: I don't think we should shy away from challenging scenarios
Speaker 2: that can involve a degree of suffering.
Speaker 1: I think just after you finished talking there, I realized
Speaker 1: that anyone that listens to this podcast is going to
Speaker 1: come and watch your next TED Talk, or at least
Speaker 1: hire you for any kind of relationship building advice.
Speaker 2: Do you know the funniest thing I have done a
Speaker 2: TED Talk, and I do briefly talk about Survivor at
Speaker 2: the end, But the funniest thing is, like my first
Speaker 2: season of Survivor, I found it incredibly hard because I
Speaker 2: was still searching for this sense of belonging because particularly
Speaker 2: when things don't go your way, and a lot of
Speaker 2: pre merged players feel this like their time is cut
Speaker 2: short sometimes because they've either played too hard or they
Speaker 2: haven't been aware of the dynamics of the people around them,
Speaker 2: and so what makes them really successful in the outside
Speaker 2: world doesn't necessarily relate to this environment. And so I
Speaker 2: remember feeling like I was seeking belonging in that place
Speaker 2: I found Mark, but that became part of the reason
Speaker 2: that I got voted out This time I played and
Speaker 2: I wasn't there to feel belonging. But interestingly, you sometimes
Speaker 2: get what you don't expect. And I did feel belonging
Speaker 2: in moments, but it wasn't the agenda. And I think
Speaker 2: if you're going to play Survivor, be comfortable not belonging.
Speaker 2: Just be comfortable being, you know, in this fluidity of
Speaker 2: an environment that is constructed to not be real even
Speaker 2: though it's real for you.
Speaker 1: In that moment writing it all down, Who did you
Speaker 1: feel the worst about throwing under the bus? And there
Speaker 1: was quite a few, but the two that stayed with
Speaker 1: me was Cahn and Jesse and maybe Shane. Can you
Speaker 1: tell me Shay Ruth.
Speaker 2: I was happy for Shadow, And only reason I say
Speaker 2: that is because I hadn't played any of the game
Speaker 2: with Shay and I voted her partner out twice, So
Speaker 2: it was going to be hard to work with Shay
Speaker 2: given that context. You know who you play with him
Speaker 2: in the pre merge game. Really that comes with so
Speaker 2: much time, and it's hard to foster a new relationship
Speaker 2: and emerge if you've never played with someone. So Cahn't Khan,
Speaker 2: Khan can't can't come. I love that man in the
Speaker 2: game and outside of the game. We actually have a
Speaker 2: lot of mutual friends, but we've never spent time together.
Speaker 2: We've never known each other on a personal level, and
Speaker 2: I had heard his name being leaked as a contestant
Speaker 2: prior to the season starting. I thought, there's I perceived
Speaker 2: that he was going to play a really heavy, villainous game, interestingly,
Speaker 2: and then I got on the game and I'm like,
Speaker 2: don't have prior conceptions about how people are going to play.
Speaker 2: Just go with the moment. And he just ended up
Speaker 2: being the absolute delight of a human to be in
Speaker 2: that space with. He was fun, he was light, he
Speaker 2: was nurturing, he was strategic, everything that I liked to
Speaker 2: play with. Every night we do what we called the
Speaker 2: midnight Daily Debrief, and we were like in the bushes
Speaker 2: whilst everyone's asleep, and we were like, okay, I'm a
Speaker 2: midnight daily debrief. And we just spoke candidly and protected
Speaker 2: our thoughts and didn't share them with other people. So
Speaker 2: he'd given me the community necklace, you know, show displayed
Speaker 2: loyalty versus just speaking it and that is hard to
Speaker 2: find in the game of Survivor. And so when Mark
Speaker 2: and that entire alliance from Red two point, I wanted
Speaker 2: him out. I feel like I fought for cunning the
Speaker 2: game more than anyone fought for anyone else. I feel
Speaker 2: like I fought for him more than Nina, foot for Sandra,
Speaker 2: and more than kJ for Sophie. And you know, I
Speaker 2: think that also. Once he was gone, though, I realized, Okay,
Speaker 2: I've got I've got to turn this stuff off. I've
Speaker 2: just got to play. And that's maybe why it made it.
