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Speaker 1: We have been speaking at length about the morale within

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Force and the issues with confidence

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory Police Commissioner. Now on Friday, further

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Speaker 1: insight was provided at the Northern Territory Police Association's annual conference.

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Speaker 1: And joining me on the line is the Police Association

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Speaker 1: President Paul mchughue. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Paul, wanting Catie here.

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Speaker 1: You going not too bad now, Paul, these issues with

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Speaker 1: confidence and morale having a big impact on the force.

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Speaker 1: What was the main message to come out of the

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Speaker 1: conference on Friday?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously there was plenty to speak about, and obviously

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Speaker 2: the Commissioner and the deputy Commissioners came along to our

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Speaker 2: conference on Thursday, and it was a really good opportunity

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Speaker 2: behind closed doors for everyone that was there representing the

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Speaker 2: members across the terriatory to really ask you some direct

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Speaker 2: questions of the Commissioner and the deputies in relation to

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Speaker 2: not just the survey results, but many other topical issues

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Speaker 2: that are affecting them in the workplace. So we had

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Speaker 2: some really good discussions of focusing a lot on you know,

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Speaker 2: why they're feeling, so you know down out there, why

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Speaker 2: is morale, So so why are they feeling like there's

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Speaker 2: just not enough police to do the job day in

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Speaker 2: and day out. And you know, it was a really

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Speaker 2: important session for us to open up and speak to

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Speaker 2: the commissioner quite frankly and.

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Speaker 1: Paul, you know what, what were some of those messages

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Speaker 1: that the rank and file had for the executive of

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Speaker 1: the Police Force.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously, you know, they made it quite clear

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Speaker 2: that they are very upset that they feel there's just

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Speaker 2: simply not enough police. Why when they turn up for

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Speaker 2: work they feel like, you know, day in and day out,

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Speaker 2: they're doing everything they can, and they are, they're doing

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Speaker 2: an incredible job. But when you really go to rely

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Speaker 2: on people doing over time every single day, you get

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Speaker 2: burnt out, and of course that begins to affect your health,

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Speaker 2: your well being, and then you know, obviously those discussions

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Speaker 2: flowed from there about what supports are in place when

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Speaker 2: that takes place. But you know that there there were

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Speaker 2: many other, obviously topics discussed, including the discipline process people

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Speaker 2: are being put through. I feel that's quite heavy handed

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Speaker 2: and punitive. Obviously, there was discussions around assaults on police

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Speaker 2: and how that's affecting people out there. Almost every day

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Speaker 2: getting assaulted and how that has an impact of course,

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Speaker 2: you know, on police and their morale and their well being.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, plenty to talk about, Paul.

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Speaker 1: Was the zach Rolf trial a topic this was raised

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Speaker 1: as well, and I'm interested to know to you know,

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Speaker 1: following on from that trial and officer training and whether

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Speaker 1: they feel that, you know, should something go wrong, whether

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Speaker 1: they're concerned that they do or do not still have

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Speaker 1: the support of the upper ranking officers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks certainly. You know, we went through some

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Speaker 2: of the survey results and when we talk about reasons

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Speaker 2: behind why people feel they didn't have confidence in the commissioner,

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Speaker 2: we went through some of the reasons behind that, and

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Speaker 2: of course one of the in fact they made the

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Speaker 2: number one reason was the management and communication relating to

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Speaker 2: that you and the more critical incident. Of course that

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Speaker 2: you can evolve into many different aspects of that incident,

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Speaker 2: but certainly a lot of the feed back and this

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Speaker 2: is not just from a conference, This is obviously since

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Speaker 2: the incident itself. People you know, obviously concerned when they

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Speaker 2: are out there making some really important spit second decisions,

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Speaker 2: they want to know they've got support, and of course

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Speaker 2: We've still got processes underway to flesh all that out now.

