WEBVTT - Reports from Regional Australia 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.080 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:10.079 verdicts against all three defendants. It was absolutely shambles, to 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.480 tell you the truth, just actually really coming. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.000 Blood on his clothing the day after the alleged. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.439 A top on a shallow mud bank, and it fits 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:16.960 Roy River. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.119 Basically, I think most of the people are used to 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:20.600 me are good people. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.280 I think a really important question we need to ask 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.360 is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.880 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.440 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.400 our justice system and ask who are the victims. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.600 I'm Amy Maguire and. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.120 I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.480 Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the names 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.839 of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.000 some listeners. 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:58.000 Welcome to episode twenty eight of Curtin the Podcast. In 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.080 this last week, we've seen a really good report on 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:06.640 NITV about the rally for Kevin. Henry and Linda will 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.199 put video clips of this report up onto the website 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.600 so you can see them for those who haven't been 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.959 able to catch them. Either on NITV or on SBS's 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:21.400 on demand service. The coverage was really good because it 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:26.120 gave a voice to Kevin Henry's family, the Rockhampton and 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.920 Wuabinda community, and also people like Lex Wotton who traveled 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.919 down to speak at the rally, and it's gained further 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:42.119 traction for Kevin Henry's case around Queensland and around Australia. Now. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.440 In addition to the rally, there's also been a number 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:50.240 of petitions circulating. There's one online that will post on 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.360 the website again for those who may wish to sign 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.800 and there's also been written petitions that are going around 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.880 Queensland for people who don't necessarily have access to computers, 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:08.280 and those petitions will be collected separately. Amy's going to 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.600 read you just some of the comments that have been 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.080 left on the main petition that will be online, just 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.519 to give you an idea of the feedback we've been 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.160 getting about the case of Kevin Henry and what people 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.000 have been saying since the. 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.560 Rally was held in rock Campdon earlier this month. The 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.559 online petition has actually attracted quite a number. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.680 More signatures and this petition has been. 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.560 Online for quite a few months now. There's currently two 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.000 and forty five supporters, and there's a lot of very 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:44.960 interesting supportive comments from listeners and other people who may 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:49.120 have heard about Kevin Henry's case from other media coverage 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.880 of the podcast. I'll read out a couple of them. 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.440 Naetia says, give this man back his life, a life 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.639 taken by a corrupt system in an unfortunate situation by 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.360 police so desperate they can't seem to do the job 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:03.760 they are employed to do. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:05.680 Lionel rights. 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.760 Our innocent brother and other brothers are locked away without 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.440 a trial for no reason. Just being accused is enough 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.160 for our so called system to lock away and break 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.960 first nations, families, and communities apart. And I would appreciate 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:24.200 some justice for my people. Stephen writes. If this is true, 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.480 regarding the disregard given against a person having their rightful 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:32.400 legal representation and the possibility of forced confession no DNA submitted, 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.720 then he deserves a retrial cat rights. I'm tired of 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.680 our so called justice system, which is anything but just. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.960 It serves no one except for the legal industry and 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.520 a corrupt political and economic system we were all disempowered by. 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.360 This is just one of many injustices innocent people have 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.400 faced and continue to face. It's time for change, one 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.920 step at a time, and Josh writes this case needs 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.120 a revisit as a lack of evidence is unbelievable. A 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.360 fair trial is more than necessary. Kevin has been locked 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.920 up since the year I was born. This man has 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.640 been imprisoned for my whole life, twenty five years. Imagine 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.160 what it's like to be in his shoes. I'm sure 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.919 anyone with compassion or empathy would sign just on that basis, 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.080 even without taking into account the injustice that has taken place. 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.560 And we even attracted a couple of more high profile signatures, 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:32.480 including pad O'Shane, who was Ashe's first female Aboriginal magistrate, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:37.240 and she wrote I am angry about injustice and closing. 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.800 Danielle writes that stated facts don't add up and it 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.200 is illogical to put anyone in jail when there is 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.039 overwhelming doubt. Also, I personally am aware, even in today's 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.080 unfortunate cultural acceptance of the normality of bias and prejudicial 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.400 behavior towards people from Robinda. All you have to do 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.560 is go into any pub in central Queensland and listen 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:59.360 to the filth that comes out of far too many 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.520 men and women's asked towards Aboriginal people. Sometimes that has 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.200 included a couple of local police persons. