Speaker 1: Once a high flying minister, now a broken man.
Speaker 2: It was a significant error of judgment on my part,
Speaker 2: but it was an honester.
Speaker 3: In two thousand and nine, he was found guilty of
Speaker 3: corruptly receiving secret commissions and jailed for seven years. In
Speaker 3: twenty ten, he was found guilty on five charges of
Speaker 3: official corruption and five charges of perjury and jailed for
Speaker 3: an additional seven years.
Speaker 2: And there's a whiteboard there and it's got Operation gum
Speaker 2: Nat and the officer said that's you.
Speaker 4: And he said, and this is the plan to get
Speaker 4: you out of here.
Speaker 2: My name is Gordon Nuddle and this is my story.
Speaker 3: The man behind the Rose Episode four. Hello, my name's
Speaker 3: Patrick Condrey. Disgraced former Beaty government minister. Gordon Nattle has
Speaker 3: spent six years in jail, more than five of those
Speaker 3: in maximum security, with the worst of the worst. But
Speaker 3: that nightmare is about to end with the innovatively named
Speaker 3: Operation gum Nut and the impact on his children and
Speaker 3: grandchildren of his guilty verdicts and time behind bars. For
Speaker 3: the first time, Lisa Nuttle and her brother Andrew speak
Speaker 3: publicly about the impact on themselves and their families since
Speaker 3: their father was locked away. More than fourteen years ago.
Speaker 3: Gordon Nuttle has not been paid for taking part in
Speaker 3: this podcast. After almost a year at Palin Creek Prison Farm,
Speaker 3: following more than five years in maximum security, Gordon Nattle
Speaker 3: was eligible fool parole.
Speaker 2: When my parole was granted, there was a problem. I
Speaker 2: got a call from the manager to come down to
Speaker 2: his office and I went down and but no one
Speaker 2: goes to see the manager, you know.
Speaker 4: And I get invited in and hello, Gordon, how are you?
Speaker 4: And please sit down? I thought, I'm an inmate. What's
Speaker 4: going on here? You know?
Speaker 2: And he said, we've just heard on the radio that
Speaker 2: your parole has been approved.
Speaker 4: He said, we haven't been advised.
Speaker 2: And he said, we've just said on the Macquarie radio
Speaker 2: that it's been approved. He said, I've got no other
Speaker 2: information I can give to you at this time, he said,
Speaker 2: but all the details are being released on air as
Speaker 2: we speak. I said, okay.
Speaker 3: Come as a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 2: Well it was, because what happened was after that I
Speaker 2: went back to my dormitory and we had a TV
Speaker 2: screen up on the wall and there it is splashed
Speaker 2: all over the TV. But I've been groud in my
Speaker 2: parole what the conditions of my parole were.
Speaker 4: The whole box and.
Speaker 3: Dice Gordon Nuttle is about to walk free.
Speaker 4: So he was quite embarrassed by that.
Speaker 2: So obviously then the media were aware of the date
Speaker 2: I was to be released, so they had to devise
Speaker 2: a plan to get me out of there.
Speaker 3: So the prison authorities had to devise a plan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the prison authorities wanted to devise a plan to
Speaker 2: get me out of there because they don't want the
Speaker 2: media hanging around a prison farm, and that makes a
Speaker 2: lot of sense.
Speaker 4: So he called me back down.
Speaker 2: He said, right, you're going to be released at one
Speaker 2: minute past twelve in the morning. We worked out a
Speaker 2: plan to get you out of here. He said, we
Speaker 2: expect the media to be down at the front gate,
Speaker 2: and they arrived the afternoon, the Sunday afternoon. The media
Speaker 2: arrived Sunday afternoon would have been freezing cold that night,
Speaker 2: tell you. And he said, so we're going to get
Speaker 2: you out of here one minute after midnight, which is
Speaker 2: ironic because that's when my parole finished yesterday, one minute
Speaker 2: up to midnight. So about quarter to twelve that night,
Speaker 2: prison officer came and got me from the dormitory took
Speaker 2: me down to the main office where my clothes were,
Speaker 2: and there's a whiteboard there and it's got operation gum Nut.
Speaker 4: On the board and the officer said that's you. And
Speaker 4: he said and this is the plan to get you
Speaker 4: out of here.
Speaker 3: A well oiled machine.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they had a prison guard down at the
Speaker 2: front gate chatting to the medias at cord to twelve
Speaker 2: ten to twelve at night. I got changed. It took
Speaker 2: me out this back gate and then we headed towards
Speaker 2: New South Wales border and then there was a message
Speaker 2: on the two way to turn around. So the cards
Speaker 2: you two him and heads back towards Bodesert. So it
Speaker 2: just looked like a car was traveling in the night,
Speaker 2: going past media is being chatted up by the person.
Speaker 3: Did you drive past the meeting?
Speaker 2: We drove straight past and the prison officer said, no waving,
Speaker 2: no worry about that.
Speaker 4: So we drive along and we get.
Speaker 2: Past the township of Wrathdowney and there's a police station
Speaker 2: there and once we got past that, there was another
Speaker 2: message on the two way all clear. So what they
Speaker 2: were going to do There was an arrangement with the
Speaker 2: police at Wrathdowney that if the media got hold of
Speaker 2: the fact that that was me in the car and
Speaker 2: they chased us.
Speaker 4: The cops were going to slop them. I don't know, I.
Speaker 2: Wonder what pretext, but that we're going to stop them.
Speaker 2: So they got me to Boy Desert, threw me out
Speaker 2: of the car. The guy you didn't throw me out me?
Speaker 4: Well, kid? So that was that was the release, my
Speaker 4: release from after six years and a few days or whatever.
Speaker 4: Are you.
