1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. Coming 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: up on today's show, Roxy Jusenko steps down from her 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: ten million dollar house giveaway. Here's Morgan is under fire 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: for interviewing Baby Reindeer's real life Martha, and journalist Antoinette 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: Latoufe breaks her silence over the inspired Unemployed break. But first, 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: what do you guys think about eating in the shower, 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: because jar Dae Tunci has sparked debate after she uploaded 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: a video of her chowing down on a burger in 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: the shower. Well, I have been known to eat in 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: the shower quite a bit, but I've never gone as 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: far as having a burger. I've only had snacks. Yeah, 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: I have been known to also eat in the shower, 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: which probably won't surprise OG listeners because we have been 15 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: slammed for using our phone in the shower. That's gross. 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever really eaten a meal, let 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: alone a chocolate in the shower. Oh, you've got to 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: try it. It's the best when you have a little 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: snack and you take it in there and you're just 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: so comfortable and warm. I do want to point out 21 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: that Jade Twincy also is eight months pregnant, so I 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: respect it even more as a fellow pregnant woman. I'm 23 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: actually thankful that she reminded me of this because I 24 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: haven't done it for so long. I can see how 25 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: it would be nice in winter. And maybe this is 26 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: something that a lot of mums do because it's probably 27 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: the only time they get on their own. The worst 28 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: thing is when you get caught out and you've left 29 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: a wrapper in the shower and you just look like 30 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: it absolutely pig to your part. I think I like 31 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: when I have a shower at night time. Usually it's 32 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: an everything shower where I'm scrubbing off tan or I'm 33 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: shaving my legs so and I'm usually on my phone 34 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: as well, so I don't have an extra hand to 35 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: hold food. I can't let this get too out of hand. 36 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: I feel like your partner, Amy is someone who could 37 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: progress to eating in the shower because I don't mean 38 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: to call you out. Often when I go in your 39 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: bathroom there are empty soda water bottles and also beer bottles. 40 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: I think Dale does love a shower beer now and 41 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: then it is getting a little bit embarrassing, especially when 42 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: I've left my chocolate wrapper and there's also beer cans 43 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: in there. 44 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: I had CAFC for dinner last night, and I feel good. 45 00:01:58,680 --> 00:01:59,639 Speaker 1: I feel good that I've. 46 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: Held my head. 47 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: Hi, I was backed into a corner. My name is 48 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: all over. 49 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: This money can be made again by me. 50 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: Roxy Jasenko has announced she's stepping away from the controversial 51 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: ten million dollar house giveaway she was the face of. 52 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: Now before we get into the recent drama, Kay, can 53 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: you tell us more about this competition? Well, Roxy launched 54 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: the promotion called Roxy's boot Camps, in a wave of 55 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: publicity on March eighth. She was absolutely everywhere promoting this competition, 56 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: which I'm sure she heavily regrets. Now so, she appeared 57 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: on the Kyle and Jackie Oh Show and told the 58 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: host that she was giving away a ten million dollar home. 59 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: She also did an interview with Sunrise where she said, 60 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: you need to incentivize people to study, and what better 61 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: way than a ten million dollar house, a rolex or 62 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: a burken bag. Now amongst the media attention, Domain ran 63 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: with the headline Roxy Jasenko is giving away a ten 64 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: million dollar Mediterranean style waterfront pad. This competition was much 65 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: more complicated than your average home lottery, so to you 66 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: had to sign up to the course. Prices ranged from 67 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: twenty nine dollars for one month's access to the course 68 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: and one entry into the competition to a four hundred 69 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: and ninety nine dollar subscription which provided you then with 70 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,399 Speaker 1: five hundred entries. The main prize promoted was a ten 71 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: million dollar home located in Cronulla, and the other prizes 72 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: included a Rolex watch and a Burken bag, both valued 73 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: at twenty thousand dollars. This is such a huge incentive 74 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: to enter. It's not every day you see a ten 75 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: million dollar house up for grabs, and that is why 76 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: over seven thousand people signed up for Roxy's course. A 77 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: big part of the issue is, though, that media reports 78 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: didn't clearly state entrance only had a chance of winning 79 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: the major prize. So the first red flag appeared during 80 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: a Sunrise interview when Roxy deflected from answering the exact 81 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: