1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: Good morning, team, Welcome to the Daily Odds. It is Tuesday, 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: the twenty third of November. A huge happy birthday. Shout 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: out to Miley Cyrus Love the Climb, one of my 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: favorite songs. Today on the podcast, Billy is going to 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: be talking to an expert into intergenerational inequality, A complex 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: set of words with very serious implications for you and I. 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: But before we get to that chat, let's hit the headlines. Billy, 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: what's making news this morning? 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: So yesterday, Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced that from the 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: first of December, fully vaccinated eligible visa holders can enter 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: Australia without needing to apply for a travel exemption. Eligible 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: visa holders include skilled and international students, as well as 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: humanitarian and provisional family visa holders. 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: The Northern Territory recorded two new cases of COVID nineteen yesterday, 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: with Chief Minister Michael Gunner announcing an extension to the 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: lockdown in Catherine. The lockdown is now scheduled to end 17 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: at six pm on Wednesday evening. 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: A car has plowed into crowds at a Christmas parading 19 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: in Wisconsin, hitting more than twenty adults and children. Police 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: Chief Don Thompson said some people had been killed, but 21 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: did not confirm an exact number. One person is in custody, 22 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: but no motive has been established. 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: And today's good news, South Australia has officially opened borders 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: for fully vaccinated domestic travelers, so there is a few 25 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: details to be aware of for this one. Travelers from 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: any LGA that has community transmission will need a COVID 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: nineteen test within seventy two hours of their arrival. In essay, 28 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: travelers from LGAs with a fully vaccinated rate of between 29 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: eighty and ninety percent must take a test within twenty 30 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: four hours of arrival, and those coming from an LGA 31 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: which has a vaccination rate of less than eighty percent 32 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: will have to quarantine for seven days. Those coming from 33 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: an LGA which has a vaccination rate of less than 34 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: eighty percent will have to steal quarantine for seven days. 35 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Intergenerational equity is defined as meeting the needs of the 36 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet 37 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: their needs. It articulates the concept of fairness amongst all 38 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: generations in the use and conservation of not only in 39 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: the environment and natural resources, but also economic systems, housing, 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: social security, and anywhere where humans and the Government interact. 41 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: Last week, one of Australia's major think tanks, the Gratton Institute, 42 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: called on a parliamentary inquiry into intergenerational inequality in Australia 43 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: and Billy had the chance to sit down with one 44 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: of the key researchers from the institute, Thomas Walker, for 45 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: a chat. 46 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: To start, do you mind introducing yourself and what you do? 47 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 3: Sure, no worries. I'm Thomas Walker. I'm a thirty two 48 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 3: year old millennial economist and I contribute to a really 49 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 3: passionate organization called Think Forward. So we're a bipartisan think 50 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: tank and we're an advocacy group for young Australians, and 51 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 3: we see young Australians as being sort of entire millennial 52 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 3: generation plus Gen Z plus children and people not even 53 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 3: born yet. We're raising awareness and trying to spur action 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: on issues that we see around intergenerational fairness or injustice 55 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 3: in Australia. Into generational fairness describes this sort of idea 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 3: that there should be economic and social fairness between generations. 57 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 3: I guess the simplest way to say is that every 58 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: generation should leave the world or the country in a 59 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: better place, or at least no worse off than I 60 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 3: guess when they found it, and that every person is 61 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 3: equal no matter when they were born. 62 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: Essentially, it's looking at if I, as a twenty four 63 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: year old Australian had it harder than my parents did, 64 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: for example. 65 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I guess the way it's meant to work 66 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: is that economically and socially each generation is better off 67 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 3: than the one before, and that's how it has worked 68 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 3: throughout Australia's history. But we're starting to see some economic 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 3: data now and some research, particularly from people like the 70 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: Gratin Institute, who are starting to see that the millennial 71 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 3: generation might just be the first generation in Australia's history 72 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: to have worse economic outcomes than the generation prior. Climate 73 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 3: change is an obvious example of sort of an intergenerational injustice. 74 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: Older generation it's got all the sort of the benefits 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 3: of not having to worry about the environment, while younger 76 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 3: people and people not even born yet will have to 77 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 3: sort of pay most of the costs. But at think forward, 78 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 3: we're more sort of focused on I guess the drier 79 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 3: policy areas like taxation and superannuation, and we're seeing lots 80 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 3: of policies in those spaces that are benefiting older, wealthier Australians, 81 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 3: I guess to the detriment of younger working Australians. 82 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: Can you tell me more a little bit about one 83 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: of the other areas that intergenerational injustice is particularly entrenched. 