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Speaker 1: First up this morning, we're going to be speaking with

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner.

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Speaker 2: He's in the studio already ready to join us.

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Speaker 1: And first off, I am keen to get an update

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Speaker 1: on the situation with those COVID restrictions. Will they be

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Speaker 1: lifted on Friday. I'm also keen to ask a few

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Speaker 1: further questions about the ikak's report into the Turf Club

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Speaker 1: and those revelations. This morning in the Northern Territory News

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Speaker 1: that the IKAK is set to be referred to the

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Speaker 1: Privileges Committee following allegations that well that the commissioner misled

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Speaker 1: budget estimates. Now, in a statement, the government has said

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Speaker 1: it expected a motion to refer mister Fleming to the

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Speaker 1: Privileges Committee would be put to the Parliament when it

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Speaker 1: sits next in August. The referral follows the now retired

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Speaker 1: mister Ken Fleming giving evidence to the Estimates Committee last month,

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Speaker 1: the same day that Matt Cunningham from Sky News revealed

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Speaker 1: the IKAK office was being investigated over an alleged conflict

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Speaker 1: of interest. Now the IKAK Inspector, Bruce McClintock has since

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Speaker 1: dismissed the complaint, but during that appearance in Estimates, the

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Speaker 1: IKAC commissioner said that he knew the source of the story,

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Speaker 1: claiming it was a disgruntled former employee who had made

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Speaker 1: a complaint after being told she was about to be sacked.

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Speaker 1: The Estimates Committee, though subsequently allowed the whistleblower's barrister, John

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Speaker 1: Lawrence SC to give evidence in response to mister Fleming,

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Speaker 1: and during that appearance on June twenty four, mister Lawrence

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Speaker 1: table documents that he said proved mister Fleming hadn't informed

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Speaker 1: his client her employment would be terminated until after she

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Speaker 1: made the complaint, and that mister Fleming had confirmed she

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Speaker 1: was a protective whistleblower before she was sacked.

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Speaker 2: Now, there is a lot.

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Speaker 1: To take in with this story, and also the report

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Speaker 1: in the paper this morning that reporter Jason Walls was

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Speaker 1: actually called before the IKAK more than a year ago,

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Speaker 1: pushing for him to reveal a source of a story,

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Speaker 1: something we as journalists would never do. However you look

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Speaker 1: at it, there are certainly questions now about the framework

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Speaker 1: in which the Office of the IQACK operates, and the

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Speaker 1: government has previously said the eye Kake is being reviewed.

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Speaker 1: But we'll talk a bit more about this shortly. I

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Speaker 1: think what every territorium wants is to know that it's

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Speaker 1: operating well in the way that they would expect. So

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Speaker 1: let's get into it, because joining me in the studio

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Speaker 1: right now is the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, you must be pretty pleased that we're in

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Speaker 1: the situation that we're currently in terms of the COVID situation.

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Speaker 1: Are we on track for lifting the restrictions on Friday?

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure pleased is the right word to thought

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Speaker 3: about this a bit. I'm obviously very grateful that we

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Speaker 3: trap the virus. Things are looking good, but more so

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Speaker 3: extremely mindful that businesses, casual workers, weddings, that a lot

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Speaker 3: of people got hurt on the way through in trapping

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Speaker 3: the virus. I'm very much aware obviously of the serious,

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Speaker 3: significant consequences that the virus have got loose. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: is that one where it's a bittersweet that we've got

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Speaker 3: to where we've got to. Territories are being magnificent, Things

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Speaker 3: are looking good. I can we're on track for absolutely

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Speaker 3: on track for lifting on Friday. At this day, it

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Speaker 3: appears that the lockdown worked. We trapped the virus and

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Speaker 3: we made sure there wasn't community spread. So that's all

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Speaker 3: important ticks. But I will not forget on the way

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Speaker 3: through that we're safe because a lot of people made sacrifices.

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Speaker 1: Now, when do you reckon these Territory Days celebrations are

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Speaker 1: going to happen. It is something that a lot of

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Speaker 1: listeners are wondering about.

