WEBVTT - SAMMY TALKS VILLAINS ON SURVIVOR! 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.720 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:05.200 TV Reload the podcast in last week that line Welcome 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.280 back guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.920 on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:14.800 biggest players in television. I've worked in Telly for twenty years, 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.440 but I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers. 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.720 The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.560 had nothing to do with the news and casting agents. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.880 They know from a casting point of view what they need, and. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.440 Editors because that's what we do as editors where storytellers, 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.800 not to forget some incredible executive producers who are making 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.320 some of the best TV in Australia. We thought he'd 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:35.680 be too to self aware. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.479 Well, in fact, exactly the opposite was true and he 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:38.760 became the biggest character in the show. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.360 So thanks for joining me each week and I hope 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.680 the podcast continues to give you real insight into the 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.760 magic of television. Today. On the podcast, I have the 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:52.640 latest evicted castaway, Samantha Gash from Network Ten's Australian Survivor. 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.760 Samantha re entered the competition with her now husband Mark 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.720 Wales and played the game of blood versus water with gusto, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:05.200 passion and determination. Outside of the game, Samantha is a 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.880 social entrepreneur with heart, grit, and intelligence, and is affectionately 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:14.360 nicknamed Sammy. Her authentic storytelling bleeds a mission statement that 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.720 has inspired millions and has won friendships with her philosophies 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.360 on life. You spend a minute with sam and you 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.720 immediately feel heard. On today's podcast, we will talk about 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.200 her time in the competition, the decision she made, the 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.759 flag she copped, and the way in which she built 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.640 lifelong friendships with the entire cast. So let's get started. 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.080 I'd like to welcome Samantha Gash to TV Reload. 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:43.800 I'm a villainous player and I lean into that and 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:44.560 I own. 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.720 That previously on Australian Survivor. 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.520 Be bold, be strategic, and don't shy away from strategy. 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:54.720 Not only are they safe in Mark's hands because he's 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.080 not going home tonight, but it gives us choice. We 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.440 both felt safe enough in our relationship voice opposing opinions. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.080 Anyone has a head and immunity idol, you'd like to 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:05.000 play it, and that would. 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:05.520 Be the time to do so. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.040 At every point, you've got to decide what's good for 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.440 short term game what's good for long term game. 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:15.080 Sixteenth person voted out of Blood Person's Water, Sam. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.960 What comes out of adverse and immersive experiences is really 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:21.520 enriching relationship. 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:23.040 Hi Sammy, how are you? 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.120 I am well? Thanks for having me on the potty. 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.200 Well, congratulations on such an amazing contribution to this year's 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:34.360 Australian Survivor. You were one hundred percent there to play 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.960 a very big game. How are you feeling after watching 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:38.120 last night's episode? 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.200 Oh, it's you do kind of feel like you're back 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.560 in it, but watching it in a weird way. I 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.880 just put my heart and soul into this season as 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:51.440 a returning player that had her time cut short, most 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.480 likely because of how I didn't understand the game fully, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.720 and so I took this opportunity and like gave it everything. 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:04.240 And I was comfortable leaning into villainy, being a swing player, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.320 making bold and risky moves even if it would potentially 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.720 damage my game. And I look back on it and 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.040 just go, oh, how good is it to just fully 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.000 live something and have no regret. I think I played 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.360 the right move last night in sacrificing my game to 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.600 leave Mark with two idols time time again. I've played 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.920 the scenarios of what if I played the idol and 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.400 then stayed and we had a couple with one idol, 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:32.960 And I just kept thinking, that's ego, that's not good strategy, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.520 because you get to the next vote, you know that 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.600 you're going to be the target because you're the only 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.240 couple in the game. You've now only got one idol 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.320 and you don't know who to play it for, and 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:44.680 they could have split the votes. We could have played 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.080 the idol wrong and you're left then with just one 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.000 player and no jewelry. As Chrissy likes to say so, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:52.680 I think it was the best play for us. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.200 I just still can't believe that you guys weren't using 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.720 these idols like it was good for my health as 0:03:58.760 --> 0:03:59.200 a viewer. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:04.040 Yeah, I actually lost so much hair playing this game. 