1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: How is Life for Children in the Digital Age? A 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: brand new report published in the last two weeks by 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: the OECD. I don't even know what it stands for, 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: the Organization for Economic and Cooperative Development or something like that. Ah, 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: we see they have publish this big report all about 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: what is going on with our kids and screens. You 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: already know before we start the pod that's going to 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: be bad. But how bad The stats are going to 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: blow your mind. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: We are justin and Kylie Colson. Kylie, you've got the 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: stats in front of you. Hit me with them. These 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: are I don't want to be one of those oh 14 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: my goodness, the sky is falling kind of people When 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: I look at these. 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: They don't want to be a Henny Penny correct. 17 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: But I feel like if you're a parent child has 18 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: a screen in the hand, you just need to know 19 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: that this is going on. 20 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: Statistic number one, Australian teenagers are spending fourteen nine hours 21 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: per week on screen. That's including school work. 22 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's seven hours a day that they're staring 23 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: at a screen. Once you take sleep out as well, 24 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: Let's say ten hours, seventeen hours of the day is 25 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: gone for sleep, You've got travel, a what sort of stuff? 26 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: There's not a lot left for life. Seven hours per day, 27 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: but that's on average. What was the sort of higher end. 28 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 2: Twelve percent are spending over eighty hours per week. That's 29 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: more than a full time job. 30 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Well, it's double at full time jobs forty hours a week. 31 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: So more than one in ten twelve percent eighty hours 32 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: a week on a screen. You do the maths, it's 33 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: more than ten hours per day. In fact, hang on maths, 34 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: it's more than eleven hours per day. More than eleven 35 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: hours per day on a screen. Twelve percent of kids. 36 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: There there's also some stats around how many kids at 37 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: a young age owned smartphones. 38 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: This is blowing my mind. Seventy percent of ten year 39 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: old already have their own smartphone. 40 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the OECD uses the word own. Let's be 41 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: really clear, no ten year old owns a smartphone, and 42 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: if they do, I don't want. I don't want a 43 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: parent shame. But kids shouldn't be owing smartphones, especially at 44 00:01:58,640 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: the age of ten. 45 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: I'm actually speechless because we talk about screens and the 46 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: challenges that we're experiencing on a weekly basis on the podcast. 47 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: So this is not unknown. 48 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: So maybe only thirty percent of Austraian parents listen to 49 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: what we're saying. I don't know of ten year olds 50 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: are already on a smartphone. There are two other important 51 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: stats that we've pulled out of here that we think 52 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: just need highlighting, flashing lights. 53 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: Nearly one in five teens spends more time gaming than studying. 54 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: At school yep, okay. 55 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: And the last one is sixty percent of Australian girls 56 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: report severe distress from cyberbullying. 57 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: So just just pause on that. That needs a moment 58 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: to breathe. Sixty percent, nearly two Australian girls. They're not 59 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: just reporting cyber bullying, they're reporting quote unquote severe distress, 60 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: severe distress. 61 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: And we're amongst the highest globally. 62 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the only people who beat us are 63 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: I think we're number two. I think we're number two, 64 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: with the US being just in front of us. And 65 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: this is not one of those lists that you want 66 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: to be on the top of. So following on from 67 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: yesterday's discussion with Scott Novis, the former Disney vice president, 68 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: where we previewed Saturday's major interview about kids in gaming. 69 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: I just want to reinforce a couple of things that 70 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: he said and that we touched on yesterday or that 71 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: will be touched on on Saturday. And I was through 72 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: this really quickly because we need to know it, but 73 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: we don't need to dwell on it because we talk 74 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: about it all the time. Number One, games and social 75 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: media are engineered with dopemine release triggers and unpredictable rewards. 76 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: You get that variable ratio reward to sustain engagement and 77 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: get you and your kids hooked. That's literally what they're 78 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: trying to do. They're maximizing engagement, maximizing addiction, wanting to 79 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: make our children, who are the most vulnerable, drawn in 80 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: for prolonged use. We know from the OECD data ten 81 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: percent of teens are reporting problematic social media use. That's 82 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: up from seven percent five years ago. It's a three 83 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: percent increase, not massive, but at a problematic level. Ten percent. 