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Speaker 3: So I don't want to jinx where we're currently at.

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Speaker 3: So this is the second year in a row we've

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Speaker 3: had a mess with Territory Day. Last year was canceled,

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Speaker 3: this year deferred. I want to get through this fourteen

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Speaker 3: day restriction before we get round to announcing new date.

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Speaker 4: We can celebrate Territory Territory Day and have a hell

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Speaker 4: of a party.

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Speaker 3: I want to celebrate too, but I feel that let's

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Speaker 3: just get through this current replication cycle, which expires essentially

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Speaker 3: one o'clock on Friday.

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Speaker 1: Let's just get through, get through that, and then make

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Speaker 1: an assessment on when Territory Day is going to happen.

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Speaker 4: Really don't want to jinx ourselves here.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: There is quite a bit to talk about this morning,

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Speaker 1: and last week we didn't really get the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: speak about the IKAK report into the Dar and Turf

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Speaker 1: Club grandstand. The Northern Territories Anti Corruption Watchdog made findings

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Speaker 1: of improper conduct against your former chief of staff, as

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Speaker 1: well as three members of the Dar and Turf Club

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Speaker 1: and a company director over the twelve million dollar government

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Speaker 1: grant for a new grand stand. Now, Chief Minister, can

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Speaker 1: I just ask you from the outset, why did the

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Speaker 1: government ever think that awarding this twelve million dollar grandstand

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Speaker 1: was a good idea?

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Speaker 3: So we accepted the argument that this would be good

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Speaker 3: for the territory economy to be in the short term

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Speaker 3: to create jobs and long term help grow the Cup Carnival,

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Speaker 3: which we can all agree is an ecoric driver for

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Speaker 3: the territory and proven draw card for territory, and so

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Speaker 3: we were always supportive of the idea of a grand stand.

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Speaker 3: We just wanted there to be an open and transparent

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Speaker 3: process about how we made that consideration. The report very

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Speaker 3: extensively goes through how Cabinet thought there was open and

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Speaker 3: transparent process occurring, how there wasn't an open and transparent

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Speaker 3: process occurring, and it details some deceitful behavior and officially

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Speaker 3: the findings of misconduct and the handling of that.

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Speaker 1: Now, we covered this extensively when the report was released,

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Speaker 1: but just to give our listeners some background. In June

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, the Northern Territory Government announced that twelve million

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Speaker 1: dollars of taxpayer dollars had been awarded to the Turf

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Speaker 1: Club to build a new corporate grandstand at Fanny Bay Racetrack.

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Speaker 1: Several months later, it emerged that the Turf Club's tender

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Speaker 1: panel awarded the construction contract to a company co owned

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Speaker 1: by Brett Dixon, who is also the chair of the

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Speaker 1: Turf Club. Now, following the decision, a Northern Territory government

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Speaker 1: investigation and an independent auditor both concluded that the decision

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Speaker 1: to give the contract to Jtech's construction was above board.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how did neither of these investigations identify any issues?

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Speaker 3: So the IKAC report actually goes into that in quite

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Speaker 3: a bit of detail, that we asked the right questions.

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Speaker 3: In this instance, the CEO of DTBI, done at the

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Speaker 3: Department Trade Business Innovation, asked the right questions of the

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Speaker 3: Turf Club, and as the report shows, a Turf Club

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Speaker 3: deliberately line to the CEO of the Department of Trade

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Speaker 3: business and innovation. If they taught us the truth at

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Speaker 3: that point in time, we could have actually taken the

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Speaker 3: money back. We were very concerned about that tender grant process.

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Speaker 3: We've since changed the rules around capitol grant so we

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Speaker 3: could take that money back if ever happened again. But

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Speaker 3: we could have actually done it at the time. And

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Speaker 3: as the report shows, there were deliberate lies told to us.

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Speaker 3: They told the same lies to the IQAC. The ICACK

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Speaker 3: asked the same questions that we did, but the IRECAC

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Speaker 3: has obviously quite extensive powers, was able to prove that

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Speaker 3: those were live.

