WEBVTT - 05 - The Twists 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.400 Once a high flying minister, now a broken man. It 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.200 was a significant error of judgment on my part, but 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:17.079 it was an honester. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.040 In two thousand and nine he was found guilty of 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:28.720 corruptly receiving secret commissions and jailed for seven years. In 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.519 twenty ten, he was found guilty on five charges of 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:37.640 official corruption and five charges of perjury and jailed for 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:39.880 an additional seven years. 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.720 This is my challenge to the government of the day. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.559 Do you bring an independent person up from Ministate, not 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:51.920 from Queensland, but someone from Ministate. My name is Gordon 0:00:51.960 --> 0:01:08.280 Nuttle and this is my story. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.960 The man behind the Rose Episode five. Hello, my name's 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:12.160 Patrick Condred. In this penultimate chapter, Gordon Nuttle says he'd 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:16.959 like to have his case investigated by an independent interstate jurist. 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.040 It's clearly a sensitive issue for the state government. A 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.959 spokesman for the Attorney General of It DAF said in 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.760 a statement the Attorney doesn't want to comment on this. 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:34.679 Gordon Nuttle's life has had some strange intersections. He first 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.360 ran for Parliament on the Sunshine Coast and twenty five 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.520 years later a land deal for the Sunshine Coast University 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.240 Hospital brought him undone when the corruption watchdog uncovered the 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.160 unrelated Talbot and Shanned payments, is. 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:54.680 There an allegation? I don't know what is the allegation. 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.920 I don't know who is being investigated. 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.120 I don't know the CMC finds adversely in relation to 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.000 Gordon and I will take whatever appropriate action is necessary. 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:09.960 He was Health Minister when wrote doctor Jay and Patel 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.760 worked at the Bunderberg Hospital. Now Nuttle is being treated 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.000 for stage four cancer at a hospital in Bunderberg. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.120 The letter you at table clearly shows that there are 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.440 difficulties and problems to that hospital. 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.560 A fact acknowledged by the Premier, who says he'll personally 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:31.320 visit patients and families left permanently scarred by their experience 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.160 with Queensland's doctor death. 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.560 Question is the baby now adjourned? Does that opinion say? I? 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.880 And it was in the Queensland Parliament where Nuttle first 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.799 spoke about Ken Talbot, not to praise but to criticize. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.440 And it was the Queensland Parliament where Gordon Nuttele became 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.320 the first criminal to appear to address MPs about taking 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:58.080 three hundred thousand dollars from Ken Talbot and not declaring it. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.720 I will shortly call mister Gordon Nuttle to appear in 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.200 person at the Bar of the House to address the 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:09.000 House in relation to the specific charges of contempt set 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.280 out in the Order dated seventh of April twenty eleven. 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.120 As a political editor covering the momentous event, it was 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:20.440 an extraordinary thing to witness the Sergeant at Arms, carrying 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.840 the massive gold mace, walked out of the chamber and 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:28.560 through the door of an adjoining room. Meanwhile, another attendant 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.480 carried a lecturn into place for Nuttle to use during 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:37.560 his address. Once the parliamentary stage was set, a grim 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.400 faced Sergeant at arms emerged from the office where Nuttle 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:42.120 had been held. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.200 Sergeant at Arms, please bring mister Nuttle to the Bar 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:46.720 of the House. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.960 It's a day no one who was there is likely 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.120 to ever forget a convicted criminal, one of their own, 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.400 fronting the Bar of Parliament to appeal to his former 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:02.320 colleagues not to find him eighty two thousand dollars in 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.320 relation to contempt charges arising from his dealings with Ken 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:11.280 Talbot and Harold Sheen. We are one of Richard Nuddle's 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.600 labor MP John mckel was the Speaker of Parliament at 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:18.039 the time. 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.640 The charges are that, on forty one occasions you failed 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.280 to declare matters on your Register of interests that you 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:29.760 were required to declare. Mister Nuttle, do you agree to 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:34.560 waive my reading of each of the charges? Has stated 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.400 in my letter to you, dated the eleventh of April 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.919 twenty eleven, which is hand delivered to you on the 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:45.080 fifteenth of April twenty eleven. You are acquired in your 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:49.880 address to observe strict and direct relevance to the contempt 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:55.000 charges and the recommended penalty. Mister Nuttle, if your address 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.840 becomes irrelevant, I will be compelled to take appropriate action. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.800 Your appearance before the bar of the House does not 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:08.080 carry with it a right to ask any question. There 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.840 is no right for you to table documents without the 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.400 leave of the House, and you should not assume such. 