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.160 I was just like I was, clumps was coming out, 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.040 like in part from malnutrition, probably from increased tress going 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:11.920 through my body. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.040 But after what had happened to Cann and you know 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.320 you had a good friendship with him, and I think 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.720 you know you saw him go home with an idol, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.040 and I mean, this isn't the same scenario but at 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.040 the same time play the goddamn idols. Like I just 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.200 need this. I need you to explain it to me again. 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:28.800 I know I watched it on Telly with the rest 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:30.840 of Australia last night, but I need you to explain it. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.520 So I'm going to separate the last two votes that 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.240 you saw, so the one when I went and then 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.840 the one that Jordan went, with all the other votes 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:42.840 where we had both idols, we were very confident that 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.760 we didn't need to play the idols in the other ones. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.200 I know you see like paranoia and me being anxious, 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.200 but I clearly wasn't that anxious if I didn't play 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:55.480 the idols, and at that point in the game, we 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.359 weren't up for sacrificing ourselves. That was a decision that 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.119 we made on the Jordan vote, even though we didn't 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.800 know that kJ had an advantage and that I would 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.839 have to act my ass off and pretend I had 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.400 an idol with me. We got to this place in 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.440 the game where we were like, it's really better to 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.960 have one go forth with the jury and a lot 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.640 of how I'm like adopting Chrisy's language, and then one 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.440 of us in the jury so it was just a 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.279 tactical decision. You know, at every point you've got to 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.719 decide what's good for short term game, what's good for 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.400 long term game, what's the role of revenge? Which really 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.040 I think revenge is not a great strategy because it 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.919 closes your mind to options and time and time again, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:40.840 I tried to get Jordy to work with me. It 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:42.640 blows my mind that I really think I was the 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.479 most fluid player of the season. I was willing to 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.640 go there, there, there, there, and he wasn't willing to 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.360 use me. And I mean, he's still in the game. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.960 I'm not, but I feel like I could have been 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.560 an outlet for him, and we would have had he 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.360 would have been out of work with the Idols. 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.560 It was a exhausting at times to what you go 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.919 around and comman dear these relationships with people. You know, 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.800 you went out there and in some ways you were 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.760 playing a much more reckless game. I was wanting to 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.680 ask you, was that on purpose? Especially knowing that Mark 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.040 had these two Idols left behind, because so often throughout 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:17.920 the game he got to sit back instead of being 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:19.040 more fussery. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.160 We're different players, like we're different people and different players. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.400 I did that the whole way through. It's not like 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.040 I just did that when I knew that I was 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:30.559 at threat. I am a dave picked it on day three, 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.600 like I'm a social butterfly. I like to quollin it 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:36.919 all over the place, and I like to get in 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:41.120 people's faces, but in a soft way. It's not parentoware. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.640 It's not anxiety when you're wanting to have conversations. Everyone 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.200 is having conversations. But I will say, like the perception 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.760 of me having conversations and calling it crazy and unhinged 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.560 versus Geordie having conversations with everyone and people saying he's 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.400 an underdog and he's just playing hard and that's awesome, 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.880 is bullshit. And everyone has a right to play, whether 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.080 you're at the top of the pecking order in the game, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:05.839 or you're at the bottom, or you're at the middle. 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.000 And I was doing that while still keeping a majority alliance, 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.880 keeping two idols, and not getting voted out like I 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.520 haven't gotten all until now. I wasn't voted out with 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.360 all that stuff. There's three people in the game who 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.040 have now been voted out, and so they're going to 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.200 have to be that much better if they get to 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.040 the final three to be able to outweigh the people 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.840 such as Mark, Chrissy, Juicy, Dave, and Josh who can say, well, 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:35.920 we did not get voted out of this game and 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:37.200 we're still sitting at the end. 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.480 Well, I mean, it's going to be very telling for 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.760 the jury when it gets to that point, because I 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.920 think those factors obviously come into the gameplay. You know, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.720 I know from back catalog of reality television, you know, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.480 you can sometimes win a car and then that means, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.120 oh no, you're not going to win the show now. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.880 Or you might come back into the show from a twist. 