Speaker 1: The best day except the birth of my children and
Speaker 1: my wedding, best out of my life was so exciting
Speaker 1: I'll never forget because we had it all planned and
Speaker 1: they were doing They called it Operation gum Nut was
Speaker 1: the name of this, the secret operation to get Dad
Speaker 1: out of Pale and Creek with as little fuss and
Speaker 1: media attention as possible. And we thought that was really funny.
Speaker 1: Operation gum Nut. Yeah, yeah, So we thought that was stuff,
Speaker 1: and we were so grateful to the people at Pale Creek.
Speaker 3: And you obviously got four warning that Gunnut was.
Speaker 1: Happening, so we knew what was happening. And the pickup
Speaker 1: time was at midnight at the Bow Desert Post offic
Speaker 1: and my brother I remember we were going to leave
Speaker 1: at eleven, so he came here and we tried. I
Speaker 1: tried to have a little sleep before because I'm an
Speaker 1: early bird, and I remember it was absolutely freezing that day.
Speaker 1: It was a day kind of like today, and it
Speaker 1: was a little bit yeah, just chili and stuff. So
Speaker 1: we were driving out. We were so excited and we're
Speaker 1: sitting there outside the boat as at post office, so
Speaker 1: there's no one around at midnight watching Mick Fanning get
Speaker 1: attacked by a shark. That was the day that Mick
Speaker 1: Fanning got attacked by the shark. My brother's watching the
Speaker 1: surfing and he said to me, oh my goodness, look
Speaker 1: at this. And we were watching it live happening, waiting
Speaker 1: for the car to come around. We didn't know what
Speaker 1: car hed bean or anything like that. And we're sitting
Speaker 1: there with our hoodies on and beanies, and we thought, gosh,
Speaker 1: we must look a site like sitting outside the boat
Speaker 1: as at post office in the middle of the night, and.
Speaker 3: The local coppers didn't.
Speaker 1: They did drive past at one point and we just
Speaker 1: kind of slumped down in our seats.
Speaker 5: It was so funny.
Speaker 1: We were laughing, but we were so excited, and then
Speaker 1: the car came that they were he was in it
Speaker 1: was like a little rab four or something, because I
Speaker 1: remember that's what they took him. They took him out
Speaker 1: to Pale and Creek in some similar car, and he
Speaker 1: thought he was really fancy. And I remember it stopping
Speaker 1: at the lights because a couple had stopped their prior
Speaker 1: and we'd sit up in our seats and no, not Dad,
Speaker 1: not Dard. And then finally this car came around and
Speaker 1: it slowed down and it did a yew in it
Speaker 1: pulled up beside us, and oh my goodness, we jumped
Speaker 1: out of that car and it was so exciting. Like
Speaker 1: I used to say that to Dad. I said, was
Speaker 1: in so much misery, but that day is going to
Speaker 1: be the best day, Like we're going to have the
Speaker 1: best feelings that day, and it was so exciting.
Speaker 6: I remember sitting watching the surfing in South African, seeing
Speaker 6: Mick Fanny get attacked by the shark, which was pretty
Speaker 6: I'll never forget that night, Holy shit, excuse me, sat
Speaker 6: out front of the post office there in Lisa's car,
Speaker 6: tinted windows or not knowing what the hell was going on,
Speaker 6: seeing a police car drive around us.
Speaker 4: They obviously knew what was.
Speaker 6: Going on, and he literally they pulled up behind us.
Speaker 6: He got out of the car and got in to
Speaker 6: our car and yeah, yeah, I just couldn't stop trying
Speaker 6: to hug him, and yeah, tears were flowing, and another
Speaker 6: another surreal moment. Just didn't realize it was happening right
Speaker 6: there and then.
Speaker 1: And I just got a brand new camera, so it
Speaker 1: had the bluetooth and the screen and everything. And Dad
Speaker 1: was amazed because before he went away, there was no iPhone,
Speaker 1: no iPod. So we used to explain all of this
Speaker 1: stuff to him, no bluetooth like that in a car.
Speaker 3: Then take the second exit.
Speaker 1: It was just amazed by the technology in the car
Speaker 1: and everything.
Speaker 5: And then did you hug him?
Speaker 1: Obviously, Oh my goodness, hugged cried. There was just it
Speaker 1: was just so exciting, you know. It was just and
Speaker 1: the guard was smiling, and he's just like, let's go,
Speaker 1: let's go home, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh without Yeah, I'm sitting in the back seat. And
Speaker 2: of course there's all new gateway motorway, and you know,
Speaker 2: and they are told gates are gone, you know, they're
Speaker 2: all gone.
Speaker 4: There's no doll gates there or anything.
Speaker 2: And she said, oh, now we're on the news section
Speaker 2: of the motor no bloody idea where we were, and
Speaker 2: there's this bloody car with a screen on it and naps.
Speaker 3: In it and all the rest of it must have
Speaker 3: been surreal. It was.
Speaker 4: It really was actually the fact that I was going home.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: By the time we got back to my daughter's place
Speaker 2: at Boondal, it was about halpus one.
Speaker 4: In the morning.
Speaker 2: I had to report at seven am to the prole office.
Speaker 2: And at five o'clock that morning, my daughter came and
Speaker 2: woke me up and said, she said, all the media
Speaker 2: are arriving and they're out in the front of our
Speaker 2: house across the road.
Speaker 4: And I said, okay, talk.
Speaker 3: To me about the emotions when you first got back
Speaker 3: to Lisa's house after a successful operation Gumnut.
Speaker 4: It was so, I said. We got to Lisa's bad
Speaker 4: upas one two o'clock. The little ones, Lisa woke them
Speaker 4: up and they're half asleep and they give grand the grandkids, yeah,
Speaker 4: three of them, three of the twelve give Granddad a
Speaker 4: hug and they went back to bed. And the son
Speaker 4: in law is there and he's dressing game. I got
Speaker 4: a photo somewhere him saying get ade of me.
