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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the seventeenth of August. I'm Zara Seidler, I'm Sam Kauzlowski.

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Speaker 2: The Public school Teachers' union in New South Wales says

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Speaker 2: it's been betrayed by the New South Wales government in

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Speaker 2: wage negotiations and teachers are telling us they're frustrated too.

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Speaker 3: It does definitely feel like a kick in the gut.

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Speaker 4: We're just asking to be paid what we're worth, yet

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Speaker 4: we get slapped in the face.

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Speaker 2: So how did these negotiations break down and what's the

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Speaker 2: government's perspective on all of this. Our podcast producer Nina

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Speaker 2: is going to come on and explain all of it

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Speaker 2: in today deep dive. But first Sam, it was a

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Speaker 2: big night.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 6: Zara the Matilda's dream run in this FIFA World Cup

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Speaker 6: has come to an end. They went down to England

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Speaker 6: three to one last night in front of seventy five

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Speaker 6: thousand fans at Stadium Australia. Not even a Sam Kerr

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Speaker 6: wonder strike could get the Matilda's back in contention against

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Speaker 6: a very strong english side. They now face Spain in

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Speaker 6: the final of the World Cup on Sunday night. Australia

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Speaker 6: still has one more game. They'll play Sweden up in

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Speaker 6: Brisbane on Saturday night in the third verse fourth playoff.

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Speaker 6: I did just want to mention how incredibly proud all

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Speaker 6: Australians are of the Matilda's team and whilst they didn't

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Speaker 6: go all the way, I think that it was a

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Speaker 6: hugely successful tournament and undoubtedly has changed Australian sport forever

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Speaker 6: and for the better.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday, at national cabinet from all states and territories agreed

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Speaker 2: to set a target to build an extra two hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand homes by mid twenty twenty nine. They also agreed

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Speaker 2: to enact nationally consistent laws for renters, but stopped short

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Speaker 2: of limiting how much rent can increase.

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Speaker 5: Cameras are being used at the new South Wales Queensland

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Speaker 5: border to stop the illegal movement of high risk materials

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Speaker 5: that could be carrying dangerous fire ants into New South Wales.

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Speaker 5: This comes after the New South Wales government added initial

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Speaker 5: movement restrictions in July. Fears have been raised as seasonal

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Speaker 5: demand for livestock, feed and landscaping supplies grow.

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Speaker 2: And the good news AI is being used to monitor

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Speaker 2: the movements of British animals in the wild. Tens of

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Speaker 2: thousands of data files and thousands of hours of audio

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Speaker 2: have been used at three sites to identify the animals.

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Speaker 2: Researchers believe it could help protect Britain's biodiversity.

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Speaker 5: So for the last few weeks we've been encouraging you

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Speaker 5: to reach out to us and to tell us what

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Speaker 5: you want to hear here on this podcast. It can

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Speaker 5: be interviews or explainers, and last week someone left us

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Speaker 5: a message on Spotify saying, and I'll read it out

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Speaker 5: for you, please do a story on the New South

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Speaker 5: Wales teachers having their pay rise promise broken by Chris

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Speaker 5: Mins's governments. Our producer Nina has been on the case. Nina,

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Speaker 5: welcome back to the podcast.

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Speaker 7: Thanks for having me Sam.

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Speaker 5: What can you tell me about this story.

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Speaker 7: Well, I feel like last year we were talking a

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Speaker 7: lot about the teacher shortages, about teacher burnout. We did

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Speaker 7: an episode called Teachers told Us they Aren't Coping. So well, yeah,

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Speaker 7: we'll chuck that link in the show notes. But it

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Speaker 7: does feel like we haven't spoken about this in a while,

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Speaker 7: and I know from my teacher friends the issue definitely

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Speaker 7: hasn't gone away.

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Speaker 5: So set the scene for me with this story. What

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Speaker 5: are the main things to consider?

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Speaker 7: Well, as I said, it does all come back to

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Speaker 7: that sense of teacher burnout. Before I go any further, though, Sam,

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Speaker 7: I do just want to say I do know that

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Speaker 7: these issues affect teachers across the whole country. This is

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Speaker 7: not unique to New South Wales.

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Speaker 5: It's a national issue exactly.

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Speaker 7: But I I'm going to be speaking a little bit

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Speaker 7: more about New South Wales in this episode just because

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Speaker 7: it's where we've seen a lot of the industrial action

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Speaker 7: and it's where we've seen this political escalation in the

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Speaker 7: last few weeks. So to come back to the context,

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Speaker 7: a report last week revealed that there are currently nine

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Speaker 7: hundred and twenty two permanent teacher vacancies in regional and

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Speaker 7: remote New South Wales. Schools earlier in the year, the

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Speaker 7: Teacher's Federation, so that's the union and we'll be speaking

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Speaker 7: about them quite a bit today, said that leaked Department

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Speaker 7: of Education figures. So almost one in five teachers are

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Speaker 7: leaving within their first five years of the profession and

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Speaker 7: that's double what it was a few years ago.