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.799 Now we just heard one of the petitioners talk about 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.520 the racism and prejudice that they've seen and experienced in 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.720 Central Queensland. And as we know, the town of Rockhampten 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.200 is in central Queensland and is a regional town center. 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.680 So given this is where Linda's death occurred and where 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:33.040 Kevin Henry is imprisoned, there is a direct link between 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.880 regional Australia and the disproportionate number of Aboriginal and Torestrait 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.680 Islander people who are in prison. So this episode we're 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.560 going to spend a little bit of time focusing on 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:49.880 this issue of regional Australia, the policing, the justice system, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.800 and why so many Aboriginal in Torostraight Islander people from 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:59.120 regional Australia end up in the prison system despite the 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.600 crime rates actually being considerably lower than the major cities. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.279 And given Kevin Henry is from regional Australia and this 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.240 case focuses on regional Australia, we think it's really important 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.040 to point these things out. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.880 Earlier this week, a new report was released by the 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:21.560 Human Rights Law Center and the Change Record Coalition, specifically 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.800 focusing on Aberigeal Entarree Shade Islander women and their interactions 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.640 with the justice system. It created quite a lot of 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:34.680 media coverage and it was all focused around one disgraceful 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.840 statistic that rates of female Indigenous imprisonment have increased two 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.800 hundred and forty eight percent since the ninety ninety one 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.600 report into the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:52.479 But as usual, the media didn't look close enough. Martin, 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.120 what did you think when you looked and read. 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:56.880 Through the report? 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.160 Look, I think the report itself is very important, and 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:04.440 that is a frightening figure. Two hundred plus percent when 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.200 you're talking about anything to do with the justice system 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.960 is a disgraceful number, and to see it happening to 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:17.960 women is particularly interesting and particularly frustrating for those of 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.920 us who work in the sector, because one thing we 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:26.119 do know is that offending amongst Aboriginal and Terrestraate Island 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.480 to people men and women in that same period of 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:34.080 time is down around forty percent. In fact, it's down 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.960 thirty percent in just the last ten years, and yet 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.600 we are seeing this dramatic increase in the number of 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:46.320 people who are spending time in the prison system. I 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.240 think one of the things that was missed by the 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.239 media in reporting on this very good report and work 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.360 that was done some of the issues that lead to 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.640 people being incarcerated in the first place, and what we 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:03.600 know about the vast preponderance of the women, in particular 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:09.200 that they come from backgrounds of housing insecurity, poverty, They 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.400 may have a mental illness or disability, and often suffer 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:18.280 very severe effects of trauma and colonization. So the trauma 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:24.000 might be very modern in terms of domestic violence, assault 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:28.200 at hands of police and other officials, and all sorts 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.160 of trauma, and the colonization trauma is obviously one that 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:38.960 continues throughout the generations where the cycle hasn't been broken. Now, 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.800 the other thing that the media did not pick up 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.480 on that I think was pointed out but has been 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:50.000 completely glossed over, is the number of Aboriginal women who 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:54.120 have been placed on remand that is, locked up before 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:59.360 their trial and who never go on to serve any sentence. Now, 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.040 some of these people might be found guilty and are 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.560 just being sentenced to time already served. But we know 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.040 a huge number of these women are held on remand 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.599 and then freed post their trial with no conviction recorded. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:20.240 So with crime stats amongst Aboriginal people going down, remand 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:25.360 rates are going up, and the incarceration rate overall is 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:30.079 going up, these two things are diametrically opposed, and yet 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.280 no one seems to be pointing that out, and I 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.400 find that particularly concerning, and Mardin. 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.440 It wasn't only that, was it. This never seems to 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.280 be a lot of media coverage or analysis looking at 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.160 the breakdown of the figures, and I think that's a 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.320 problem in Aboriginal affairs, where the facts that obviously we 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:53.720 have a huge diversity across Aboriginal Australia is obviously lost. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.360 Did you find any interesting facts in relation to the 0:09:58.480 --> 0:09:59.840 geographical background? 