Speaker 2: I've lost all this weight you know, I'm skinny as
Speaker 2: a rake and still not looking overly healthy, and a
Speaker 2: lot of tears and sort of an unreal feeling that
Speaker 2: you're actually home, but it wasn't home. I was with
Speaker 2: my daughter, but I didn't have a home. I'd sold
Speaker 2: that in our haste to destroy me, sold on my
Speaker 2: assets and took all that.
Speaker 1: We came back here, and we've got a grunny flat downstairs.
Speaker 5: We'd kidded that all out for Dad, so prior.
Speaker 1: To him coming home, the parole board had to come
Speaker 1: and approve that he would be living here. So they
Speaker 1: had to come and do an inspection of that place
Speaker 1: and everything and ask and talk to us and look
Speaker 1: at the flat. But we decked it all out and
Speaker 1: had filled the pantry with all his favorite things.
Speaker 3: And what are his favorite things?
Speaker 1: Oh, just like I had things like tim tans, and
Speaker 1: like he loves dark chocolate, and all those things he
Speaker 1: didn't have while he was there, not that he was.
Speaker 1: Took much to please him, because you know, you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't get a lot while you're away. And I'd
Speaker 1: done the bathroom and I had you know, his deoda
Speaker 1: and toothbrush, all of that nice nice body wash and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And I remember we put the
Speaker 1: garage door up and my husband was standing there in
Speaker 1: his flannel at pajamas and his dressing gown, looking at tree.
Speaker 1: And we've got this great photo of them shaking hands
Speaker 1: and this joy on Dad's face, you know, And then
Speaker 1: we went in and we.
Speaker 5: Just had all had a copper and just talked.
Speaker 1: And it was so nice. My kids were all still asleep.
Speaker 1: Then we tried to get a little bit asleep, but
Speaker 1: we were just buzzing. And I remember I must have
Speaker 1: gone to bed about three o'clock, and at four o'clock
Speaker 1: I heard a door slam and I looked out my
Speaker 1: window and the media had started arriving. And by five
Speaker 1: o'clock both sides of the street were absolutely packed with media.
Speaker 1: So we just pulled all our blinds down, and Dad
Speaker 1: came up, and then the kids got up and they
Speaker 1: were so excited. And I've got this beautiful photo of
Speaker 1: my eldest her bedrooms, just their dad knocking on her door.
Speaker 1: And see she's a redhead, and my dad's a red head,
Speaker 1: so she's kind.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't know because he know.
Speaker 1: What is Yeah, he's ball now, But when she's always kind,
Speaker 1: of been the favorite because of the red hair. I
Speaker 1: reckon and he knocked on the door and he open
Speaker 1: I've got this beautiful photo of the two of them hugging.
Speaker 5: It's just it was such a joyful day.
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example of how tough it is,
Speaker 2: or not tough, but how overwhelming it was. I had
Speaker 2: to report to the prole office at seven am, and
Speaker 2: that was to avoid the media again, but they are
Speaker 2: out front of Liss anyway, and.
Speaker 3: At this stage you're not allowed to talk to the meeting,
Speaker 3: not at all. You've been forbidden from talking to the
Speaker 3: media for fourteen years.
Speaker 2: That's as part of my parole conditions. And if I
Speaker 2: spoke to the media, I would break it. My parole
Speaker 2: would cancel my prole and probably return me to jar.
Speaker 2: So it's pretty serious stuff. So I'll get to the
Speaker 2: pro office at Champs, I'd sign all the documentation come out.
Speaker 2: And my son said to me, he said, let's go
Speaker 2: and get something deep. So in the usual now Australia,
Speaker 2: we went to McDonald's and at McDonald's have got these
Speaker 2: screens where you punch in your order. I'd never seen
Speaker 2: that before, so I didn't have a clue what that
Speaker 2: was about. I went to the men's room and then
Speaker 2: I went to wash my hands. I couldn't find tap
Speaker 2: because it's all censor and I didn't know that. So
Speaker 2: I'm looking for a tap. I can't find out how
Speaker 2: to wash my hands, and I knew that there was
Speaker 2: something that would make this thing work. I finally worked
Speaker 2: that out, and then there was this dryer where you
Speaker 2: put your hands down, so I didn't know. I'd never
Speaker 2: seen one of them before, and I just started thinking,
Speaker 2: how am I going to function?
Speaker 4: How am I going to function? And it was really scary.
Speaker 2: So we go to the driver's license Department of Transport
Speaker 2: to give my driver's license and I go in and
Speaker 2: you need three forms of ID. I'd managed to get
Speaker 2: a Medicare card before I was discharged from prison, and
Speaker 2: that's all I had. My license had expired, so that's
Speaker 2: not considered a current form of identification, and that is
Speaker 2: all I had. So I've got a letter from with
Speaker 2: my photo on it, my release.
Speaker 4: Letter from Chart.
Speaker 2: So I show that to the lady and she said,
Speaker 2: mister Nodle, we know who you are. We know who
Speaker 2: you are, but that's not acceptable idea either. So you
Speaker 2: need three forms of ID. You've got one, I said,
Speaker 2: I haven't got an electricity account. I haven't got a
Speaker 2: rate to notice I've got She said, we need to
Speaker 2: know where.
Speaker 4: You're living, you know.
Speaker 2: And I understand that she's only doing a job, and
Speaker 2: she's actually a little bit upset for me. And I'm
Speaker 2: getting frustrated, frustrated and upset and upset, and my daughter
Speaker 2: she put her arms around me. She said it'd be
Speaker 2: all right, dad, You're right. And the lady said, look,
Speaker 2: let me go and talk to my supervisor. So the
Speaker 2: supervisor come over and she said, hi, mister Nuddle, how
Speaker 2: I mean they are really good people, really polite, said
Speaker 2: I understand we've got a problem, and I said yeah.