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Speaker 5: So tell me what's happening in New South Wales.

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Speaker 7: Then, So just as a refresher, and I think we

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Speaker 7: spoke a little bit about this in that podcast episode

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Speaker 7: that I mentioned. In June last year, teachers in New

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Speaker 7: South Wales went on a twenty four hour strike calling

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Speaker 7: for better wages and better conditions. Then towards the end

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Speaker 7: of last year, public school teachers in New South Wales

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Speaker 7: did get something like a six percent pay rise, but

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Speaker 7: over two years with inflation at seven point three percent

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Speaker 7: at that point, the union said basically that wasn't good

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Speaker 7: enough for them.

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Speaker 5: So this was all happening while Dominic Pereite was the premier.

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Speaker 5: He obviously lost the election to Chris Mins. He's no

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Speaker 5: longer the premier. Chris Mins is in office, but this

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Speaker 5: issue is still ongoing. This was actually an election issue though,

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Speaker 5: So what did Chris Mins promise in his campaign.

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Speaker 7: Well, I'm sure you remember Billy Fitzsimon's editor actually interviewed

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Speaker 7: Chrismins right before the election.

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Speaker 8: One thing that we keep hearing about is a significant

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Speaker 8: shortage of teachers and nurses, and a major issue for

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Speaker 8: both of those professions is pay. Would teachers and nurses

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Speaker 8: receive a pay rise in line with or above inflation

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Speaker 8: under a government you lead.

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Speaker 9: We can't promise that, and we're not going to the

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Speaker 9: election promising that. What we will say is that we

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Speaker 9: will sit down with essential workers in the state to

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Speaker 9: work out a fair bargain. Because you're right that there's

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Speaker 9: been a thirty percent decline in the number of school

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Speaker 9: leaders that are choosing to study education atsity, and if

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Speaker 9: that doesn't radically improve soon, if we don't get more

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Speaker 9: teachers in to the system, then the declining outcomes we're

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Speaker 9: seeing in education is just going to get worse, not better.

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Speaker 7: And so during the election, the Public School Teachers Union

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Speaker 7: really threw their support behind Chrismins.

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Speaker 10: For teachers, this election matters, it's about you, your students,

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Speaker 10: and our future.

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Speaker 7: So the union was saying that labor was committing to

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Speaker 7: really sit down with them and negotiate better wages and

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Speaker 7: conditions for the teachers in New South Wales.

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Speaker 10: Federation has welcomed the labor commitments and we will make

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Speaker 10: sure they honor them if they win the election.

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Speaker 5: So the union was very much on Mins's side during

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Speaker 5: the campaign. He ends up winning the election, Labor is

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Speaker 5: instated into office.

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Speaker 7: What happens then, well, the sit down that everyone was

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Speaker 7: talking about, that did happen. And remember that labor and

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Speaker 7: the unions traditionally are very politically aligned, but both sides

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Speaker 7: have very different accounts of what actually happened when they

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Speaker 7: did sit down to have those meetings. What the union

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Speaker 7: is saying is that they had negotiations in April May

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Speaker 7: and again in June of this year, and that they

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Speaker 7: actually reached an agreement with the government that would have

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Speaker 7: seen salaries for graduate teachers. So those are kind of

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Speaker 7: your lower paid teatry level. Yes, they would have seen

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Speaker 7: a salary rise of around twelve percent, while the more

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Speaker 7: highly paid teachers would have seen an increase of around

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Speaker 7: eight percent. So that was the agreement that the union

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Speaker 7: said they reached with the government.

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Speaker 5: So if they reached an agreement in those discussions, where

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Speaker 5: does the contention come in Well.

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Speaker 7: What the union is saying is that the government has

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Speaker 7: walked away from that commitment and that they've been misled

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Speaker 7: by the government, who again remember they supported during the

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Speaker 7: last election campaigning on these very issues. The government did

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Speaker 7: make them another offer. Both sides agree on that, but Sam,

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Speaker 7: it's actually quite confusing to explain exactly what is currently

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Speaker 7: on the table. It's definitely not that eight to twelve

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Speaker 7: percent I was talking about before, but because negotiations are ongoing,

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Speaker 7: it's hard to get detail in terms of what they're

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Speaker 7: actually discussing right now. But it's safe to set the

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Speaker 7: unions are not happy with it, and their belief is

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Speaker 7: that the government has gone back on what they promised.

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Speaker 7: This is then President of the Teachers' Union, Angelou Gavriel

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Speaker 7: artis what.