Speaker 2: It was hard, but made it easier to get out
Speaker 2: Jesse because I could see the fact that Jesse and
Speaker 2: I were a thirty day friendship, we versus My alliance
Speaker 2: that was the most important to preserve was my alliance
Speaker 2: with Mark.
Speaker 1: But then your friends will spoiler a lot. You're friends
Speaker 1: with both of them after the show, So for people
Speaker 1: listening to the podcast, you know, stop sitting on the
Speaker 1: edge of your seat over that one. Getting back to
Speaker 1: the start, how did Andemo Shine approach you and Mark
Speaker 1: about returning to the show. I want to know whether
Speaker 1: or not you'd been hitting them up and saying we
Speaker 1: want to come back, or was that them coming.
Speaker 2: To you They came to hopefully I'm allowed to say it,
Speaker 2: they came to us on this season. I never thought
Speaker 2: we would get asked back. I mean, I don't think
Speaker 2: we delivered anything that spectacular. I did actually ask them, like,
Speaker 2: why did you feel like we should get another chance?
Speaker 2: And obviously we fitted the theme, but a lot of
Speaker 2: them kind of said, I feel like you had untapped
Speaker 2: potential to play and you got distracted and you got
Speaker 2: affected by maybe you were a bit naive and unaware.
Speaker 2: And I think when you get a second chance in
Speaker 2: life to do anything, you take it with everything, and
Speaker 2: you kind of learn from the areas of your mistakes
Speaker 2: the first time around and try and give it a
Speaker 2: better bet. And so I remember when I got Jesse's idol.
Speaker 2: I think I said something like this move has been
Speaker 2: five years in the making, which probably would have led
Speaker 2: them to the villainy even more, but it was like,
Speaker 2: you know, to be able to correct trust with someone
Speaker 2: and to do that, and let's be honest, if it
Speaker 2: wasn't the theme of blood Versus Water and never would
Speaker 2: have done that to Jesse. It would have been the
Speaker 2: most ludicrous move to betray someone who trusted you. But
Speaker 2: this theme was different. And I think because we haven't
Speaker 2: seen this theme play out on a stream survivor, it's
Speaker 2: taken people time to get their heads around the fact
Speaker 2: that you've got an automatic alliance member, and that is
Speaker 2: what you should preserve it all cost. My kind of
Speaker 2: like motto going into this game this season this time
Speaker 2: round was don't do anything that's going to negatively detriment
Speaker 2: Mark's game and ours. There are players in this game
Speaker 2: Jordi onto Jesse. That was essentially the reason that Jesse
Speaker 2: went out was how Jordi played. Jesse never knew when
Speaker 2: he was in the game that Jordi had told everyone
Speaker 2: about Mark's idol, So for him, when he got to
Speaker 2: the jury, he didn't realize why I had flipped on him.
Speaker 2: So when I get to the jury and I explain that,
Speaker 2: it's like the penny started to drop, going, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: my brother had betrayed Mark. Therefore, why would Mark work
Speaker 2: with Jordie moving forward? And therefore Sam couldn't have done
Speaker 2: that either. You know, it's so complicated and it takes
Speaker 2: a while to get your head around, even being a player,
Speaker 2: so I can understand why it's confusing for a viewer.
Speaker 1: It's a much bigger flight plan. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: what we see is very minuscule in a way, because
Speaker 1: you actually have to then go back to these alliances
Speaker 1: that are happening around and the reshuffling of that. And
Speaker 1: we know in real life that things can change at
Speaker 1: the very last minute. So but I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: about whether or not you and Mark had planned a
Speaker 1: particular strategy before going into the show, and how much
Speaker 1: of that stayed true to its plan, or whether or
Speaker 1: not you just got in there and had to react.
Speaker 2: I can't believe how much our strategy played out. I
Speaker 2: feel like we to this point delivered on everything that
Speaker 2: we said we would do. We said that we would
Speaker 2: try and be as physically disconnected as possible, which caused problems.