84 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: There's a few different areas. The first one we see 85 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: is around I guess government spending. The baby boomer generation 86 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: is really large, and quite rightly, they're going to be 87 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: supported with lots of government spending around age care and 88 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: health services, and that's a really great thing. But due 89 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: to sort of the size of that cohort, the size 90 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 3: of them compared to the working age population is much larger, 91 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 3: So as young people, more of our tax dollars are 92 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 3: going to go to supporting aged and health care services 93 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: for that group, which is fine, that's a worthy thing 94 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: to do. But we say that the injustice comes because 95 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 3: that burden is made a lot heavier through a series 96 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 3: of tax breaks and concessions for older wealth owners, such 97 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 3: as negative gearing, capital gains, tax concessions, franking credits, all 98 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 3: those sorts of things. So older generations who are really 99 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 3: wealthy are getting all these tax concessions and leaving a 100 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 3: much heavier burden on younger people to pick up the 101 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 3: tab for all those health services. And the other point 102 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 3: around that sort of government spending is that we've accrued 103 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 3: lots of debt because of COVID. Again, that's quite rightly, 104 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 3: like we had to keep the economy going, But people 105 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: who retired and wealthy who were protected their health was 106 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: prioritized by the lockdowns are not paying their fair share 107 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: and sort of tax to contribute to paying that back, 108 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: whereas us younger people are going to have to pay 109 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: that back over the next two or three decades, and 110 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: that's money we can't spend other things that might have 111 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 3: been able to support our lives. 112 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 2: And it's also relevant with the housing market as well, 113 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 2: isn't it. I recently interviewed Jason Felinsky, who's a Liberal MP, 114 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: and he used intergenerational theft as a term to describe 115 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: the housing market. 116 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it absolutely is. It's a system where people 117 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 3: who own houses who are predominantly older are being looked 118 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 3: after by our policymakers of expensive young people who are 119 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 3: locked out, and that has lots of flow and impacts 120 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 3: on our lives and our ability to start a family, 121 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 3: my ability to grow wealth. All those sorts of other 122 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: sort of factors. It's a big problem for our country 123 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 3: that young people don't have that same access to that 124 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 3: wealth building asset that is housing. 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: And so you've asked for an inquiry into intergenerational fanness. 126 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: What are you hoping the inquiry will achieve? 127 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 3: We just want people to start talking about these issues. 128 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: There's this sort of perception that young people are sort 129 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 3: of a bit disengaged, particularly when it comes to things 130 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: like taxation policy. So there's not even really that conversation 131 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 3: around how the tax system is impacting upon young people. 132 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 3: And we've been working with some really great other youth 133 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 3: organizations such as the Foundation for Young Australians, Youth Action, 134 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: National Youth Commission for Australia and youth councils from around 135 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: the country to really get this conversation going. And so 136 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 3: the inquiries the sort of the direct method or direct 137 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: tool within Parliament to get our decision makers to actually 138 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 3: sit down and think about the intergenerational outcomes from their 139 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 3: tax and spending policies. 140 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: So the hope is that by having this inquiry and 141 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: by more people talking about it, there will be more 142 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: pressure on the government to actually implement policies that benefit 143 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: young people. 144 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, we hope there's an intergenerational plan and intergenerational 145 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 3: sort of lens put across different policy making and we 146 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 3: have to sort of overcome this barrier that because older 147 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: generations are much larger than young people in their voting 148 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: power is really strong. I only need to look at 149 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 3: sort of Labour ditching their sort of taxation policies from 150 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: last election around negative gearing and franking credits to understand 151 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: how powerful these older lobby groups are for older Australians. 152 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: And so we're really hoping to get some support from 153 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 3: both sides of politics to have this conversation in Parliament 154 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 3: to make sure that young people's voices around these issues 155 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: can really be heard. 156 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: And have we seen any other countries conduct an inquiry 157 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: into intergenerational fairness? 158 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, we have. Lots of other countries are a lot 159 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 3: more advanced in this space than us. The example we 160 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: like to use is the United Kingdom, which had an 161 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: inquiry a couple of years ago. There's a similar group 162 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: to us who lobbied really hard and we're really unsuccessful 163 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: in getting this inquiry up. An inquiry in the UK 164 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 3: found that there has been persistent short term thinking in 165 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 3: government outlook and policy and a lack of consideration for 166 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 3: different generations and the long term impacts of policy. The 167 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 3: inquiry found a lack of thought and effort around supplying 168 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 3: affordable homes, education training system wasn't meeting the needs of 169 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: young people, in secure employment was impacting young people really strongly. 170 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: And again this failure to make a sort of a 171 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 3: proper provision for the growing costs of age care, which 172 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 3: was burdening younger tax payers. And we're pretty confident that 173 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 3: an acquiry in Australia would find very similar results. 174 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: Just lastly, without victim blaming too much, is there something 175 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 2: that young people could be doing differently apart from not 176 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: buying smashed avocado or is this out of our control. 177 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: It's really hard because these are really deep, ingrained structural issues, 178 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: But it's just about getting involved, raising our voice, making 179 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 3: political leaders realize that we are thinking about these issues, 180 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 3: that we're not disengaged, and that as voters they really 181 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 3: do need to consider our futures and our perspectives and 182 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 3: develop policies that support younger generations as they move from 183 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: education to work, to buying a home to having a family, 184 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 3: and making sure that the barriers to that that are 185 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 3: currently been put up in front of us are removed. 186 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: I think it'd be a pretty terrible legacy for sort 187 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 3: of our older decision makers if they were to leave 188 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 3: office and they were leaving the country in a sort 189 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 3: of a worse place than they found it. 190 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: Thomas, thank you so much for your time. I really 191 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: appreciate it. 192 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: No worries, Billy, It's great.