chances of winning the ten million dollar house. So this 82 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: led publication Criche to dig into the terms and conditions, 83 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: and it turned out the winning prize wasn't actually the house, 84 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: but instead entry into another game of chance for the home. 85 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: So In the secondary competition, in order to win the home, 86 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: the entrant had to select two winning envelopes out of 87 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty available to win the house. So 88 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: the odds of going on to pick the right envelope 89 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: alone was one in sixty two thousand, two hundred and fifty. Now, 90 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: Kraiki ended up contacting Roxy about the low odds, and 91 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: she responded saying, there is a chance, and that is 92 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: how we are communicating the offer and always have been. 93 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: We are offering someone the chance to play to win 94 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: the property and guaranteed consolation prizes if it is not 95 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: one via the method. Now, the prizes that Roxy is 96 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: referring to is the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars 97 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: cash and also the Rolex and Burken Bag. So essentially 98 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: this competition was committed to giving away those three prizes, 99 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: and then it seems like it was very unlikely to 100 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: actually go on to win the ten million dollar house. 101 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: And as for this ten million dollar home, it has 102 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: been revealed that it didn't even belong to Roxy, but 103 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: instead it belonged to her business partner Yo of Tills 104 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: and his associate Kasman Aloui. And according to the Sunday Telegraph. 105 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: It was actually purchased in twenty twenty for three point 106 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: four million dollars after it failed to sell at auction, 107 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: but it was enlisted again late last year for ten million, 108 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: but also didn't sell. Now The Daily Telegraph is also 109 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: reporting that local Cronulla real estate agents have expressed doubts 110 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: that the house would even reach the ten million dollar 111 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: asking price. Now. On Friday night, Roxy did share an 112 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: eight minute video announcing she was stepping down as director 113 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: from Roxy's boot camps. The backstory is very interesting because 114 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: she revealed that she had agreed to run the competition 115 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: after being approached by a stranger who direct messaged her 116 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: with the idea. She said, she went on to form 117 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: a partnership with two people she said she didn't know. 118 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: Did this shock anyone else? Well, particularly because Roxy does 119 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: position herself as being a very savvy business woman and 120 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: well connected. Yeah, Well, it didn't take long for her 121 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: to regret her decision, because she claims three days after 122 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: the emotion commenced that she felt really uncomfortable and she 123 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: actually suggested to her new business partners that they refund 124 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: all of the purchases. And she alleged that her request 125 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: was rejected and that the promotion continued. 126 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: Now. 127 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: The pr message was very clear in this video. I 128 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: actually laughed watching it because she said the same thing 129 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: over and over again. So she wanted her audience to 130 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 1: know that she has done everything within her power to 131 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: ensure that the three prizes are given to the winners. Now, 132 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: she claims, after discovering the company bank accounts didn't have 133 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: funds to cover the two hundred and fifty thousand dollar prize, 134 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: that she tried to chip in the remaining twenty k 135 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: that was missing. Now. She said she would do so 136 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: if the money was put into a trust to protect it. Now, 137 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: she said that that request was rejected and then she 138 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: was told that she had to stand down as a 139 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: director and she is now just a shareholder in the company. 140 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: She also confirmed that she no longer has access to 141 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: that bank account, so she can't guarantee that the two 142 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollar parries will be paid. She did, however, 143 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: say that she is holding the burken bag and the 144 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: role AT's hostage. She also claimed that she's out of 145 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: pocket three hundred and fifty thousand dollars now. On Saturday, 146 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: Roxy did a follow up video confirming that she would 147 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: be personally refunding all seven thousand plus customers who purchased 148 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: a package from Roxy's boot camp. She said the course 149 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: would also remain available to everyone who received a refund. Again, 150 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: in this video, it was so clear that she was 151 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: really sticking to the PR messaging. So she said so 152 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: many times that she will be personally fitting the bill 153 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: that the money is coming from her. I mean, obviously, 154 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,559 Speaker 1: if you are going to be paying that amount of money, 155 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: your people to know that's from you. Well, there is 156 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: a rule when you