84 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: Seventeen percent of fifteen year olds feel anxious when they're 85 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: without their devices. I think that that's an underestimate. I 86 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: know that when I talk to adults, pretty much seventy 87 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: percent of adults feel quite anxious without their devices. I 88 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: know it happens to me from time to time. I 89 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: love it and then I hate it. And boys are, 90 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: consistent with previous year's research, much more prone to gaming 91 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: disorders and girls to social media addiction. 92 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 2: In some ways, I'm really blown away that we're still 93 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 2: having to have this conversation. But the reality is screen 94 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: usage is having such a massive negative impact on our kids' lives. 95 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'll go through the things that we talk 96 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: about all the time. You can add any that you 97 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: think that I've missed. We usually talk about excessive use 98 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: being linked to depression, anxiety, loneliness, academic struggles, sleep deprivation, 99 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: lack of exercise, physical activity, that kind of stuff. Then 100 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: there's the content issues what your children are actually being 101 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: exposed to, which I think are probably the biggest things. 102 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: They're the ones that jump out at me immediately because 103 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: we talk about them all the time. 104 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: Pornography, violence, and sextortion. 105 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, yeah, I mean we had Julian mcgrant talking 106 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: about sextortion not long ago, and Tinag boys being being 107 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: taken for an absolute ride and sometimes losing their lives 108 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: because of this stuff. We know that our Australian kids 109 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: are among the most distressed because of online harassment. There's 110 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: genuine damage and that's stuff that's happening to our kids 111 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: based on what's happening online. I think there's one more 112 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: thing that we really need to highlight here as a 113 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: genuine concern, a big problem that comes from this, and 114 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: it's that family relationships blow up, like there's so many 115 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: wars in bedroom doorways and in living rooms where parents 116 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: are walking in and saying, get off your screen. I've 117 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: had enough of this, We're done. There's a guy called 118 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: Marshall Rosenberg. I've got his book, in fact, i'm touching 119 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: it right now, right above my head on my bookshelf. 120 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: It's called Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. He died 121 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: a few years ago. 122 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: But. 123 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: He's pretty what's the word for it, It's pretty dry, 124 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: not the most inspiring guy to listen to or read, 125 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: but his models and his ideas are just brilliant. And 126 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: what we're describing here, this family conflict, he would call 127 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: that violent communication. He's got a model of how we 128 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: can communicate non violently around challenging things. We might do 129 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: a podcast episode about it sometime in the next couple 130 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: of weeks. It's really really good stuff. So after the break, 131 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: I want to share a couple of things. First off, 132 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: four uncomfortable truths about what the OECD have discovered about 133 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: children and their screen use. And then just a handful 134 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: of directives, a handful of really simple things that you 135 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: can do based on your child's age to protect them 136 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: from the disaster that the screen world invites into their lives. Okay, 137 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: so four things, four uncomfortable truths that this OECD report 138 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: has life for children in the digital age brings up 139 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: for me that I think every parent needs to know. 140 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: There's a lot here. I want to go through it quickly, Kylie. 141 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: I haven't really broken this down for you, but I've 142 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: given you the four headlines, so you walk me through 143 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: it and I'll add the color and flavor that needs 144 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: to be there. 145 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: So your child's real world problems predict their digital problems. 146 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: Here, So basically, if your child is having real world problems, 147 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: they're likely to have digital problems, and there's going to 148 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: be a correlation between the two. So what you often 149 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: find is that if your child is not doing well 150 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: in the real world around physical activity or relationships, or 151 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: if things about in the family. Guess what, They're at 152 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: greater risk of digital addiction, right because they turn to 153 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: the screens because they're not doing well. The OECD found 154 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: that kids with behavioral issues, kids with low levels of 155 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: resilience and psychological well being are the most vulnerable. They 156 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: found that this number grabbed me. Nearly half of all 157 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: teens forty six percent of teens are using social media 158 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: to get away from the negative feelings, so they're not 159 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: addicted to screens as much as they're just saying I 160 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: don't like my reality, and the screen gives me the escape. 