Speaker 2: And I said, but I need my license. I said,
Speaker 2: I want to be able to get around. And she said, okay,
Speaker 2: So I'm going to ask you a few questions and
Speaker 2: if you answer them correctly, we'll be able to get
Speaker 2: over the hurdle and I can authorize it. When was
Speaker 2: the last time I had a traffic infringement? And a
Speaker 2: couple of other questions. So fine that we got through
Speaker 2: all that and I got my life license, but it
Speaker 2: was really traumatic. It was all Lisa said, Dad, you
Speaker 2: were just stunned, and you look out of place. You
Speaker 2: look and you were looking around as if to say,
Speaker 2: what do I do? And I thought, I got home,
Speaker 2: and I thought, I've come from being a minister of
Speaker 2: the crown full of confidence.
Speaker 4: Good at what I do to this? To this, you know?
Speaker 4: And yeah, it was really hard, really really hard.
Speaker 1: And I took him to the Transport department to get
Speaker 1: his license, and he was just it was so hard
Speaker 1: because he's out in society. People were recognizing him at
Speaker 1: that point, and it was just a lot of stimulation,
Speaker 1: you know, you can imagine almost overwhelming, overwhelming, overwhelming. And
Speaker 1: then that night we had a roast because my cooks
Speaker 1: a great roast, and I remember we put a tarp
Speaker 1: hole and we had I've got a big back downstairs,
Speaker 1: big back outdoor area, and we put a tar hole
Speaker 1: and upside because there was still media and stuff there,
Speaker 1: and we put the tarp hole.
Speaker 5: Not they play cricket. And it was just a great,
Speaker 5: great day. So it was a really really good day.
Speaker 3: Do you think, given the day you've just described, do
Speaker 3: you think it was worth it to get new kids,
Speaker 3: in his words, into the property market.
Speaker 5: No, absolutely not. No, I would have rather rent for
Speaker 5: the rest of my life than deal with that. It was.
Speaker 1: It's so traumatic. I still have so much trauma. I
Speaker 1: have flashbacks every single day. There are things like even
Speaker 1: this morning, I was I felt sick, not because I
Speaker 1: was worried about you, but just remembering. There's not a
Speaker 1: day that goes by that I don't remember something.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: No, it was not worth it, not worth it at all.
Speaker 3: Do you think if he'd asked you before he made
Speaker 3: the arrangement with Telbert, would you have said yes?
Speaker 1: Probably not, because I don't like taking things from people
Speaker 1: in that way, like I wouldn't ask my dad for
Speaker 1: money in that respect. Or I would have said, no, Dad,
Speaker 1: don't worry about that. Well, you know, it's something for
Speaker 1: us to do as we get older, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean to be very honest, it wasn't even something i'd
Speaker 1: thought about at that point. I was single, I was
Speaker 1: living my best life. I was in my twenties. I
Speaker 1: you know, it was beginning of my career, and I
Speaker 1: was working at Mount Saint Michael's at that time and
Speaker 1: doing really well there. I was traveling, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: something I'd even considered buying a house.
Speaker 5: It was not even on my radar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would have said, no, Dad, don't worry
Speaker 1: about it, you know. And even now I would say
Speaker 1: the same thing, just because I wouldn't. I don't want
Speaker 1: that from my dad, Like it's not important to me.
Speaker 1: Stuff's not important to me. Wouldn't have mattered to me,
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, I would have said no. But
Speaker 1: if he insisted, I would have said, make sure you
Speaker 1: put it in the register. Isn't that the whole point?
Speaker 1: Put it in the register? You know, even though I
Speaker 1: understand why he didn't, But yeah, that would have saved
Speaker 1: a lot of heartache.
Speaker 3: Given all that you've been through, and if you can
Speaker 3: compartmentalize the emotion of it all, you've obviously done research
Speaker 3: into it and you're aware of the situation. Do you
Speaker 3: think he was guilty?
Speaker 1: No, No, I don't. I don't think he was guilty
Speaker 1: of a crime. I think he wanted to help his children.
Speaker 1: I don't ever think that he had intended to do
Speaker 1: anything for Ken Talbot. I don't believe that at all.
Speaker 3: Do you think he was unfairly treated because of who
Speaker 3: he was?
Speaker 5: Yes? I do, I really do.
Speaker 3: He took or he borrowed the money from Ken talbot
Speaker 3: to help you kids out. He was in maximum security
Speaker 3: for five years, prison farm for almost one, and then
Speaker 3: another eight years on parole. Was it worth it?
Speaker 6: No, I guess not. You could say that, Yeah, we
Speaker 6: didn't really didn't know what was going on until all
Speaker 6: this came out, So yeah, it's hard to say that.
Speaker 6: Yeah's a difficult question.
Speaker 3: Lisa said the other day that when he was first charged,
Speaker 3: he was offered a deal by the DPP. Yes, and
Speaker 3: as a family you advocated that he plead not guilty
Speaker 3: because he hadn't done anything wrong. Correct in hindsight, what
Speaker 3: would you say to.
Speaker 6: Him now we know how the system and the law works.
Speaker 3: Would say, take the deal?
Speaker 6: Definitely, because that seems to.
Speaker 4: Be the way to go.
Speaker 6: You just followed by their rules and you'll be looked after.
Speaker 6: You go against them and they will come at you
Speaker 6: all guns blazing.
Speaker 3: Do you feel he was hard done by.
Speaker 6: Extremely Yes, considering what goes on and what you see
Speaker 6: reported these days with people with certain politicians and that
Speaker 6: what they do and what they get away with and
Speaker 6: nothing even happens, so yeah, very much so. Especially the
Speaker 6: sentence is huge considering and knowing that they wanted to
Speaker 6: give him twenty one years, not just fourteen.
Speaker 4: He's pretty Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you think he did anything wrong?
Speaker 6: No? Probably a bit naive, that's about it really. I mean,
Speaker 6: I don't see how how he could have helped one
Speaker 6: of the richest men in Australia can Talbot with any favors.
