1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Do you find yourself set up for a productive day 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: only to be derailed by your emails? Checking and replying 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: to emails always takes up more time than expected and 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: can really bog us down and derail productivity. The problem 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: of spending way too much time in my inbox has 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: been bugging me for some time, so I was very 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: excited to find out that Michael Bungay Stania has had 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: similar problems and has been working on solutions. Michael is 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal best selling author of The Coaching Habit, 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: which Brene Brown called a classic with over one point 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: five million books sold. Michael was named the number one 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: thought leader in coaching by Thinkers fifty and his insights 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: have transformed how leaders all around the world work. He's 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: clearly very busy and can't afford to waste time on emails, 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: yet he still finds himself procrastinating with them. But he 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: has a lot of strategies and tricks that we can 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: all benefit from using. Welcome to How I Work, a 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your day. 19 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. On today's Quick Win episode, 20 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: we go back to an interview from the past and 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: reveal a quick win. But this one was actually so 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: special that we kept it out of the main episode 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: so we could share it with you today. To start, 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: I asked Michael about his experience being stuck in the 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: email cycle and how he's working to break free from it. 26 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: Like, I'm struggling a little bit to know how to 27 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: break it, because I'm learning that, you know, for sure, 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: one of the ways to break email addictions stop sending emails, 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: because emails sent create emails that respond to it. But 30 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: you know, I have too many email accounts, Like I 31 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: have one for NBS dot Works, I have one for 32 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: Boxer Crowns, a company I started. I have one a Gmail, 33 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: one for personal. I have one for change Signal, a 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 2: new project that I'm launching. So one is I've got 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 2: too many email boxes anyway, But that's not the real problem. 36 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 2: The real problem is I will go to answering email 37 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: as a form of busyness. It's relatively easy. I can 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: work hard at my screen and go tap tap, tap tap, 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: and I can have small little hits of dopamine as 40 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: I make progress, and I hit send on a bunch 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 2: of things. But do I want to die and have 42 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: on my grave. Michael managed his email quite well. At times, 43 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, that's that's not kind of aspirational for me, 44 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: but I notice just how comforting it is. I just 45 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 2: noticed that because I run my own organization and I'm 46 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: the boss, in some ways, I can dream about email 47 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: in a way that some people, Paul won't be able 48 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: to dream about email. But what I know is that 49 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: I am outstanding at hacking every system I set up 50 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: to try and protect me from email. So you know, 51 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: I have I think called Mailman, which means that the 52 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: email only gets delivered three times a day. But I 53 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: know how to hack that. So if I need to 54 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: kind of get it, I can do that. I use Superhuman, 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: which helps you get faster and email, and that's helpful 56 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: as well, but I still spend a lot of time 57 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: doing my email on Superhuman. So literally, just before this call, 58 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: I was with Claudine is my assistant, and I'm like Claudine. 59 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: But March is fairly open. The goal is by the 60 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: end of March, I am not the first touch on 61 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: any single email. Everything gets kind of worked through you first, 62 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: and then I get what's left over. Now I don't 63 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: know what that looks like, because I'm like, in Claudine, 64 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: you need to set the rules on this, because if 65 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: I set the rules, I break the rules and I'm 66 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: a nightmare. So I've just asked the guy, so let's 67 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: go away, and I have you draft to first go 68 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: at this, which is what's the process, what's the system 69 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: that will keep me out of email? What's the price 70 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: I pay for breaking the rules? Because part of the 71 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 2: challenge for me is because I'm the founder, there's no 72 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: price for disobedience. Every guy's oh, Michael, he's just you know, 73 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: he'll do whatever he wants. He's such a maverick, and 74 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 2: I'm like, it's terrible. I need there to be a price. 