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Speaker 1: Now, we know there's been a lot happening in the

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Speaker 1: correction space over recent weeks, and this morning it's been

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Speaker 1: announced that the government's going to deliver what they say

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Speaker 1: is critical workforce support for NT correction staff through a

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Speaker 1: partnership between the Department of Corrections and G four S,

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Speaker 1: who they've described as a leader in custodial services. Now

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Speaker 1: joining me in the studio is the Northern Territory Corrections Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: Matthew Varley. Good morning, Commissioner, Good morning Katie, Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for your time this morning. Now, first off, on

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Speaker 1: the announcement today G four S. So they are going

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Speaker 1: to be coming in and supporting your staff by the

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Speaker 1: look of it, tell us what they're going to do exactly.

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, this is on the back of those legislation

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Speaker 2: changes we spoke about a couple of weeks ago and

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Speaker 2: our new ability to appoint special correctional officers to provide

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Speaker 2: additional surge support to our frontline workforce. We know that

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Speaker 2: our prison population has grown heaps, and we know that

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Speaker 2: our staff have been stretched more than ever before we

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Speaker 2: introduce these amendments, and we've taken up this contract in

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Speaker 2: an effort to provide a new support service to corrections,

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Speaker 2: which has never been done before in the NT. But

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Speaker 2: what they're going to be doing, Katie, is escort services

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Speaker 2: outside the wire of the prisons. So just to be

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Speaker 2: really clear, this is not about putting private correctional offices

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Speaker 2: inside prisons. This is about undertaking duties like the Darwin

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Speaker 2: local Court cells, the doc escorts, the hospital escorts, the

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Speaker 2: transfers between facilities.

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Speaker 1: It look it seems like the announcement has been made

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Speaker 1: really rather quickly. I mean the legislation only passed a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. How have you gone through this

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Speaker 1: pecurement process that fast?

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Speaker 2: Well? With energy, Katie, Our team has done a cracker

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Speaker 2: of a job and we've worked. We had a specialist

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Speaker 2: team of Department of Corrections senior folk. We also had

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Speaker 2: some support from the Treasury Department, the Solicitor for the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory. We had a private law firm helping us

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Speaker 2: do some probity advice and specialist contract lawyers. Now we

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Speaker 2: did a select procurement and what that means is we

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Speaker 2: approach directly five major national providers of these services all

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Speaker 2: into state. And these are providers that provide those services

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Speaker 2: elsewhere and then we run a rapid procurement process and

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Speaker 2: the team have worked around the clock, really, Katie for

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Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: So G four is so I'm assuming that they provide

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Speaker 1: similar services in other states, is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So, for example, Katie, they have the

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Speaker 2: contract with the Victorian government for all of their prisoner

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Speaker 2: transfer and escort services including you know, court security, watchhouse transfers,

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Speaker 2: hospital transfers, and they think they've done that for some

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Speaker 2: twenty five years.

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Speaker 1: Right, So how many staff are we expecting to sort

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Speaker 1: of come on board as part of this partnership with

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Speaker 1: G four.

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Speaker 2: S Well, the benefit of this contract Katie is we're

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Speaker 2: going to start relatively small, but then we can grow.

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Speaker 2: So the answer to your question is, I'm hoping to

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Speaker 2: have the first twenty officers online in the next couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks, certainly inside the month of March, and those

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Speaker 2: twenty officers, with an advanced planning team, will be focused

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Speaker 2: on designing a new service around the courts and court transport.

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Speaker 1: And and are those offices going to come from into state?

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Speaker 2: Yes, they are, and these are offices and we've negotiated

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Speaker 2: this through the contract, Katie, that are currently engaged in

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Speaker 2: this work into states. So G fours will surge them

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Speaker 2: to the Northern Territory and we will provide them with

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Speaker 2: some local orientation training. But these offices all come with

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Speaker 2: their relevant certificates in correctional practice and have been doing

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Speaker 2: this work elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming this is a question for you.

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Speaker 1: It may not be where are they going to live? Like,

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Speaker 1: are they just going to are they just going to

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Speaker 1: integrate into the community like any other worker would if

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Speaker 1: they move here, or what's the situation.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're obviously going to work through that with G

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Speaker 2: four S, and I think in the early weeks of it,

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Speaker 2: it'll be a bit of a rotational fly in flyout

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Speaker 2: arrangement over the first early months, as well as G

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Speaker 2: fours then stabilizing themselves here in the territory and putting

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Speaker 2: down a bit of a platform locally.