are communicating with people that you 157 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: actually do have to reiterate those points over and over 158 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: again for people to actually buy in and understand it. 159 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: But it's not surprising that she has because how dirty 160 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: would you bet your name is attached to this? This 161 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: isn't a good look for her, oh, and a terrible look, 162 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: and the fact that, I mean she has come out 163 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: and said, look, this doesn't look good for me. My 164 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 1: face is all over it. I did find her PR 165 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: strategy around it very interesting because she is known as 166 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: being a very glamorous PR queen, but she chose to 167 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: film the video with no makeup on, in her pajamas, 168 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: with her hair slipped back. That was a very intentional move. 169 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 1: She was clearly trying to create sympathy for herself. She said, 170 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: my hands are tired, I am exhausted, I feel bullied, 171 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: I feel distressed, and I'm embarrassed. It is a clever 172 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: move because it is in stark contrast to how she 173 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: was portrayed in the advertisements for this ten million dollar giveaway. 174 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: She was obviously very glamed up. It really humanized her 175 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: as well. I fell and if I'm someone who has 176 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: purchased one of these tickets and I'm sort of sitting 177 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: at home thinking what the fuck is going on? I 178 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: think one, Okay, she's clearly jumped on her social media 179 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: as soon as she could to let me know the messaging. 180 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: And also if she's sitting on there with a hair 181 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: all done, in glamorous clothes, expensive jewelry, I'm thinking, oh, 182 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: you've clearly run away with the peat. And it also 183 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: looks like it's been pre planned, whereas this looks like 184 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: she's just jumped on and she's been very emotive and 185 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: wanting to just as you said, instantly get on there 186 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: to update people. Yeah, there was definitely a sense of 187 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: urgency to this. I also found it interesting that a 188 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: month's providing the business details, she repeatedly spoke about her 189 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: weight and how it had been impacted by the stress 190 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: of the promotion. Let's writ to some of what she 191 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: said regarding this. 192 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: The course of the last two months, which to be 193 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: really honest with you, feels like two and a half 194 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:34,239 Speaker 2: years for me, Um, it's been nothing short of distressing, stressful. 195 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 2: I am forty nine kilos today alone. I have fainted twice, 196 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 2: things that have never happened to me. And I have 197 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: had many businesses. I've had many ups and downs, and 198 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: I've powered through each and every one of them. 199 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: In the second video, she followed up by telling her 200 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: audience not to worry because she had eaten KFC tonight. 201 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: Before I get what she was trying to do, she 202 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: was trying to show that obviously, this competition is taken 203 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: an emotional toll on her and it's causing her a 204 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: lot of stress. But I just feel so uncomfortable with 205 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: her constantly putting out there how much she weighs. I 206 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: think it's quite irrelevant. You can just say I'm very 207 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: stressed and I've lost weight. You don't have to say 208 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: how much weight, but also using it as a method 209 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: to gunner sympathy. When she has explicitly spoken on an 210 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: Instagram story about how she works out five times a week, 211 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: she was caught up in controversy because she said she 212 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: only ate two boiled eggs and a Greek salad for dinner. 213 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: She's spoken a lot about how she exercises five times 214 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: a week. Her weight loss seems quite intentional, particularly because 215 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: she also spoke about how she nearly died from taking 216 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: a zepic, So it was strange to me that she 217 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: was then blaming this weight loss on the stress of 218 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: this competition. I wonder how many people they actually expected 219 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: to sign up for this course, because it's come out 220 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: that they've had seven thousand entries. If they all of 221 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: those seven thousand people actually signed up to the four 222 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: hundred ninety nine dollars subscription, that adds up to around 223 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: three point four million dollars, it's obviously not an enough 224 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: to even pay for the house. Yeah, and it's very 225 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: unlikely that everyone is going to sign up to the 226 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: top package. 