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Speaker 11: Has occurred is nothing short of an act of betrayal,

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Speaker 11: a kick in the guts for every teacher. This is

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Speaker 11: not over. This is not over.

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Speaker 5: So you've laid out for me what the unions are saying,

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Speaker 5: but that's only one side of this. Exactly what's the

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Speaker 5: government saying.

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Speaker 7: With the government and the Premier Christmins has been adamant

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Speaker 7: that no agreement was actually reached. They say yes we

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Speaker 7: were having your conversation, but we were still at the

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Speaker 7: point of negotiation.

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Speaker 12: When the Teachers Federation jumped up from the negotiating table.

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Speaker 12: We were swapping offers the night before, late into the evening,

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Speaker 12: so we're always being prepared to negotiate with the teachers Federation.

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Speaker 7: The government says they understand teachers feel overwhelmed, burnt out,

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Speaker 7: undervalued and underpaid, but that the deal they're now offering

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Speaker 7: is a good one.

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Speaker 12: We were prepared to offer a deal to the Teachers

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Speaker 12: Federation that would lift first few teachers from the second

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Speaker 12: worst paid in the country to the best paid.

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Speaker 9: In the country.

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Speaker 7: And just to reiterate Sam, we aren't exactly clear on

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Speaker 7: what that deal is yet, as these negotiations are ongoing

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Speaker 7: behind closed doors.

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Speaker 5: And what do you think is going to happen now?

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Speaker 7: Well, I guess these negotiations continue, although after everything we've

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Speaker 7: heard the last few weeks, it's fair to assume that

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Speaker 7: tensions around these negotiations are certainly higher than they were initially.

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Speaker 7: When he addressed the teacher's union, Gabriel Latis said, times

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Speaker 7: running out.

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Speaker 11: And the government will be held to account and we

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Speaker 11: will demand that they deliver on their commitments and honor

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Speaker 11: the agreement that was reached.

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Speaker 7: So so far, the union hasn't called for any general

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Speaker 7: strike like we saw last year, but they have asked

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Speaker 7: all members to walk out on any school visits by

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Speaker 7: the Premier, Deputy Premier, Minister for Education or Treasurer.

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Speaker 5: For a good fellow up or a visit exactly.

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Speaker 7: There's also been some small escalations with mini getting heckles

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Speaker 7: last week and protests outside Deputy Premiere Prouka's office yesterday

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Speaker 7: and more protests planned for outside Chrisman's office later today.

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Speaker 7: But we also wanted to know what teachers in the

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Speaker 7: TDA community had to say about all of this, and

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Speaker 7: when we ask them, we got messages like this, We're.

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Speaker 4: Just asking to be paid what we're worth to keep

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Speaker 4: up with inflation. Yet we get slapped in the face

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Speaker 4: and then they wonder why there's a teacher shortage and

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Speaker 4: why no one wants to go into the profession.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't necessarily feel like a stub in the back, but

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Speaker 3: it does definitely feel like a kick in the gut.

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Speaker 3: Just yeah, feeling like there might have been some real

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Speaker 3: potential for change. Yeah, now that kind of seems a

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Speaker 3: little bit grim.

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Speaker 4: There are a lot of kids who love school, and

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Speaker 4: we do what we do for them, but it's getting

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Speaker 4: harder and harder.

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Speaker 5: We'll definitely keep track of this story, and I'd also

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Speaker 5: be really interested to hear how teachers in other states

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Speaker 5: are fairing and what the experience is with teachers unions

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Speaker 5: and other state and territory governments have been because I

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Speaker 5: know this is such an important profession and such an

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Speaker 5: important area for our listeners.

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Speaker 7: And I will just say, Sam, so I'm the producer

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Speaker 7: of this podcast, so you know, sometimes I come on

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Speaker 7: and join you, but I'm always there behind the scenes always.

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Speaker 7: One of the things I love is when people send

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Speaker 7: us voice notes, like we included in this episode from

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Speaker 7: teachers in New South Wales, and you know, sometimes we

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Speaker 7: ask for those, we'll put up a story on Instagram,

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Speaker 7: but sometimes people have a story to tell them they'll

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Speaker 7: just send them in without us even asking.

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Speaker 5: So the best way for someone to send in a

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Speaker 5: voice note.

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Speaker 7: The best way is just to send us a dam

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Speaker 7: on Instagram.

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Speaker 5: Thanks Nina for joining us on the pod today.

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Speaker 7: Thanks for having me, Sam.

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Speaker 5: And thank you for joining us on the podcast as well.

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Speaker 5: If you did learn something from today's episode, we'd love

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Speaker 5: to hear your reflections on it. You can leave a

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Speaker 5: little Q and a note if you're listening on Spotify.

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Speaker 5: We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then, have a right day.

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Speaker 3: H