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.040 Yes, So the statistics I found and went looking for 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.960 were not in the report itself, but they're quite readily 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:13.240 available and they're not reported. Now the largest Aboriginal community 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.760 in Australia is Western Sydney, but the rate of incarceration 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:23.040 amongst that community is in fact the lowest amongst Aboriginal 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:28.920 people in Australia. The highest rate of imprisonment for Aboriginal 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:34.400 people is in regional areas like Rockhampton, where Kevin Henry 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.040 was imprisoned and where Kevin Henry went to court and 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.880 where Linda was murdered. Nearly fifty percent of all Indigenous 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:48.520 prisoners come from regional Australia, and that is despite them 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:53.720 being a much smaller overall population compared to the large 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:59.480 Indigenous populations we see in Darwin, Sydney and Brisbane in particular. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.640 So both men and women from regional areas are disproportionately 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:10.680 locked up despite the crime rates being no higher. Their 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:15.360 locality is almost fifty percent regional areas. Now, if we 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:20.440 look back at what the report found in terms of housing, insecurity, poverty, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:26.760 mental illness and disability, domestic violence and trauma, regional Australia 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.440 is exactly where these services are clearly lacking. Now, I 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.000 don't think that would come as a surprise to anyone 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.760 at all. But if we're going to stop this increase 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.439 that's already two hundred plus percent in just a number 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.680 of decades, the media needs to first report and the 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:51.120 politicians need to understand why this is happening. But because 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.160 the link is not being made by the fifty percent 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:59.400 coming from regional Australia and the lack of services, particularly 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.760 for women and also juvenile Aboriginal people and children in 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:08.520 regional Australia. If this correction is not made, we will 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.000 get to a point where it's one thousand percent increase. 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:16.920 Martin, you talked briefly about remote Australia and Urban Australia, 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.720 and that seems to be the only two parts of 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.880 Aboriginal Australia that is largely focused on. It is either 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:28.440 a focus on remote communities where there's obviously a minority 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.280 of Aboriginal people live, or a focus on urban areas. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:36.319 Why do you think regional Australia is completely left out? 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:40.160 There seems to be a huge black spot around this area, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.520 even though so many Aboriginal people live in regional Australia. 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.000 It's a very difficult one to understand, but I think 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.960 we can see it largely in the way our federal 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:55.920 electorates are divided up in that there's no votes in 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.960 these issues. There's never been votes in reducing the impress 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.960 rates of Aboriginal people, and there's never been votes in 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:10.840 Australia in reducing things like domestic violence, poverty, increasing access 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:16.760 to housing, health, education and domestic violence services. So single 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:22.960 electorates can cover vath swathes of Australia's regional areas. Many 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.200 of these regional areas have been held by the National 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:31.240 Party or the Liberal Party for generations and generations, and 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.160 so funding is just not a priority. But just from 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.080 the brief amount of study we've done just for this episode, 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.720 but it's something Amy and I know because of the 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:47.439 work we've done for so long that regional areas are neglected. 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.240 And it doesn't surprise us at all that the statistics 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.720 that are coming out now show what is occurring, which 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.880 is that a huge number of Aboriginal and torrestrate Islander 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.839 people from regional life Australia are going to prison, are 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:07.520 spending enormous times on remand. And remember many prisons are 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:12.480 not located in regional Australia, so people are moved five, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.920 six ten hours away from where they live to be 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.480 on remand. And now we know as well the factors 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.000 that are pushing these people into prison also the areas 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:28.240 that receive the least amount of funding and support. This 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.200 is not rocket science, and yet it continues to go 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.480 ignored and sadly, the media had an opportunity this week 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.680 to address this issue and simply didn't despite the information 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.360 being right in front of their faces. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.760 Before bringing it back to Kevin's case and the impact 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.160 of regional Australia and is that black spot on his case? 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.880 Can I ask you personally where both from regional areas, 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.600 but do you even see it down in your home country? 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.880 These same recurring problems we what we've seen up here? 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.280 Yeah, I think absolutely, and I think we've seen it, 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.200 both of us with anyone we've spoken to from regional 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:15.680 areas that in my regional area, for example, there's a court, 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:21.280 but there's no Indigenous legal service. There's a police station, 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.920 but the funding for domestic violence for women's shelters has 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:31.760 been drastically cut in the last few years. There's endless 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:36.640 transport to Nara and Golden Prison on a daily basis, 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.880 but there is absolutely no public transport for people who 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.840 might wish to seek further education, who might need to 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:50.000 access medical services. So just observing it on a day 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:54.000 to day basis amongst the people we know and having 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.800 grown up in these areas, these regional areas as we do. 