227 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 2: Now. 228 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: Roxy's former business partner, Joseph Tills, spoke to The Sunday 229 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: Telegraph and he confirmed that the competition will still go 230 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: ahead without Roxy, so Yosef refuted Roxy's claims and said 231 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: that the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars were safely 232 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: sitting in the company's bank account, and he said that 233 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: he only removed Roxy from the account after she shared 234 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: the Instagram video on Friday night. Joseph claims that Roxy 235 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: was also set to take fifty percent of the shareholding, 236 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: while he and his other business partner would take twenty 237 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: five percent each. He then went on to claim that 238 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: Roxy resigned from the company in mid April, which resulted 239 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: in him being locked out of the company accounts and 240 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: the bank account being frozen. He also said he explored 241 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: legal proceedings, but they were averted when he was granted 242 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: access to the accounts on condition that Roxy was permitted 243 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: to exit the business. Now it just seems like an 244 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: absolute shit show. So there were attempts made to repair 245 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: this relationship, and Joseph said that it became irreparable on 246 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: May first. I think the most interesting part of his 247 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: claim is that he said he and his business partner 248 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: were actually the ones that wanted to originally resign from 249 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: this business, and he claims that Roxy got wind of 250 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: vis so that is why she then pulled the plug 251 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: and announced publicly that she was stepping down as director. 252 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: So it sounds like they're all trying to jump from 253 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: this sinking ship. If I had purchased one of these tickets, 254 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: that would not fill me with much confidence that I'm 255 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: getting money. I question what these guys are saying because 256 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: they have come to Roxy with this concept they are 257 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: the brains behind this competition and she is merely the 258 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: face of it. Well, I wouldn't say merely the face, 259 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: because she also agreed to go ahead with it. These 260 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: guys actually claim that they approached Roxy and said that 261 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: they wanted a celebrity from the Ministry of Talent, which 262 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: is a talent agency. She managed the position, and she said, no, 263 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: I've actually got the reach, that is what they allege. 264 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: I am so interested to see what happens when this 265 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: competition is actually drawn, because Roxy said that she's refunding everyone. 266 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: So doesn't that defunct the whole competition? Like, how can 267 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: it still go ahead? 268 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 3: I've got a photographic memory. I was top of the 269 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: skill apart from the science. What grade did you get 270 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 3: all right? Grads? I mean, not top of the or anything. 271 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 3: When you do a degree, you get it. You're asking 272 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 3: me what mace I got for thirteen subjects. 273 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: I can't remember. Controversial UK broadcaster Piers Morgan is under 274 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: fire for his face to face interview with the so 275 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: called real life Marfa, who allegedly inspired the hit Netflix 276 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: show Baby Reindeer. 277 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: Now. 278 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: Critics are questioning the ethics of paying and interviewing an 279 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: alleged stalker, who the show's creator, Richard Gadd, claims is 280 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: mentally ill. Sophie, You, like the rest of the world, 281 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: has been captivated by this show. Yeah, this show has 282 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: gripped me in a way that other shows haven't for 283 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: quite some time. And I think it's down to the 284 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: fact that it has been promoted as a true story. 285 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: This isn't just based off a true story or inspired 286 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: by real life events. Netflix has boldly said that this 287 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: is a true story and the show is absolutely fascinating. 288 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: It is written by Richard Gadd, who also plays himself 289 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: on the show. See when I was watching her, I 290 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: didn't realize and that adds a whole extra dimension to 291 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: it because the show is just so confronting and raw. Yeah, 292 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: it does explore how he became the point of obsession 293 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: for a serial stalker called Martha whilst he was trying 294 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: to make it as a comedian, and I think the 295 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: fact that he plays himself in the show makes it 296 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: even more powerful. What is pretty remarkable about this show 297 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: is that it has turned its audience into armchair detectives. 298 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: So after watching this show, fans have been trying to 299 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: hunt down the real life Martha and it was actually 300 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: relatively easy for them to find her because on the 301 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: show they used real messages and emails that Richard says 302 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: that the stalker sent him. And the interesting thing about 303 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: the messages is they were written in such a specific 304 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: way there were a lot of consistent ramatical and spelling errors. Yeah, 305 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: and fans were able to cross reference the messages on 306 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: social media to the ones on the show, and it 307 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: wasn't long before TikTok users revealed who Martha was and 308 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: they created all of these videos online which generated a 309 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: lot of engagement and a lot of attention. Now, the 310 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: real life Martha was revealed to be a fifty eight 311 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: year old Scottish woman called Fiona Harvey, and not long 312 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: after her identity was revealed, online journalist Piers Morgan was 313 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: promoting that he had a world exclusive TV interview with her, 314 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: so he wrote on ex world exclusive, the real life 315 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: Martha from Baby Reindeer breaks cover and gives me the 316 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: first TV interview about the smash hit Netflix show Fiona 317 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: Harvey wants to have her say and set the record straight. 