Speaker 6: I don't think hen really needed favors. It was pretty
Speaker 6: well established as already. So yeah, no, not really, No,
Speaker 6: I don't think he's done anything wrong at all, just
Speaker 6: being a bit naive.
Speaker 3: I think what was the biggest surprise for you when
Speaker 3: you got out?
Speaker 2: The change in technology without a doubt, you know. I
Speaker 2: had to go and see a specialist and the specialist
Speaker 2: said to me, what's your email addressing? I said, well,
Speaker 2: I don't have one, and she said she kind of
Speaker 2: couldn't comprehend that because they send all their bills via email,
Speaker 2: you pay online, and I didn't know how to do
Speaker 2: any of that. So my daughter took me to We
Speaker 2: went to Chimpside Shopping Center, went into an Apple store.
Speaker 4: An iPad.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people these days would wish
Speaker 3: to be in that situation because of the technology.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the other side of the coin is, of course.
Speaker 2: Kind of overwhelming, but people had started to do banking online,
Speaker 2: so all the banking was online, and I really felt
Speaker 2: quite illiterate, to be honest, and it's kind you've got
Speaker 2: to learn. And I'm not a guy with a great
Speaker 2: deal of patients at the best of times. And my
Speaker 2: daughter said, Dad, you're going to have to learn to
Speaker 2: be patient.
Speaker 4: There is so much to learn. I got five years
Speaker 4: of tax returns.
Speaker 2: I got two letters from the tax office over two years,
Speaker 2: finding me for not doing.
Speaker 4: My tax treeto. So I had to write.
Speaker 2: To them and say, I'm kind of incarcerated at the moment,
Speaker 2: I can't do it, and no doubt they would have
Speaker 2: checked that to make sure that. So then they waved
Speaker 2: the fine. Next year, I've got another fine, so the
Speaker 2: same You know I'm here, so.
Speaker 4: I get out.
Speaker 2: I've got five years of tax ree terms to do.
Speaker 2: The Public Trustees is still controlling my money and charging
Speaker 2: me an arm and a leg for a period of
Speaker 2: six six years while I was inside, and I didn't
Speaker 2: get control of my money for another two years from
Speaker 2: the Public Trustee. So over an eight year period they
Speaker 2: charged me over one hundred thousand dollars in fees and charges.
Speaker 2: Public trustee. That was a battle just to get control
Speaker 2: of my money again. So all these things when you
Speaker 2: get out just hit you in the face. And then
Speaker 2: you're getting your car to drive. Oh, all these new
Speaker 2: tunnels and oh, hop in that lane.
Speaker 4: And also you're in a dunnel before you know it,
Speaker 4: you know, So you've got to learn all that if
Speaker 4: you're driving around.
Speaker 3: And how old are you at this stage? Sixty two?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so you've got to As I said, you
Speaker 2: really feel quite illiterate, and it really is.
Speaker 4: For how do I do this?
Speaker 2: And I'm just lucky that I had people around me
Speaker 2: at the time who were able to guide.
Speaker 4: Me and help me and get me there.
Speaker 3: What was the worst of it?
Speaker 5: Uh oh, the worst part for me.
Speaker 1: There were so many bad things, but the worst part
Speaker 1: was the day they took him away. I'll never forget
Speaker 1: that day and that I can close my eyes and
Speaker 1: I can smell that room, I can see the colors,
Speaker 1: I can see those twelve people when they said guilty,
Speaker 1: because I had to say it, however many times. It
Speaker 1: was so many times I had to say it because
Speaker 1: of all the individual charges and the breath. I'll never
Speaker 1: forget the sound my dad made at that point because
Speaker 1: he was in the dock area and we were.
Speaker 5: Just behind him.
Speaker 1: There was a glass like a bustic partition, and I
Speaker 1: just collapsed on the chairs and they had to take
Speaker 1: me out, but I couldn't stand. I couldn't listen to
Speaker 1: the guilty that many times. And then I came back
Speaker 1: in and when they took him through that door and
Speaker 1: had him cuffed, we saw him get cuffed.
Speaker 5: That was the worst moment.
Speaker 1: And then the next probably forty eight hours until he
Speaker 1: was moved to Wolston, were really hard because he was
Speaker 1: in the watchhouse and it was just awful. It was
Speaker 1: the middle of winter and it was I was worried
Speaker 1: about things like is he warm enough.
Speaker 5: I rang the watchhouse and said, can we.
Speaker 1: Bring him in some clean socks and all sorts of
Speaker 1: you know things. What they said no to start with,
Speaker 1: and then they allowed. They said we can't give him anything,
Speaker 1: but then they allowed us. They said one of you
Speaker 1: can come in and see him, and so my husband
Speaker 1: went because he didn't want me to see Dad in there.
Speaker 1: It's like Dad had no shoes on and he was
Speaker 1: very distraught and just yeah, probably a way that I'd
Speaker 1: never seen my dad before.
Speaker 5: So that was probably the hardest.
Speaker 6: I was just sitting here thinking now, like when they
Speaker 6: took him away, it was they took our best friend away.
Speaker 6: Not only our father, but our best friend. That's what
Speaker 6: killed me the most, was that my mate was gone
Speaker 6: and I couldn't just go over and see him. I
Speaker 6: couldn't just just give him a call and ask him
Speaker 6: for advice or talk shoot the beeze about the football
Speaker 6: or cricket or what was going on. That was all gone.
Speaker 6: It was totally gone.
Speaker 3: Six weeks before his parole ends. Yes, he got a
Speaker 3: cancer diagnose, he did. How does that make you feel.
Speaker 5: I'm devastated.
Speaker 4: It's not fair.
Speaker 5: He's been through so much and now like he's at
Speaker 5: the end, he's about.
