1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbach. I'm an 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date. This 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: episode is another my favorite tip episode. The title is 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: probably pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: each of the interviews I conduct. So I use this 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: format because sometimes I feel myself as a podcast listener, 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: I just want to get in, get the most amount 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: of value, and then get out. So my guest today 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: is Nigel Marsh. Nigel is the host of the internationally 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: acclaimed podcast Five of My Life, the author of three 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: books Fat forty and Fired, Overworked and Underlaid and fifty 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: and Fired Up. And he's also the co founder of 16 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: earth Hour and the founder of Sidney Skinney. His ted 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: speech on work life Balance remains the most viewed one 18 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: ever given outside of America, with well over four million hits. 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: And outside of all that, Nigel spent many years in 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: some very senior corporate roles, and that is actually how 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: I know Nigel. He was my CEO at advertising agency 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: Leo Burnette, which was my last role before I started 23 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: Inventium twelve years ago. So in this extract we hear 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: about Nigel's approach to replying to emails, which completely blew 25 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: my mind and definitely changed my own behavior. 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 2: So I have chosen one form of electronic communication to 27 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: be on top of, and that's my email. So you 28 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: mentioned the thirty thousand emails I have replied to. Every 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: single one. Is if you send me an email, I 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: read it, I respond, job done. If you look look 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: at me, I've been in this for an hour, so 32 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: I've probably got twenty emails. But trust me, tonight, when 33 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: I go to bed, I'll have no emails. So if 34 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: you're in Nigel Marsha's email stream, it is ferociously efficient. 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: It just is. 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 2: I am Olympic champion at the emails. If you send 37 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 2: me a Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, whatever they are, and 38 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: I have to be on all these rubbishy things. They're 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 2: not rubbishly, they're lovely, all these things because my publisher 40 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: and podcaster and never else want me to be because 41 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: I you know, I do it. A few things I 42 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: will never read it. I might read it eighteen months late, 43 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 2: and not more important than that. I won't worry about it. 44 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: That makes sense. I'm not go oh gosh, I might 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: have LinkedIn middled I might see it by coincidence. It's 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: entirely random. I might be having to post about my 47 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: latest podcast, and when I do that, I then have 48 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: to see whatever the ones above the one that you know, 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: so you will completely randomly get a response. But in 50 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: my life, and you know, we have to be selective. 51 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: We're over entertained, we're over educated, we're over informed. You 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: have to. We don't have to. I do. Don't do 53 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: what I do, don't do what I say to do 54 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 2: whatever you want, right, But it is I have made 55 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 2: the choice. I'm going to be selective. My head is 56 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: too small, my brain is too full to be across 57 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: all those different medium So the one thing I can say, 58 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: and I say this in speeches, I reply to all 59 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: my emails. If anyone here has emailed me and they 60 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: have to reply, stand up now and call me out 61 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: as a as a liar, because I know no one 62 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: can because I rely do them. But if you want 63 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: to get hold of me and you facebook me, you're 64 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: an idiot because I'm just not going to I've just 65 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: chosen not to care, just like I don't, you know, 66 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: I don't sit in the path across the road and 67 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: monitor the conversations that you know, there are lots of 68 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: conversations I'm very happy not to be in. 69 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: Do mean, wow, so you respond to every even that 70 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: blows my mind. 71 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: Why it's just courtesy, isn't it. 72 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: I do know, like someone someone gave me the advice 73 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: at once that if someone hasn't been thoughtful enough with 74 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: their email to you, because like I imagine, we're both 75 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: giving people email as go, oh, can I just have 76 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: a coffee? Pick your brain over coffee? Right, typical request, 77 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: and if they haven't, like firstly, if it's auto corrected 78 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: to Amanda not Amantha that frequently happens, they will get 79 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: no reply. But equally, if they just haven't done their homework, 80 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: or if it's a generic request, I kind of go, 81 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: You've put so little time into this request. I'm going 82 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: to put zero time into responding. 83 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: I am going to blow your mind by being a contrarian. 84 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: One of the things that really really hacks me off 85 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: is people not responding to emails because they I don't 86 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 2: know if it's not Australian. You tell me I don't 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: see Australian thing or just a business thing, because they 88 00:04:53,880 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: think that is a clear no. What I do is 89 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: I give the no. So here we go, right, So 90 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: this is just really so you need to rebuild me 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: as so what I will do? And you're right, I 92 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: get lots of requests to you know, it's hilarious do 93 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: things for free for other people I'm around. I have 94 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: an art to do your conference, Yes, I would like 95 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: to meet you, and I do actually do. I try 96 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: to be nice as that, but you get lots of 97 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: those things. Is if you've got you know, you're running inventum, 98 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 2: you've got things on your hands. So if someone says, 99 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 