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Speaker 1: I think, really, you know, the really big question that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are wondering at this point in

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Speaker 1: time is it seems as though there is so much

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Speaker 1: reform that needs to happen in order for that morale

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Speaker 1: to be lifted, in order for officers to feel as

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Speaker 1: though there is enough of them to be able to

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Speaker 1: do their jobs. Do they believe that the Commissioner and

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Speaker 1: the executive of the Police Force at the moment are

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Speaker 1: able to lead them through that path.

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Speaker 2: Well, obviously the result said no. What we heard from

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Speaker 2: at conference was the Commissioner said he will listen. He

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Speaker 2: will be meeting with the NTPA on a weekly basis

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Speaker 2: to really understand, you know, the specific reasons behind that.

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Speaker 2: The Minister also addressed conference and made it very clear

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Speaker 2: to our delegates there and anyone else that was there,

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Speaker 2: that she needs to listen. She's having a real look

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Speaker 2: at some of these results in depth, and obviously having

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Speaker 2: a look at the agency itself and how it operates,

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Speaker 2: how people are deployed, where they're deployed. There's a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of work being done now and the Minister's committed

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Speaker 2: to making sure that happens, because, as we've rightly pointed

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Speaker 2: out a conference and previously, you know, something has to change.

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Speaker 2: You can't have a police force feeling so disenfranchised and

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Speaker 2: so disappointed with the commissioner. We don't want to see that.

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Speaker 2: We want to see people, you know, supported at work

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Speaker 2: and feeling like they're supported. So something certainly has to change.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But Paul, what is going to change because right now,

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Speaker 1: you know, you guys have you've got a situation where

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Speaker 1: obviously the Minister for Police is saying, you know, we

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Speaker 1: are going to listen. We're going to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we're listening. But you've got a force that is saying

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Speaker 1: that they don't have confidence in the Police Commissioner and

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Speaker 1: that you know, they've got all of these these large concerns,

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Speaker 1: but there doesn't seem to be any change come out

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Speaker 1: of the government.

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Speaker 2: No, And obviously, you know, one of the main things

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Speaker 2: we've got to do is stop people leaving. We've got

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Speaker 2: to really invest heavily into that high attrition rate, which

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Speaker 2: was one of the main reasons of low confidence, the

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Speaker 2: failure to retain our experience police here, and we are

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Speaker 2: looking at a very very competitive policing environment around the country,

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Speaker 2: and if we're not really doing everything we can do

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Speaker 2: to stop people leaving in the first place, then we're

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Speaker 2: behind the eight ball to begin with. So, yes, you're right,

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Speaker 2: something has to change, and we've made it clear of

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Speaker 2: conference it's going to be actions, not words, that actually

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Speaker 2: mean something to our members, and if they don't see

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Speaker 2: something really really quickly, then of course the feeling isn't

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Speaker 2: going to change. Now.

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Speaker 1: I know that the opposition leader Leofanocchiiro last week had

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Speaker 1: said on the show that she thinks there needs to

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Speaker 1: be an independent inquiry conducted by a former judge over

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Speaker 1: a thirty day period into the police force. Do you

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Speaker 1: think something like that needs to happen, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one at one of my comments in

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Speaker 2: my address to delegates and conference was you know, it

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Speaker 2: has been ten years since, you know, there was a

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Speaker 2: really depth review of policing and what it looks like

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Speaker 2: and what people have to do day to day while

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Speaker 2: they're at work. That's far too long look at what's

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Speaker 2: changed in that last decade, and certainly when we look

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Speaker 2: at that very high statistic from our survey around ninety

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Speaker 2: three percent saying there's not enough police. The main reason

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Speaker 2: for that they listed was the requirements that they have

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Speaker 2: to do each day at work. So clearly there is

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Speaker 2: a need to really have a look at that and

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Speaker 2: there needs to be some sort of review into what

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Speaker 2: they have to do every day yet alone the feeling

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Speaker 2: of a lack of numbers to actually do that job.

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Speaker 1: We know that the Member for Blaine, Mark Turner, had

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Speaker 1: said that he thinks there either needs to be a

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Speaker 1: Royal commission or a review. So where do you think

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Speaker 1: this should land, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, obviously you know, as I said, conference

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Speaker 2: was Friday. We've got a meeting with the Commissioner this week.