Speaker 1: To, you know, be free. Because you have to remember,
Speaker 1: he's been on prov for eight years. He hasn't been
Speaker 1: able to leave the state without permission.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: For the first many months, he couldn't go to the
Speaker 1: Bowls Club, he couldn't drink alcohol, he couldn't go there
Speaker 1: were so many restrictions placed on him that we had
Speaker 1: to fight for, even when he used to come and
Speaker 1: visit me down here. Once he finally moved to Woodgate,
Speaker 1: he had to get permission to come and see me
Speaker 1: and my kids and my husband.
Speaker 5: So it's unfair. It's just shit. It's shit because we.
Speaker 1: Finally got him back, and who knows what will happen now,
Speaker 1: because it's not good.
Speaker 5: It's stage four. It's not good, you know.
Speaker 1: And you learn to value like I value every minute
Speaker 1: I spend with my dad, you know, big lesson that
Speaker 1: you learn like this, those simple things. Every holiday is
Speaker 1: my kids and I go up there.
Speaker 5: We go up to see Dad. And to think that
Speaker 5: now that's tainted by this as well, Yeah, it's just shit.
Speaker 5: It's not fair.
Speaker 3: Do you think I know you're not a medical person,
Speaker 3: but do you do you think his diagnosis is in
Speaker 3: any way, shape or form linked to the amount of
Speaker 3: time that he spend in maximum security and the issues
Speaker 3: around them.
Speaker 1: I think the well, the oncologist has said that the
Speaker 1: oncologist and the urologist have both said that the cancer
Speaker 1: on his kidney has been there for over a decade.
Speaker 1: And I do believe that stress can do things to
Speaker 1: the body. There's no history of cancer in Dad's family.
Speaker 1: He is the healthiest person. You know that I know
Speaker 1: when you know when he was away he was working
Speaker 1: out he was so healthy, like, you don't drink, you
Speaker 1: don't do anything bad. You know, you don't need bad food,
Speaker 1: you don't do anything like that. He's seventy and he's
Speaker 1: got not on heart anything, blood pressure, medication or cholesterol
Speaker 1: and nothing like. He's so fitty, keeps up with my
Speaker 1: son who's so active, and his other grandsons.
Speaker 5: And yeah, but I do think.
Speaker 1: That that probably I can't help. But wonder if the
Speaker 1: stress had something to do with that, because I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: stress does things to the body. Yeah, and that makes
Speaker 1: me upset to think that, But who knows.
Speaker 4: He knows.
Speaker 3: The prognosis is good.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, it is if his body responds well, and
Speaker 1: hopefully it does. The immunotherapy is really good. I believe
Speaker 1: it's a really great treatment, and I've heard amazing things
Speaker 1: about it and I've read lots about it. So I'm
Speaker 1: hopeful that he's still got some good years left in him.
Speaker 5: And we've told him that.
Speaker 3: So but yeah, I just what was your first reaction
Speaker 3: when you heard?
Speaker 5: Oh, I just couldn't believe it. I sobbed because.
Speaker 1: When he had the lump in his neck, when he
Speaker 1: found the lump in his neck, straight away he made
Speaker 1: the appointment with his GP, and he said he was here,
Speaker 1: and he said, what do you think that is, you know?
Speaker 5: And I said, I probably assisted, like he knows.
Speaker 1: And even right up until the morning he went to
Speaker 1: get his test results back. He'd gone to the doctor
Speaker 1: at five thirty because his doctor starts at five because
Speaker 1: he likes to play golf at midday. So and his
Speaker 1: doctor's been he's my GP as well. He's been our
Speaker 1: GP for a long, long long time. And the appointment
Speaker 1: was five thirty, and it got to six thirty, and
Speaker 1: I leave for work about quarter to seven, and I
Speaker 1: said to my husband, this isn't good.
Speaker 5: This is not good. He should be home by now.
Speaker 5: He's not waiting it to see the doctor at five thirty,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 1: And then I had just I was my first day
Speaker 1: back at work. I'd just gotten finished a second round
Speaker 1: of COVID and he called me down to the flat
Speaker 1: ten minutes before I went to work and he told me,
Speaker 1: and I just cried, and I cried, and I cried,
Speaker 1: and I cried, and I cried, and I cried and
Speaker 1: I cried and yeah, and then I just said to him, well,
Speaker 1: we just got to do one, just like it was
Speaker 1: when he was away, I just said, we can't zoom out.
Speaker 5: You've just got to look at the next thing.
Speaker 1: We had just do the next thing, because if you
Speaker 1: zoom out, that will break you, you know. And that's
Speaker 1: how I felt when he was away. I couldn't zoom
Speaker 1: out to six years. I had to just look at
Speaker 1: the next week, what was ahead of us the next week,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's what I think we have to do. Now,
Speaker 1: Let's just see how things are after this first round
Speaker 1: of treatment, and then we'll you know, so.
Speaker 3: The real for mine anyway, looking at it from the outside,
Speaker 3: that you know, the lights at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 3: And he got, Gordon, your dad got this terrible diagnosis
Speaker 3: of a kidney camps.
Speaker 6: Yeah. That was another kick in the guts, wasn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 6: not good. Something that we definitely didn't expect because Dad's
Speaker 6: always looked after himself. He gets his six months checks,
Speaker 6: so he does all everything that he should be doing.
Speaker 6: Everything that you see on the TV in here, on
Speaker 6: the new you know, on the radio. You know, when
Speaker 6: you're at a certain age, you need to go and
Speaker 6: get this checked, you need to go and do this,
Speaker 6: do this, and he does that, and he does it
Speaker 6: like to the day. He basically when it's due. And
Speaker 6: I remember he called and I was at work and
Speaker 6: I couldn't take the call. About five minutes later, I
Speaker 6: checked my phone. It was a message saying, please call
Speaker 6: me and I need to talk to you, and something
Speaker 6: inside me then knew something had gone wrong, something was wrong,
Speaker 6: and I rang him and he asked me if I
Speaker 6: had a couple of minutes to chat and I said yes,
Speaker 6: of course, and he told me, and my whole body
Speaker 6: just basically slumped, sunk, and I just thought, what not again?