75 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: So it's like, what is it? Is it? Like, Michael, 76 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 2: you have to donate five hundred dollars every time you 77 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: answer an email before it's been assigned to you, Like 78 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 2: that would be a high incentive not to do email 79 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: if it's costing me five hundred dollars a pop. Because 80 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I like it, but I don't like 81 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: it that much. So we need to have a think 82 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: about consequences for me misbehaving. So there's me confessing that 83 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: are my struggles with email you're up against that as well. 84 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: What lessons are you learning? What's your best current wid 85 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: and how to manage email? 86 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: I mean a really simple one. I also use Superhuman. 87 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: Is that I just don't open Superhuman. If Superhuman is 88 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 1: not open on my computer, it's kind of a hassle 89 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: to wait the five seconds for the software to reboot 90 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: and open itself and load all the emails. And that 91 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: is enough of a barrier to go. Do I really 92 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: need to be in my inbox? I think where I 93 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: come unstuck is when I need to find something in 94 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: my inbox or when I need to send something. Let's 95 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: just say I had a task to do that was 96 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: maybe a deep sprint in the morning that was put 97 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: together a proposal for a client, and then I want 98 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: closure on that task, which involves sending the email, and 99 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: to do that. I used to have a little plug 100 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: into Chrome when I was on the Google ecosystem, but 101 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: I haven't found an equivalent now that we're on the 102 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: Microsoft ecosystem and Superhuman does have a plug in you, 103 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: It's like it's all or nothing. You open your inbox 104 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: or you keep it closed. Whereas there used to be 105 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: this great Chrome plug in. I can't remember what it 106 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: was called, which is not very helpful. But you hit 107 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: a button, it would open a compose email window and 108 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: then you could send the window without getting into your 109 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: inbox and that saved me a lot of inbox time. 110 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: So that's where I come unstuck. Where the deep work 111 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: thing that I'm working on or need to finish, I 112 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: need to open up Superhuman and that's a problem that 113 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: I need to solve for right now. 114 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: I mean, the challenges is like more efficient for me 115 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: makes less efficient for somebody else. Like I could draft 116 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of things in Google say or something 117 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: like that, and go Ake Claudine, I've drafted the emails, 118 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: can you now paste them into the email and send 119 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: them on my behalf? And that would save me from 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: getting into inbox stuff, but would also mean Claudina is 121 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: now doing stuff which just doesn't feel particularly rewarding for her. 122 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: Oh great, I get to cut and paste Michael's emails 123 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: into an email thing. So anyway, I'll be delighted to 124 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: see what she comes up with in terms of trying 125 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: to save me from myself. 126 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: That's interesting. I feel like that's maybe a hack that 127 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: I can try because Jem and I will typically communicate 128 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: on Microsoft teams Chat, and I'm not addicted to that 129 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: at all. I could go for days without checking that. 130 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: I have to remind myself to be in teams Chat. 131 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: But also it's a good way to not be in 132 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: my inbox but communicate with Jem. And so maybe that's 133 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: the thing. Maybe I just I pace the email there 134 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: because for Jem it would take her two minutes out 135 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: of her day. And I might try that. I might 136 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: try that clauding. 137 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: And I do. There's a bunch of emails that I 138 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: have not yet figured out how to access, and I'm 139 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: trying not to hack that system. So when we have 140 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: our meetings, we meet for an hour start an end 141 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: of the week. She'll walk me through a bunch of 142 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: inquiries or emails that have come in for me, and 143 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: I'll go respond like this, and she'll make some notes 144 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: and then she'll send those emails off and I don't 145 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: get to see them. That works really well. So maybe 146 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: there is a precedent which is like, actually, I'll just 147 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: give you notes and you can compose the email on 148 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: my behalf. 149 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this little quick win with Michael. 150 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: If you would like to listen to my full interview 151 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: with him. You can find a link to that in 152 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: the show notes. If you like today's show, make sure 153 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: you get follow on your podcast app to be alerted 154 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: when new episodes drop. How I Work was recorded on 155 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the 156 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: Cooler Nation.