1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Oz. It is Friday, 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: the seventeenth of June, the end of another week, and 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: on today's episode we're talking about whether retailers are tracking 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: you through facial technology. Stick with me here, it's an 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: interesting one and it garnered quite a lot of attention 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: on our Instagram page. So we're going to take you 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: through all that you need to know about that. But first, 8 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: there was big coal mine news yesterday. 9 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Sam Baby. It's coal outside New South Wales's biggest coal 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: mine will close by twenty thirty after a suitable buyer 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: wasn't found for the site. The Mount Arthur coal mine 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: currently employs two thousand people and is approved to continue 13 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: operations until twenty twenty six, though an extension until twenty 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: thirty is expected to be requested. Mining magnate BHP has 15 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: said it will take ten to fifteen years to close 16 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: and rehabilitate the site, and has allocated seven hundred million 17 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: US dollars for the mine's closure. 18 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: The economic news doesn't stop. Yesterday we got the latest 19 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: figures from the ABS about unemployment and that has remained 20 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: steady at three point nine percent, while underemployment felt five 21 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: point seven percent in May, a fourteen year low. It 22 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: means that ninety six point one percent of people wanting 23 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: work found at least one hour of work, while ninety 24 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: four point three percent have as much work as they 25 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: want to. Two. 26 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 2: Australian Politics now and longtime Liberal Senator Eric Abbetts has 27 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: lost his seat in Tasmania. Abets, who has been the 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: Senator for Tasmania since nineteen ninety four, lost his seat 29 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 2: to Tammy Tyrrel, who ran for fellow Tasmanian Senator Jackie 30 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 2: Lambe's party. Taking to Twitter after the final count, Tyrrel 31 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: said quote, you have no idea how surreal this feels. 32 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: And finally some good news to wrap the week. A 33 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: research team based out of Israel has developed a new 34 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: treatment for AIDS. The treatment would allow people with AIDS 35 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: to be tendered to with just one vaccine dose, and 36 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: the technology is based on a bacterial immune system against viruses, 37 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: which locates viral sequences and disables them. 38 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: When you walk into your nearest retailer, what information are 39 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: you giving the store owner? It's an interesting one. We 40 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: know that our purchases attract by companies like credit card 41 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 2: companies and banks, and that's where we get a lot 42 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: of analysis about the spending patterns of Australians, but what 43 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 2: else is recorded in those environments? Zia. There's been a 44 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 2: lot of news this week about surveillance and it all 45 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: stems from an investigation by Choice magazine. Ultimately, the findings 46 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: were quite concerning and relates to our privacy. Let's start 47 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: with what exactly this investigation was about and what it found. 48 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: Good place to start. So this investigation was conducted by 49 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: Choice and Choice is Australia's independent, nonprofit consumer advocacy organization. 50 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: That is a mouthful, but basically they are advocating on 51 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: behalf of consumers. So the investigation began after Choice received 52 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: a tip off from one of its members about facial 53 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: recognition at Kmart, which prompted a deeper probe into the 54 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: use of technologlogy by retailers across the country. Now, there 55 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: were some pretty major findings there. They found that three 56 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: major retailers, including Kmart, were using facial recognition in their stores. 57 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: The other two were Bunnings and Electronic Retailer the good guys. 58 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: And was this some sort of stealth mission from Choice? 59 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: How did they find out that our faces were being recorded? 60 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: So It all came to light after Choice asked twenty 61 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: five major Australian retailers if they use facial recognition technology 62 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: while also analyzing their privacy policies. Following the investigation, Kate Bauer, 63 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: who is the consumer Data Advocate at Choice, said that 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: most of the privacy policies of these retailers are online, 65 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: meaning that it's pretty unlikely that anyone going into these 66 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: shops would be reading that privacy policy. I know, for 67 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: one that when I enter a shop, I'm not standing 68 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: out the front reading their privacy policy before I walk in. 69 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: Can't imagine there are many people who do do that. 70 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: But some of these stores were also visited by Choice 71 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: staff members to actually look at the physical signage at 72 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: each store informing customers of the facial technology being used. 73 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: The signs were found to be small, in conspicuous and 74 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: highly likely to be missed by most walking into the store, 75 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: meaning that many customers would be unaware of the facial 76 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: recognition technology while shopping. 77 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: So as a frequent visitor to shops like Kmart, that's 78 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: where pretty much my whole home is decked out from 79 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: Bunning's warehouse, I love a sausage. I am undoubtedly part 80 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: of this facial recognition database, and I had no idea. 81 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: So if Choice found the most customers like me weren't 82 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: aware of our faces being captured at these stores, I 83 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: can't imagine that actual customers would have been too pleased 84 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: with this revelation. 