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Speaker 1: Sounds expensive, I mean, is that more cost effective than

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Speaker 1: having your own prison staff do over time?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing is we're doing. Our

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Speaker 2: staff are working incredibly hard every day, doing lots of overtime.

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Speaker 2: And I was at Bremer yesterday and we had staff

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Speaker 2: on over time there manning the block. So they're already

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Speaker 2: working incredibly hard and making it work. We've always said

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Speaker 2: that as well as the watch house, as well as

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Speaker 2: the courts, as well as everything else. The simple answer

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Speaker 2: is there's not enough of us to do the job.

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Speaker 2: We've got five hundred more prisoners than we had a

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Speaker 2: few months ago. So corrections with five hundred more prisoners

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Speaker 2: is a very expensive business, Katie, as you can imagine.

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Speaker 2: So the short answer is we anticipate that as this

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Speaker 2: project stabilizes over the longer term, and I'll talk about

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Speaker 2: that later. Is that you know this is this will

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Speaker 2: become an alternative workforce for corrections, it'll be cost efficient.

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Speaker 2: But I want to be really clear, this is not

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Speaker 2: about cost cutting. We've always said that this is about

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Speaker 2: making sure we have a strong workforce that does its

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Speaker 2: job well. We've got our officers inside the prisons doing

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Speaker 2: what they do well, and we can leverage this support

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Speaker 2: for movements.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, in terms of those numbers inside the prisons at

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Speaker 1: the moment, how are things looking, how many prisoners have

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Speaker 1: you got?

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Speaker 2: I think last time we spoke, Katie, we talked about

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Speaker 2: this being a twenty four to seven proposition for us,

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Speaker 2: and we continue to manage that. The short answer is

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Speaker 2: today we've hit another all time high. So my numbers

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Speaker 2: this morning were two seven hundred and thirty three in

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Speaker 2: my custody, and I think there's another fifty or sixty

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Speaker 2: in police watch houses that are in police custody pending

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Speaker 2: transfer to us. So you know, we're nudging very close

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Speaker 2: to that twenty eight hundred number. We're managing that on

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Speaker 2: a daily basis. We're in you know, I think nine

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Speaker 2: sites at the moment within count watchhouses up. But there's

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Speaker 2: a light at the end of the tunnel, and we've

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Speaker 2: been working incredibly hard behind the scenes to bring on

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Speaker 2: that new infrastructure, Katie, and we should have some plans

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Speaker 2: for that really soon.

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Speaker 1: So you said, then we're at an all time high

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Speaker 1: with those prison numbers two seven hundred and thirty three

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Speaker 1: plus an additional fifty to sixty in the watch housers.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the modulos, in terms of that additional infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: how quickly is that going to come online?

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Speaker 2: Good question. So our next renovated block at Bremer Correctional Center,

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Speaker 2: which we call h Block fifty two beds, we got

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Speaker 2: certification for that on the weekend and our team was

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Speaker 2: in there yesterday prepping that block, and I had an

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Speaker 2: inspection yesterday afternoon with the team. So we're moving fifty

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Speaker 2: two prisoners into that block today. So that's happening. And

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Speaker 2: then Katie, we have got the next one hundred beds

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Speaker 2: at Berrima I expect to have online by the end

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Speaker 2: of this week, and the modulars in Alice Springs, the

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Speaker 2: ninety six beds that we've spoken about, are ready to go.

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Speaker 2: They've been fitted out and cleaned and checked and tested.

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Speaker 2: The hold up there at this moment is the fire

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Speaker 2: system and the digital fire system talking to the Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs prison fire system, and our infrastructure folks are working

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Speaker 2: through making that integration work. As soon as the fire

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Speaker 2: system is ready and we get occupancy certificates, will be

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Speaker 2: in there all right.

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Speaker 1: So do you anticipate that when that happens, when you've

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Speaker 1: got those fifty two prisoners into the H block and

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Speaker 1: then the one hundred beds by the end of the week,

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Speaker 1: that those watch houses are no longer going to need

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Speaker 1: to be utilized for prisoners.

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Speaker 2: Well, we are going to be moving a lot of

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Speaker 2: prisoners out of watchhouses. We're in three watchhouses here in

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Speaker 2: Darwin and obviously Ala Springs. Our priority will be to

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Speaker 2: relieve as much of that pressure as possible, but I

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Speaker 2: expect we'll still have some prisoners sitting in watchhouses pending admissions.