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Speaker 1: The report found, though, that you and the cabinet approved

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Speaker 1: this twelve million dollars this grant well one day after

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Speaker 1: receiving the application from the Turf Club, which contained no

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Speaker 1: cost benefit analysis or no verifiable costings to explain the

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Speaker 1: price tag. How was the decision made by the cabinet

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Speaker 1: to award twelve million dollars without that information.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the larger parts of the report goes

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Speaker 3: into that in quite a bit of detail through.

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Speaker 2: The from your words, how did that happen?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, That's what I'm going to go into.

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Speaker 3: So the i CAT report actually goes into quite extensive

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Speaker 3: detail about how that occurred over the twelve months.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm asking you this morning, how on earth

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Speaker 1: without a cost benefit analysis or without verifiable costings to

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Speaker 1: explain that price tag, how did our cabinet, so the

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Speaker 1: Cabinet of the Northern Territory make a decision to award

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Speaker 1: twelve million dollars without that information?

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Speaker 4: I understand the question.

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Speaker 3: So the IKAC report shows the quite extensive process that

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Speaker 3: cabinet thought was occurring, and it goes into quite extensive

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Speaker 3: details about essentially the SAT and misconduct. So there's a

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Speaker 3: market lead proposal process that we believed it had gone into.

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Speaker 3: The market lead proposal process for what is genuine and

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Speaker 3: good reasons requires ministers to stand aside from that process

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Speaker 3: for probity purposes. We now have seen the consequence of that,

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Speaker 3: so we're changing the rules around market lead posal process

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Speaker 3: that there is a constant report back to ministers because

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Speaker 3: we are the ones that are held to account have

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Speaker 3: to make these decisions. So essentially it shows that the

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Speaker 3: misconduct and deceit that occurred where we felt a twelve

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Speaker 3: month process had happened, that the business case was essentially

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Speaker 3: verified or had been worked on a reperior toward months

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Speaker 3: and that's why there were finings of misconducts. So cabinet

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Speaker 3: made a decision based off bad information, and there's a

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Speaker 3: pro that's outline in quacs that details how that bad

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Speaker 3: information came into the cabinet.

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Speaker 2: Who took that proposal to cabinet.

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Speaker 4: I'm the chief Miness, I'm the chair of cabinet. I'm

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Speaker 4: responsive for.

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Speaker 2: Everything in cabinet, So you took it.

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Speaker 4: I'm the cabinet, I'm responsible for everything.

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Speaker 1: But very specifically, I'm asking who took the proposal to cabinet?

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Speaker 2: Was it you?

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Speaker 4: And I'm saying, I'm responsible for everything in cabin.

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Speaker 2: So you were the minister that took it to cabinet.

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Speaker 4: I'm responsible for everything in cabinet.

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Speaker 1: Was it a situation though, where it was something that

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Speaker 1: you know that you took in.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying to you, I'm the chief Minister, I'm the

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Speaker 3: chair of the cabinet. I'm responsible for everything in cabinet.

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Speaker 3: This was a cabinet decision based off a twelve month

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Speaker 3: process that's now been shown by the EYECAC to have

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Speaker 3: been a process that essentially there was deceit and misconduct

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Speaker 3: occurred over a period of twelve months that led to

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Speaker 3: bad information going to the cabinet room, and as the

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Speaker 3: Chief Instry and Chair of Cabinet, I take responsibility for that.

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Speaker 1: So it has been widely reported that you had no

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Speaker 1: knowledge of your former chief of staff, Al Leonardi, liaising

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Speaker 1: with the.

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Speaker 2: Chair of the Turf Club about this project.

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Speaker 1: Last week, though, Brett Dixon's legal team wrote to you

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Speaker 1: saying that your former chief of staff actively encouraged the

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Speaker 1: application for the twelve million dollar Northern Territory government grant

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Speaker 1: for the construction of the grand stand, because it was

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Speaker 1: enthusiastically supported by you.

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Speaker 2: Was that the case?