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.680 It's very obvious to ask why this takes place. But again, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.720 as Amy correctly points out, the focus tends to be 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:11.400 on the major cities or the remote areas. And we're 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.200 not saying those areas don't need funding, that people from 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:19.520 those areas don't go to prison at alarming rates when 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.640 they simply don't belong there. They absolutely do. What we're 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:29.760 pointing out is that the statistics are disproportionately against Aboriginal 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.600 Andora Straight Islander people from regional Australia and that cannot 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.160 be ignored any longer when looking. 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:40.280 At Kevin's case. Did any of these aspects unique to 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:42.200 regional Australia play a part? 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.120 Do you think? I think almost every single one we 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.640 raised in terms of what was raised in the latest 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.440 report by the Human Rights Law Center played a role. 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.880 So physical violence and being a survivor of physical or 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:03.960 sexual violence was a common trait. Housing insecurity is obviously 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.480 a clear issue here. We know Tanuba House was where 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:13.240 many homeless people and people suffering housing insecurity were Poverty 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.800 is another issue that was raised, and we know that 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.720 everyone who was at Tanuba House was suffering from poverty, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:27.520 mental illness, disability and undiagnosed conditions were a huge issue. 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.760 These were things that services at Tanuba were trying to 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:37.800 address but clearly underfunded. And the effects of trauma and colonization. 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.280 And I think there wasn't a person there that night. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.359 Everybody who was there that night had been a victim 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.600 of trauma and the ongoing effects of colonization. We know also, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:56.000 of course, the community of Warabinda was particularly impacted by 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.840 forced removals. We know Sherberg, where some of the other 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.840 people who were there that night were from, has been 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.240 tragically impacted by government policy for more than one hundred years. 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.679 And rock Hampton itself, the Aboriginal community in rock Hampton 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:16.720 too has been subject to really gross human rights violations 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:21.080 for a considerable period of time, hundreds of years, while 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.760 all the sort of health and education services services to 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:31.680 address issues like alcoholism domestic violence go completely unfunded. And 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.959 there is an absolute correlation between Kevin's case and these 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.440 statistics that have come out this week now, Mardin. 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.400 We've talked a lot about statistics this episode, and none 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:48.280 of them are good statistics. And recently a prominent Aboriginal 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.720 journalist actually tried to I guess put a positive spin 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.600 on these types of statistics. 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.240 Can you tell me a little bit about that. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.280 Yes, I think it's a stat that's being passed around 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.320 a lot of the moment, used in many articles all 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.360 over social media. And it was a comment made by 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.080 Stan Grant in a speech that for every one Aboriginal 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:15.200 person in prison, there are four Aboriginal people in university. Now, 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.560 that would be a wonderful statistic and something every Aboriginal 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.720 and Torres Straight Islander person would love if it was true. 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.520 The fact is it simply isn't. So I'll give you 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.679 what the actual stats are, and these are from the 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:35.000 Bureau of Statistics and a report recently compiled by doctor 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:39.200 Don Weatherburn from the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research. 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:44.960 For every one hundred thousand Aboriginal people, there are one thousand, 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.399 eight hundred and thirty in prison. For every one hundred 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.640 thousand Aboriginal and Tores Straight Islander people, there are four 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:57.919 hundred and fifty in university. Now, clearly the statistic stand 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.200 Grant has given is the wrong way way around. It's 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.159 for every four Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander people who 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.679 are in prison, there is one in university. It is 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:11.480 not the other way around. And once again, it would 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.960 be fine to say these things, and it would be 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:19.240 wonderful news if it was true. And there's a great 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.800 deal of evidence to tell us why this is not 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.439 true and why claiming such a statistic is wrong and 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.720 should have been obviously wrong to anyone versed in these issues. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.960 Just ten percent of Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander children 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:40.080 who leave year twelve receive a mark that would make 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.560 them eligible for university. That's as opposed to forty six 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:49.800 percent from a non Aboriginal background. Now, to put those 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.639 figures in context, that ten percent who get the grade 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.600 to go to UNI, eighty five percent of Maori in 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:02.840 New Zealand receive a university entrance score, and sixty five 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.920 percent of Native Americans in the United States. Now, there 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.920 are also some other figures that need to be pointed out. 