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:15.200 Leave will be granted. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.719 You must direct your address to the House only through me, 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:24.159 as the Speaker. Mister Nuttle, I expect that you will 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.880 respect the courtesy shown you today by giving you this 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.520 opportunity to address the House, and in return respect the 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:36.760 dignity of this house. The House has resolved that the 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.720 time for your address shall not exceed forty five minutes. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.479 Mister Nuttle, you may now proceed with your address. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:50.120 While Speaker Mackel outlined the rules for this extraordinary proceeding, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.560 a gaunt Nuttle shuffled his speech notes and looked around 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:59.240 the room where he was once a senior lawmaker. None 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:03.680 would meet his eye. His suit hung loosely on his frame. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.200 There was no red rose in malapel. 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:12.599 Mister Speaker, honorable Members and the people of Queensland. I 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:17.600 have considered long and hard how today's events my unfold. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.520 I remember it very clearly. It was history, but it's 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:23.080 not history. 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.280 I wanted to make history in what way? 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:31.760 Well, he was the first convicted MP who had chosen 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:36.240 to rather appear before the Bar of Parliament, and so 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:41.560 there was a lot to that occasion in terms of. 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.680 When you think of criminals, you think, oh, it's somebody 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:47.239 out there. 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.840 But this was somebody whom most of the members that 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.120 either had a coffee with an interaction with may be 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:56.080 seen at lunch. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.839 So it was somebody who was known to. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.560 Somebody who'd arrived in a paddy wagon, somebody who had 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:12.800 to be escorted by the Queensland Custodial Service and then 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:14.800 given over to the Sergeant at arms. 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:16.800 There was a. 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.120 Massive human dimension to it, as I recall in that 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.440 his family had requested of me that they'd be allowed 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:30.960 to meet with him, a request that I granted. There 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:36.480 was understandably not just statewide media focus, as I recall, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:38.600 it was national media focus on it. 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.320 I feel as though perhaps I might have the same 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.920 result as the Christians in the days of the Roman 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:50.120 Empire when they fed to the lions in the Colisseum. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.040 I hope that is not the case today. 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.560 There's Nuttle paused. You could hear a pin drop in 0:07:55.640 --> 0:08:00.720 the Parliament. The normal verbal rgi bargie MPs normally could 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:05.200 be heard shouting at opponents across the chamber had fallen silent. 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.240 If we have a look at the sentence that I 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.560 have been given, it is greater than anyone. I have 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.080 served more time in jail than anyone in the Watergate 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:20.800 scandal ol Capone and he got eleven years. I've got 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.920 a greater sentence than that. I stand here today and 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.360 ask and employ you, in the interest of justice, to 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:32.559 hold an independent judicial inquiry into the conduct and behavior 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:33.600 of both the CMC. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:38.400 Mister Nuttle, I've asked you already to get back to 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:39.439 the charges. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.280 Well, as I said, mister Speaker, I'm endeavoring to do 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:43.000 that or. 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.040 To the penalty. I would ask you to a vide 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.280 by my ruling. I know this is emotional for you, 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.360 it's emotional for all of us. There are forty one 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:56.400 charges of contempt and there is a penalty. I am 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.520 not trying to intrude onto your address today that you 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.880 would understand from your experience here that there are other 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.480 avenues open to you to well to prosecute an issue 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:08.079 against the c. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.960 Well, mister Speaker, Honorable Members, the question I suppose I 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.200 have is how did it all come to this? Trials 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:24.560 convictions at any costs, parliamentary reports, today's appearance at the bar, 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:31.520 the tarnishing of reputations. If the House chooses not to 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:37.920 accept my defense, then to accept my sincere, my sincere 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.800 and unqualified apology to the House for the non disclosure 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.280 of all matters raised in the reports one five and 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:50.600 one one four by the Integrity, Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges Committee, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.199 and that this unqualified apology be accepted by the House 0:09:54.880 --> 0:10:00.720 as a suitable penalty. Mister Speaker, I simply do not 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.840 have the financial capacity to pay a fine. I've indicated 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.040 to the House what has happened in terms of my assets, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.560 and I simply am not in a position, in any way, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.480 shape or form to be able to pay such a fine. 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.880 So I do ask the House to consider. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:22.720 What I have just said. 