161 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: It supports my basic psychological needs in ways that the 162 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: analog world can't. 163 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: But the crazy thing is they get online and then 164 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: they find themselves spiraling in this world of competition and comparison, 165 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: and they can never meet up to the standards that 166 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: they're seeing. 167 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: The belief that the perfectible life is out there and 168 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: it's devastating. And the more time they spend online, the 169 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: more everything else deteriorates as well. 170 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: Number two, most parents are fighting the wrong war. 171 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Ye, So I want to speak directly to parents who 172 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: are trying to have these violent conversations, and I use 173 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: the word violence really, really intentionally here. I'm not suggesting 174 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: that parents are quote unquote violent physically, but when we 175 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: say things like that's it, I've had enough, You've got 176 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: five minutes to go, and then I'm switching it off, 177 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: there's a threat, okay, and the threat to a child 178 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: can feel it's a really triggering word, but it can 179 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: feel violent to them. I'm going back to the Marshall 180 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: Rosenberg thing. How can we communicate in a non violent way. 181 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: When we're imposing time limits in a punitive way, we're 182 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: fighting the wrong war. I think what works better than 183 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: time restrictions is making sure that we're talking about content. 184 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: Time restrictions matter too, but content is the bigger issue 185 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: for me. Children who come from neglectful or authoritarian home 186 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: show much higher rates of gaming disorder and other challenges online. 187 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: So again, this is a parenting issue. Either the parents 188 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: don't care, that's the neglectful side, or they're pushing too hard. 189 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: Force creates resistance. That's where we see the really big problems. Essentially, 190 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: your parenting style matters more than all the filters and 191 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: all the controls that you can put on it. Autonomy support. 192 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: Autonomy support is what we talk about in this pot 193 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: all the time, non violent communication problem, solving for discipline 194 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: rather than punishment for discipline, helping kids to get there. 195 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: That's the second, really really uncomfortable truth. Parenting is a 196 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: big part of this problem. 197 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: So you've been using this big word you've been talking about, 198 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 2: the by directional trap. 199 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: I can't help it. 200 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: It sounds so academic. 201 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: Academic me. I'm a scientist, I'm a researcher. What do 202 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: you want me to do? 203 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 2: You just break it down for the average mum and dad. 204 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: Really simple. Poor mental health leads to problematic digital use. 205 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: Problematic digital use worsens mental health. Bi directional me. It 206 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: goes both ways. Okay, so if you've got one problem, 207 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,719 Speaker 1: that facilitates and builds the other problem. But once you've 208 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: got that other problem, it also builds the initial problem 209 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: that you had. It's kind of like parential control and anxiety. Like, 210 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: as a parent, when you start to get really really 211 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: anxious about your child, you become more controlling. And the 212 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: more controlling you are, the more you feel anxious when 213 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: your child's doing anything that is concerning for you, and 214 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: so you get more controlling. It's like this never ending 215 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: spiral or this loop that keeps on going. Fundamentally, kids 216 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: being on devices, especially around social media, is going to 217 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: give you this temporary relief and let's say loneliness, but 218 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: it's going to increase negative emotions the next day. The 219 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: data actually shows this. There's this temporal delay so that 220 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: what you're doing today impacts how you're feeling tomorrow. And 221 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: when kids have a really big day like eleven hours 222 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: on social media, scrolling just doom, scrolling right and trying 223 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: to imagine how their life can be as good as 224 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: everyone else's because it's clearly on the screen everyone else 225 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: is having the best time ever. Oh my goodness, it's 226 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: so hard. And what the OEC report also showed in 227 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: this bi directional trap essentially is that kids turn to 228 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: online spaces when they're family and their other analog relationships 229 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: are failing them like real world relationships not working. Go online, 230 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: but those relationships are hollow, hollow imitations of what a 231 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: real relationship needs to be. For the most part, now 232 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: are their support of communities, communities that can make a 233 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: difference and help you. Of course there are, but that's 234 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: really what we're what we're dealing with. 235 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: And number four, the parent hypocrisy problem. 