Speaker 2: But the reason we did it is we were scarred
Speaker 2: by season two of being identified as our couple. So
Speaker 2: you know, Mark chooses to not go on a tribe
Speaker 2: with me. It was part of strategy. Didn't mean like
Speaker 2: my gutural response wasn't like, oh my god, my husband
Speaker 2: has to want to play with me, But quickly I remembered,
Speaker 2: oh no, like it's not good to play together at
Speaker 2: this point, wait to hopefully being in a fortunate position
Speaker 2: to merge to do that. When we got to merge,
Speaker 2: we actually were physically disconnected quite a bit. I mean
Speaker 2: straightaway it merged. Jesse and JORDI were like Vis. They
Speaker 2: were running off in every corner like of that campsite,
Speaker 2: always together, and they started to get a bit of
Speaker 2: a reputation of being a bit sketchy and fringe players
Speaker 2: and potentially not as loyal as the rest of the
Speaker 2: majority alliance was. And so I think it was important
Speaker 2: that Mark and I kept that separation because that read
Speaker 2: two point zero blow key. Alliance sometimes questioned whether Mark
Speaker 2: was playing with me or with them, and I think
Speaker 2: that was good strategy because of course he was playing
Speaker 2: with me, but he was making them question that, which
Speaker 2: means they felt more loyalty to him. We also were
Speaker 2: very clear that we were never going to both go
Speaker 2: to the end, So I mean, who knows what Mark's
Speaker 2: going to do, but me being on the jury is
Speaker 2: consistent with that.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's still all happening, you know.
Speaker 2: And his cross he's got two idols.
Speaker 1: You know. The whole disproportion of being attacked online by
Speaker 1: people has led to many discussions about if you were
Speaker 1: a man, would the public have reacted in the same way.
Speaker 1: What is your take on that.
Speaker 2: I don't like everything to be gendered, but I have
Speaker 2: been confronted with so much that I do feel it
Speaker 2: is gendered in the relation to the types of commentary
Speaker 2: that I'm getting. So the best kind of parallel example
Speaker 2: is when Dave did the move on Phoebe. He kind
Speaker 2: of encouraged her and manipulated her to tell the clue
Speaker 2: and then he finds the idol and then votes her out,
Speaker 2: and then he's quite sinister and how he kind of
Speaker 2: communicates about it. He did cop backlash for the move
Speaker 2: being a bad move, but he didn't get any attacks
Speaker 2: to his personal character. So I've had a tax to
Speaker 2: how I am as a parent, what my moral compass
Speaker 2: is in real life, and my aesthetics, in addition to
Speaker 2: it being a bad gameplay and people saying there's no
Speaker 2: way people would vote for them at the end because
Speaker 2: I've done this, No one said that about Dave, And
Speaker 2: in fact, he got all the one votes at the
Speaker 2: very end, and he celebrated as a golden god and
Speaker 2: he's a lovable, villainous player. I'm definitely not lovable. I'm
Speaker 2: a villainous player and I lean into that and I
Speaker 2: own that, but I'm not people. I don't see me lovable,
Speaker 2: even though I'm showing emotion. I'm doing this for my
Speaker 2: son and my family. There's so many things that I
Speaker 2: never speak negatively about any player in the game, but
Speaker 2: still I get tird with like a Russell Hants type
Speaker 2: of villainous player, when really I feel like I'm a cheeky,
Speaker 2: opportunistic villainous player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is how I saw you. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: one hundred percent how I saw you. It's very strange
Speaker 1: to me that anyone saw you any differently. I actually
Speaker 1: saw your gameplay being very similar to Dave's on his
Speaker 1: two times on the show. So why do you think
Speaker 1: that is Like, why do you think that we can't
Speaker 1: see women the same way as we do see men.
Speaker 2: I don't think we've as many women play in this
Speaker 2: type of way, and so therefore maybe there's an unfamiliarity
Speaker 2: with it people are on I mean, I think when
Speaker 2: the first time, you know, you know, Richard Atch played
Speaker 2: on season one in the US when he was villainous,
Speaker 2: people are uncomfortable about it. But it definitely started the
Speaker 2: tone of what Survival is going to look like and
Speaker 2: people went into that. In Australia, we're only seven seasons
Speaker 2: into our iteration of the franchise and we've seen big
Speaker 2: male villainous players. But can you name many big villainous
Speaker 2: female players.
