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Speaker 1: Every single day. She's begging for a phone. She says

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Speaker 1: she's the only one without one. Sound familiar. Hello and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Real parenting Solutions every

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Speaker 1: day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast and Melbourne dad

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Speaker 1: sent us a voice note about his twelve year old

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Speaker 1: daughter who's in her first year of high school, desperately

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Speaker 1: wanting a smartphone. She's almost made it to the end

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Speaker 1: of the year. He and his wife are holding the

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Speaker 1: line until year eight with research and conviction about the risks,

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Speaker 1: but facing daily battles and the classic everyone else has

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Speaker 1: one argument. His question, are there any resources pitched at

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Speaker 1: preteens that might help them understand the risks of having

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Speaker 1: a supercomputer in their pocket. Here's the thing. While those

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Speaker 1: resources might not exist, there are proven strategies to help

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Speaker 1: your child understand your decision and even get on board

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Speaker 1: with it. Stay with us, Hi, and Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast. Repairing Solutions every single day. We are

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Speaker 1: Justin and Kylie Colson Tricky Questions Edition Every Tuesday. Your

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Speaker 1: Tricky Questions are answered. If you want to be featured

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Speaker 1: on the pod, send us a voice note. Podcasts at

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Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com. You or go to happy families dot com.

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Speaker 1: You scroll down to podcasts, click the record button and

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Speaker 1: start talking. Here's today's from Nick.

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Speaker 2: Hi Nick from Melbourne. Our daughter is twelve. She's in

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Speaker 2: her first year of high school. We're desperately holding back

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Speaker 2: the tide on giving her a smartphone until at least

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Speaker 2: year eight. She has a smart watch, so she still

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Speaker 2: has social connection with her friends and the ability to

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Speaker 2: contact us when needed, just no social media camera or

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Speaker 2: web browser, which is exactly how we want it for now.

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Speaker 2: But the watch is small and friddly, so nowhere near

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Speaker 2: as enticing as a smartphone. Every single day she's begging

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Speaker 2: us for a phone. She says she's the only one

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Speaker 2: of her peers without a phone. Apparently, We've dedicated considerable

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Speaker 2: time to researching the issues around teens and smartphones and

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Speaker 2: have conviction in our views. But are there any resources

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Speaker 2: or podcasts available that have pitched more towards preteens that

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Speaker 2: might help them understand the risks to them having a

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Speaker 2: supercomputer in their pocket?

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Speaker 1: So kytie, I love how articulate Nick is and how

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Speaker 1: thoughtful he is in both what he's already done and

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Speaker 1: the way he's asked the question, what's your initial reaction?

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Speaker 3: Is he our first dad?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's our first dad. We don't get a lot

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Speaker 1: of male voices on the pod. That's great, Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is great.

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Speaker 3: Like you said, I love how articulate he's been, and

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Speaker 3: I love how invested he is and his daughter's well being.

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Speaker 3: The more pre armed we are as parents, the more

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Speaker 3: we're able to scaffold our children through this tricky period

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Speaker 3: of time. But I kind of feel like, even if

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Speaker 3: there are resources, most of our kids, I can think

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Speaker 3: of hundreds of conversations we've had with our children over

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Speaker 3: the years where they have literally looked at us and gone, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but that won't be me.

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Speaker 1: Like yesus of the reward outweighs any risks that are associated.

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Speaker 1: The risks will only have to people. Oh yeah, I'll

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Speaker 1: say yes whenever you ask me to hand the phone,

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Speaker 1: and I'll do exactly what you say. They will say

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Speaker 1: anything anything. So I'm writing this book about boys, and

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Speaker 1: one of my early readers, we've got a group of

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Speaker 1: beta readers. They're sort of going through those first drafts

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Speaker 1: for me and providing feedback, And one of the beta

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Speaker 1: readers said, we need a boys book. For boys like

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Speaker 1: I need you to do this for my teenage son,

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Speaker 1: like this book, except a teenage version of it, because

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Speaker 1: my son won't read this one. And one of the

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Speaker 1: other BEATA readers on a conference call said, well, why

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Speaker 1: don't we just do a chapter at the end of

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Speaker 1: the book and so you can read the book and

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Speaker 1: then hand the book to your son and say, just

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Speaker 1: read this last chapter. This one's for you. And my

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Speaker 1: response was, what teenage boy is going to say, Well,

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Speaker 1: since you've got a great relationship with doctor Justin, you've

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Speaker 1: read this whole book, let me read the last chapter.