318 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: Is she a psychostalker? I love that he finished with 319 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: that line, because clearly the interview was already in the can. 320 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: They would have had to do so much persuading to 321 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: get her on the show. It's pretty incredible when you 322 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: think a YouTube show actually beat out these huge networks 323 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: to get this interview. Well, I think that that speaks 324 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: more broadly about the entertainment industry though, because TV is dead. 325 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: I mean Piers Morgan, he has two million followers or 326 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: two million subscribers on his YouTube channel. In the space 327 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: of three days, this YouTube has had nine million views. Now, 328 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: this interview was very lengthy. It went for fifty four minutes, 329 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: and I was glued to every single second of it, 330 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: even though at times I felt uncomfortable that I was 331 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: watching it. I think that's how a lot of people 332 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: felt online. You almost felt guilty for watching it and 333 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: buying into the sensationalism of it. All. It was like 334 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: watching a car crash. You just could not look away. 335 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: And it is clear that Peers used this lengthy interview 336 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: style as a way to trip her up. I could 337 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: just sense how much the producers had tried to say 338 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: to Fiona how she and Peers were the same, because 339 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: when he asked her, oh, so, what made you choose 340 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: my show to appear on, she said that she knew 341 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: he had all been persecuted like her. There was this 342 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: connection there. However, I think once the interview went on, 343 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: it became quite apparent what side Peers was on. Yeah, 344 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: the amount of smoke they would have blown up her 345 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: ass to actually get her to agree to do the interview, 346 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: and then the tables would turned sue quickly. Now, during 347 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: this interview, Fiona did claim to have only met Richard 348 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: a few times, and she did deny sending him forty 349 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: one thousand emails and one hundred letters. Instead, she claimed 350 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: that she sent him only a handful of emails and 351 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: that he must have made up the rest himself. It's 352 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: funny because rather than denying the fact that she contacted 353 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: him via email, she just kept saying, oh, how would 354 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: someone possibly send forty one thousand emails in the space. 355 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: Of a year. 356 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I don't know if that's a good 357 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: enough defense, And then she also said, oh, I don't 358 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: think I did, and he's like, well, how do you 359 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: not know if you've sent that many emails. She also 360 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: denied that she's been convicted of stalking Richard or being 361 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: sent to prison, and also claimed to be a lawyer, 362 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: and she revealed her plans to sue both Richard and 363 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: Netflix for defamation. She did reiterate that she personally wouldn't 364 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: be suing them. She also said that her boyfriend was 365 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: a lawyer and he wouldn't be suing that she would 366 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: get a other lawyer to do so. Apparently she has 367 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: been dating this lawyer for five years now. While she 368 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: said the show was defamatory, she also claimed to have 369 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: never watched any scene of the show, and in one 370 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: notable moment during this interview, she also boasted about having 371 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: a photographic memory, but was then unable to tell peers 372 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: her law school grades. So there were just so many 373 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: moments where peers managed to trip her up and make 374 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: her look silly. This interview did her no favors whatsoever. 