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.080 Oh no, that probably means you're not going to win 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.800 the show now. So like sometimes those advantages are disadvantages 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:02.000 in the long play. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.360 Every player is different in how they choose to use it. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:08.120 I mean, some people's threat level drops after they've been 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.720 voted out in the comeback because people see them almost 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.320 as damage goods, and so they can kind of hide 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.000 under the radar. And if they explain that, well, well 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.720 then it's a great play. It's all how you choose 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.640 to package up what you've done in the game to 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.000 shift the minds and the hearts, because it's a mind 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.560 and heart game of the people sitting on the jury, 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.200 and I get to sit on the jury. My game 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.960 technically hasn't stopped because I get to have a saying 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.840 who wins. But also I still have a stake in 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.760 the game. And there's only two other people on the 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.240 jury who have that, and that's Jesse with Jordy and 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.360 Jordan with Josh. So no one else has a jury 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:50.480 member who's in the game. 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.840 It's interesting, it's going to be an advantage. I think 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:54.880 at that point. A lot of people watching the show 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.200 last night, we're talking about this on social media about 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.480 Jesse's response to the buildup of it possibly be you going. 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.400 Some people read it as though Jesse was so excited 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.720 that you were coming to be on the jury with him, 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.079 and some people read it as though he was excited 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.480 that you were being chucked out of the competition. What's 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:13.360 the clarity of that. 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.200 I'm sure he was definitely delighted I was getting chucked 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.680 out of the competition. I mean, if I played my idol, 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:24.120 George was going. So many Jay's in the season, Josh, Jay, Jordan, 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.439 It's like a tongue twister. If I played my idol 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.400 Jeordie was gone, so of course he wants his brother 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.120 to still be in the game. Like Geordie's win is 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.280 Jesse's win in part as well just like my win 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.640 is Mark's win and blah blah blah. So of course 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.480 he was delighted, and so coming on the jury, it's 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.719 you know, I think it's probably arguably the most frostiest 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.280 reception to a jury villa that you've seen. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.960 Well, if anyone can handle it, it is you. I'm 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:56.400 going to say all confidence. How long was that pause 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.600 though from Jonathan Mapalia? Did you think not think that 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.760 was a big signed because you know, Cahn talked about 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.400 that when he was on the podcast that Jonathan left 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.360 a really long pause, and so like I but is 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.400 that not the same amount of time that it allows 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.040 for everybody? Do you think there was a significant longer 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.439 period of time for both you and Karhn to make 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:16.400 a different decision. 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.440 Karn's pause felt palpable one because I knew that he 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.160 was going home and so it felt significant. This one 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.800 got filled with Josh saying play the idol, Play the idol. 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.360 So it felt like it went like this that said 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.079 we knew what we were doing. I knew that Josh 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.240 was writing. I could tell I didn't have confidence before 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.440 I went to tribal council that Josh is writing my 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.559 name down. But Josh wouldn't even look at me in 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.479 the eye a tribal counsel, and so we had already decided, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.040 you know, we're not going to play the idol. We're 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.360 willing to sacrifice one of us in the game. Proof 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.079 of the pudding is that we did that the previous 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.440 episode by leaving them at camp. And there was this 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.600 part of me that's like, you know what, Josh, you 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.600 can't have your cake and eat it too. If you 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.120 really wanted me to still be in this game, you 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.280 wanted an idle out talk to me at camp. So 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.360 now you can burn both of the alliances in different 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.440 ways because you've basically shown that you were willing to 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.760 burn us, but also you weren't willing to one hundred 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:14.280 percent be with the other alliance. And now he's going 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.679 to have to deal with that. And this game is 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.599 so fluid, like it changes day by day, and I 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.720 think now that they're all singles, I believe it's going 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:24.800 to open up and you're not going to see these 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:29.800 stagnant alliances anymore because it's definitely the end game. They've 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.520 literally got one week left. Now there's pretty much going 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.199 to be a tribal council every single day, so it's 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:35.920 going to be intense. 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.959 Your interactions with everyone post game on social media says 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.120 everything to me about the type of person that you are. 