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Speaker 2: But you know what we're talking about, Katie, is in

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Speaker 2: you know, two hundred and fifty odd beds being online,

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Speaker 2: you know, in about a week's time roughly, as we

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Speaker 2: scale them on. And then I have another block at BREMA,

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Speaker 2: which is another fifty odd beds that should be online

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Speaker 2: by the end of this month March.

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Speaker 1: So how big a difference is that going to make

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Speaker 1: for you, for all of the staff, for everybody within

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Speaker 1: the prisons.

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Speaker 2: What's a huge difference because it means we can get

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Speaker 2: back to what we do best, which is running you know, secure, stable,

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Speaker 2: operating regimes in daily prison environments, and prisons are different

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Speaker 2: to watchhouses. We've always said that, Katie, what we want,

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Speaker 2: and particularly at Behrama, all of the prisoners at BRAMA,

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Speaker 2: you know, we want them out and about during the day.

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Speaker 2: We want them working. You know, they've done huge amounts

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Speaker 2: of work, you know, even on the weekend, Katie. And

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Speaker 2: this is the bit that people don't see, is prisoners

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Speaker 2: actually bolting together the bunk beds that are being installed

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Speaker 2: into these blocks. So already our work crews are making

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Speaker 2: sure this place works. But getting out of watchhouses has

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Speaker 2: always been our plan. I can't promise Territorians that I'll

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Speaker 2: be able to solve all of the problem this month,

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Speaker 2: but three hundred odd beds in the next month is

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Speaker 2: a huge shot in the arm for us.

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Speaker 1: It really sounds like it will make a big difference.

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Speaker 1: I mean, three hundred additional beds. It's I would imagine

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Speaker 1: a lot of work's gone into getting to this point.

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Speaker 1: How big an impact then are these contractors or this

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Speaker 1: G fours contract, How big an impact is that going

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Speaker 1: to have then in terms of those actually behind the

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Speaker 1: wire being able to service all the prisoners that are

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Speaker 1: behind the wire and be able to free up some

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Speaker 1: of the staff to well, some of these contractors obviously

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Speaker 1: doing the other stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's our whole strategy, Katie, is you know

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Speaker 2: on any given day, I've got eight offices at Darwin

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Speaker 2: Local Court. We're moving prisoners all around Darwin and Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs and of course up the highway. I have offices

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Speaker 2: in the hospitals. I have officers escorting prisoners to specialist

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Speaker 2: medical appointments, so these contractors can do that work for us,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you know those officers that

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Speaker 2: were doing those driving around can and you know other

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Speaker 2: sport work can be back inside the wire, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, if you've just joined us, we are indeed joined

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Speaker 1: on the show by the Northern Territory Corrections Commissioner Matthew

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Speaker 1: Varley Commissioner. A question from a listener it said, Hi,

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Speaker 1: KTS and New South Wales governments returning their private prisons

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Speaker 1: back to government operations, citing, amongst other things, safety, Do

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Speaker 1: you still think these private officers are not a safety issue?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing I would say is

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Speaker 2: safety is always my number one issue, as well as training,

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Speaker 2: qualifications and skills Katie, and they all come hand in hand,

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Speaker 2: so you know, I can't comment on the New South

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Speaker 2: Wales example. Different jurisdictions are taking different approaches to their

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Speaker 2: modeling for corrections. That said, as I mentioned, gfours has

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Speaker 2: had a contract in place with Victoria for two decades.

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Speaker 2: They also run I think a service in South Australia,

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Speaker 2: as do other jurisdictions have similar models in place in

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Speaker 2: essay and what is it WA, So I guess my

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Speaker 2: point is the contract that we've designed allows me to

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Speaker 2: be able to demonstrate that I have total control over

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Speaker 2: the service. I can decide where I use these officers.

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Speaker 2: I can remove an officer if I'm not satisfied with

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Speaker 2: their performance, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm very confident

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Speaker 2: that G four S is up to the task. Our

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Speaker 2: job is to make sure that we integrate at well

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Speaker 2: with our existing service and our existing work, and that's

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Speaker 2: what we're focused on now.