375 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: There were so many inconsistencies, and at some points I 376 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: felt like Peers was actually trying to help her out, 377 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: but she just didn't take the bait at all, and 378 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: some of her remarks about Richard have quickly become viral 379 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: memes on TikTok. Let's throw to one of them. 380 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 3: Leave me alone, please get a life, get a proper job. 381 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 3: I am horrified what you've done. 382 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: When I first saw these memes circulating, my first reaction 383 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: was to send them on and have a bit of 384 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: a laugh. But when you think about it, it's actually 385 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: really sad that this mentally ill woman is being taken 386 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: advantage of by a huge broadcaster and being mocked for 387 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: all of our entertainment. This is also not going to 388 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: be good for her legal case, because this will be 389 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: used as evidence against her. What I found most surprising 390 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,239 Speaker 1: was following this interview, Fiona came out and admitted that 391 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: she was paid only two hundred and fifty pounds for 392 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: this exclusive, and it turned out that she had turned 393 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: down a number of other morning shows. She said that 394 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: she felt used by Peers and that the questions were 395 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: rapid fire to try and trip her up. She also 396 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: said it was fast paced to catch me off. God, 397 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: has she not seen any other interviews by Piers Morgan 398 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: because that is just his interview style. I do wonder 399 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 1: if these morning shows didn't offer her any money, because 400 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: ethically it looks really wrong to pay an accuse stalk 401 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: her to get their side of events. Like I mean, 402 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: if this was a male stalker, a male older stalker, 403 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: I don't think that we would give them any airtime 404 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: at all, let alone pay them for their time and 405 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: their side of the story. The UK aren't really known 406 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: for their media ethics and Piers has faced a lot 407 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: of backlash from mental health campaigners and survivors of stalking 408 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: over his decision to interview Fiona. Many people have called 409 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: it irresponsible and bizarre, and I would agree with them. Yeah, 410 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: because after Baby Reindeer, Ed Richard did tell the media 411 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: that the real person who inspired Martha was very mentally unwell, 412 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,479 Speaker 1: and he also did urge fans not to try and 413 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,719 Speaker 1: find her. So it was an interesting decision for a 414 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: broadcaster to then go and spotlight this woman. 415 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 2: Well. 416 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: While he did give her a platform to share her 417 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: side of the story, Piers Morgan was always going to 418 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: interrogate her. He fired questions at her and he did 419 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: pull apart her story. Yeah, I think plenty of journalism 420 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: students could learn a lot from watching Peters's interview techniques. 421 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: While many people people are questioning the ethics over this interview, 422 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: it is clear that he pulled this interview off pretty flawlessly. 423 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: He demonstrated that he definitely has talent in interviewing people. 424 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: He gave her enough room at the start of the 425 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: interview so that she felt comfortable to share her side 426 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: of things, but then he was very clever on jumping 427 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: on all of her inconsistencies in an attempt to trip 428 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: her up and to get her to admit what she 429 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: had been accused of. While this may have been a 430 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: masterclass in interviewing, it was not in ethics, because while 431 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: Fiona may have agreed to do the interview, it's quite 432 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: clear that she probably wasn't mentally fit to actually make 433 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: that decision or fully understood the repercussions of that decision. 434 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: If the show is anything to go by, she was 435 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: portrayed as a very lonely person who didn't have a 436 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: big support group around her, and if that is the 437 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: case in real life, it means that she wouldn't have 438 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: had the support of friends of family to actually step 439 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: in and say this is a bad idea. I mean, 440 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: she did mention that she hadn't told her mum about 441 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: the interview. It's clear watching this interview that there's two 442 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: possibilities at play. The first possibility is that Fiona is 443 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: telling the truth and that Richard and Netflix have overly 444 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: exaggerated this story and her character and passed it off 445 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: as a true story. If this is the case, a 446 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: woman has been defamed and both parties have left themselves 447 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: open to legal action. I don't think that that is 448 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: the case, but that is one scenario. The other scenario 449 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: that is more feasible, in my opinion, is that Fiona 450 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: did do all of these things that she's been accused of, 451 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: and the media are parading around a mentally ill woman 452 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: for clicks and entertainment. And the worst thing is that 453 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: we're all lapping it up. Like I personally, as soon 454 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: as this interview dropped, I couldn't get enough of it. 455 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: I just could not stop watching it. It was such 456 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: compelling viewing. So I think we do have to have 457 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: a look at ourselves as well. I couldn't help but 458 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: also think that Piers Morgan has opened her up for 459 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: a counter defamation case because she kept making comments about 460 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: how Richard gadd is psychotic and mentally ill himself, and 461 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: also making derogatory comments about Netflix. Yeah, and I think 462 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: even just mental health. Aside from this, the ethics of 463 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: giving an alleged stalker the opportunity to give their side 464 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: of the story and rebut a victim's claims, I think 465 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: is just very unjustifiable. I think that gender, as I 466 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: touched on, has really come into play with this decision. 