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.840 So many of your opponents celebrating your time on the show, 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.800 even as far as people saying you're one of the 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.320 best Strain Survivor players in history. That must be a 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.400 really hard thing to do after playing the sort of 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.120 game that you played. How did you tackle that? 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.000 It was very hard for me when I came to 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.320 merge and I knew how good my game had been, 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.560 and Mark probably one didn't realize it as much as 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.320 he now realizes it, but two probably was less compromising. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.960 And so that's why you see that tension between us, 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.160 because we both felt like we played a great game. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.640 So we, you know, going into the game, we were like, Okay, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.280 well one of us can only get to the end, 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.040 the other will go to the jury if we're so 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.760 lucky to get to merge together. And so both of 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.319 us were like, but I should be the one that 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.440 should fight for my case because my case is so good, 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.760 and he's like, no, my case is the best. So 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:35.559 you see two very stubborn, strong willed, competitive people initially 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:40.319 fight for the right to play their game. There's so 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.199 much gameplay. It happened like it's kind of a bit 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.720 like premature to have that, but you had to have 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.480 it because essentially one of us had to yield at Merge, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.920 and Mark ended up kind of I yielded. I was 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.640 a good woman. I yielded. But it did make sense, 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.240 and a lot of people have said things like I'm 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.679 a subjugated woman. I didn't have agency, but I did 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.720 because I could have. You know, told can't to play 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.960 an idol. I could have voted Shay, but I chose 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:08.880 to go along with it because I did see on 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.800 the face of it, it made the most sense. He 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.079 had the numbers. I came in to Merge with less 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.559 numbers at water two point zero, and my game strategy 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:19.800 was to lay load for two votes because I had 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.040 really put my head out of water in my pre 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.440 Merge game and I needed to create relationships with people. 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:27.719 So it made a lot of sense. Even though it 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:32.120 was hard that by the time I chose to sacrifice there, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.760 I was fine with it. I really was, because I 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.640 felt I could see the animosity on the jury. Mark 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.040 also was willing to sacrifice himself because going into the 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.920 previous tribal we didn't know who they might go against. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.440 So the fact that we were both willing to do 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.319 that for each other, I feel like that shows how 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.520 much we were willing to play as a unit that 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.359 it was not even a How calm was that conversation 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.400 when I was like, Okay, we shouldn't play the idols, 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.040 let's leave them at camp, And it was the quickest, 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.920 most seen, less, non emotional conversation. I think that you've 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:03.719 really seen in the. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.760 Game so far, absolutely, you know, and sometimes at those 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.040 moments it felt surreal to watch. But I think that's 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:14.800 what makes good reality TV intestines or participants is when 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.040 people are really being real. And I thought it was 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.840 amazing for us to get an insight into the dynamics 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.560 between you and Mark being husband and wife. That's when 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.400 reality TV, to me sings, is when you see people 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.960 being their authentic self inside a competition like this. You know, 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.560 because you're not supposed to watch that stuff, but we 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.600 as humans love to be a fly on the wall 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.360 for other people's drama, you know what I mean. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.840 We've gotten so many weird commentary about it on both sides, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.920 Like so many couples have said to me, oh my gosh, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.080 if it was me and my partner, it would have 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.720 been like so intense. They're like, you guys didn't really 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.200 raise your voices at each other. Yes, you were stubborn, 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.000 and both of you for a moment were non compromising, 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.160 and there was a few little kind of curse words, 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.240 but it was pretty well handled between the two of 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.320 you in a high pressure scenario when you're both malnourished 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:02.560 and you're both fighting hard. 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.320 Well, for me, I just thought it was relationship goals, right. 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.480 Yes, I think so too. And you know, I also 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.640 think it's we both felt safe enough in our relationship 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.640 to voice opposing opinions. I think it actually is a 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.600 testament to our relationship that we you know, neither of 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.280 us are a sheep. We actually both say it as 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:20.640 it is. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:22.960 More, people don't need to look at things like that, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.320 you know, conflict in our relationships at home don't necessarily 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.720 have to be a negative. They actually can be a 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.680 time to be heard. And I think there's a lot 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.840 of people in this world that could use an inside 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.520 of that. We don't have to agree, but that doesn't 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.120 mean that we're not getting along. 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.200 Yeah, And it's I think conflict in the professional environments 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.680 but also any personal ones. As you said, it's not 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.520 necessarily toxic. It's that you're willing to work through it 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.160 and voice your opinion and it's not always going to 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.160 look pretty, But doesn't mean you don't have respect for 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.360 each other and doesn't mean that you don't want the 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.240 best for each other at the same time. It's just 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.800 you're two independent people, and the hardest thing in life 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.600 is a relationship of two independent, strong willed people making 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:05.720 a relationship work. 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:10.160 What about Mark though? Has he been as eager to 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.680 make these relationships work After the show? 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.160 I mean, I'm obviously in the jury quite I'm in 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.640 the middle, and so I've got time, Like I'm going 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.960 to have seven days now with the people that are 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.200 already on the jury and then the people that kind 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.440 of join along the way. That time is really therapeutic 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.360 and cathartic, and you get to experience each other your 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.720 non game version, and so it's like the most realness 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.360 of your relationships, And you know, I think that's where 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.840 really perception shift from like Sam's an evil snake and 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.480 to know like she just played the game hard. She 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.480 just wanted to win, like every single one of us. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.520 And so I think respect cultivated through that experience. They 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.760 know Mark and I have like we've gone up to 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.280 we've actually seen everyone. We've seen every single person since 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.040 the show's finished. We did a road trip afterwards in 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.280 a camper van with our son and went up to 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.560 Queensland and stayed with Chrissy for a bunch and saw 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.480 Shay and Benny and Andy and Kate and Juicy Dave, 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.520 and we've in Melbourne. We've literally seen everyone. We've done 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.200 like kind of Christmas dinners with Kahn. I'm actually going 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.719 off to Dalsford to stay with Kahn, Nina and Amy 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.880 and Mark over the next two days. We actually love 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.120 each other, like it's a really great cast. I mean, 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.960 I watched the episode last night with Jesse and Amy 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.320 came over as well. So you know, I think people 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:33.280 get nervous to put themselves in adverse situations, but what 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.600 they don't realize is what comes out of it. That 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:42.119 adverse and immersive experiences is really enriching relationships. And so 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.280 I don't think we should shy away from challenging scenarios 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.040 that can involve a degree of suffering. 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.160 I think just after you finished talking there, I realized 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.320 that anyone that listens to this podcast is going to 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.360 come and watch your next TED Talk, or at least 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.959 hire you for any kind of relationship building advice. 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.399 Do you know the funniest thing I have done a 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.479 TED Talk, and I do briefly talk about Survivor at 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.960 the end, But the funniest thing is, like my first 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:12.800 season of Survivor, I found it incredibly hard because I 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.560 was still searching for this sense of belonging because particularly 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.600 when things don't go your way, and a lot of 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.480 pre merged players feel this like their time is cut 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.280 short sometimes because they've either played too hard or they 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.800 haven't been aware of the dynamics of the people around them, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.360 and so what makes them really successful in the outside 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.359 world doesn't necessarily relate to this environment. And so I 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.040 remember feeling like I was seeking belonging in that place 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.320 I found Mark, but that became part of the reason 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.879 that I got voted out This time I played and 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:47.679 I wasn't there to feel belonging. But interestingly, you sometimes 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:49.879 get what you don't expect. And I did feel belonging 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.520 in moments, but it wasn't the agenda. And I think 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.560 if you're going to play Survivor, be comfortable not belonging. 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.960 Just be comfortable being, you know, in this fluidity of 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.000 an environment that is constructed to not be real even 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:02.960 though it's real for you. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.960 In that moment writing it all down, Who did you 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:10.080 feel the worst about throwing under the bus? And there 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:11.720 was quite a few, but the two that stayed with 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.399 me was Cahn and Jesse and maybe Shane. Can you 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:16.120 tell me Shay Ruth. 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:20.040 I was happy for Shadow, And only reason I say 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.040 that is because I hadn't played any of the game 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.760