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Speaker 2: We've also got a meeting with the Minister this week

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Speaker 2: and we will make it quite clear as we did

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Speaker 2: on Friday and Thursday of last week. Something has to change.

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Speaker 2: There needs to be a real, in depth review into

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Speaker 2: what's going on in the Northern Territory Police Force. We

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Speaker 2: want commitments, not just words, but actual actions to make

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Speaker 2: our members feel like they do have that support each

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Speaker 2: and every day. And right now they don't.

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Speaker 1: Pull specifically from you, what do you what do the

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Speaker 1: members think needs to change here?

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Speaker 2: They need, first and foremost, they need a government that's

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Speaker 2: willing to back them with a decent amount of investment

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Speaker 2: into the actual reasons why people are leaving. So there

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Speaker 2: needs to be that review first and foremost. Secondly, there

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Speaker 2: needs to be an admission that things aren't right. There

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Speaker 2: needs to be an actual admission that things are not right,

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Speaker 2: and we want to look very very closely at why.

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Speaker 2: And then thirdly, of course, as I said, we've got

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Speaker 2: a very competitive market. You're not going to offer a

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Speaker 2: decent pay able to stay here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: You're not going to offer the actual incentive to make

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Speaker 2: sure you want to come to work every day, and

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Speaker 2: that is support and that he's numbers which all reflect

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Speaker 2: on morale and safety. Then we're in a world of

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Speaker 2: pay but those are they're the things that need to change.

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Speaker 1: Paul, Do you believe that the current Police commissioner is

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Speaker 1: able to lead the Northern Territory Police Force through this change?

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Speaker 1: Can he stay in that job?

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Speaker 2: Well? Time will tell on that. We've made it very

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Speaker 2: clear and I said it in my statement last week.

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Speaker 2: If things don't change, his position may become untenable. Right now,

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Speaker 2: he's committed to actually listening, he's committed to actually having

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Speaker 2: a look at these results in depth, and we'll provide

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Speaker 2: many reasons behind the eighty percent no confidence vote. And

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Speaker 2: it's up to him only he can make that change.

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Speaker 2: He's the leader of the organization and he knows loud

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Speaker 2: and clear from the feedback from our delegates last week

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Speaker 2: that it's up to him and he'll need to make

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Speaker 2: that change.

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Speaker 1: Well, what do you think is going to happen if

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Speaker 1: there isn't some pretty immediate change, Like if we don't

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Speaker 1: see the Police Minister come out and say, okay, we

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Speaker 1: are going to have a review into the police force,

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Speaker 1: or we're going to do those various things that you

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Speaker 1: just outlined, what do you think is going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to see a situation where our Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory police start to take industrial action, or what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen here?

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Speaker 2: Well, there was a very strong sentiment around the table

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Speaker 2: last week that members have had enough and if they

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Speaker 2: don't see some results, if they don't see some firm commitments,

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Speaker 2: absolutely there will be discussions had about what that means

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Speaker 2: in the coming months ahead. Because we've been going down

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Speaker 2: this path for a long time. We've been raising a

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Speaker 2: lot of these issues for over twelve eighteen months up

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Speaker 2: to two years, and we know they've gone through a

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Speaker 2: very difficult time. I've said that last week. It's been

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Speaker 2: a tumultuous time over the last two or three years.

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Speaker 2: But absolutely the message was key last week. The members

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Speaker 2: have had enough and they're not going to stand for

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Speaker 2: it anymore, and they've voice has to be heard. If

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Speaker 2: you've got to ignore a thousand members of the police

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Speaker 2: force who took the time to participate in our survey,

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Speaker 2: you're ignoring the police force and that is the last

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Speaker 2: thing the community need. We want police out in the

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Speaker 2: community and right now they're feeling like this is simply

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Speaker 2: not enough.

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Speaker 1: Paul mcute, I really appreciate your time this morning. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for having a chat with us, and

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Speaker 1: thanks very much for talking us through what had happened

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Speaker 1: at the conference last week.

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Speaker 2: Good onion, Thanks Katie, thank you