Speaker 1: No, And I think that we need to see more
Speaker 1: of them, and hopefully your gameplay has less women thinking
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be like that. I think next season hopefully
Speaker 1: we see more women be like that.
Speaker 2: And like I know, for example, Hailey, for example, she
Speaker 2: was an incredible, incredible at line, but still didn't get
Speaker 2: tarred heavily with like heavy heavy villain edit. And so
Speaker 2: the way I like to think of it, it is
Speaker 2: as opposed to being deterred because of the online backlash
Speaker 2: that I perceived, future players feel free to lean into
Speaker 2: it because the more we see it, the more audiences
Speaker 2: will be comfortable of it. Be bold, be strategic, and
Speaker 2: don't shy away from strategy because we're all there to play,
Speaker 2: like for there to play, and hopefully both players and
Speaker 2: audience members are like will get used to it. And
Speaker 2: it happened in the US too, like it took a
Speaker 2: really long time before players like Poverty even Sandra were
Speaker 2: loved for being villainous.
Speaker 1: So I have to ask you the question that I
Speaker 1: always ask everyone who joins the podcast, and that is
Speaker 1: what is something from behind the scenes that we as
Speaker 1: an audience didn't get a chance to see, but we
Speaker 1: might appreciate knowing from your experience of making participating in Survivor.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure everyone says, like what you don't
Speaker 2: see on camera is the like humorous, fun, playful sides.
Speaker 2: What A two point zero was an absolute vibe. I
Speaker 2: see red two point zero was like no offense, guys,
Speaker 2: I love you. But the boring men's club where they
Speaker 2: just got fun times was reciting movie quotes, ring, But
Speaker 2: we were extrovert and extra plus musicals. We had so
Speaker 2: much fun and it was hilarious because we kept going
Speaker 2: to tribal council and we literally had to keep voting
Speaker 2: people out and they've got second chances in the game,
Speaker 2: and so it was heavy, but we had a lot
Speaker 2: of fun doing it. I think, you know, there's certain
Speaker 2: players that were really incredible and had so much potential,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to do a shout out to some
Speaker 2: of the female players that I really saw that in
Speaker 2: Brianna Amy and definitely some pre merged players that I
Speaker 2: think have a lot of potential in the game.
Speaker 1: Well, I was obsessed with you right from the very start,
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to be able to have this chat.
Speaker 1: You should be so proud of the gameplay that you
Speaker 1: had on the show, and I hope that it's more
Speaker 1: inspiring for other people joining the future seasons to play
Speaker 1: more like you and to be themselves. So thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 2: We should all be uniquely are even if it's villainous.
Speaker 1: It can be villains on reality TV.
Speaker 2: You know, own it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that helped me, and I think
Speaker 1: that it helped me appreciate you on the show.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think. You know, like when you know
Speaker 2: yourself really well and you're comfortable with yourself, you also
Speaker 2: how to depart your from yourself to play a game.
Speaker 2: And like for me, the delineation between me Samantha Gash
Speaker 2: versus like sat the Gash the player is just so
Speaker 2: clear and I'm like comfortable with the two. Didn't mean
Speaker 2: it didn't take an emotional toll, because as much as
Speaker 2: you can depart from yourself, you also go back to
Speaker 2: yourself at night time. And you know, I had many
Speaker 2: nights where I was like, I can't believe I just
Speaker 2: did that to Jesse, Like, but it's the game and
Speaker 2: we're great friends in real life, and I can't wait
Speaker 2: to watch this final week of it as well.
Speaker 1: This is going to be so exciting. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. As I said, just like so good. And
Speaker 1: if you ever feeling sad about your time on Survivor
Speaker 1: just feel that, hit me up on Twitter because I
Speaker 1: will just say something really effusive about how much I
Speaker 1: loved you on the show, and then you feel better
Speaker 1: about yourself.
Speaker 2: Oh you're a legend. Thanks so much for the chat,
Speaker 2: and I hope you enjoy the rest of it.