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Speaker 3: So this is all confirmed in the IKAC report, So

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Speaker 3: it's not just widely reported as a thorough investigation that

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Speaker 3: shows that I, amongst others, supported the grandstand. I've been

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Speaker 3: the public record saying I support the grandstand, but as

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Speaker 3: the report also shows, myself and others the whole cabinet

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Speaker 3: thought there was a process being conducted into that which

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Speaker 3: didn't actually occur.

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Speaker 1: So were there conversations between you and Brett Dixon about

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Speaker 1: this grandstand?

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Speaker 3: Yes, and that's also covered in the report itself. So

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Speaker 3: I've been on the public record saying I support the

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Speaker 3: grand stand.

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Speaker 4: It's not news. I support the grand stand.

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Speaker 1: You see how people though, would be thinking to themselves

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Speaker 1: right now, well, if you did have conversations with Brett

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Speaker 1: Dixon about that grandstand and you know, but then you're

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Speaker 1: saying that you know that that all of that information.

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Speaker 1: Your understanding was that then there had been that market

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Speaker 1: lead process had taken place, Like how did we then

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Speaker 1: end up in a situation where where now you know

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Speaker 1: you didn't know that detail.

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Speaker 3: So this is all thoroughly covered by the investigation eighteen months,

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Speaker 3: fifteen thousand documents, as a witness testimony, the market lead

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Speaker 3: proposal process means as Minister's with a step away. So

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Speaker 3: during that period of time we can't be involved and in

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Speaker 3: the conversations we can't talk about the grandstand, we can't

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Speaker 3: get involved in the process. So for twelve months ministers

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Speaker 3: stood out of the process. That is, in hindsight, an

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Speaker 3: error that can't happen again. We've made those changes so

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Speaker 3: that that's what that's what occurred, and the I can't

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Speaker 3: report goes quite extensibly into that.

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Speaker 1: The leader of the opposition, Leafinocchio, says, it is absolutely

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Speaker 1: mind blowing that you, as the chief minister, think you've

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Speaker 1: dodged a bullet following the release of the report when

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Speaker 1: the report ties you directly to corrupt behavior in your office.

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Speaker 1: She says, for three years, your chief of staff was

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Speaker 1: involved in backroom dealings to set up this twelve million

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Speaker 1: dollar tax payer funded project. So it is entirely implausible

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Speaker 1: that throughout those three years you had absolutely no knowledge

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Speaker 1: of any of the workings of the deal.

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Speaker 2: Is that entirely implausible?

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Speaker 3: Well, that would mean that you disagree with an eighteen

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Speaker 3: month investigation, fifteen thousand documents, hours of witness testimony that

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Speaker 3: shows the misconduct and shows the deceit.

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately that happened. We have a system in place to

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Speaker 4: try and.

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Speaker 3: Make sure good decisions occur, and this is across a

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Speaker 3: whole range of things in life and government. But we've

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Speaker 3: also got systems in place to make sure if that

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Speaker 3: ever does happen, that it's caught. And that's what's happened

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Speaker 3: here in the i CAAC to make sure it could

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Speaker 3: catch and find behavior like this.

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Speaker 1: So if that is the case, why not release the

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Speaker 1: cabinet documents so people understand exactly why this decision was

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Speaker 1: made and the information behind it.

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Speaker 4: But that's that's the ICACK investigate.

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Speaker 1: But the ICAC couldn't go into the ICAC, into the

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Speaker 1: cabinet documents and into the decision the cabinet made in

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Speaker 1: terms of what happened in that cabinet meeting, could they?

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Speaker 3: I think that shows a misunderstanding of what the ICAC

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Speaker 3: report does. The iac report shows everything that occurred that

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Speaker 3: led to the information going in the cabinet room, or

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Speaker 3: that happened there was a cabinet decision, and then we

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Speaker 3: see everything that happen as a result of that decision.

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Speaker 3: The ICAC report gives you all the information that is

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Speaker 3: relevant anything.

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Speaker 1: I mean, does that demonstrate though, that ministers aren't doing

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Speaker 1: their homework? Who knows what other decisions been made where

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Speaker 1: the homework hasn't been done properly and you guys just sign.