Speaker 3: You know what what now?
Speaker 4: Sort of thing?
Speaker 6: And I cried. I sat in my office at work,
Speaker 6: and as he cried, rang my wife and told her.
Speaker 6: I was in tears on the phone to her. But
Speaker 6: about an hour after it, after he told me, I was,
Speaker 6: I was walking at work and I thought myself, you
Speaker 6: know what stuff this we've he's I can say, weave,
Speaker 6: but he Dad has gone through Helen back. This is
Speaker 6: a walk in the park compared to what he's been through.
Speaker 6: And knowing he's fighting spirit and abilities that he can do,
Speaker 6: he will and we will get through this and they
Speaker 6: come out the other side again.
Speaker 3: What's the biggest toll. It's taken on you the whole
Speaker 3: from God way.
Speaker 1: My health, my mental health definitely. You know, I struggle
Speaker 1: with a lot of anxiety and depression and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of complex trauma there. So health is yeah, my
Speaker 1: physical health and mental health definitely.
Speaker 5: When I was very.
Speaker 1: Thin for a long time when Dad was away, just
Speaker 1: stress and I got really bad dermatitis on my hands,
Speaker 1: like I couldn't hold the steering wheel on my car.
Speaker 1: Just things like the gastritis and things like that. So
Speaker 1: the health definitely, the health, but also just being away
Speaker 1: from my dad and what he missed with my kids
Speaker 1: when they were little.
Speaker 5: That really that's sad.
Speaker 1: My sister got married in that time he missed that,
Speaker 1: so the things he missed were hard and I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't get that time back, and were more than
Speaker 1: made up for it now, you know. And I used
Speaker 1: to say to Dad, like one we'll sit on the
Speaker 1: deck and say, can you believe that happened?
Speaker 5: And we do. We do do that sometimes, you know.
Speaker 1: But I'm proud of my dad. He's so strong, so
Speaker 1: strong mentally. He used to say, like he'd buy himself
Speaker 1: a little treat once a week in there, he'd buy
Speaker 1: himself like a pack and of chocolate biscuits or something
Speaker 1: from when they did their buyaps. But he would only
Speaker 1: allow himself one day because he'd say, I need to
Speaker 1: keep my self discipline, like I need to keep my
Speaker 1: mind strong, you know. And that's inspiring, that's really inspiring.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so that's the biggest toll I think.
Speaker 1: And I just believe that those like I have bad
Speaker 1: dreams of him going back and stuff like, those things
Speaker 1: will never go away.
Speaker 5: I just you just learn how to manage them, you know.
Speaker 5: So yeah, that would be the biggest thing.
Speaker 3: What impact has his prison set it had on your sisters,
Speaker 3: yourself and your families.
Speaker 6: Well, I went through a huge depression where to the
Speaker 6: point where I couldn't wasn't even able to work, I
Speaker 6: couldn't get out of bed, struggled to eat any food.
Speaker 6: I lost extremely a lot of weight. I was down
Speaker 6: to like seventy six kilos and usually away eighty eighty
Speaker 6: something skin and bones basically.
Speaker 3: And at what stage did that affect you? Pretty much?
Speaker 6: Probably about a year after So a year after first
Speaker 6: sort of really that's when it sort of really sunk in,
Speaker 6: Like after all the appeals were knocked back and everything
Speaker 6: like that, because it was always I always hopeful that
Speaker 6: one of those appeals would have been successful and it
Speaker 6: just wasn't. And that's when it really hit. And yeah,
Speaker 6: mentally physically, I was grateful. Towards the end of the sentence,
Speaker 6: I met my now wife, which she was just amazing.
Speaker 6: She changed my life when I met her, pretty much
Speaker 6: turned it all around. The positives came back out for
Speaker 6: the brighter future type thing was there and I knew
Speaker 6: it was going to be okay. As for Lisa, my
Speaker 6: older sister, she struggled a lot because she was dumped,
Speaker 6: like she was lumped with all the work that had
Speaker 6: to be done behind the scenes. She was one doing
Speaker 6: it and I could see it affecting her. Same thing,
Speaker 6: just to stress the weight loss that you know, the
Speaker 6: testing times at home, all those sorts of things. You know,
Speaker 6: she had the three young children at toime. I didn't
Speaker 6: have children at the time, so in a way that
Speaker 6: was quite easy for me. But sister she was up north,
Speaker 6: so she sort of should come down when she could. Yeah,
Speaker 6: it definitely definitely took a huge toll on all of
Speaker 6: this a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what would you like the public to know about
Speaker 3: Gordon Nuttle. This is the man that dominated the headlines
Speaker 3: at the time for being charged for taking secret commissions.
Speaker 3: What would you like the public to know about Gordon Nuttle?
Speaker 6: The mean, I think a lot of the public and
Speaker 6: now understand what actually happened, especially with all the stuff
Speaker 6: that's going on around like in other states with the
Speaker 6: other politicians and all these little secret deals that you
Speaker 6: hear going on what have you, And they can see
Speaker 6: with this bit and think, oh my god, like this
Speaker 6: guy has been absolutely persecuted for what.
Speaker 3: What do you think the public should know about? Good
Speaker 3: and nut only me.
Speaker 1: He's the most loving father, grandfather, would do anything for anybody.
Speaker 5: He's just a really.
Speaker 1: Kind hearted person and family is the center of his life.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think people don't really understand. And
Speaker 1: even if you look back at what he did, it
Speaker 1: was all for his family.
Speaker 5: And that's what I think. Dad his whole.