85 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: As part of the investigation, Choice spoke to over one 86 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: thousand Aussies earlier this year to understand the awareness and 87 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: the responses to these allegations of using facial technology. The 88 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: results showed that about three quarters seventy six percent to 89 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: be exact, of respondents said they didn't know that retailers 90 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: were using facial recognition, with the practice being labeled as 91 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: quote creepy, in vaive, and unnecessary and dangerous by some. 92 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: About eighty three percent of respondents believed that retail stores 93 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: should inform customers of facial recognition use before entering the store, 94 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: while seventy eight percent expressed concern for the safety and 95 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: security of the data. 96 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: And after these findings have come to light, have we 97 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: heard anything from the retailers at the center of these allegations. 98 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: We've heard from Bunnings, but both Kmart and the Good 99 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: Guys haven't provided an explanation as to why they use 100 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: the technology. If we go to Bunnings, Bunning's Chief Operating Officer, 101 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: Simon McDowell said that they use the technology for safety 102 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: and security purposes as it helps quote identify persons of 103 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: interests who have been previously involved in incidents of concern. 104 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: The COO maintained that the technology is quote an important 105 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: measure in preventing theft or anti social behavior that would 106 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,559 Speaker 1: protect their staff and customers. It is also worth noting 107 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: here that the Good Guy's Privacy Policy, which is found online, 108 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: acknowledges its use of facial recognition, said to be used 109 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: for the purposes of security and theft prevention and managing 110 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: slash improving customer service. Kmart also does use physical signs 111 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: outside its stores to inform customers of its facial recognition technology, 112 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: but as we said a bit earlier, these are tiny 113 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: signs that could be missed by many. 114 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: So the reasoning behind using this technology seems to be 115 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: split into two camps, loss prevention and improving the consumer experience. 116 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: Not quite sure what that means. Would this use of 117 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: facial technology be illegal in this context? 118 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: Well, if we go according to Choice, they think that 119 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: the collection of this facial recognition data, often without the 120 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: full understanding or consent of shoppers, could be in breach 121 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: of the Privacy Act. 122 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: Now. 123 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: The Privacy Act is Australia's principal piece of legislation and 124 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: it looks to protect the personal info of individuals. Crucially, 125 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: this also includes the collection, the use and the storage 126 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: of personal information in the private sector, which of course 127 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: covers businesses like Bunning's Cat and the Good Guys. So 128 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: Choice believes these retail businesses are quote disproportionate in their 129 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: over collection of this information, which means that they think 130 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: they could be in breach of the Privacy Act. Kate 131 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: Bauer from Choice also expressed concern over the future uses 132 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: of the data formed by the technology. Now Choice has 133 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: said that they will refer the businesses to the Australian 134 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: Information Commissioner, and that's a national regulator for privacy and 135 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: freedom of information, and that is over a possible breach 136 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: of the Privacy. 137 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: Act, Zara, Is this the first time that we've had 138 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: this kind of situation arise? 139 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: Last year the same Australian Information Commissioner that I just 140 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: mentioned actually found that seven eleven was interfering with customers 141 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: privacy by collecting facial data without adequate notice or consent. 142 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: As a result, seven eleven stopped the practice and they 143 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: destroyed the facial images that they had collected. 144 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: It's a story that does seem to have captured a 145 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: lot of people's attentions now for a couple of days, 146 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: and I wouldn't be surprised if it does get a 147 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: close examination by the Australian Information Commissioner. Was the perspective 148 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: of choice in line with other experts in this field. 149 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: Well. We spoke to Samantha Floriani, who is a privacy 150 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: expert at an advocacy organization called Digital Rights Watch, and 151 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: she told us that the Privacy Act specifically requires company 152 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: to gain consent from customers if they collect sensitive information. 153 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: So she said that signs at the entrances like we've 154 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: seen at kmart may not actually be sufficient to meet 155 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: this requirement. She said, and I quote, notice is not 156 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: the same as consent. She also raised concerns about the 157 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: ethics of this facial recognition technology, which she described as 158 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: deeply invasive. She said, and I quote it's well known 159 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: that the current facial recognition technology is riddled with biases 160 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: and inaccuracies, especially for people with darker skin tones. But 161 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: even if the tech worked perfectly, it still raises significant questions. 162 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: Now sam studies in the US have actually proven this. 163 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: So there was a study into facial recognition technology and 164 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: law enforcement that said that there was significant racial bias 165 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: associated with the practice. 166 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: It does seem to be a complex area of surveillance 167 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: that I think now at least we're all going to 168 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: be a little bit more aware of when we enter 169 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 2: these types of stores. That's all we've got time for 170 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: on today's episode of The Daily Ozz. We hope you've 171 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 2: had a fantastic week of news. If you need to 172 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: catch up with the news over the weekend, we will 173 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 2: be there on Instagram for you. Until then, we will 174 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 2: speak to you on Monday. Have a safe and happy weekend.