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Speaker 1: I'm all in. They don't want to hear it, especially

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Speaker 1: if it comes from us. And even if you're handing

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Speaker 1: them the resource and saying, hey, this is not actually

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Speaker 1: from me, it's from somebody else and they've done the resources,

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Speaker 1: they're seeking it themselves, there's going to be a lack

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Speaker 1: of motivation. You're shove it in front of their nose,

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Speaker 1: put it over their ears, it's still likely to backfire.

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Speaker 1: And frankly, nick, I don't know of any resources that

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Speaker 1: have been built, especially for young people, where they're going

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Speaker 1: to get the questions answered and they're going to get

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Speaker 1: the stuff preached to them that you once preached to them.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to share instead, or we're going to

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Speaker 1: share today in our conversation with you, a couple of strategies.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll share three strategies that will make a

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Speaker 1: difference in moving the needle on this bearing in mind

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Speaker 1: that we may never ever get to complete satisfaction with

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Speaker 1: our kids around this topic. This is perennial. It just

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Speaker 1: keeps ongoing. My first one, and it's something that if

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Speaker 1: you're a long time listener of the podcast you'll be

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Speaker 1: familiar with is lots of conversations using the three is

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Speaker 1: of effective discipline.

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Speaker 3: I think that's so often as parents, we think that

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Speaker 3: we can have a one off conversation, hit the and

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Speaker 3: move on, and when we find ourselves back in that

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Speaker 3: same place where we're having another conversation about the same thing,

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Speaker 3: we think that our approach isn't working. I don't know

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Speaker 3: what the research says on this, but I have experienced it,

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Speaker 3: even with you in our marriage.

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Speaker 1: With me, pray tell.

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Speaker 3: The amount of times that we have a conversation and

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Speaker 3: we come back and revisit it and it's like I'd

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Speaker 3: never have said that before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Or alternatively, I'll have the idea myself, or you'll have.

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Speaker 3: A conversation with your mum after we've had the conversation,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it's a really good idea,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't a great idea when I brought it up.

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Speaker 3: As humans, we actually often, especially with ideas or concepts

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Speaker 3: that challenge us, we have to hear it multiple times.

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Speaker 3: We have to we have to understand.

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Speaker 1: You're going to be able to process it, That's exactly.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes it's got nothing to do with who said

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Speaker 3: it to you, but where your mindset is in that moment,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it's like this light bulb

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Speaker 3: goes on and you go, oh, that makes so much sense.

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Speaker 3: Why haven't I ever thought of that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear it once and I dismiss it. I

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Speaker 1: hear it a second time, I'll consider it. I hear

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Speaker 1: it the third time, I'm like, oh, okay, this makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, you had to bring my mum into

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Speaker 1: it and those conversations, and I'm a little bit defensive

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Speaker 1: and upset about that. But basically, Nick, when you're having

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Speaker 1: these conversations with your kids, it's just never won and done.

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Speaker 1: And if you're thinking that you can sit down and

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Speaker 1: have a twenty minute conversation and get to a solution

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Speaker 1: and have everyone fisz, pump, high five, shake hands, hug, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and that everything will be fine, especially around a topic

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Speaker 1: is divisive as technology, it's just not going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's so emotionally charged for her as well.

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Speaker 1: Her life will be in that phone as far as

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Speaker 1: she's concerned, which is why you're concerned.

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Speaker 3: And often another challenge that we experience is our child

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Speaker 3: comes home and says I'm the only one, and we

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Speaker 3: take that at face value because they're the ones who

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Speaker 3: are experienced thinks this on a day to day basis.

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Speaker 3: But I found that it's really handy if we can

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Speaker 3: actually infiltrate the community path and start to have some

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Speaker 3: conversations with other parents, and you'll find out really quickly

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Speaker 3: that your daughter isn't the only one. Maybe she's the

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Speaker 3: only one within her social group, but she won't be

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Speaker 3: the only one all right.

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Speaker 1: So we need to get to the break, but very quickly.