467 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: If this was a fifty eight year old man who 468 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: stalked a much younger woman, we wouldn't have opened up 469 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: the possibility to hear his side of events, and I 470 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: don't think that he would have been spotlighted in this 471 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: way in this show. Richard also made the point the 472 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: police didn't take his matter seriously due to it being 473 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: a woman who stalks him. And this is despite the 474 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: fact that in Baby Reindeer, Martha actually sexually assaulted Richard's 475 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: character on the show, So if any of that is true, 476 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: and then also an alleged sexual predator has also been platformed, 477 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: the whole thing is just uncomfortable. I don't understand how 478 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: it's even gotten to this point, and I think Netflix 479 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: are really to blame for it because they didn't have 480 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: to come out and promote this as a true story. 481 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: They could have easily said based on a true story. 482 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: They clearly have all of the receipts. I think that 483 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: it's quite clear that there's a lot of evidence to 484 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: prove that this did happen to Richard. And I just 485 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: feel so bad for Richard. You know, he's put it 486 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: very bravely, put all of his darkest moments into this 487 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: show out for the world to see it. But ethically, Sophie, 488 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: if they had said based on a true story and 489 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: people found this real Martha, then it wouldn't have such 490 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: massive repercussions for this person. I just have found this 491 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: interview to be so disrespectful to Richard, and I think 492 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: what is so scary about this is this is far 493 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,959 Speaker 1: from the end of the story. People are saying that 494 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: we are seeing Baby Reindeer two play out in real life, 495 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: and through taking part of this interview, Fiona has become 496 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: somewhat of a celebrity. In the interview, she even spoke 497 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: about getting a potential book deal where she was going 498 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: to expose her side of the story and as we speak, 499 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: she probably has a ton of reality show producers or 500 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: documentary makers who were knocking on her door offering her 501 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: money to be involved, and I don't think that she 502 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: should be able to profit on allegedly any of this 503 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: behavior that has taken place. In saying that, though, do 504 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: you think Richard could have avoided this by changing a 505 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: few things up, particularly sharing the exact messages that she 506 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: shared that were available on Twitter. I think it's a 507 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: tough one because when the show exploded in popularity, he 508 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: made a point of saying, I have tried to conceal 509 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: the real people's identities by making the character slightly different. However, 510 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: when we did meet the real life Martha, she looked 511 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: bang on to her the actor on the shows absolutely uncanny. Yeah, resemblance. 512 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: It was spot on. And also I've seen a lot 513 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: of memes floating around saying that all of the other 514 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: characters look very much like the actors as well. It's 515 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: not just in appearance though, it's the fact that they 516 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: would easily know that those tweets were available and could 517 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: be searched. But I also think why does he he 518 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: necessarily have to protect someone who made his life a 519 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: living misery and how it protects him from a defamation case. 520 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: But it's not defamat truf. It's true. There's the truth 521 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: defense there as well. Yes, I know, but he probably 522 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: doesn't want his show overshadowed by having to now go 523 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: to court and relive all of overshadowed. This is probably 524 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: the best thing for him if he's going to want 525 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: to bring out a second series, while mentally it might 526 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: be bad for him. I mean, the thing that is 527 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: a bit awkward is in the show. In one of 528 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: the last episodes, he admitted that he sort of became 529 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: obsessed with her and he couldn't let her go. So 530 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying, is this a way 531 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: for her to still be in his life. Journalist Antoinette 532 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: Latoufe has broken her silence, saying she was mortified by 533 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: the response to her involvement in the inspired unemployeds prank 534 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: last month. 