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:28.440 Speak of honorable members. I'll conclude by thanking you for 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.080 having the courage to hear me today and for listening 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.280 to what I've had to say. Some members of this Parliament, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:38.840 and in particular some who were once my close friends 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:45.040 and colleagues, have chosen to judge me from afar. When 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.720 I needed you most, you chose to desert me. Not 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:53.320 one phone call, not one visit, not one voice of support. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.400 In the movie Break a Moriunt, prior to his execution, 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.440 Mornt left his colleagues this message. And a man's enemies 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.480 will be those of his own household. Mister speaker, how 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.880 sad but true. Some of you have chosen to publicly 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.280 condemn me, and some have even sought to use my 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:20.160 downfall to their advantage. In politics, most of us experience 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.480 highs and layers, and as members of our respective political 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:29.440 parties or even as independent members, we share those times together. 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.560 There's a popular old song from a band called the Hollies, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:41.000 with lyrics which talk about the long and winding road 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.680 and of just being there to support one another in 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:49.120 times of need. I have reflected on this song because 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.320 I've always believed that, as part of the labor family, 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.920 when the difficult times arose, the bonds of our beliefs 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:00.560 and values would bring us together. Sadly, though, when the 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.520 storm clouds loomed all around me and I looked for 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:09.000 your help and support, there was no one there. Instead, 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.880 you chose to cast me adrift and join in the 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:16.840 feeding frenzy when there was blood in the water. In 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.640 living my life, I have made many mistakes along the way, 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.480 but I have never knowingly or wrongfully set out to 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.760 do wrong. And it grieves me greatly to think that 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.000 there are those who have a different view. Many of 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.080 you here to day know me well. You know the 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.880 type of person I am, the values I have tried 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:45.240 to live by such vailues as justice, mercy, and compassion, 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.160 and to always treat others as you yourself would wish 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:55.000 to be treated. This has been my creed in life. 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.199 The attacks on me have been so vicious and vindictive, 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.600 and I too have lashed out today all of us 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:10.400 have the opportunity to cease and to forgive. To my 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.560 family who are here and to those of my family 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.920 who cannot be here, thank you for your love and support. 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.800 I also thank my true friends for their loyalty and 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.280 their belief in me. I am bowed, but I am 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.120 not beaten. I am bloodied, but I am not broken. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.280 I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.760 and I have kept the faith. May God bless you 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:46.560 all and keep you all safe from harm. 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.079 Thank you, Miss Nettle. You are now discharged from the 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.560 order of the House. Sergeant at Arms, please escort mister 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.600 Nuddle from the chamber and deliver him to the custody 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.000 of the Corrective Services officers. It was hard because you 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.840 wanted to give the God a chance, but I also 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.560 had to keep well, I know, as speaker on other things. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:11.200 The moment you give a bit of leniency, well you gave, 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:16.120 and so it's far better to just stick to the 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:16.959 topic at hand. 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.320 That's what he was there for. Use your forty five. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.200 Minutes for that, and then we're all up and away. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.920 And there were concerns from your own party, the Labor 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:32.320 Party MPs, that he might stray and enter into an 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.600 area of defamation possibly or start to spill some of 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:37.479 their secrets. 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.800 Yes, well, I don't know what they'll possibly worried about. 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.480 I know what I was going to enforce, and I 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.680 was going to enforce the fact that he was there 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.240 to answer two charges the moment the second he straight 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.400 away from that, I was going to pull that up, 0:14:55.640 --> 0:15:00.320 not to defend them, because don't forget this, the other 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.560 members of Parliament who could get up and in fact, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.480 I think one did get up on many occasions to 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:10.200 allege all manner of things, and if there is that 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.600 element of corruption, there's an entire independent royal commission there 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.920 that mister Nuttle could have referred any matter of things to. 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.920 So for me it was quite plain what was going 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.520 to happen. He was going to answer those two things, 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.120 and that's why he was pulled into line with that. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:32.120 But I will say I was quite gentle with it, 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:37.000 because you get I overcome with the emotion of it. 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:42.520 I mean, here is somebody who has been one of everything. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.280 If you were there that day, there was a certain 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:52.400 poignancy in the house. It was gut wrenching for everyone 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:59.040 that here is one of your own and gut wrenching, 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.200 and that in a sense of almost g I really 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.360 don't want to be here, and people looking down was 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:12.680 my recollection of boy, this, give me somewhere else. I 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.000 didn't get elected to do this. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.560 And having spoken to him about this, or about the 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.760 time that he addressed the parliament, that's his enduring memory 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.480 as well. None of the MPs on the floor would 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:26.480 meet his eye. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:31.520 That's correct because of that. If you're on a jury, 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.280 you don't know the person who excluded if you do. 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.840 But here we knew. Everyone knew. 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.960 I mean, if you asked the past judgment, you knew 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.440 where you'd come from that morning. It was home, breakfast, beautiful. 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:50.359 He hadn't He got up at whatever time in maximum security, 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:57.360 no less, escorted in handcuffs, in handcuffs in a paddy 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.520 wagon and the moment it was all over. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:01.680 Thank you, missus nuple. 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.720 You are now discharged from the order of the House. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.719 If you read the words, you will the sergeant at 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.320 arms take mister Nuttle. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.359 Sergeant Arms, please, ys called mister Nettle from the chamber. 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.359 When I read it now, it's not my words, but 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.520 the sense of occasion is very powerful. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.800 Take mister Nuttle. Back to the custodial offices. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.280 And deliver him to the custody of the corrective services officers. 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.439 Back to maximum security. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:34.280 For heaven's sake, I'm the subject of maximum security. He 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:39.080 spent five and a bit years in maximum security. Do 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:40.959 you think that was fair? 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:48.720 The prison officers, I would say, look, it was maximum security, 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.639 probably to protect a high profile prisoner. 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:53.600 I guess that's what they'd say. 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.040 When I look at it, I think, Look, couldn't we've 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.760 as taxpayer has got better use of of. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:01.840 That money by. 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:07.119 Sometime in maximum because of the offense he was going 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.560 to do eleven years or whatever the number was. Wouldn't 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.320 they be able to go out into a farm somewhere, 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.080 or a school or vincent the pool and help the homeless, 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.840 or help prepare the meals and go back to jail. 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:27.320 I mean, as I recall Don Lane spent some of 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:28.240 the time like that. 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.840 I believe in Scott Driscoll in more recent times the LMP, 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.080 he didn't spend a great deal of time in prison 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:38.320 for his offenses. 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.040 They made an example of him. 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.760 Can I take you to another issue that Nuttle has 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.359 spoken to at length to me about, and that's this 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:56.639 issue of the pecuniary interest Register. His view is that 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:02.160 if he'd filled out the pecuniary interest register with the 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.440 Talbot money, none of the other bad stuff would have followed. 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:12.000 He would have not escaped punishment, but he would have 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:16.040 not had to endure five and a bit years in 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.679 maximum security, another twelve months at a prison farm, and 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.520 then eight years on parole. None of that would have 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.040 happened if he'd just filled out his pecuniary interest register. 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.480 Well, the problem was is that he said there was 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.600 no secrecy. If you look at his statement, Well there was. 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:40.159 He'd been given money and had not declared it. Now, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:41.040 I don't know. 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:43.879 How you get around that. 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.000 It was a case at the time I thought it's 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:51.680 pretty plain what the rules are. 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:53.359 And even if. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:58.400 You're unsure because an accountant's arranged your affairs in such 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.520 a way, see the clerk and say, look. 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:03.680 This is the situation. 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.919 If I had to do that, most members have to 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.600 do it, because sometimes you're in situations that are not 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.360 clear cut. For example, a relative dies, you're left with money, 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.439 where does that fit? And that's what the clerk is 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.600 there for. He's not there to sort of say our 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.600 conjun was in today. I guess what now. They provide 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.359 my experience of it, they provide professional advice. If you 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:36.240 entered into that arrangement. There is no situation that I 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.560 could see that you couldn't and should not have declared 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.879 that that's what those things are there for. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.920 And so if he had declared it, do you think 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:49.639 any of the other stuff would have happened. 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.400 Oh, he would not have been fined for the contempt. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:58.959 The contempt arose out of non declaration forty one times. Now, 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.399 I didn't sit on the coming, but they would have 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.320 had a look at that. And don't forget it's an 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.680 all party committee and it's not, oh well, we'll use 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.280 the labor majority or something. 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:14.600 Don't forget we're using a labor majority. That's your argument 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:17.879 to convict a former labor minister. 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:23.119 My experience on those committees was that your work done 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:29.199 hard to get everybody on board. Now forty was it? 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:34.239 Forty one charges? And the committee said there was a 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.680 case to answer. Now I know he argued there was 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.640 double jeopardy. No no, no, no no. 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:40.359 There was a. 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:45.320 Criminal element for which he was imprisoned, and then there 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:49.919 was a parliamentary element and he was to answer to 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.000 the parliament when you. 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.119 First saw him? Did you see him before he arrived 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.240 at the bar? You were sitting in the Speaker's chair. 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:59.600 He was delivered to the Bar of Parliament. What did 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:01.119 you think when you first saw it? 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:04.360 Am I going to be able to speak? 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:10.720 Because there's the enormity of it. Up and up until 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:15.000 Lanta had been Channel seven news and you know he's. 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:16.800 Going to appear, and Cory a mile. 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.760 That day and then suddenly there it is. There's an 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.720 enormity of it. How is this going to go? But 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:27.520 how is my voice? Am I going to be able 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:27.960 to say? 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:28.240 Well? 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.720 I had just set script to read out. 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:34.200 So is an emotional time? 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:39.440 Yes, it was hugely emotional, hugely emotional. This is somebody 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:43.760 I had known at school. It wasn't you know Al 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:49.040 Capone or somebody who I had was splendidly indifferent. This 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.600 was somebody I'd been in the cabinet with, somebody we'd 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:57.240 had a yarn with, somebody i'd seen before I got 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:58.240 elected to parliament. 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.160 He was in the bank and I know what I 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:00.600 was doing. 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:08.560 So it was hugely emotional for me and thinking how 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:09.840 are we going to get through this? 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:11.000 Well, we're going. 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.840 To get through this the best way we can, because 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:18.919 there's no president that I could see. There was no 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:23.399 other jurisdiction where a prisoner who had been a member 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:25.960 of Parliament was going to appear before the. 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:27.159 Bar of Parliament. 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:33.000 Hugely emotional and you'd have to be an extraordinarily dispassionate 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:35.919 person if you didn't feel the weight of that emotion, 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:36.680 I would have thought. 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:41.280 And he looked he was quite good, and his memory 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.760 from that time was that he had been ill. Yes, 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:48.280 he cut a very forlorn fingure, didn't he Yes, I 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:49.520 was aware. 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:53.240 From one of the attendants, who was a friend of his, 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.360 that he had been suffering an illness in prison. 0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.840 And that just added to the weight of emotion. 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:04.160 It added to the pathos of the of the morning. Yes, 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:04.720 it did. 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:05.040 It was. 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.960 It was hugely, hugely emotional, and going back to the 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.920 it wasn't just me who felt that it was everybody's 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:19.919 gaze was averted, the feeling of I wish I didn't 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:20.680 have to do this. 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:25.080 It was in this parliament that Nattele originally criticized Ken Talbot, 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.560 the man who would eventually loan him three hundred thousand 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:32.439 dollars that would see the MP CENTI jo there's a 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:38.400 very famous exchange where you criticized Ken Talbot in parliament 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:41.840 and then some years later he's lending you three hundred 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:42.879 thousand dollars. 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:48.800 I criticized Ken parliament. I was given some information that 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:53.359 I probably didn't research properly enough. I then found out 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:57.320 about that. At a subsequent one of the big law 0:24:57.359 --> 0:24:59.840 firms had a board lunch. Ken was there. I was, 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.760 and I went up and I apologized to Ken. I offered. 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:09.800 I offered Ken to stand up in parliament apologize. He 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:15.520 said no, I didn't. He didn't want that, And I think, 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:22.560 ironically that's kind of how the makeshift evolved, because he 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.479 thought that took a lot of character for me to 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.920 acknowledge that I was wrong and or to apologize to 0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:32.360 him and then to offer or apologize publicly. So kind 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.000 of that's where we kind of became mate. 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:37.879 In his book Rum and Cole, which Canvas is the 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:41.240