2: you know, great news, I'm doing a dissertation at UNI, 100 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 2: I'd like five hours of your time. And it's like 101 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: a ludicrously naive it's quite rude in a way. You 102 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: like I say, Amantha, could you wash my car? Is 103 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 2: it is actually a little bit dirty? Could you this 104 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 2: afternoon just nip over to Bronzo watch my car? And well, 105 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: what a ludicrous request. But what I think my moral 106 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: behavior manners bar has been set where I will give 107 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: you the no. I think the silence is insulting and 108 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: people are fucking cowards where you should say and it 109 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: toughens you up. So I got asked, I mean that 110 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: has to be on three podcasts recently, and I've said 111 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 2: no to all of them, right, because I don't. I 112 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: don't do this. I don't. I mean, I'd loved this conversation, 113 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: but I don't know why would I. I mean, do 114 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: it because I like you, so I think you know, 115 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, let's make the name up Olie. 116 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: You know, ask me to be honest podcast because a podcast? 117 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: And you go, well, I don't want to be Why 118 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: would I want to have to spend an hour? I 119 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: could be doing a speech in earning fifteen grand and 120 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: you know, I know what it would help you, but 121 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: why would it help me? And you know wash my car? 122 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: So you go, so what I could do? Alah, Amantha, 123 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: it's just not bloody reply? You are rude cow right, 124 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: So what I do is I right back and say no, 125 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 2: thank you? 126 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: How do you do that? In like, do you have 127 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: a go to lot? I don't know if that's a 128 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: stupid question, but do you have a go to? This 129 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: is in aspiring advice. 130 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: We're getting to the advice put your manners back in. 131 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: So what you do this take notes is so our egos. 132 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: I'd like, you know, blah blah blah. I love you 133 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 2: to you, I'll follow your work, you know, whether they 134 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: say to you, you know, loving benji uh and and 135 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 2: you know, would love you to be on my podcast. 136 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: By the way, could you read this one hundred page 137 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: you could? You do? Are You're available tomorrow at two anyway? 138 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 2: And so I try to like with the you know, 139 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: all the emails is honor them even noticing that I 140 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: exist on the planet. So you go, you know, thank 141 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: you for your email, Tiffany. You know, I'm thrilled that 142 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: you enjoyed you know, the book called the podcast order whatever, 143 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: and it's all authentic. So, you know, thank you for 144 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 2: your email. And I am pleased that you like the 145 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: book or that whatever made you want to I'll pass 146 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: on this occasion very best wishes with you know your 147 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: podcast conference that Nader warm regards Nigel. Now what can 148 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: they then say if they then call back and say, listen, 149 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: you fuck with I wanted you for free to give 150 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: me three hours of your highly valuable time to do 151 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: something just for me. I would be perfect if I'd 152 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: say why, I mean, because why why would I do that? 153 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: But no one ever does because you've asked me. But 154 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 2: people feel I get it. I'm British, I'm repressed. I've 155 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: got all these problems. It is. I'll do anything to 156 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: avoid the authentic, elegant, firm no, and I'm here to 157 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: save your soul. Lamanther, you need to start being ruder 158 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: and to all those people who ask you politely, so 159 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: that because you guess what happens. In some cases it 160 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 2: might just be five percent, but if you had thirty 161 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: thousand emails, that actually adds up to quite a lot. 162 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: You've established a connection sold to soul. You've been nice, 163 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: you've been honest, and something then changes in his or 164 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: my life that means you end up. 165 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: You go. 166 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: Do you know what I wrote to you in twenty 167 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: eleven and asked you if you do X? And you 168 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 2: said no? And then here we are doing that a 169 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: little bit. It's wonderful where you know, so it doesn't 170 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: it's not rude. It's ruder to not reply. 171 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: Ignore it. Oh my goodness, this is I'm changed. Like 172 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: if anyone is listening to this interview right now, which 173 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: they are Nigel if they if you send me an email, 174 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to reply. I might slitely decline, but I'm 175 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: sorry going to reply. You've changed me. This is great, 176 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: This is great. Yeah, hello me again. I just loved 177 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: this tip from Nigel, and ever since doing this interview, 178 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: I have done a one to eighty with my email 179 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: behavior and I take the time to respond to every 180 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: single person that emails me. And guess what, it hasn't 181 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: actually taken that much extra time out of my day, 182 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: but it feels really good to acknowledge people who have 183 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: actually taken the time to write to me. So that's 184 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: it for today. If you like this exerp, you might 185 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: want to listen to my full chat with Nigel, which 186 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: I link to in the show notes. And if you're 187 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: enjoying How I Work, why not spread the love and 188 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: tell other people about this podcast. It's definitely How I 189 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: Work has grown so much in its time on this planet, 190 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 1: and I'm super appreciative for everyone that has been spreading 191 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: the word about how I Work. It means a lot. 192 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: So that is it for today and I'll see you 193 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: next time.