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Speaker 2: Off on it.

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Speaker 3: No, I think this is absolutely an outlier. There were

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Speaker 3: flags on this. We saw the flags when Jtech's got

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Speaker 3: the tender. We tried intervene at that point in time,

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Speaker 3: so this obviously had concerns. I sent documents myself down

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Speaker 3: to the i CAC on this when I saw some

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Speaker 3: of the outcomes of the Freedom Information search from a

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Speaker 3: journalist a different, different entity, so this had flags on it.

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Speaker 1: There was a soon as it had flags on it,

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Speaker 1: well before Jano Gibson at the ABC ran that story

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Speaker 1: like it had flags on it right from the get go.

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Speaker 1: I think for many of us, you know, the week

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Speaker 1: that this announcement was made, many of us were questioning

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Speaker 1: whether we were going to end up in a situation

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Speaker 1: where twelve million dollars had been announced for the Turf

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Speaker 1: Club and that the chairman's company was going to get

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Speaker 1: that tender.

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Speaker 4: And the chairman's company shouldn't have got the tender, So

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Speaker 4: all of us.

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Speaker 1: In the public could see that right from the word go.

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Speaker 1: That's why I guess plenty of us can't understand how

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Speaker 1: we've ended up in this situation where the government thought

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Speaker 1: it was a good idea to hand over twelve million

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Speaker 1: dollars to the Turf Club.

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Speaker 3: We genuinely supported the idea of expanding the Cup carnival

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Speaker 3: and creating jobs. We obviously at that point in time

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Speaker 3: had a significant body of work.

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Speaker 4: In around trying to protect territory jobs.

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Speaker 3: We're obviously coming off the back of the Impacts construction cliff,

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Speaker 3: so different serf circumstances now where the economy is currently positioned.

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Speaker 3: But at that point in time, we were very interested

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Speaker 3: in investing in direct short term construction jobs and that

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Speaker 3: would hopefully have a long term economic impact, which the

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Speaker 3: grandstand would do. We felt there been a felt thought

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Speaker 3: there'd been a twelve month process where it's been worked

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Speaker 3: on extensively. It turns out, and the KAC report goes

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Speaker 3: into this in great detail, that there essentially being a

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Speaker 3: bit of misconduct and deceit that it occurred and that

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Speaker 3: is a result of ministers having a stand aside. Were

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Speaker 3: now fixed that so the ministers do not stand aside

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Speaker 3: during market le proposal processes.

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Speaker 2: Would you still do this again?

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Speaker 1: Would you still give the Darwin Turf Club that twelve

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Speaker 1: million dollar grant?

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Speaker 3: No, We've got like CAAC report that I think shows

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Speaker 3: that it was a decision made off bad information.

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Speaker 1: Now, I do know that the day that this report

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Speaker 1: was handed down, you said the government was planning to

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Speaker 1: take civil action against any private entity or individual who

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Speaker 1: may have benefited from the grant on the basis of

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Speaker 1: undisclosed conflicts of interest or misconduct.

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Speaker 2: Where's that civil action at?

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Speaker 4: So that's with partner Attorney, Journal and Justice.

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Speaker 3: They're working through how they best go about that that

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Speaker 3: will happen, but that won't.

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Speaker 4: Be a quick body body of work.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what is what's the current situation or what do

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Speaker 1: you think is going to happen with the Darwin Cup

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Speaker 1: Carnival this year? Are you concerned that, given the current situation,

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Speaker 1: it may not happen in the same way that it

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Speaker 1: usually would.

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Speaker 3: I'm very comfortable in the CEO and the staff that

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Speaker 3: are out there. Obviously we can provide them support that

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Speaker 3: they need to make sure the carnival doesn't fall over.