535 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 2: Now. 536 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: Alongside Antoinette, high profile feminist you Miss Steins and Clementine 537 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: Ford featured at the Love Unboxed event in Sydney last month, 538 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: which was marketed as a thought provoking discussion on love 539 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: and marriage. Now, the crowd at the time didn't know 540 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: that the free Q and a style panel was part 541 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 1: of The Inspired Unemployed's prank show called Impractical Jokers. So 542 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: Jack Steele, who is one half of The Inspired Unemployed, 543 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: appeared on the panel to give the perspective of a 544 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: young male and some of his contributions to the panel 545 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: were that he thinks chicks did consent and he really 546 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: likes girl writers. Now, he was being fed these lines 547 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: because the show was a prank show, so this was 548 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: part of a punishment. The backlash was swift, and it 549 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: seemed like people were more pissed off at the feminists 550 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: that were on the panel rather than at the Inspired Unemployed. Yeah, 551 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: they definitely copped it a lot. Now, Antoinette has opened 552 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: up on her podcast, explaining that she previously had been 553 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: unable to comment about the incident as she and the 554 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: other women had signed a non disclosure agreement. That's what 555 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: a lot of people did guess at the time. She 556 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: admitted that she and the other panelists had completely misread 557 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: the situation and was mortified that the audience felt jeeps. 558 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: So she explained that producers approached her to host the event, 559 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: and she and the other hosts said that they answered 560 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: the questions posted them on the panel very seriously, so 561 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: they felt as though their audience was still getting something 562 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: from the experiment. She said that they really thought that 563 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: the joke would be on Jack and that the audience 564 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: would enjoy being annoyed at him. However, when the joke 565 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: was revealed, the producers were supposed to come up on 566 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: stage and back the women and explain what happened, but 567 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: they didn't come up on stage, and they were then 568 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: left to deal with the upset and the situation as 569 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: it unfolded. Well, Antoinette said, the great irony of it 570 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: was the three women mopping up. We apologized profusely, and 571 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: apologized repeatedly, and we listened and we heard. Then we realized, damn. 572 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: We all thought this would land differently. We honestly did 573 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: think it would land differently. It's clear they misread the 574 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: situation completely. There is a lot of backtracking going on. 575 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: Do you think it's fair to blame the producers because 576 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: I personally don't think it would have made a difference 577 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: if they came out and back them up. I think 578 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: it was a bit naive to assume that Jack was 579 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: simply going to be the butt of the joke, and 580 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: that there wouldn't be men having a laugh about feminism, 581 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: because even the fact that this was Jack's punishment to 582 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,239 Speaker 1: be put on a stage with feminists who were going 583 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: to pick him to pieces, it's clear that the feminists 584 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: were the butt of the jokes, not Jack. Maybe it 585 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: was this allure of working with the inspired unemployed because 586 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: they are extremely popular. Everything they touch seems to turn 587 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: to gold, and while they do put out edgy jokes, 588 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: people don't normally get too offended by them. They vereem lovable, 589 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: they seem untouchable. The inspired unemployed are like teflon. They 590 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: have slipped themselves out of this situation and left the 591 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: women to explain themselves, which seems to be a reflection 592 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: of what happens a lot of the time in society. 593 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to hearing when Clementine Ford comes out 594 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: and what she has to say about Well, if the 595 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: NDA has already passed, surely she would have said something 596 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: by now. I'm surprised that the NDA finishes before the 597 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: episode is aired. That's what's confused me. I'm really interested 598 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: to see this episode I think it air or yeah, well, 599 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: if it does air, we'll get more of an idea 600 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: of what's gone down. I think that is all we 601 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: have time for today. Thank you so much for joining 602 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: us for this episode. If you have enjoyed it, could 603 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: you please make sure you are subscribed on Apple Podcasts 604 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: and also Spotify. And if you are a longtime listener 605 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: of the show and really enjoy what we put out, 606 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,239 Speaker 1: we would really appreciate it if you could leave us 607 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: a five start review. If you do want to hear 608 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: more content from us, we release a subscriber episode every 609 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: Thursday with bonus content. If you're not already an Outspoken 610 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: Plus subscriber. All the details to sign up are in 611 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: our show notes. This podcast was recorded on the traditional 612 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: land of the Ghana people of the Adelaid Planes. We 613 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: pay respect to elders past and present.