1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbach. I'm an 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. This 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: episode is another my favorite tip episode. The titles probably 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from each 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: of the interviews I conduct. So my guest today is 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: Chris Gillibo. Chris is a New York Times best selling 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: author and modern day explorer, having visited every country in 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: the world that's one hundred and ninety three in total 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: before his thirty fifth birthday. You might have come across 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: Chris's work in Side Hustles because he's the author of 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: the one hundred dollars Startup Side Hustle and most recently 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: one hundred Side Hustles and his daily podcast, Yes that 16 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: is Daily Side Hustle School is downloaded more than two 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: million times a month. Chris and I also happened to 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: share a literary agent in America, which is how I 19 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: got connected with him in the first place. So in 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: this extract, I was asking Chris about his podcast, The 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: Side Hustle School, where he releases a new episode every day, 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: every single day. So this chat starts by me asking 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: Chris why he doesn't batch record his podcasts, which then 24 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: leads to his really interesting perspective on perfectionism. 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: Well, it's I think batching them for me, And this 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: could just be me, right, but it's just like my 27 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 2: perception was, if you batch them, then it takes away 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: the real time nature of it. Now obviously the podcast 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: is not going out live, you know, and like we 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: do have a bit of a buffer. We have about 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: a ten day buffer right now. But nevertheless, and because 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: I'm like doing it every day, I feel like, especially 33 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: when I go on book tour, it's like, oh, I'm 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: in this city today, you know, I'm going to this 35 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: place and just didn't didn't. I just felt kind of 36 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: weird doing that if I'm recording like, you know, a 37 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 2: month's episodes or something at one and then I think, 38 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: also it's just a practical thing. We didn't have the content, like, 39 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: we didn't have like when I started the program, I 40 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: had the first seven episodes recorded and I said, you know, 41 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: January one, twenty seventeen, there'll be an episode every single 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: day this year. And I had the first seven, and 43 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: I had that for the next, the next like seven 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: to ten identified in terms of like what they were 45 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: going to be, but you know, not written, recorded, produced, 46 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: et cetera. And then after that I had nothing. So 47 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, it was just like, 48 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: let's see if we can do this, you know, and 49 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: hopefully the community will sustain itself and people will send 50 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: in referrals and all that. But I liked that element 51 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 2: of it as well. It kept it kind of fresh 52 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: for me. It felt like I was it felt like 53 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: I was pioneering as opposed to just like maintaining something. 54 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: And I tend to be better when i'm pioneering something 55 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: then when I'm just keeping something going. 56 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: That's interesting. And so you've got a ten day buffer 57 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: at the moment, which again blows my mind. But I'm 58 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: also quite inspired by that. I must say, I kind 59 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: of get that that need to be releasing and keeping 60 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: it fresh. Like I know, for me, when I've done 61 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: a whole lot of interviews and i'd say got two 62 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: months worth of a schedule all done, it almost feels 63 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: a little bit frustrating. So it's like, oh, I just 64 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: want to get these episodes out into the world, right 65 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, so I can completely relate to that pros. 66 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: And cons to everything, you know. 67 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. And in terms of you know, doing this daily, 68 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: what are the I guess shortcuts or things that you've 69 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: learned that help make this a quicker process because it 70 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: has to fit into so many other things going on 71 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: in your. 72 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,839 Speaker 2: Life, right right? Well that yeah, then that second part 73 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: is really key because like, this isn't the only thing 74 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: I do. I do other stuff, and it's a major 75 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: thing I do, you know, for sure, but it's not 76 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: the only thing. So yeah, that's a good question. What 77 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: kind of shortcuts have I built into it? I mean, 78 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: I'm fortunate to work with really great people. That's the 79 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: first thing I would say is I don't do any 80 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: audio production myself, and I have a content manager who's 81 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: working with various writers who are like then working with 82 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: all the case studies. So I get a lot of 83 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: stuff that comes to me and then I do like 84 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: final edits. I write an introduction, I write the conclusion. 85 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: So we've got that down. I would love to say 86 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: that we've got it down to like a factory, but 87 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: it's not quite quite that polished yet. And then maybe 88 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: just also just letting go of stuff because like, you know, 89 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: you can't actually ship a daily podcast or anything consistently 90 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: if you're a perfectionist. And so fortunately I'm not a perfectionist, 91 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: and I you know, I don't mind saying like, oh, 92 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: you know, that wasn't my best, but instead of like 93 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: obsessing over it, I got I just got to keep 94 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: going because there's a little bit of a treadmill effect, 95 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: you know to it. And yeah, I think if I 96 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: worried about all the small stuff, it would never happen. 97 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: The perfectionist thing is interesting, I find, you know, so 98 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: many people that have got to, like the level of 99 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: success that you've achieved, are absolutely perfectionist. Is that something 100 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: that you were and you had to fight against or 101 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: something that you've never had. 102 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: To you know, that's interesting, I think, I mean, I 103 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 2: think it's almost like an excuse, you know. I think 104 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: people who don't produce a lot, perfectionism is holding them back, 105 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: you know, because they don't think it's good enough, or 106 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: you know, for whatever reason, they have some insecurity over it. 107 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: So I don't I don't know that I actually don't 108 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: know a ton of like really successful people who are perfectionists, 109 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: you know. I feel like maybe I mean the ones 110 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: who are, maybe they're like at the top, top top 111 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: of the game, you know, But I think everybody else 112 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: if you try to have, if you try to maintain 113 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: it doesn't mean like you're not you know, striving for 114 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: for quality and excellence. But those are very different things 115 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: than perfection, you know. I think like nothing is ever perfect. 116 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: I mean, like every book I've written has like at 117 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: least one typo in it, even though you know it's 118 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: produced by major publishers and there's like a lot of 119 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: people who go through it, you know, editors and copy 120 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: editors and proof readers, et cetera. But yet stuff still happens. 121 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 2: And so yeah, I don't know. I think perfectionism is 122 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: it's either an excuse to do something you know that 123 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 2: you like, it's an excuse to not follow a dream 124 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: that you have, or it's like justification to not not 125 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: chip something or not put it out into the world. 126 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: So I'm not huge fan of it. 127 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: Hello me again. I just loved what Chris had to 128 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,799 Speaker 1: say about perfectionism. This is definitely something I can relate 129 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: to in my own life. So I used to be 130 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: a total perfectionist, and it is so freeing when you 131 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,239 Speaker 1: realize that things don't actually need to be perfect. Clients 132 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: won't leave you, the world won't fall apart, and ultimately 133 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: things get shipped and you get customer feedback far faster 134 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: than if you wait until things are perfect, which ironically 135 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: is one of the keys to making things perfect or 136 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: at least a whole lot better. So that's it for today. 137 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: If you like this excerpt, you might want to listen 138 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: to my full chat with Chris, which I link to 139 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: in the show notes. And if you're enjoying how I work, 140 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: I'd love it if you could take five seconds to 141 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: leave a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening 142 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: to this from. So leaving reviews actually makes it easier 143 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: for other people to find this podcast, and it's also 144 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: wonderful for me to read to get that feedback. So 145 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: thank you to everyone who has taken the time to 146 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: do that. It is hugely, hugely appreciated. So that's in 147 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: for today and I'll see you next time.