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.600 The completion rate for university for Aboriginal Andentario Straight Islander 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:21.520 students is around a third so from the latest statistics 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:28.800 for twenty fifteen, While some twoy one hundred Aboriginal Onentari 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:34.919 Straight Island students enrolled less than six hundred graduated. So 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:40.199 again you can pick the higher figure that are entering 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.679 but not making it through again is the issue, and 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.120 this issue is much the same as when we talk 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.320 about incarceration. It comes down to a lack of support, 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.560 It comes down to being moved a long way from home, 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:59.080 family and country. It comes down to a misrepresentation of 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.399 what is happening on the ground. To say that four 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.040 for everyone are in UNI instead of jail a is 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:10.240 not accurate, but also misses the point that fifty percent 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:15.200 of all juvenile prisoners in Australia are Aboriginal, despite being 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:19.080 less than three percent of the population. How on earth 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.919 can our young people be ready for university when of 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:28.199 all of those young people in juvenile detention are Aboriginal people. 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:33.879 It seems to me it's not only misleading, it's incredibly irresponsible. Mardin, 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.439 because we've seen through Kevin Henry's case, through this report 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:41.600 which is just released into the really horroring statistics into 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.360 the rising rates of Aboriginal women being incarcerated, that it's 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.959 something we shouldn't ignore. And it sort of feels as 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.200 if comparing the two, even though the figures are completely wrong, 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:56.520 are almost acts as if it's covering up the problem, 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:58.800 as if we shouldn't be talking about it when it's 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:00.280 a very present issue. 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:04.560 Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And given that we're 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:07.879 not seeing a reduction here. If we were seeing a 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:13.440 reduction in Indigenous incarceration, then I could completely understand why 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:17.919 people would see that as a progress away from the 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:22.560 prison system and involvement in the judicial system and towards 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:27.919 say higher education. But we're not seeing that. We're seeing 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:32.640 dropout rates just as high, and we're seeing imprisonment rates 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:37.880 going through the roof two hundred and something percent. We're 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:43.800 seeing crime amongst Aboriginal people go down. Violent crime in 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.399 particular is down forty three percent amongst Aboriginal people in 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.560 the last ten years in New South Wales, and yet 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.800 incarceration rates for Aboriginal people in New South Wales have 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.040 gone up eighty four percent in the same time. So 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:01.439 it's very irresponsible because it sends a message to the 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:05.919 broader public that things are on the improof when the 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:10.040 statistics clearly show they are not. And how we ever 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:16.000 expected to reverse these drastic and horrific stats of Aboriginal 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:19.800 entorres Strait Islander people being sent to prison clearly for 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:24.760 nonviolent crimes. In the large part, when people are sharing 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:28.560 statistics who are given a large platform that make the 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:33.520 nation believe the majority of Aboriginal people are attending university 0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:39.640 rather than suffering because of incarceration. And remember it's not 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:43.480 just the person who goes to prison that suffers. Again, 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:45.760 if we come back to the case of Kevin Henry, 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:50.399 twenty five years of his life stolen away, look at 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:53.719 the impact it has had on his family, Look at 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:56.840 the impact it's had on the community of Warabinda and 0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:00.680 the community in Rockhampton. These are one hundred of people 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.720 detrimentally impacted for twenty five plus years. Look at the 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:10.040 suffering cause to Lenda's family. This is something they'll never 0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:14.439 get over. So sharing stats that are both wrong and 0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:19.639 have no comparison or relevance to each other whatsoever will 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:23.600 not make any difference for Aboriginal entrres Strait Islander people. 0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:27.040 It'll simply mean the blinkers are applied even more. 0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:31.840 But we of course don't have the blinkers on. Just 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.520 recently we uncovered more evidence in relation to Kevin Henry's case, 0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:40.720 a large swave of documents that hasn't come to light before. 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:43.360 So keep listening because. 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:46.480 In the near future we'll be bringing you that new 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:50.159 information for now. You can find out the details of 0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:54.560 that online petition on our website www dot kurninthepodcast dot 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:58.639 com and you'll also find the recent story by National 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:00.240 Indigenous Television. 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:02.479 Here in Australia. Be sure to check it out and 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:05.000 join us on Facebook and Todo as well. 0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:09.400 That was episode twenty eight of Curtain the Podcast.