Speaker 1: Like my memory of my dad growing up, he was
Speaker 1: the one like every Saturday or Sunday afternoon we're in
Speaker 1: the backyard playing cricket wrestling in the pool. Like he
Speaker 1: had to go away a lot for work, but he
Speaker 1: never ever we were the center of his world, center
Speaker 1: of his world. And we remain the center of his world.
Speaker 3: Andrew, when I've spoken to him, he talked about the
Speaker 3: biggest thing for him was not being able to ring
Speaker 3: you while you're in jail and ask for advice and
Speaker 3: have a chat talk about the foot.
Speaker 4: He talk about bolts really hard.
Speaker 2: There was a couple of difficult family times when I
Speaker 2: was away. You're only allowed a six minute phone call,
Speaker 2: but that includes the introduction. You know, this is called being.
Speaker 4: Recorded blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And there's one or two phones for every sixty guys,
Speaker 2: so divide that through the day. You don't get a
Speaker 2: chance to talk to the kids much. And if they
Speaker 2: do need help, and they do need advice, you can't
Speaker 2: give it to him. So being at home, the first
Speaker 2: thing I wanted to do when I got home was
Speaker 2: bond with my grandchildren, all of them, and reconnect with
Speaker 2: some people who I considered really close as friends.
Speaker 4: I've got some friends that I've known.
Speaker 2: Thirty forty years. You know, we're really it's about four
Speaker 2: or five of them. They used to come and visit
Speaker 2: me and support me and write me letters and all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. And Kim always said, my youngest daughter.
Speaker 2: She said, you belong back at Wegate. She said, the
Speaker 2: people up here I've.
Speaker 4: Always cared for you and always, you know, felt that
Speaker 4: you were part of the community up there.
Speaker 2: And every Christmas I would get a card just while
Speaker 2: you're in jail. Yeah, well I was away, I'd get
Speaker 2: a card signed by forty or fifty people from the
Speaker 2: balls club here we go, which was just beautiful.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: And so we made the decision that I was home
Speaker 2: at least as for about three months in Brisbane. So
Speaker 2: I had to apply to move residents peter Woodgate and
Speaker 2: they approved that. It took a bit of time, but
Speaker 2: they approved that. You know, my prior conditions were pretty
Speaker 2: restrictive and pretty onerous.
Speaker 3: Andrew also talked about the psychological toll that you being
Speaker 3: in jail took on him.
Speaker 4: Yes, I think I think I think some of my
Speaker 4: kids handled it a little bit better than others, but
Speaker 4: they all felt it. We're very look, I'm really close
Speaker 4: to my kids.
Speaker 2: I love my kids, and I suppose, you know, I
Speaker 2: got into trouble because I was trying to look after
Speaker 2: him and Ken. And Ken at the time understood that,
Speaker 2: you know, he'd been through one marriage and into another
Speaker 2: and he had children in both marriages, and Ken. Ken
Speaker 2: was just a kind person, you know, and we just
Speaker 2: talked about it and I said, I just want to
Speaker 2: get these kids into a home, Ken, you know.
Speaker 3: And given all you've said over the last a little while,
Speaker 3: and given what your kids have seen, if they had
Speaker 3: their time again, they wouldn't if they knew where the
Speaker 3: money was coming from, they wouldn't take it.
Speaker 4: No, of course, none of us.
Speaker 3: And you wouldn't. You wouldn't have asked how.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have asked Ken for it. And it was
Speaker 2: a it was an error of judgment. I have never
Speaker 2: I've never shied away.
Speaker 4: From that as an individual.
Speaker 2: But we're all ymman and we all get things wrong sometimes.
Speaker 2: But it was not It was not.
Speaker 4: It was not croment, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think most people understood that. People shook their
Speaker 2: heads in disbelief and that that it could have evolved
Speaker 2: into that. Again, it comes back to the processes and
Speaker 2: the systems that we have in place that you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes innocent people get a bad deal.
Speaker 3: Do you believe you were innocent?
Speaker 4: I know I was. I didn't have to believe it.
Speaker 4: I knew it, and I knew at my heart, and.
Speaker 2: Even up to the last day of the first trial,
Speaker 2: I honestly didn't believe that I would be found guilty.
Speaker 2: But coming back to life after being released after a
Speaker 2: few months, I came up to Woodgate and it's a
Speaker 2: great place for healing for me and still is. It's
Speaker 2: a small community. I was welcome back and open arms.
Speaker 2: It was just a wonderful feeling. I remember the first
Speaker 2: time I went to the Violin Green and had a
Speaker 2: little practice. One of the ladies came up and said
Speaker 2: welcome back and gave me a big hug. And that
Speaker 2: afternoon I went into the club because by then I
Speaker 2: was allowed to drink two point oh five. I went
Speaker 2: into the club and there's a big fellow there with
Speaker 2: Blake and coming game from behind, I mean this massive,
Speaker 2: big bound and said welcome back, you know. And it
Speaker 2: was just overwhelming, to be honest, And the people, the
Speaker 2: people of Woodgate and the Lawn Bowling Fraternity have helped
Speaker 2: heal me enormously. And the peace and serenity of Woodgate,
Speaker 2: and you can walk along the beach, you can go
Speaker 2: for a walk at night and feel safe, and.
Speaker 4: The beauty of the place all helps heal. The soul.
Speaker 4: And I remember one day I got on my bike
Speaker 4: and went for a bicycle riding. The next day one
Speaker 4: of the boys saw me and he said, he said,
Speaker 4: I saw you sitting on a chair looking out at
Speaker 4: the ocean yesterday, and he said, I thought a lot
Speaker 4: about you and how you must be feeling. I said,
Speaker 4: how does it feel, I said, at peace? You know, finally,
Speaker 4: you know I'm at peace.
Speaker 3: M The Man Behind the Rose podcast writer, producer and
Speaker 3: host Patrick Condren. Sound design and editing Mark Wright. Graphics
Speaker 3: by Jason Blandford. The Man Behind the Rose is a
Speaker 3: seven years production