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Speaker 1: For those who are new to the POD or haven't

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Speaker 1: read The Parenting Revolution, let me step through what the

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Speaker 1: three is of effective discipline are. Just to make sure

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Speaker 1: that This is absolutely plain as day number one. Explore,

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Speaker 1: Explore what's going on for your child. Acknowledge her concerns seriously,

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Speaker 1: really listen, listen, listen, listen, Understand why this matters to her. Next,

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Speaker 1: explain the reasoning behind your decision. So don't just explain

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Speaker 1: the rule. Explain the reasoning and the rationale behind it.

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Speaker 1: Make sure that the conversations are continuing and that her

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Speaker 1: concerns are You want to position this is thoughtful parenting,

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Speaker 1: not arbitrary power. It's not I'm doing this because on

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Speaker 1: the parent it's because I'm listening to and I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to understand where you're coming from and empower as much

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Speaker 1: as you can. So I've written a couple of things

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Speaker 1: on my notes here. My first question is why grade eight?

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Speaker 1: Is there something magical that happens at the age of

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Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen. I love that there's phone but no connectivity,

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Speaker 1: but I wonder if she could have a phone and

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Speaker 1: not have connectivity ongoingly, I want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you're ex exploring, exploring as much as you can so

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Speaker 1: that you're not just having this arbitrary Oh, we think

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Speaker 1: grade eight's the right age, so therefore it is I

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Speaker 1: know that there's a whole lot of noise out there

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Speaker 1: in the media about it, and there are plenty of

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Speaker 1: people who have got movements going with grade eight being

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Speaker 1: where they've landed. But it's not necessarily right for your kids.

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Speaker 1: I actually think that some kids need a phone in

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Speaker 1: grade five or grade six. They're unusual, it's exceptional, and

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Speaker 1: we really want to limit what they've got access to.

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Speaker 1: But I think that there are good arguments to be

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Speaker 1: made in some cases. I also think that most kids

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Speaker 1: don't need a phone until they're fifteen, sixteen, maybe even

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Speaker 1: seventeen or eighteen, and so understanding the context matters. There

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Speaker 1: are two more really important things we need to talk about,

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Speaker 1: and they will help to answer next question about where

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Speaker 1: to go to get good information to have these conversations

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Speaker 1: stay with us. Okay, Kylie, let's run through a couple

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Speaker 1: of other ideas that are going to help Nick from

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Speaker 1: Melbourne with his daughter, who is the only one who

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a phone out of everybody that has a phone.

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Speaker 1: I've found that it's really useful to use content creators

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Speaker 1: who discuss phone addiction and mental health impacts, and you

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Speaker 1: can get your child to follow them on their social

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Speaker 1: media platforms if they're willing to so. One of my

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Speaker 1: favorites is Jonathan Hate. Another one is called Official Herd.

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Speaker 1: They're both on Instagram. And even people like doctor Brad

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Speaker 1: Marshall are the unplugged psychologist, people who have strong academic

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Speaker 1: backgrounds and who are sharing really thoughtful content. Now you

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Speaker 1: might not tell them to follow them, but you might say, hey,

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Speaker 1: once a week, we're going to sit down and just

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Speaker 1: have a look at what other people are saying, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to discuss these issues and see how you

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Speaker 1: feel about it. That can be really helpful. I'd be

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Speaker 1: looking for young people who are talking about their own

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Speaker 1: struggles with technology. There's plenty of them. One of my

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Speaker 1: favorites is Freyer India, who is so good Freya Freyer India.

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Speaker 1: There's just something about how the message lands when it

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Speaker 1: comes from somebody other than a parent. I mean, our

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Speaker 1: kids are much more likely to listen to anybody but us,

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Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that we are the quote

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Speaker 1: unquote and maybe because, but I think most of all,

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Speaker 1: just say hey, here's the information. What do you think like?

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Speaker 1: Show respect for her intelligence by inviting her into the

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Speaker 1: conversations rather than lecturing at her.

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Speaker 3: What's your third strategy?

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Speaker 1: We had this experience with our year ten daughter and

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Speaker 1: it was just so perfect. There was a school assignment

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Speaker 1: that was given out that was very well timed, extremely helpful,

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Speaker 1: and it was basically engage with. The assignment was that

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Speaker 1: our daughter had to engage with the argument that screens

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Speaker 1: are causing harm to young people and she had to

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Speaker 1: write an essay or do a report or something like

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Speaker 1: that talking about the and cons for screens for kids.