236 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: I'm just going to call it parents own modeling. Parents 237 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: own device usage interferes with parenting, makes parents distracted, and 238 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: it creates more conflict, and the kids don't want to 239 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: listen to you because you're getting it wrong. 240 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 2: So I just think what we're you're not talking about 241 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: parents owning it. You're talking about their specific interactions with 242 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: their screens. 243 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: Correct. Absolutely, And the OECD report I'm not saying it. 244 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: The OECD report is showing it. The kids are saying, 245 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: my parents are on the device all the time. It 246 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: creates conflict between us. But also they're telling me to 247 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: get off, but they don't get it off, like what's 248 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: their screen time like? And this is part of the problem. 249 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: We're modeling it, we're normalizing it. Now kids are saying, well, 250 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: if you can do it, I can do it too. 251 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem fair, It doesn't make sense. 252 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 2: So if we find ourselves in this rat race of 253 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: struggling to communicate in nonviolent ways with our kids when 254 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: it comes to screens, how can we help parents or 255 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: navigate this space? 256 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: Like I said, I think that we need to have 257 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: a conversation about nonviolent communication on the pod In a 258 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: couple of weeks time, when we've got some space in 259 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: there for it. It's really really great stuff. And now 260 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: that I've touched, now that I've put my hand on 261 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: the book, it's kind of making me want to pull 262 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: it down and read it and go to all of 263 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: my highlighted bits and pieces. So we will do that. 264 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: I think it'll be a great podcast episode. In the meantime, 265 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: what I really want to emphasize is just a couple 266 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: of really simple things for each age group. So if 267 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: you kids are under about the age of I'm going 268 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: to say seven or eight, first of all, either be 269 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: present during screen time or don't allow it. Co engage 270 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: or cut it off. Now that sounds really, really harsh. 271 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: I know that every now and again you want to 272 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: be able to do a poo without the kids coming 273 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: into the toil. I'm sorry for being grows, but sometimes 274 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: you just want to go to the toilet in peace. 275 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: So I get that I'm not hardcore on this, but 276 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: to the extent that you can be present during screen 277 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: time or don't allow it. Second thing I would say 278 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: about cocooning these early years up to about the age 279 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: of eight is bedrooms are sacred. No devices in bedrooms, 280 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: and you've got to model that as much as the kids. 281 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: And there is a third thing that I quickly want 282 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,239 Speaker 1: to add, and that is you want to minimize the 283 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: time that they're spending on games and things that basically 284 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: turn devices into gambling. For kids, this is where the 285 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: compelling compulsive use comes in, and this is where they 286 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: start to get hooked at the earliest ages. We need 287 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: to keep them away from that as long as possible. 288 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: I just think the best thing for kids, if you're 289 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: going to stick them in front of a screen is 290 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: ABC Kids, let them watch them Bluie. That works for 291 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: me best. 292 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: I've got bumbworms. I recently just saw a small reel 293 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: of a podcast that Jonathan Hate did, and he was 294 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: talking specifically about the fact that watching a movie with 295 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: your child is better than all of these short little 296 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 2: reels and things like that more times than not. 297 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: Because you're not getting that instant dope hit that keeps 298 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: you addicted. 299 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 2: Right Yeah. Well, and you've got characters in there who 300 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 2: you know, kind of grow and they've got morals and standards. 301 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: You develop empathy, it teaches values, yeah, absolutely. 302 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 2: And often you'll watch a movie together, so you've got that, 303 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,479 Speaker 2: You've got that you know, kind of physical connection. 