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Speaker 3: That no requests come in for that kind of support,

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Speaker 3: but if they need some assistance. I believe that the

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Speaker 3: carnival is important. I believe that the carnival drives a

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Speaker 3: lot of economic investment and growth through the territory. Is

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Speaker 3: great adversement for the territory. I don't want to put

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Speaker 3: the carnival at risk. I don't think we are putting

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Speaker 3: the carnival at risk with the actions that we're taking

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Speaker 3: asking the daal And Turf Club board to resign. But

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Speaker 3: we're very clear to the CEO of the Turf Club

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Speaker 3: out there that if they need support to make sure

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Speaker 3: the carnival doesn't fall over.

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Speaker 4: Will open.

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Speaker 2: Are you going to go? No, You're not going to go.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: So even despite the board, you know, despite basically the

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Speaker 1: board now moving to the side, as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: there is going to be a general meeting for them

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Speaker 1: to elect new board members. So despite everything that's happened,

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Speaker 1: you won't be attending the Darwin Cup Carnival.

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Speaker 3: Right now as it stands, and it's in my electorate.

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Speaker 3: I support, I support the carnival, but I can't go.

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Speaker 3: I'm extremely unhappy with this series of events. I'm very

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Speaker 3: angry about it all and I won't be going to

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Speaker 3: the Cup Carnival this year.

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Speaker 4: It's not the horse's fault.

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Speaker 3: I get that, it's not the fault of the people

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Speaker 3: who are going to go the carnival have a great time,

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Speaker 3: but I personally can't stomach the.

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Speaker 4: Carnival this year.

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Speaker 2: Who are you angry at?

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Speaker 4: The whole thing? The whole the whole thing? All right?

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask some more questions about the

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Speaker 1: ikak because this morning the Northern Territory News is reporting

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Speaker 1: that the Eye Caak is set to be referred to

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Speaker 1: the Privileges Committee following allegations Commissioner Ken Fleming misled the.

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Speaker 2: Budd estimates last month.

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Speaker 1: Is the former IKAC commissioner now set to be referred

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Speaker 1: to privileges?

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Speaker 3: I think I need you put some clarifying comments around

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Speaker 3: this because the article today didn't have had the full

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Speaker 3: quote from me. It's about seeing the entire matter m

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Speaker 3: to the Privileges Committee. So we had obviously evidence testimony

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Speaker 3: from Ken Flemming and it's the former ICAK at the

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Speaker 3: time now former IKAK and when then we had evident

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Speaker 3: witness testimony from mister Lawrence representing witness Bose. Those two

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Speaker 3: evidence testimonies conflict. So essentially who's misled the house? What

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Speaker 3: is the misleading? Is it the miss speaking? What's the issue?

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Speaker 3: So obviously something's happened here. So we're referred to conflicting

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Speaker 3: stories off to the privilege Well we haven't referred We

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Speaker 3: can't can't do that to August, but we'll seek to

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Speaker 3: refer the matter to Privileges Committee for the Privilege Committee

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Speaker 3: have a look.

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Speaker 2: At so the matter will be referred. Not so much

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Speaker 2: the ICA commissioner.

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Speaker 3: Well he's part of the matter, so he's within that.

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Speaker 3: But I just want to be it's not like we're

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Speaker 3: targeting the former i CAAC it's it's the whole thing.

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Speaker 4: What's happened here?

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Speaker 3: Two witnesses have given evidence those those stories conflict what

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Speaker 3: what's actually happening here. Misleading the house is not a

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Speaker 3: good thing that we can't support. Misleading the house has

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Speaker 3: that occurred by either party? Is the case of misspeaking?

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Speaker 3: Is it saying that needs to be clarified? What's actually

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Speaker 3: gone down here? And it's obviously Ken Fleming's part of that,

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Speaker 3: But I'm not We're not targeting the former i CAACK.

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Speaker 3: I want to be very careful here. I don't believe.

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Speaker 3: I believe politicians have to be extremely careful in how

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Speaker 3: they approach the IQAQ, inter bening the IQAC, engage the IAC.

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Speaker 3: The IQAQ has a critical job in scrutinizing us. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to create any precedent that allow us for

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Speaker 3: the targeting O the IIC.

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Speaker 1: What are you hoping then that this referral to the

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Speaker 1: privileges will do.