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Speaker 1: And she just engaged with that differently because it was

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Speaker 1: the school assignment rather than us telling her no or

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Speaker 1: preaching at her. So when the school makes it easy

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Speaker 1: for you by giving you an assignment or giving your

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Speaker 1: daughter an assignment, that's great because she becomes the expert.

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Speaker 1: You can even ask her to present the information of

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Speaker 1: the family. If the school isn't doing it, maybe you

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Speaker 1: can create some informal research opportunities at home and invite

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Speaker 1: her to put together a powerboak presentation making the arguments

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Speaker 1: for and against.

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Speaker 3: Because Lily goes to an industry school, so she's been

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Speaker 3: in placement for the last five weeks, she hasn't yet

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Speaker 3: experienced the new rules that have come in for this term,

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Speaker 3: but when she arrives at school next Monday, she has

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Speaker 3: to hand a phone in from age thirty to three.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, And state schools around the country

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Speaker 1: now have all got that rule.

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Speaker 3: And I love that schools are starting to recognize the

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Speaker 3: immense distraction and challenge that having a phone in your

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Speaker 3: pocket all day, every day is having on our kids,

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Speaker 3: and specifically on their learning experience.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's wrap this up, Nick. I think you're

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Speaker 1: doing the right thing. We think you're doing the right thing.

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Speaker 1: This is valuable, it's important. It's also worth the struggle

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Speaker 1: on the pot. A couple of months ago, we talked

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Speaker 1: about a recent study showing people using phones without the

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Speaker 1: internet improve their well being over a two week period.

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Speaker 1: We shared that with our fifteen year old daughter, and

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Speaker 1: that research evidence shifted her. It may or may not

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Speaker 1: work for anyone else, but it worked for our daughter.

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Speaker 1: It's not about keeping her offline forever. It's about reducing

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Speaker 1: access to the most addictive elements during these crucial stages

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Speaker 1: of development. And I think that so long as so

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Speaker 1: long as buying happens, you're much more likely to get

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Speaker 1: positive outcomes. When she understands the decision, you get good outcomes.

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Speaker 1: If she doesn't understand the decision, you just get rebellion,

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Speaker 1: you get resentment, you get a NonStop relationship breakdown. It's

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Speaker 1: just such hard work. So we're really trying to build

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Speaker 1: understand over time. One last thing that I'll say, and Kylie,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that you'll have something to add to this.

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Speaker 1: It never goes away. Like once she has the phone,

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Speaker 1: the arguments continue, but now the argument isn't about whether

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Speaker 1: or not she wants one and can have one. Now

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Speaker 1: the argument is you need to get off the device.

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Speaker 1: You're on it too much, so you get to pick

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Speaker 1: your pain.

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Speaker 3: I think about so many of the conversations we've had

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Speaker 3: with the children with a desirable outcome in mind, and

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Speaker 3: yet as we've worked with our children and they've come

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Speaker 3: to us with their concerns, with their you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of thinking outside the box solutions, we've found ourselves agreeing

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Speaker 3: with them or acquiescing on the hard line that we

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Speaker 3: may have wanted to hold because they've actually been really

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Speaker 3: wise in their response, and it hasn't been about arguing

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Speaker 3: their case. It's been about having this really wonderful, enlightening

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Speaker 3: conversation where we get to work together come up with

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Speaker 3: a solution that actually feels good for both of us.

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Speaker 3: But the reality is, even though you might have that experience,

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Speaker 3: you're still going to revisit that conversation.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, you open up the box though,

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Speaker 1: and it's just enduring. It is an enduring conversation. I

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Speaker 1: really hope there's been a helpful conversation for you, though, Nick,

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Speaker 1: and good luck as you continue to fight the good fight.

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Speaker 1: If you have a tricky question for us and want

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Speaker 1: to be featured on the pod Happy families dot com

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Speaker 1: dot you go to podcasts, click the button start talking,

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Speaker 1: or send us a voice notes to podcasts at happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com dot au. The Happy Families podcast is

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Speaker 1: produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides research,

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Speaker 1: admin and other support. If you would like to make

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Speaker 1: your family happier, and if you would like more information

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Speaker 1: about how to have these conversations, specifically, check out The

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Speaker 1: Parenting Revolution. It's available wherever you buy your books, or

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Speaker 1: visit us at happy families dot com. A