304 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: And a movie has an endpoint it does, whereas the 305 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: YouTube algorithm will just keep on feeding your material for eternity. 306 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: Let's talk about middle childhood. Just three quick things that 307 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: I want to hit here. First of all, your cocuning 308 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: when kids are younger. As the kids get older, you're 309 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: now starting to pre arm, but you're building fortresses for them. 310 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: So I'm not huge on family media plans. I don't 311 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: think they work particularly well for older kids. But for 312 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: younger kids, and I'm talking like eight to twelve year olds, 313 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: this is actually an opportunity where you still have a 314 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: fairly high level of cooperative control. That is, you can 315 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: work things out together, but as the parent, you do 316 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: get to step in and say, I'm in charge and 317 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: we've agreed on this, so we're going to make sure 318 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: it happens like You can really do this with younger kids, 319 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: So work out what works for us, what doesn't, and 320 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: stick to it, including parents. Second thing, I've emphasized this already, 321 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: but briefly, monitor what they see. Focus on that probably 322 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: more than how long they're watching it. How long they're 323 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: watching it matters as well, So it doesn't just place 324 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: things that matter, but the content, the content is such 325 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: a thing here and I just reckon at this age, 326 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: they're starting to develop independence, invest in the offline world, 327 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: physical activities, friendships, getting outside nature is feel for the soul. 328 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: All this sort of stuff is armor against digital harm. 329 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: What about our teenagers just three things. We're moving into 330 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: autonomy support. This is where we really have to pick 331 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: our battles and we literally say, okay, what do we 332 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: need to work on. Just remember the stricter you are, 333 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: like rules with that relationship lead to rebellion. It's about 334 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: autonomy support, get the relationship right, problem solved together. That's 335 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: where you really want to go. If there are any 336 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: real world problems addressed, those like the family stress, that's 337 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: just going to exacerbate the conflict over screens. So if 338 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: there are any mental health issues, if there's any social struggles, 339 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: you really want to work on that. And I keep 340 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: on coming back to this. As parents, we have got 341 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: to model things ruthlessly. We've got to be good examples 342 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: ourselves or we cannot. We simply cannot ask our children 343 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: to be ruthless with their own screen usage. You can't 344 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: lift someone up if you're underneath them. You've got to 345 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: stand on high ground. 346 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: And go camping. 347 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: Yes, just go geeah you and get off the grid. 348 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: It's so good for you. All right. That is the 349 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: OECD report. I know most people aren't going to read it. 350 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: We will link to it in the show notes. It's 351 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty pages of single space print. Like, 352 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: there's so much there, but if you're interested in it, 353 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: it's called How's Life for Children in the Digital Age? 354 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: I actually recommend it. I reckon there's some really good 355 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: content there that we do as parents want to be across. 356 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: Bottom line. Let's wrap this up. Bottom line, and the 357 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: responsibility for what's going on in your kids digital lives 358 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: fundamentally at rests with you. It shouldn't, but it does. 359 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: We've got to wait for the tech companies to stop 360 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: exploiting our kids. I hate to say, it never gonna happen. 361 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: We need to wait for our politicians to provide the 362 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: legislation that we need to protect our kids. It's never 363 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: going to happen. I'm just I'm skeptical because if they do, 364 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: the tech companies will well get exploitative and find other 365 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: ways to get them out of office. I just I 366 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: just don't believe that it's going to happen. So strong 367 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: offline foundations your best defense. That's what we need to build. 368 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: Hope you've loved the pod a little bit longer than normal. 369 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: Such an important topic and so many families are struggling 370 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: with it, which is why we've spent the time on it. 371 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin rule On 372 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: from Bridge Media. For more info and more resources about 373 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: this conversation, got a couple of great webinars in the 374 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: Happy Families shop. Go to Happy families dot com dot 375 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: a U, or pick up a copy of my book, 376 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: The Parenting Revolution, because that's what we really need to 377 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: get this right.