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Speaker 3: Work it out? I don't know if someone mislad the

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Speaker 3: house or not. And then if they did mislead the house,

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Speaker 3: how do we clean that up? And what do we

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Speaker 3: do about it? So there is a bit, there is

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Speaker 3: a bit to this we have two people come and

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Speaker 3: give evidence, collecting evidence to the Estimates Committee. I also

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Speaker 3: don't think this is the this is the forum where

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Speaker 3: we should allow this kind of behavior by different parties

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Speaker 3: where they just you know, essentially Ken spoke, then witness

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Speaker 3: Beek got right a reply which conflicted with Ken. Technically

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Speaker 3: does that can then get right of reply to witness

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Speaker 3: B And do we have this tennis court match going

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Speaker 3: on in Parliament? It's not where we want to be.

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Speaker 3: I think this matter needs to be essentially full stopped.

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Speaker 3: What's gone on here and how.

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Speaker 4: Do we fix it?

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Speaker 1: There is There are so many messages coming through this morning,

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Speaker 1: but I'm keen to, you know, to ask you a

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Speaker 1: couple more questions about this. There is a lot to

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Speaker 1: take in with this story and also the report in

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Speaker 1: the paper this morning that reporter Jason Walls was actually

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Speaker 1: cooled before the IKAK more than a year ago, pushing

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Speaker 1: for him to reveal the source of a story. It's

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Speaker 1: something that we as journalists would never do. Are you

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Speaker 1: concerned about the framework in which the IKAK is operating

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Speaker 1: and some of the concerns which are being raised around

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Speaker 1: reported practices?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so let me let me go back maybe to

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Speaker 3: a broader principal statement. First, so journalists have a very

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Speaker 3: important job to do. They have the right to do

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Speaker 3: that job, and they have to be protected in the

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Speaker 3: doing of their job, noticiables of me that at all.

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Speaker 3: And so the question is do they have the right

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Speaker 3: protections in the QACK Actor allow them to do that.

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Speaker 3: The IQACK also has a very important body of work

439
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Speaker 3: do right, which is to investigate corruption. That'd be our

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Speaker 3: follow coruption wherever it goes. But how do they do

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Speaker 3: that without impinging on the journalist's right to do their job.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a very important question that needs to

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Speaker 3: be asked, and I've asked Greg Shanahan, former CEO of

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Speaker 3: Department Attorney in General Justice, to include that in part

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Speaker 3: of the work he's doing at the moment.

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Speaker 4: And looking at how the IQACK Act.

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Speaker 1: Works, do you think we're at the point where there

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Speaker 1: should be a full public inquiry into the IKAK.

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Speaker 3: I think there needs to be a review of the

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Speaker 3: IKAK that that review's already fairly well into its stride,

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Speaker 3: if that makes sense, the outcomes of that technical work

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Speaker 3: from because it's a very technical thing, right, we're not

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Speaker 3: asking where they should be. It shouldn't an IRAQC. We're

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Speaker 3: looking at how some of these clauses of the IQACK

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Speaker 3: Act work. Obviously the outcomes that will then go public

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Speaker 3: pill look at that then. Obviously then we'll go through

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Speaker 3: the parliamentary process. So there will be a public section

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Speaker 3: to this work. But we're not at the policy formation

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Speaker 3: point right. We agree there should be an IC. The

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Speaker 3: question really is a technical one about are the protections

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Speaker 3: right for what the protection journalists?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: Is that worded correctly? So for me, it's a technical

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Speaker 3: review that has to have a public component.

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Speaker 1: But so are you Are you ruling out a full

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Speaker 1: public inquiry once you've had that review take place.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So what I'm saying is we're several months into

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Speaker 3: technical work. Then there'll be a public consultation section to

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Speaker 3: that technical work, and then there'll be the passage all

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Speaker 3: process through the parliament.

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Speaker 1: And you're confident that's going to go far enough? Yes,

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Speaker 1: all right, Chief Minister Michael Gunner, we are going to

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Speaker 1: have to leave it there. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: your time this morning.

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Speaker 4: Thank you