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Speaker 1: So a question here from Bill. He wants to know, Katie,

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Speaker 1: are these prison people going to be five fo meaning

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Speaker 1: G four is obviously you touched on the fact that

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Speaker 1: to begin with they may be flying in and out.

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Speaker 1: Is that the long term plan? Well?

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Speaker 2: No, Firstly, this contract that we've signed on Friday night

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Speaker 2: is for six months. You might remember when we last

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Speaker 2: spoke Katie that we were going to do this in

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Speaker 2: two stages. First was the rapid procurement, which is what

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Speaker 2: this is, and then we will also be designing and

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Speaker 2: going to market with a long term plan for the

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Speaker 2: years ahead. Now, of course, yes, in the early stages,

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Speaker 2: gfours will be five FOT because we don't have enough

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Speaker 2: staff here in the territory and they're not here, So

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Speaker 2: it makes common sense that they will surge existing officers

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Speaker 2: who are already experienced and qualified in this task from

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Speaker 2: other jurisdictions and send them here. But that's the short

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Speaker 2: answer to how we're going to make this work in

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Speaker 2: the immediate term.

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Speaker 1: All right, before I let you go, we know there

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Speaker 1: was a vote of no confidence against you a week

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Speaker 1: or so ago. Do you feel like you're being attacked

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Speaker 1: by the union.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm disappointed in how the union has expressed its

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Speaker 2: vote of no confidence. I believe that I'm doing the

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Speaker 2: right thing for the organization and for my staff and

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Speaker 2: for the territory. I was out in the prisons last

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Speaker 2: week and walking and talking to staff, and as I've

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Speaker 2: always said, there's some that disagree with what I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: There's others that say, we just need a hand commissioner,

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Speaker 2: and you know, there's a lot of pressure Katie. I

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Speaker 2: met with on Friday afternoon, the Senior Prison Officers Association. Now,

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Speaker 2: this is the group that represents our middle managers in

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Speaker 2: the prison, our senior chief superintend sorry, our superintendent's, our

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Speaker 2: deputy superintendents, and our chief correction officers. And I believe

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Speaker 2: I have their support in what we're trying to achieve

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Speaker 2: here because they know and they understand that we have

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Speaker 2: to grow and we have to uplift our capability. However,

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Speaker 2: we'll still be working with the United Workers Union, consulting

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Speaker 2: them on these changes, and I'm just asking them to

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Speaker 2: work with me on this and let's move ahead.

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Speaker 1: So, by the sounds of it, you do have the

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Speaker 1: support of sort of middle management or senior management. Are

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Speaker 1: you concerned that you don't have the confidence of others

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Speaker 1: within the workforce.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the union has said that, and obviously

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Speaker 2: it concerns me and I wish that weren't true. But

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Speaker 2: if it is true, and that is what you know,

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of those correctional officers believe, if then

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Speaker 2: I would ask them to pay attention to the information

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Speaker 2: I'm providing, to the communications that I'm sending and judge

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Speaker 2: us on our results. Now, I don't expect them to

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Speaker 2: agree with me, but I asked them to judge us

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Speaker 2: on the fact that we're trying to build a better

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Speaker 2: correction system for the territory.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go, we've spoken before, and I

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Speaker 1: know there's been a lot of discussion from our listeners

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Speaker 1: about some of the programs not being able to happen,

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Speaker 1: i e. The mowing of senior's lawns and things like

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Speaker 1: that that some of the low level or low security

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Speaker 1: prisoners conduct. Is there, how quickly, with all of these

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Speaker 1: changes that are coming into play, how quickly do you

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Speaker 1: think that that kind of thing might be able to

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Speaker 1: get back up and running.

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Speaker 2: Well, I hope as quickly as possible, Katie. And that's

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Speaker 2: also linked, as you said, to stabilizing our workforce and

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Speaker 2: getting our prisons up and running and unlocked. We're still

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Speaker 2: in difficult straits at the moment. You know, our prisons

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Speaker 2: are down on their activity, but behind the wire, our

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Speaker 2: prisoners are working as part of work parties every day

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Speaker 2: to make sure kitchens run and that place is tidy,

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Speaker 2: and that we're doing our regular work. But as we've

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Speaker 2: stabilized that workforce, you know, I hope that we'll see

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Speaker 2: community service work parties back out again soon. I just

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Speaker 2: don't have a time frame on that right now.

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Speaker 1: Well, Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley always appreciate your time. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for joining us in the studio this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, Thank you